[Closed] Hills & Gears

Use gears to maintain optimum cadence vs available power. (optimum being a personal thing)

Unless your on a SS, in which case spin like a loon as long as possible then if the hill is long/steep enough you'll end up poping your knee caps off.

Peddaling fast defers to your aerobic fitness, pedalling slowly and grinding uses muscular effort.

Most people will be better at one than the other, you need to work out if you are fit but not strong in the legs (the former) or strong in the legs (the latter).

spin nowadays. no power in me to power up climbs.

Technical or road?

I tend to alternate between both approaches.

Do you not remember what happened last time you started a thread open to ambiguous discussion!? HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING!?

Personally, I singlespeed with 118-11 gear, the north face of the Eiger was a struggle, but I made it. I find that I was spinning out when I only used a 70t chainring, definitely not as efficient.

Kidding, personal innit. Most people will gravitate toward a 'natural' cadence they'll prefer, and it will depend on individual hill/ride/bike too.

I tend to favour spinning a higher gear (although not like a loon) and save my legs for the descent. Grinding to the top tends to leave my legs weak and wobbly for when the trail gets fun.

Fast twitch muscle (used for strength) also takes longer to recover, where slow twitch is normally quicker - providing you have a decent base level of fitness.

I alternate. Short steep climbs I stand to get them done. Long climbs I sit and get a comfortable rhythm going. If I feel like I am lagging I will stand for a bit to up the pace again.

Lots of factors though. I use flats on hardtails.

I did go through an unfit period when I just sat and granny ring'ed every climb. All that got me was weak legs when I needed them to stand going downhill.

Offroad I tend to use one, only to find the other was the correct approach for that particular hill.

At least, that's what i tell myself as i dismount and walk slowly up.

Oddly - certain hills can change their requirements at will. Which means that simply knowing what didn't work last time, and therefore adopting the other tack this time, is still no guarantee of success, and most likely will be the reason why you didn't get up it this time either.

no general rule for maintaining forward motion, grip, how technical it is, seated/standing, how much you're going to move to maintain grip/balance.
[i]Sometimes[/i] with low grip a higher gear can help you spin the back wheel less and [i]sometimes[/i] on a rocky technical trail a lower spinnier gear will assist but there's plenty of times where those don't apply.
You need to find out what works for you, trying SS can show you where higher gears really do help (I've gotten up stuff on ss that I struggle with on gears) and where they won't (some stuff I get up easy with gears is hard on SS)

but otherwise sitting and spinning a low gear [i]generally[/i] will tire you out less than stood up (heart rate and breathing shoot up) turning a big gear (knackers your leg muscles) but again people differ.

njee20 - Member

Do you not remember what happened last time you started a thread open to ambiguous discussion!? HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING!?

😆 😆 😆

Yes i was most entertained and am a bit bored at work today 🙄

peddle like a nutter

[img] [/img]

We're individuals, an average cadence on the flat might be 90rpm and on hills it tends to be lower, despite changing gear, at 70rpm

The tendency is towards a slower cadence uphill. It's harder to maintain a higher cadence when there's more resistance on the whole pedal stroke and less of a flywheel effect keeping things going that you get when spinning on the flat. Much like wacking up the resistance on a turbo. A slightly lower cadence I think feels like less effort (e.g. dropping from 90 to 80.) Everyone's different though.

Oh and assuming road. Off road loads of more factors come into play.

Edit... Thinking about it, it's probably some function of how the power needs to be applied across the revolution of the pedals. If there's less resistance I think the power mostly comes in on the downstroke, but if there's more resistance then you need to put more effort into pushing through the top of the stroke. I think the latter is better suited to a slower cadence.

theotherjonv - Member
Offroad I tend to use one, only to find the other was the correct approach for that particular hill.

At least, that's what i tell myself as i dismount and walk slowly up.

Oddly - certain hills can change their requirements at will. Which means that simply knowing what didn't work last time, and therefore adopting the other tack this time, is still no guarantee of success, and most likely will be the reason why you didn't get up it this time either.

well put - most of the older hills pretty much know what tactic you are going to use - some hills are looking at forums just to pick up tactical info' from those lax enough to give it away....do any any of those sufferfest training thingies have a pub "on visual" ?

mikewsmith - Member

Technical or road?

I have done a lot more off road/ technical climbs etc so know pretty well where i am with that. Been thinking about it for a while though. In relation to MTB- Fire road etc climbs, tried both approaches and the whole range in between as well as watching others but still undecided.

Roadie is new to me so still trying to find the sweet spot. Strava too is new to me so and having fun doing the local segments and a bit of KOM busting. Question might be- best gearing for optimum speed of assent on relatively short sections of steep road? 😉

ah... WE NEED A ROADIE FORUM!!! 😉

Low gear and peddle like a nutter or high gear and pop you knee caps off?

Sorry what?

[img] [/img]

😉

Spin with the left leg, grind with the right.

It's a niche I feel I can confidently call my own.

Once you're struggling to turn the pedals, it's usually quicker to walk.

Benefit is you get a rest, and if there's a view, you get to enjoy that too.

Once you're struggling to turn the pedals, it's usually quicker to walk.

Surely that depends on what gear you're in? 22-34, definitely. 39-23, no.

22-34, definitely.

Even then, over a decent length climb I still find it faster and less effort to ride the bike than walk, in bike shoes, pushing the bike.

I find it's best to do the climb entirely on your back wheel. That way you save a lot of effort(and tyre wear) because the front wheel doesn't have to spin as well......

[URL= http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/max_torque_2006/Lapierre%20Zesty%20714/uptonogood14_1_zps37ryusnp.jpe g" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/max_torque_2006/Lapierre%20Zesty%20714/uptonogood14_1_zps37ryusnp.jpe g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

(significant extra points awarded for having a massive silly gurning face whilst you do ^^^that 😉

mikewsmith - Member

ah... WE NEED A ROADIE FORUM!!!

Thought i was chancing it even mentioning i was testing the world of roadie....but with language like that you are going to get us banned!!! 😆 😆 😆

It's worth trying different styles. I'm a committed spinner. Nice low gear, hardly ever stand and just spin my way smoothly to the top (or exhaustion, whichever comes first). Suits me, but it means that I'm mainly limited by aerobic fitness. Recently I've been making a conscious effort to grind up some climbs i.e. change up and stand rather than change down for the steepest bits. Although that will never be my preferred style I am finding that the extra strength that comes from doing that from time to time is helping with my overall climbing. I think it is allowing me to climb at a slower cadence (even seated) so I don't blow as soon.

Where's Gatsby, it's a slow day at work today.... 😆

I think doing a mixture of strategies is best: more strings to your bow sort of thing.

As for getting off and walking - I walk up our lane but then setting off on a ride on a 25% gradient with cold muscles isn't the best thing for me. I can and have ridden it but I'd rather not. Out on the trail if I run out of gears or strength then I either get lower gears or get stronger, I won't be losing face and committing hari-kiri over it.

Trainerroad certainly suggests that higher cadence climbing is more efficient than grinding away.

Depends on the terrain.
Spin fast if it's rough, bumpy or loose, helps stop you coming to a halt on a square edge. Lots of 'body english' though to maintain traction.
Spin slow if it's relatively smooth or very good traction.
I seem to spin slower now I'm older. I also spin slower at the end of a ride when I'm tired.

There's usually quite a lot of spin involved with peddlers.

Spin fast if it's rough, bumpy or loose, helps stop you coming to a halt on a square edge. Lots of 'body english' though to maintain traction.

Within reason. I always find it odd the number of mountain bikers who adopt a crazy fast technique which looks like far more effort than it needs to be! I tend to gravitate to around 90rpm for seated climbing, or indeed any riding! It doesn't drop all that much when I stand.

Road: spin, natural cadence is 95-105.
MTB: honk on a singlespeed in a 2:1 gear and spin on the flat.

Feels a good mix because off road I'm out of the saddle so much of the time.

njee20 - Member

'Once you're struggling to turn the pedals, it's usually quicker to walk.'
Surely that depends on what gear you're in? 22-34, definitely. 39-23, no.

If you're struggling to turn the pedals, you're almost stationary - or at least I am.

Is the the high cadence/aerobic efficiency thing proven ?

I thought it was intially the explanation for "his" dominance at the Tour de France. Since we now know there may have been other reasons, and that his aerobic capacity was "remarkably high", doesn't that call the whole lot into question ?

(I hate spinning - shame I've not much strength for mashing, really 🙁 )

I thought it was intially the explanation for "his" dominance at the Tour de France. Since we now know there may have been other reasons, and that his aerobic capacity was "remarkably high", doesn't that call the whole lot into question ?

I'm no expert, but my feeling is that a high cadence makes more demands on your aerobic capacity (handy if you are charging) where mashing makes more of a demand on your muscles. If I mash it is lactic acid build up that stops me, but if I spin it's more a matter of running out of puff.

I'm a spinner . If I try to grind too hard a gear ,I bonk.

I find spinning a high gear works best

Rusty Spanner - Member

Spin with the left leg, grind with the right.

It's a niche I feel I can confidently call my own.

Do you have a wooden leg or can anyone master the technique? 😆

If I'm really killing myself on a 5minute hill I have to alternate spinning and standing to try to access different muscle groups as I go into lactate hell.

The powermeter says that power is down over anything other than a few seconds when I stand because although force increases cadence drops considerably.

This is born out by the fact that I'm slower on my single speed despite putting in HR Zone 6 effort - whoever says spinning gives more aerobic stress hasn't single speeded up a steep long hill. I feel sick thinking about it even now.

Where's Gatsby, it's a slow day at work today....

Did someone use my name in vain? 😉

I'm a fast spinner - it's something that people I ride with often comment on... On the road bike, I'm most comfortable between 90-100rpm (on the flat) although this tends to creep up during rides to up to 120rpm. I presume I must become more supple as the ride progresses...

I obviously slow down my cadence a lot when climbing, not least because I don't use a compact.

On the mountain bike, I've taken to pushing a bigger gear on rough stuff - if you spin fast, the bike feels like it's dropping into every single hole, a slower cadence and bigger gear seems to make you skip over the tops of undulations a bit more. I learnt this from advice from Cancellara on riding the cobbles.

Having said that, techy climbing on a mountain bike, you're either at the right cadence or you're not. Balancing act, innit.

adsh - Member
...This is born out by the fact that I'm slower on my single speed despite putting in HR Zone 6 effort - whoever says spinning gives more aerobic stress hasn't single speeded up a steep long hill. I feel sick thinking about it even now.

On a singlespeed on a long steep hill, my legs are fine, I just run out of oxygen. It must be something to do with those contour lines, because it will happen again 50 metres further up the hill, and again, etc. Damn the Ordnance Survey and its oxygen sucking contour lines! 🙂

You should use an AA road map then, they don't have contour lines.

thegreatape - Member
You should use an AA road map then, they don't have contour lines.

Good point. Do you think if I used white-out on the contour lines on the OS maps that would help? 🙂

thegreatape - Member
You should use an AA road map then, they don't have contour lines.

[b]Outed!![/b] you must be Mark from north Leeds - some great days out in the Dales and plenty of en route surprises - that AA map was a scary piece of kit for navigating

Round my way hills tend to be steep, but short. If I can I try to use my momentum and mash a big gear up them. I've also been using this technique to do some lactic threshold training.

I'm all for keeping my momentum, I do my best to keep the speed up so i dont have to sit and twiddle in my easiest gear, i do all i can, standing, sitting, it dont matter, so i use whatever gear i need with whatever combination of spinning/pushing i need to maintain this.

I just find once you're sitting twiddling, i'm actually spending quite a lot of energy and only extending that amount of time i'm expending energy, hence i end up getting more tired.

Over time, using this tactic of just blasting them out has meant that on may day to day riding, even some rides in much bigger hills, the climbs are simply feeling a lot smaller.

I have no clue if it is more/less efficient, i don't know if it is my fitness, but when i go out riding with sit and twiddlers, each stroke piratically taking them from static to moving, i'm normally a lot fresher than them at the top.

Spinning definitely easier on the knees but if you are after speed then grind away.