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I'm trying to help a work mate with bike problems and have run into what could be a 'more than it is worth' type problem.
The bike is a very old and although much used, in reasonable condition thing. It isn't worth more than about £20 and the owner doesn't have unlimited funds, so I want to help by bringing the bike back to life.
The problem was a slipping chain under load due to wear, or so I initially thought. Turns out the chain is relatively new and not even worn to 0.5 on the tool but, the freewheel is causing the problem and slips round randomly under minimal pressure.
It is a 5 speed rear, which I guess is a freewheel part of the cassette rather than the later freehub and separate cassettes more what I am used to.
Question it, as the ratchet bit of whatever it is appears to be damaged, is it part of the 'cassette' and replaced as a whole, or do I need to look at buying various bits.
Looking on google suggests the outer ring is removed with a peg spanner and then a tool similar to a std cassette tool but larger is used to unscrew the whole thing.
Is this correct and does it sound like it can be serviced or is it a case of once slipping, something is broken and a new unit is required?
Any help and pointers are most appreciated as I don't really want to take it apart to a point and risk damaging things further with impropper tools etc.
You can take those apart and clean and rebuild them. Could be a broken spring or dried up grease. This is usually the cause on bikes of this level - they rarely do enough miles to wear out the pawls or ring.
Check youtube for how to vids, but its pretty easy. Remember it a left hand thread on the lockring and Be careful when you lift off the sprockets as balls n pawls will probably go everywhere!
Oh, and it's the ring with the 4 holes in that you need to undo. The sprocket and free hub assembly is screwed on to the hub body as one piece with a right hand thread using a hg lockring style tool. You need to remove the axle and cones before removing the whole freehub, but I'm pretty sure (it's been a few years and beers since I last did one) you can service the freehub with out removing the axle etc.
Or you could just buy a new 5 speed freewheel for 12 quid or so.
Edit since posting this and then seeing more replies.
Does the lockring with the 4 holes remove the whole thing as suggested by the first reply, or just reveal the splined section into which a tool is placed to remove the whole thing?
I have seen videos for both options and don't really want to go to the trouble of bearings and pawls everywhere if I can spend £12 or so on a new unit which simply screws on.
Lockring with 4 holes to disassemble the freehub and rebuild it, or, remove the hub axle and use a standard splined cassette tool to remove the whole freehub (probably, some of them need a slightly different tool to the shimano hg jobby)
They are really cheap to replace, but you might get into a new chain and possibly chainrings too if the new sprockets won't run with the old chain.
The teeth look pretty good though and if the chain has less than .5 wear then it should run fine.
They're quite satisfying to refurb though, but you will need some patience with small ball bearings and a spare hour or so....
5 speed freewheels are only about £12 or so but I think that the tool may have slightly different splines from a cassette locking. You can see whether a lock ring tool fits but I think I used to have a different tool. It may have been canny marketing though.
It's one of those cases where it may be easier to take to a bike shop as the tool is more expensive than the new freewheel block.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/freewheels-5-speed/
The other option to remove it could be to undo the cover with 4 pin holes, remove the cogs, ratchet etc. ready for recycling and use something like an oil filter wrench or large stilson to unscrew the fixed core of the freewheel. That isn't an option if you ever want to put it back on again
The ring marked "Sachs" unscrews. An ordinary centre-punch and a hammer will do the deed, tap it clockwise
Put the hub non-driveside on a cloth on the bench, wrap more cloth around between the largest sprocket and the spokes and slowly lift the sprocket part up. The cloths should keep everything where you can find it if the cloth fills the gap as the body separates.
As said ^^ when you lift the sprockets you are actually separating the two main parts of the free-wheel mechanism and 100 1/8" steel balls will be freed, along with shims and a couple of pawls and pawl springs.
If the pawls and springs are intact then it should just be a case of clean up and rebuild. Lots of grease to hold the balls in place, minimal trace of grease on the pawls and spring areas. You shouldn't need new balls unless they're rusty or worse.
It can be a bit Jenga-esque to reassemble, or it might fit together without effort. A loop of cotton thread can be used to temporarily hold the pawls closed, pull it free before the body is fully home
Oh, and one fewer ball on a race rather than one too many
Thanks again everybody. Wonderful advice and insight into the problem 🙂
Think I'll try remove the whole thing in one go and replace it for £12 ish, as I don't mind working on things to help but I really don't fancy chasing 100 ball bearings around and fighting with the innards 'just' to save said £12.
Will rethink the whole job if none of my tools get it off though, as the chances of needing to do another don't really justify yet another tool purchase.
Take it apart as suggested, grip the remaining lump of metal in a vice/stilson and unscrew (RH thread)
Easiest is the vice, freewheel down and use the wheelrim as a lever, steering wheel stylee
Another vote here for strip and rebuild it. It really is very easy - I've done a singlespeed freewheel in half an hour lunch break when it was slipping on the ride into work. I've quite a soft spot for bike parts that can be serviced with just a hammer and nail 🙂
At best it will cost nothing, or £1 if the balls need replacing.
Even if you need to replace the lot it saves you money as the screw on inner portion is removed without buying a new splined tool (assuming you have a vice or stilsons). You don't need a tool to fit the new one - pedalling tightens it on the hub.
Just took the axle out so I can get to the tool location and it is indeed different to every cassette removal tool I already have.
So, do I now disassemble the lockring and hope it all falls to bits in a fashion that I can repair and re-assemble it, or give up and suggest she takes it to a shop that will already have the tools to do it.
If it was for me or my family I'd take it apart and see what I can do, which could end up with not being able to do anything, loosing half the contents and covering the cost myself in whatever form that presents (probably a new bike.... lol)
A bit trickier when I am essentially doing a favour for somebody. I don't mind some out of pocket expenses to get it working and put a smile on their face but, things like these have a habit of biting me on the backside and costing a lot more.
It's only 100 bearings, some fiddly springs and grease - what could possibly go wrong. 😂
Too late to edit the above.
I found the below video a few minutes ago, which explains pretty much all of the above and clarified my decision to give further investigation a go.
The 'worst' that can happen is I get it all off and have to buy a new freewheel for her, which is £12 or so.
Worth it to keep another bike going and the rider happy 🙂
@twonks - this is the tool I used when replacing the 7 speed freewheel on my wife’s Dahon espresso years ago.
I ended up having her sit on and hold the tyre of the wheel whilst I used an extension bar on a massive spanner. Nearly tacoed the rim with the force needed, I swore never again and upgraded her wheel! 😂
The video you had I think is a work, no way is it that easy to come off.
If I can find it I could post the tool out to you to borrow if you would like, just send me a PM with your details etc?
Many thanks @kimura54321 I got it off using by unscrewing the lockring and sure enough ball bearings a plenty. Caught them all in a tub and proceeded to get agitated quickly trying to put them back in.
I am not very good with that sort of work, especially when a replacement is so cheap. It's worth the £13 that a new unit cost for me to keep my sanity.
Got the old inner bit off with a wrench and took the opportunity to remove the axle again and clean / regrease the bearings in there.
I'm just going to ask for a tenner, which gets the owner a serviced bike and new freewheel / brake pads front and rear.
Great business model but, that's not why I try to help 🙂
Think that counts as a result!
Glad you sorted it out without too much bother and got to make a friend happy in the process 👍
Have a play at rebuilding the old one - it is quite therapeutic, honest 🙂. If it isn't going to get used it doesn't matter if there are some missing balls - it will just be a bit wobbly.