ta11pau1
Full Member
You should bleed with the pistons fully retracted or else you’ll have too much fluid in the system and won’t be able to push the pistons back in fully without removing fluid.
ive always done this on my code rsc too - but on the latest hope video, he leaves them with brake pads in so when your bleeding the brake the pistons/pads are pushing out as far as the can go - i think ill just do it as ive always done with others always pushed all the way back in then bleed block to stop the pistons moving - seems general consensus from who ive spoken too and you suggest the same too
ive always done this on my code rsc too – but on the latest hope video, he leaves them with brake pads in so when your bleeding the brake the pistons/pads are pushing out as far as the can go – i think ill just do it as ive always done with others always pushed all the way back in then bleed block to stop the pistons moving – seems general consensus from who ive spoken too and you suggest the same too
See my edit, he's not actually putting pressure in the system when bleeding so the pistons don't move out. But he does push them back in before finishing.
Well I've got a pair of Tech 4's and some floating rotors on the way so I can see what all the hype is about.
I'm going to go to the top of a tall building and throw my Sram Code's into oblivion.
Two sets of Tech 4 E4s have just arrived here. Let’s see how they do.
Tech4 e4, standard pads
No squealing, wet or dry
I've got a set of the Tech 4 X2's on my Cascade. They're bloody brilliant and much nicer than a previous set of Tech 3 X2's.
I'll be fitting a set to the Solaris Max when I've got some spare cash.
My only gripe is that I preferred the feel of the Tech 3 lever. Saying that though, the Tech 4 ones aren't terrible.
I'm having a bit of drama fitting these E4's. There's barely any room for the rotor and they're rubbing like crazy.
I've retracted the pistons a few times and the excess fluid has exited the lever. I've refitted the diaphragm and top cap without adding any extra fluid. BPC is all the way out. No bubbles coming out at all.
Once you get them centered and pump the levers they don't seem to return at all. There's about 1mm movement in the pads. Can't see any daylight between the pads and disc.
Lever feel is solid and I've managed a few laps around the block but I can't stop the rubbing.
It doesn't help that I can only grab snippets of garage time in between meal times and dirty nappies.
Which floating rotors? The normal or vented.
I've got regular unvented rotors. Glad I didn't go for the wideboys!
The vented ones are just for the V4s. They fit in there fine.
Somewhere in this thread there's a link to some 3d printed tools to centralise these brakes.
For those that wondered how they work, simply slide over the disk. Photos below.
The initial centralizing is easy enough, its then faffing about getting the pistons to come out evenly is the tricky bit.
A rotor straightener tool thingy is also a good addition to getting the system even without rub.
I’m having a bit of drama fitting these E4’s
I’d like to try the Tech 4’s to see how good they are but really, those MT5’s Privateer spec’d and even put the one finger levers on, they are so good for the money (though the plastic master cylinders are not for the ham fisted they are fine for the rest of us).
@simono5 the pics arent loading
how does it work? loosen bolts, put wheel in, put the block/tool in and simply tighten bolts? or do you have to squeeze the lever whilst the bolts are loose?
@oscillatewildly assuming the same tool I have (r3pro), as exactly as you say. Loosen bolts, put wheel in, put the block/tool in over the rotor and tighten bolts. Seems to work really well.
@Rubber_Buccaneer I have both (well the MT Trail version with the short levers running 180F/160R). Both are very good and I'd happily run either. I've only had 3 rides on the Tech4s (200F/180R) but they replaced Tech3s. The improvements are noticeable and they are more powerful than the MT Trails (as you'd hope with bigger rotors). The MT Trails seemed to have more power than the old Tech3s despite the smaller rotors. Both damn good brakes.
Anyone experiencing brake 'warbling' with Tech4 E4 brakes?
Mine were fine for the first few rides but after one particularly long and bumpy descent they now now make a noise like a turkey gobble at anything above walking pace.
I have realigned the calipers, reset the pistons but the noise persists.
Anyone experiencing brake ‘warbling’ with Tech4 E4 brakes?
Mine were fine for the first few rides but after one particularly long and bumpy descent they now now make a noise like a turkey gobble at anything above walking pace.
I have realigned the calipers, reset the pistons but the noise persists
Not specificially. But i had an interesting one the other day.
I've got SLXs on the Slayer... they're silent....
I swapped to Guides, instant warble... (good term by the way)..
The disk/wheel was still the same, so it's got to be caliper/pad related IMO.
I am wondering if it pad/caliper related but would have expected more reports of the problem if that was the case.
Going to swap from green (sintered) to red (organic) pads for the next ride and see if that makes any difference.
fathomer
Full Member
@oscillatewildly assuming the same tool I have (r3pro), as exactly as you say. Loosen bolts, put wheel in, put the block/tool in over the rotor and tighten bolts. Seems to work really well.
thanks mate - ordered! sounds ideal, takes away the guess work and faff, and as long as pads are coming out the same should be pretty accurate
do you have to pump the lever whilst this block is in? or not do a thing and just tighten the bolts?
Nope, no pumping as the block sits in the caliper really snug.
cool thanks sam! thats ace this will help loads for me having constantly remove/install wheels every ride
Apols that the above image didn't work, re-hosted below and hopefully now OK.
That'll work great as an alignment tool, not as a brake block when moving the bike with the wheels off though as you'd need to retract the pistons and reset them every time you used it.
Just don't squeeze the brake lever when you've got the front wheel off.
Must admit this thread and a few of the other recent ones are swaying me towards a set of Hopes for the Slayer.
I've tried the V4s a couple of times on the boys bike and really like them. Whether i like them enough at the moment to lob in £250+ for a set i don't know 😀 But they're really nice.
I do need to look into bleed kits and process though
does anyone know if the wolftooth light action remote (hope fitting) works on the new tech 4 e4? im assuming the hope fitting made by wolftooth was for the tech 3 e4 (last version) but would assume its the same? any ideas? or any other brands out there that make a direct mount for the wolftooth remote?
It does not. Had to swap to a bar mount for mine.
I’m going to go to the top of a tall building and throw my Sram Code’s into oblivion.
@sharkattack - if you are throwing the Codes away, let me know...I'll try and get to where they fall so I can use them!
does anyone know if the wolftooth light action remote (hope fitting) works on the new tech 4 e4? im assuming the hope fitting made by wolftooth was for the tech 3 e4 (last version) but would assume its the same? any ideas? or any other brands out there that make a direct mount for the wolftooth remote?
I contacted WT a few weeks ago and its in the planning but a date not committed. I got the bar mount as per nixie's point.
Had to use the bar mount with my Wolftooth light action remote and the Tech 4 levers. It's a good fit though and puts the lever in the perfect position for me. I don't think I'll bother changing to an integrated mount even if WT do produce one.
@<span class="bbp-author-name">oscillatewildly</span> It bugged me to start with but really its not that big a deal and I no longer notice. I won't be changing it if/when there is a direct mount available.
thats interesting then - i know what you mean sometimes you are limited with movement/positioning with the direct mount options, at least with a bar mount you can pretty much find your perfect setup
EDIT : jesus just seen the price of them! i think i paid about 40 quid for mine a few years ago ha!
Might be a problem with comparability given theres so many different companies doing remotes, and I dont know if ,given T4 is a new lever type, and also its a hinged clamp, rather than the 2 piece.
Could find its only Sram or Shimano they're compatible with, or rather one thats more often used- fox,RS etc. Boutique brands might not as yet have that option.
Yeah the full remote price is crazy now. Though at least you can buy all the parts so only need the clamp itself.
Going to swap from green (sintered) to red (organic) pads for the next ride and see if that makes any difference.
Noise is not as bad but it's still there!
Going to remove the calipers tomorrow, check the frame and fork mounts are clean and flat, check the rotor bolts are all tight and then refit and align the calipers.
Noise is not as bad but it’s still there!
Red pads in my Tech4 V4's are pretty much silent even in the wet.
Going to swap from green (sintered) to red (organic) pads
Green pads are organic not sintered.
Anyone experience of the purple ?.
Yeah I’ve got the purple ebike pads in my tech 3 V4’s on my hello dave…..so basically an ebike in weight, just missing the motor! I had been through the stock pads and sintered, the purples were supplied along with the sintered so I’ve used all 3, no complaints in the wet or dry, plenty of power.
I’ve got the tech 4 V4’s on the Privateer and whatever pads come fitted as standard to those brakes (race I think) have also been great, silent in the dry and wet.
@dove1 - my srams used to turkey gobble, but not had that on the e4 so far, just the weird whistle/buzz type noise which i actually like
however, my rear brake squeals in the wet until its dried off/heated up, tried brand new set of red pads, different rotor, calipers properly aligned, even if i get splashes of water off the trails (and its not raining) it does it, no idea why as the front is absolutely silent whether its wet or dry, that has never made a squeal once! (ive even swapped the pads/rotors around front to back to test) and it still squeals with silent front pads/rotor on, so something a bit odd with the caliper or frame i guess....but its nitpicking as the rear is also silent in the dry, and tbf it only squeals for a short while until i use it a bit
as for the pad alignment tool from r3pro that @simono5 is GENIUS! highly recommended, it makes aligning the pads much much easier knowing the caliper is in the correct place - i never usually do it this way and just mess with the caliper bolts but this has made me do it the correct way, it definitely improves braking feel and hopefully helps wear the pads more evenly - its also great as i always remove the wheels for car every ride/storage so sometimes catch the pads as im constantly inserting the wheel, generally means now the calipers always in the correct place as its tightened down and all i have to do is reset/manipulate the pads if i do catch them - clever simple little thing
Yeah I’ve got the purple ebike pads in my tech 3 V4’s on my hello dave…..so basically an ebike in weight, just missing the motor! I had been through the stock pads and sintered, the purples were supplied along with the sintered so I’ve used all 3, no complaints in the wet or dry, plenty of power.
Cheers for that.
When I send mine to hope for the upgraded pistons they give you new pads, so specifying purple would be an upgrade and I can keep the red ones for spares.
Ta again 🙂
I'll be joining the Tech4 V4 club next week. Going for 200mm * 2.3 rotors front and rear on a 170/150 AM9. Which pads would be recommended for lakes riding this time of year?
Same pads front and rear, or something harder wearing on the rear to allow for the inevitable brake dragging long steep descents can bring?
Anyone able to let me know what Torx size the reservoir cap bolts are please? Just fitted and bled my new T4E4s but ended up using a bit from my electric screwdriver as didn’t have a Torx key the right size but can’t make out the size on it to make sure I buy the right size to stick in my bleed kit.
@breadcrumb we sell loads of pads to Lakes riders from our factory, they're always on the greens. They don't last as well standard but they're the choice it seems.
Anyone able to let me know what Torx size the reservoir cap bolts are please?
T10 I think.
Thanks, thought it might be.
Thanks @benpinnick
I've trying out green front and purple rear. Seems to work well on the shakedown ride. I'll see what it like on big descents soon hopefully.
Something good happened to my Tech 4 E4's today. It was like they suddenly came online half way through a ride.
I tried to bed them in on the road on some very steep hills behind my house and they felt alright. They were also adequate last week on a big Peak bridelway mission but I guess I wasn't really testing them.
Today was my first day of really yanking on them on the steeps of Wharncliffe and they completely changed over the course of the day. They feel like they're making mega power now for much less effort. This is with red pads in nice dry conditions. They feel great now.
It's a shame they were just bedding in as my legs were dying. I can't wait to get back out.
I've cracked and ordered a set of Tech4 V4 to probably replace my Trickstuff Direttissimas (here was me trying to convince myself not to).
I've ordered black with silver reservoir caps but does anyone want to swap their silver lever blades for my black lever blades?
Today was my first day of really yanking on them on the steeps of Wharncliffe and they completely changed over the course of the day. They feel like they’re making mega power now for much less effort. This is with red pads in nice dry conditions. They feel great now.
Sounds like they weren't properly bedded in, the red pads do need to get nice and hot to bed them in. Any reason you're not using the green pads? Almost no bedding in required, and mega power at the sacrifice of a bit worse wear.
Yeah they definitely weren't bedded in properly because when they were it was immediately obvious.
I just thought that because it's still 'winter' I'd save the green pads for warmer, dryer weather. I didn't expect to be riding in such nice conditions in February. I'm sure we'll get some foulness before too long.
I'm up north next weekend for family stuff so I might try for a few hours at Hamsterley otherwise it'll be 2 weeks between sessions and I've fully got the riding bug back.
appltn
I’ve cracked and ordered a set of Tech4 V4 to probably replace my Trickstuff Direttissimas
Interested to hear how they compare to trickstuff.
“Sounds like they weren’t properly bedded in”
It amazes me how big a difference this makes - I tend to ride around the roads dragging the brakes for a while and then do lots of stops with more brake dragging in between. Has to be in the dry so they get hot enough. Also, when ridden in the wet without being bedded in, they seem to get worn out in hardly any miles.
Interested to hear how they compare to trickstuff.
Respective bikes should all be rideable this weekend, and I’m relatively injury free so will give them all a semi proper go.
I’ve ordered black with silver reservoir caps but does anyone want to swap their silver lever blades for my black lever blades?
I can sell you some unused ones as I’ve already swapped to black? £20?
I can sell you some unused ones as I’ve already swapped to black? £20?
Yes please. I’ll dm you.
Interested to hear how they compare to trickstuff.
Me too! Unfortunately I’m nursing a broken hand since this time last week so it’ll be another 3-4 weeks before I’m able to try them 😕
Tried my mates Tech4 V4's yesterday on their maiden voyage, ..with 220mm rotors and the green pads they were too grabby....even with the red organic the stopping power is face melting. As a serial panic braker I'd have to go down to 200mm rotors or I would die.
Has anyone actually tried both the new Tech4 E4 Vs the V4? ...I might be considering these myself now..
Tried my mates Tech4 V4’s yesterday on their maiden voyage, ..with 220mm rotors and the green pads they were too grabby….even with the red organic the stopping power is face melting. As a serial panic braker I’d have to go down to 200mm rotors or I would die.
I've got 220/203mm rotors with the green pads on tech 4 v4's, had tech 3 v4's on 203/180mm rotors on the last bike.
I don't find them too grabby at all, just tons and tons of face melting power, on top of oodles of lovely modulation.
You'd get used to them after a few rides. My only complaint with the tech 3 v4 was that to get to the power they needed a decently strong pull, the tech 4 have the power more easily accessible.
E4 Vs V4, apparently due to the increased piston size the v4 will have a softer lever feel, but a bit more power.
The leaking pistons issue, is this something Hope are aware of?
I think my front has this - the last 2 rides the front brake has been honking like a flock of geese until it got a bit of temperature into it, rear is completely silent.
Checking this morning after a night ride yesterday, these are the pads - definite wetness at the top of one of them :
https://flic.kr/p/2oih9zh
One side of the rotor Vs the other:
https://flic.kr/p/2oiisra
https://flic.kr/p/2oih9yF
And the inside of the caliper on the corresponding side, all dry:
https://flic.kr/p/2oiisrf
The only thing I've put on the bike since it was built was some muck-off protect and shine and the closest that got to the front brakes was on the fork stanchions and definitely nothing on the brakes.
They're about 200km old.
Easy replacement by Hope, or do I need to go back to where I bought them?
Ok, yep I 100% have a bit of leakage from one of the pistons. The wonders of 4k mobile phone video!
One of my riding buddies had to warranty one of his Tech 4s
Yeah I've emailed Hope, got a returns form so will get them to sort it out.
Brake removed and cleaned up and back in the box ready to go back to Hope.
I extended and pushed back the pistons to make sure the seal hadn't got unseated or something like that but any decent pressure on the brake and you can see the fluid just bubbling and starting to appear.
The stainless pistons are bloody brilliant though, I can push them back in with my finger - could never do that with the tech 3 pistons!
Whoever had the 'warbling' sound issue, you might want to check yours - mine started warbling before turning into a full on honk when they were cold. Obviously the disc be was getting very slowly contaminated over the course of a few rides.
So I wonder what the problem is :?. Is it the seals, the piston recesses,or the pistons themselves ?
If the pistons move very easily, could they be too small, in a tiny tiny way. But has to be something causing fluid to get out.
I'm kind of glad I've paired the new leavers with the last model V4 calipers, and was considering having Hope replace the pistons for the new SS ones. But until we know where the issue is, I think I'd be better holding off doing that
My Tech4 e4s have been faultless & leak free so far and they've been on the bike since the hopes came out
To be fair, it's a single piston out of 8 so it's probably just a dodgy batch of seals that got into some of the brakes. And judging by the few people that have had issues it's not that common.
Mine had 5 pistons across both calipers leaking out the box - some of them were like yours and leaking enough to pool on the pads. Hope wanted me to send them back, but I had some uplift days booked and no spare brakes so they sent me some seal kits instead.
Some of the seals were folded over (Im guessing the lip caught on the piston when it was installed). However, some of them were fine and still leaking, so I replaced all of the seals and no more leaks. Glad its fixed but pretty poor considering how much they cost.
My levers are also clicking, but they sent me some master cylinder pistons without asking so Im assuming its a known problem... Theyre brilliant when they work though!!
Well that was disappointing, I fitted the brand new Tech4 V4s and have leaky calliper pistons at both ends out of the box. I couldn't even get them to firm up and have a defined bite point, they just both pull to the bars.
I exercised and lubed the pistons before fitting them to the bike and my impression at that point was very positive, the calliper is quite large and has a much wider opening than the Direttissimas which made it really easy to work with the pistons. The pistons were super smooth and as others have said I could push them back with my finger.
All of the hardware and fixings seem very high quality and much more sturdy that on the Direttissimas. I think the quality of fit and finish is a lot closer than I remembered from the last time I had a play with the Tech4. I think that might have to do with this set being black anodised rather than silver which probably hides a bit of the difference.
Anyway, I've sent these videos to Hope and also Biketart where I brought them, hopefully it'll be resolved quickly because they do seem very nice otherwise.
Your vids are private.
Hmmm, interesting that all these leaks are on V4 callipers.
Anyone had similar issues with the E4? My E4’s have been faultless so far (touch wood)…
Your vids are private.
Oops, should be fixed now.
Hmmm, interesting that all these leaks are on V4 callipers.
Anyone had similar issues with the E4? My E4’s have been faultless so far (touch wood)…
The leak on mine was on the small piston which is the same one the E4 uses for all 4, so I think it's just coincidence tbh. They'll use the same seals/pistons for the E4 and V4 small piston.
Yes my issues were with tech 4 E4
Fitted Friday before a wkd trip to bpw last summer ,rear brake kept loosing pressure but thought if rushed the bleed,once inspected a found fluid bubbling from the piston
1. Returned to wiggle and swapped no issues
2.replacement arrived but the lever creaked like a 20 year old dark peaks gate
3. Replacement again from wiggle arrived and I was suspicious As the clearbag was holding fluid and by thispoinytge front had developed the same issue so I sent them both back
4. At this point i was convinced it was an issue with the same batch so ordered a completely different colour in v4 .........same story within a few miles loss of power and fluid leaking from pistons .
Sent them back for refund
Absolutely gutted as for the 10 minutes they worked they felt incredible
Genuinely gutted as I loved them but Jesus they need to sort there assembly out
Why did you choose a refund? What will you get that's as good or better?
I'm going to give mine a close inspection tomorrow. Theye were awesome last week but a bit spongy. Hopefully all I have is a little air in the system rather than a leak.
I haven't suffered any squealing or honking yet.
After issues with leaky shimano this thread has taken a turn for the worse at the point I’m looking to replace some brakes. Personally I’d take hassle free and no downtime over absolute performance everyday.
The Hope's appear to have absolute performance though and they're completely serviceable and rebuildable for their entire lifespan.
I'll take a minor inconvenience over throwing my brakes in the bin.
Whatever the assembly issue is I bet they don't hang around fixing it.
Inspected my e4s after reading this but mine are fine. Had them 6 months ish so hopefully if they haven't leaked yet they won't start doing. Front was making a bit of noise in the dry last week but that may be pad difference as I've got green front red rear.
That refund loop from wiggle is why mine went back to Hope, they'll rebuild it and make sure it's fine rather than just exchanging it for another one that might also have the same issue.
Only bought mine in September from Wiggle and Hope were fine dealing with it directly.
Fwiw, tech3 E4 here. Used the new hybrid pistons and tech4 master cylinders a few weeks ago.
Stripped the calipers and used new seals with no issues on the front. However, on the rear i forgot to lube up one piston, so when i thumbed it in one seal was damaged and it leaked.
Apart from that (and it was my fault), they are really, really good.
@sharkattack I chose the refund as 4 brakes seemed enough to convince me I'd given them a pretty good shot at actually working.
I'm not of your thinking that at £400 that should be labelled as a minor inconvenience .
What did I get thats better of as qood,well that's subjective as I've actually got some brakes that have actually performed flawlessly since I replaced the last pair of hopes,TRP DH EVO with 2.3mm rotors
Tbh I'm still gutted the hope brakes didn't work out as the lever feel when working is so light it helped my carpul tunel syndrome out no end .
@ta11pau1 I 100% agree mate but the first failure I thought that's a one off ,so paid again for a new one using my wiggle +
this meant I got a new brake the next day and then just awaited the refund of the faulty unit.
The second brake I didn't even get to find if that leaked as the lever had a creak so sent that back.
Then my third order arrived already with fluid in the clear bag from one brake, I'd then decided to try the v4 and when that didn't work out I think I was more than entitled to lose faith
Especially as I'd posted on the mtbr post with others having the same issue
I'm a massive hope fan but this put me right off
The product is Fantastic but I'm wondering whats going on in the assembly line .
Even silly simple stuff I had a pro 4 fortus 30 boost front wheel delivered last year with qr adaptors installed which they sorted quickly but that gets me thinking the people in assembly aren't bikers not that they need to be but someone should be on top of the qc a bit more and know boost 15x110 doesn't take qr adaptors
Qr boost is a thing, not common but it's found.
