[Closed] High Cholesterol...

better than low cholesterol which is linked to depression, suicide and homicide..... in fact the Health Survey for england showed those with cholesterol below 5mmol/L had significantly higher levels of heart disease than those with levals above 5.

id be far more concerned with trgyceride or hba1c levels.

Meaningless without your hdl:ldl ratio.

It'll also depend on what you ate before.

So when I ring the guardian of the GP do I ask to book in for a fasting cholesterol check?

Knowing my doctors they probably book me in for a finger up the bum (so wouldn't be a total loss then)

Do your research on cholesterol before going to the GP. You'll be unsurprised to hear that not all GPs believe in the good/bad cholesterol theory.

Also be cautious of institutionalised dogma in GPs.

I'm afraid you'll need to call the GP for an appointment and they're order the fasting test.

Mine's higher than that, they diagnosed Familial Hypercholesterolemia which can cause high levels in an otherwise healthy person. I've got to take statins for it.

You don't need a fasting sample to measure Cholesterol. Currently we do ask it for full lipid profile but that's the Triglyceride, and we are stopping that as per NICE guidance 7/2014.

I'm concerned you say "quick test". Is that one of those point of care tests in Boots or similar? If so I'd get it checked properly. Some appalling governance and quality control issues with PoCT

And yes, as nickc says above. There is now some considerable debate about the link between high cholesterol levels and cardiac disease. Surprising amount of research funded by the companies that make statins!!

You'll be unsurprised to hear that not all GPs believe in the good/bad cholesterol theory.

read "the great cholestrol con"

by quick test I mean it was a free one at work using a little unit, took a couple of mins to analyse the sample.

previously had one at the doctors that was also high but I kinda hoped that wasnt helped by the massive cheese cake I had the night before.

I starting to acknowledge that maybe it is very high, otherwise I'm a pretty fit for a 42 year old, better start taking it seriously and get checked out properly.

TurnerGuy - Member

You'll be unsurprised to hear that not all GPs believe in the good/bad cholesterol theory.

read "the great cholestrol con"

I have. Hence my comments

I have. Hence my comments

comment not aimed at you, just a follow-on...

Thanks TurnerGuy

You are right the "great cholesterol con " is an interesting take on the obsession we have with the link between high fat diets and cardiac outcomes.
It is, however, just one piece of evidence in an ever complex story.

I'm know at work as "the guy who thinks Statins are the work of the devil" Its the peddling of these drugs by organisations like NICE that really worries me.

But to go back to the OP. Get it checked out, do your research and make your own mind up what to do next.

Eat more Animal fat and less white starchy carbohydrate wheat/breads and sugars, it will drop within a week or two.

I have genetically high collestoral, fist tested in my early 20's. Have a proper test and then you can decide whether you want to change your diet etc. Eat sensibly and ride your bike is a very good start.

I'm know at work as "the guy who thinks Statins are the work of the devil" Its the peddling of these drugs by organisations like NICE that really worries me.

.. and I tend toward it being a case of bad prescription rather than the statins themselves - they certainly have a place in the armoury.

OP - I got called back for another check (I'd insisted on the original one). No one told me you were supposed to be fasted.. and 2 boiled eggs apparently elevate your levels a bit! Second test was lower end of normal, simple by skiping brekkie, but also got the breakdown which was considered healthy.

Statins are out of patent now, aren't they?

Is that why they are pushing for everyone to have them, so they will make money now by the sheer number of pills being taken?

fist tested

Did your gp do this test?

interesting. I had a test this morning (no results yet) which was a fasted test. I had blood tests for other reasons (arthritis) however is was a 'whie a needle is stuck into your arm' type thing. So, interested in the results now, an the follow on advice. I'm pretty sure I'll end up very confused.

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/555471/Medical-experts-furious-that-doctors-will-be-paid-to-dole-out-risky-statins

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/deciphering-cholesterol-results

This is the blog you need to read, it's his area of expertise. He won't be popular with the Establishment for his views and he tells it like it is:

http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/

Great blog that is Cinnamongirl, its its an in depth way of telling them what i posted earlier in the thread

Eh??? What happend to the rest of my text??? Only the begining got posted??? Weird!

Contrast in GP attitudes?
My levels are a wee bit higher than MrsTs yet she got prescribed statins, I didn't?
The statins prescribed to MrsT did not mix well with the other meds she takes for her psoriac arthritis and laid her low for a week before her GP believed they were actually having the side affects listed. She just happened to be the 1 in whatever 1k+ person to suffer 🙄
MrsT works in an NHS field and knows how GPs are funded 😉

Lawmanmx, did you try to put an ampersand in there? That seems to get chopped off 😕

Trekster... When you say you're wife know how GPs are funded 'wink', could you elaborate?

DrP

How do you tell? A test? I give blood so maybe they pick it up there? (They routinely screen your blood for other things)

DrP - Member

Trekster... When you say you're wife know how GPs are funded 'wink', could you elaborate?

DrP

By the way. The decision to place a patient on Statins is often decided through a complex algorithm called QRisk. It may be that although your wife has slightly lower cholesterol levels she may have other issues raising her risk of cardiac disease and hence placed on Statins. All GP's use the same risk calculator so its not a difference in GP attitudes.

We need transparency and we're not getting it with NICE and their links to Big Pharma nor with clinical trials that are biased right from the start.

Is the reason why GPs are leaving the profession in droves due to them being put in an impossible position with regard to prescribing targets for medicalising conditions instead of utilising their knowledge to know what is the most appropriate treatment, if any, for the patient?

Thresholds for many conditions are being reduced hence the increase in prescribing statins and other medications.

Read 'Doctoring Data' by Dr Malcolm Kendrick and learn how statistics are being manipulated by creative wording and the twisting thereof.

We need a fundamental shift in our attitude towards health and that begins by introducing personal health to the curriculum at school.

I'll shut up now and step down from my soapbox. 😀

http://www.thincs.org/Malcolm.htm

Yes come on Trekster. What is this funding model of which you speak. QOF??

Think c_g has explained it better than my limited education could....

I know this is probably labouring the point, but actually CG hasn't explained your point at all.

CG refers to "Doctoring Data"(great book) which primarily looks at the shenanigans that go on in medical research, national guidance and the pharmaceutical industry.

It does not address or imply any link between GP funding and Big Pharma, if that is what you were referring to. There are links I accept, but not around general funding which is primarily an issue with local CCG's.

Sorry OP this is going off topic I know, but something I care passionately about (I'm very wary of new NICE guidance and wont commission it without empirical trial)

jobro - may I just hijack your reply to Trekster? Who is one supposed to trust these days cos from my old, cynical and jaded viewpoint it's looking as clear as mud!

Do you work for the NHS then?

[i]Who is one supposed to trust these days[/i]

IME you're best of with the clinicians who've known you for years. Personally, those front line primary care GPs and Dentists are doing a difficult job with limited resources, but are probably still your best bet for fundamentally decent honest opinions and care*.

The 'problem' if you want my opinion is that funding of healthcare in this country is directed politically towards those large white buildings full of sick people when they should be going into primary care which isn't nearly as headline grabbing and sexy.

The system's beginning to change, but there are many vested interested, and not all of them are pharma and corporate.

* I'm sort of aware that you've had issues with both GPs and dentists, I'm not suggesting for a minute that they're all sainted, but most are trying to do their best, y'know?

Do you work for the NHS then?

'tis the cross I carry. A clinical commissioner, specifically, Diagnostic services for Devon.

And yes its as clear as mud. Which is why I say Kendrick is great, but look at all the voices out there.

I've only just learnt out that obesity doesn't cause type 2 diabetes! Its a mad world

The good news is that riding your bike is the best thing you can do, and if you ride a 29er its even better. Fact 🙂

It does not address or imply any link between GP funding and Big Pharma, if that is what you were referring to. There are links I accept, but not around general funding which is primarily an issue with local CCG's.

she only has indirectly - as if you read Dr kendricks great cholestrol con book you will come away with a clear association between pharma and statin recommendations from the medical industry, in that the evidence for the effectiveness of statins shown by the trials he quotes in his book is very tenuous, but the link between people conducting the trials and/or recommending statins and pharma is not.

The book also that it is only after you have a heart attach that statins are shown to reduce the risk of having another one, but not actually bettering mortality.

Being that the health industry recommended avoiding saturated fats for a long time and pushed people to margarines, which now turn out to be bad for you, then it is right to be very dubious of any recommendation of theirs to use statins.

The book also points out that your brain needs cholestrol to work properly, which is why statins can be bad for your memory, as pointed out by some prominent people but also shouted down by the pharma influenced medical industry.

Plus has anyone ever trialled the combination of statins and drugs that MrsT is on?

Who knows what the risk is of combining them.

[i]'tis the cross I carry. A clinical commissioner, specifically, Diagnostic services for Devon.[/i]

ooh, small world I work for a diagnostic services provider...

I agree entirely Turnerguy. The links between lipid research and Statin manufacturers is very disturbing.

As a previous statin taker I can safely say that I no longer live in a mental fog and feel crap 24/7 having come off them over 7 months ago. My leg and arm stregth is back as is my endurance.....yes my total serum has gone up from 3.2 to 5.6 (but I'd had cheese nearly every day as its my one vice left in life being a diabetic).
My good cholesterol wil protect my heart as will the increased amount of riding I can do again now whereas previously I would struggle to walk up hills I used to ride up and can now ride up again.
The overall effect of statins on the human body is not just to reduce cholesterol but so much more other damaging debilitating side effects ie memory loss...I was forgetting people's names who I knew really well, couldn't go to the shops for two items without forgetting one of them once there.
I would love to know if there's any link to statin use and reduction in Vitamin D levels...they are known reduce CQ10 for instance.....as now I'm on Vit D3 supplements I e dropped a diabetic tablet and shed a stone in weight in two months and there is a study somewhere that shows when people who couldn't tolerate statins for joint and muscle pain had their Vit D levels restored and were put back on statins that they had no more muscle/joint/pain or weakness!
My new doctor doesn't seem to be driven by just dishing out a hammer size tablet to hit the pin tack on the head and I have to say it's rather refreshing than from my old surgery where the ethos seemed to be funding driven.

[i]Being that the health industry recommended avoiding saturated fats for a long time and pushed people to margarines, which now turn out to be bad for you, then it is right to be very dubious of any recommendation of theirs to use statins.[/i]

Absolutely and therein lies the main issue. Bodies such as the NHS were trusted to inform and guide the public. Now it's slowly emerging that they got it very wrong. So in simple terms, who's going to listen to them in future? Confusion will reign. Better the NHS publically admitted to historical, institutional dogma and that they need to change.
That way, at least, people might give them a second chance. Instead, all I see is snippets, dribs and drabs of "new" guidance slipping out and not necessarily from the NHS. The entire dietary fat hypothesis has been badly managed and it's time someone put their hand up and set the record straight.
A while back I posted a link to a BBC article reporting that actually, dietary fat was not only better for you than previously thought, but that it is in fact, essential. Then our local neighbourhood NHS advocate tried to dish my post as old news, as if the clinical advice had recommended dietary fat for a longtime. Which was plane tosh.

Edit:
There's some good, up to date information out there now, regarding Cholesterol. Just don't be disappointed if your NHS GP doesn't agree with that information...

nickc - my q was really just a general q, not relating to specific individuals or myself. What's really needed is for folk to educate themselves more about their health and monitor accordingly, it can't be left to the DoH/NHS. It needs to be on the curriculum.

jobro- thanks for explaining. 🙂

Suggsey - good to hear of an improvement in your health but of course we do hear about vit D but not enough of its benefits. Also one needs to take a reasonable-sized dose taken alongside fatty food for maximum absorption, probably more needed in Winter. I take 5,000iu daily but am in no way suggesting others should do this and it's quite cheap to get vit D tested anyway.

Of course we were lectured to apply sun cream regularly and it's now been proved that it wasn't necessarily good advice. 🙄

Another vitamin that's often overlooked is B12, pernicious anaemia. that can make a huge difference to health.

To add to CinnamonGirls point earlier re. Health in schools.

My viewpoint is that our western medical model of health essentially means we actually have sick care and not health care.

I.e we invest far more in pills and cures instead of investing in trying to help people stay 'healthy' e.g. cheap gym memberships, cheaper childcare to allow parents to get out more, better street lighting to help individuals feel safer when going to a gym\class in the dark, cycle lanes etc.

I guess it's all down to the fact the most powerful in society set the terms and conditions and within a neoliberalist society the people setting these terms are the huge corporations etc with their agenda of bank balances....

I take 5,000iu daily but am in no way suggesting others should do this and it's quite cheap to get vit D tested anyway.

Its actually, relatively, expensive to test Vitamin D - about £20
Coupled with the fact that pathology tests for vit D don't measure the free (active form) of vit D, doesn't measure the various forms of Vit D equimolarly and it doesn't have a normal range as we would normally understand it, then I always suggest giving the patient Vit D rather than measuring it and see if they get better! Its a lot cheaper.

It would help if the medical profession (and the Daily Mail) remembered that Vitamin D isn't a vitamin but a hormone. The above becomes more obvious.

jobro - I should of course had stated D3. 😳

edenvalleyboy - completely agree with your post, well said. 🙂

I was forgetting people's names who I knew really well, couldn't go to the shops for two items without forgetting one of them once there.

I do that now and I am not on any medication 🙁

Is the reason why GPs are leaving the profession in droves due to them being put in an impossible position with regard to prescribing targets for medicalising conditions instead of utilising their knowledge to know what is the most appropriate treatment, if any, for the patient?

DrP

DrP - taking a surgery in any part of the country then (to make the q easier) out of the patients seen in any given day how many of those appointments could have been avoided if patients were better educated on their health?

I understand that there is increasing workload but am trying to understand why. OK, that's sounding a daft q but is it just as simple as too many older people needing ever more treating or what?

Or is it an education problem? Or can it not be simplified?

Probably can't be simplified.
Put it this way...'probably' about [b]half [/b]of my 'work' is seeing patients. As in, face to face, hand on belly, finger up etc etc...
The other half is:
blood tests (both ones I ask for, and ones the hospital sends me)
referrals
reading letters (both ones I ask for, and ones the hospital sends me)
management stuff.
figuring out ways of leaping through pointless hoops to maintain practice income and sustainability.

I really don't think the patients can be 'blamed' as such, but yes, the ageing population and lack of self care is also increasing the workload demand for 'patienty stuff'.

Primary care is cheap in terms of provision of care.
Hospitals aren't.
LOTS of 'things' (think of this as being tasks, reviews, tests etc) are being diverted away from hospital (because they are expensive to perform there), and to primary care (because we are cheap. And we are suckers.) We generally don't get any extra funding for this.

It's like you ordering a takeaway from Dominos. They make the pizza and provide the box, but then knock on the poor independent cafe next door and [b]tell [/b]them to take it to you. It would be cruel to NOT deliver your pizza, so they do it. But they don't get paid for it, and the cafe owner is tired from a long day at work so can't muster the energy to say no. Plus the pizza is there and the dominos man has left, so he may as well.....

DrP