[Closed] Help - Noob needs help with a road / cx bike.

[b]O M G[/b]

planet x have the new kaffenback at £850. not a bad choice.

genesis cdf and day one can run guards. D1 are already pretty chunky add in an alfine and I bet it's a bit of a porker, supposed reliabilty of hub gears tho. Dunno how the CDFs shape up. Not seen anything about the new kaffenbak but if it's true to form it'll be reet for guards and racks.

ps

I dont want some lean pain inducing racing machine

My solution to a very similar set of demands was this:

[img] [/img]
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-pro-dx-cross-4400-compact-612199/aid:612201

Light (enough), discs, capable of "proper" road rides but tough enough for rough towpaths etc, mudguard and pannier mounts, more relaxed CX geometry.

I'm very happy with mine - in fact I just rode it to work this very morning.

(Edit: that particular one is above your budget but the same frame is available with cheaper groupset, e.g. with Shimano 105 it is £1123)

http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/bikes/road-bikes/merlin-road-bikes/merlin-malt-4-season-road-bike.html

Spend the change on pedals, mudguards, panniers and kit.

CX bikes will do what you want, but they're primeraly for hour long races spent mostly stood up i.e. they're stiff! But they can usualy take big tyres so there's some comfort there.

If it's got pannier mounts and mudguard eyes it's not a CX bike, it's a touring bike the marketing department's realised it can sell to YUPies.

road without pain is like mountain biking without hour long hikeabikes

+1

CX bikes are crap on the road and crap off the road so should be perfect for you 😉

As your lungs and legs should be on fire so you wont notice the little niggles from your back
Re mudguards yu can get ones that fit to the frame so do not require rack mounts etc and you can get seatpost mounted pannier racks
Work ok

I have nothing to say but WOW....when we going out then for a chain gang...me, you DONK and wors...sure you will tuck in nicely

PS mine was a CAAD 54 cm for comparison - how was that for you comfort wise?
You may prefer slight;y smaller to start with but it is the right size for you IMHO

Pinnacle Arkrose.

[img] [/img]

(from evans)

[url= http://www.evanscycles.com/products/pinnacle/arkose-two-2013-cyclocross-bike-ec039562#features ]i'd get this one, tiagra groupset, £800.[/url]

i love my Genesis Cdf, but it's not exactly light...

I recently got a [url= http://www.evanscycles.com/products/norco/indie-drop-2-2013-road-bike-ec041260#features ]Norco Indie Drop[/url] - I basically had exactly the same requirements as you, first ever road bike, I took one for a test ride and loved it. It's steel so is a bit heavier than some, but is way under your budget so you could make some upgrades with the money you have left?

If it's got pannier mounts and mudguard eyes it's not a CX bike, it's a touring bike the marketing department's realised it can sell to YUPies.

[img] [/img]

CX just handily identifies a category of bikes - you don't [i]have[/i] to do cyclocross races on them any more than you have to a UCI ranking for it to be a road bike.

CX bikes are crap on the road and crap off the road

You are clearly riding a very different CX bike to me 😀

I bought a kinesis pro 6 frame for the duties you describe.
It took time for me to adjust to drops but now I really enjoy riding it .
Btw, I think soma funk(?) built up a lovely looking kinesis frame which would also fit the bill .
More relaxed geometry I believe ...

CX bikes are crap on the road and crap off the road
You are clearly riding a very different CX bike to me

Dont get me wrong for what Lowey needs I would get one but it is a bit jack of all trades and master of none..IMHO

I've bought a second hand Genesis CDF as a general riding about bike. It's no lightweight but it'll take guards and racks and is tough enough to ride on any terrain that'll leave your eyeballs in your head. Junkyard is spot on really but they do make a good option for mixed riding. And yes it is a marketing label, I didn't buy it for CX riding as such but as a bike to get back to 30 years ago when I was riding my Coventry Eagle over the Downs and around country lanes. I'm planning to put lower gearing on at some point as I like a 1:1 bottom gear.

Happy to race you on road on my road bike

I have no doubt you'd win. But as I said you don't [i]"have to a UCI ranking for it to be a road bike".[/i]

I've had it out for a few long road rides with mates on [i]proper[/i] road bikes and it kept up just fine.

kinesis crosslight Pro 6, can be built up to a very nice commuter for around £1000.

I use mine for commuting at the moment until I can find a cheaper replacement.

[img] [/img]

CX bikes are crap on the road and crap off the road

If it's got pannier mounts and mudguard eyes it's not a CX bike, it's a touring bike the marketing department's realised it can sell to YUPies.

Specialized Tricross disc, everything you want.

he has a point tho, slower than a road bike

Depends on the road bike (and more importantly the rider).

With an off-the-shelf weight of 8.75kg that Rose is lighter than some proper road bikes, like a [url= http://road.cc/content/review/55145-specialized-allez-comp ]Specialized Allez Comp (9.26kg)[/url], despite the Rose being a beefier build and having disc brakes.

Replace the Racing Ralphs with some narrower slicks (I went for Conti 4 season) and there is no reason it can't keep up.

got a day one coz it has discs, can fit full guards over 32c knobblies (and is SS), it also has rack mounts. Now is that closer to a cx or a tourer? Genuine question I haven't owned a "proper" version of either. I'm guessing these new not-CX bikes are probably a hybrid of the two but closer to CX, geometry and frame wise.

My comment was a tongue in cheek dig at the "i need a CX bike for commuting on potholed roads and sustrans routes" people, in my head I'm imagining they drive chelsea tractors for the same reason.

A lot of bikes now labelled "CX" are really what might used to have been called rough-stuff tourers. But that's not very trendy. (I've got one but have disguised it with a cotton duck saddle bag, mudguards and leather saddle)

From your post I would say you are really after a normal touring bike. If you can withstand the shame of not having something fashionable, have a look at the ones made by Dawes or Ridgeback.

Regarding pain, pay attention to handlebar height. If you're not racing there is no reason to set them particularly low.

Lowey - if you can find a medium one of these then you'll be laughing:
http://www.boardmanbikes.com/cx/cx_team.html

i really like my "drop bar hybrid" AKA CX Kinesis pro6 - don't race but at the end of a road ridewhen my mates are putting their carbon road bikes in the car for the drive home i'm ready to ride some mixed trails home - not perfect not the best for anything but the best for getting out and about albeit a bit slower

edit though I mostly work at home a lot of weeks I commute for 3 days 40% rough dirt trail 20% smooth gravel 40% tarmac and it just works

graham rose is £270 more and mail order (normally better/lighter for the same money anyway), still sounds impressively light for discs tho, by our luggage scales (not very accurate) mine is about 25lb!

Changing tyres is kinda cheating, could stick 29er tyres on and get something closer to MTB handling too, I was really talking about with original kit. That said I am thinking that if my road bike dies I might get a dirty disco or similar to replace it (just coz I do so little road)

graham rose is £270 more and mail order (normally better/lighter for the same money anyway)

Agreed - but I was making the point that only the nichest of snobs would say that the Specialized Allez Comp was "crap on the road" or not a proper road bike.

So if that Rose is lighter than it and has a better groupset then why would it struggle to keep up? The CX geometry isn't [i]that[/i] different surely?

sounds impressively light for discs tho

Aye - tis accurate though, I checked it with my luggage scales when it was delivered 😀

Changing tyres is kinda cheating

Bear in mind that Rose build to order so you could spec different tyres off-the-shelf, probably at no cost.

The CX geometry isn't that different surely

Sorry for hijacking your thread lowey, you bought that 29er yet?

no interest in TT frames then 😉

Touring will be more" relaxed" geometry with some notion of comfort rather than outright aerodynamic tuck with a slammed stem stylee

No idea what CX geometry is tbh

Cannondale CAADX 105. With a second set of wheels (used 105/ultegra spec and a 12-23 cassette) for proper road duties. I lifted a CAADX and a Genesis, one in each arm. You'll notice the more than one kilo difference in weight of the CdF! I really wouldn't bother with disk brakes - save the money and put it towards some nicer lighter spare wheels for proper road riding.

I'm genuinely interested in the differences between road, cx and touring frames (and what real world differences they make) if anyone has links.

Thats the question I'm asking. Some good suggestions on here thanks. I'm not really arsed about the weight, two commutes a week and a big dump will loose more weight off me that any pimp components on a bike will.

I'm looking for something that is comfy, not a speed machine but it much more fit for pourpose than an MTB with slicks on it.

The genesis looks good, as does that Pinnacle. Kaffenback also looking good I think.

Donk, decided against the 29'er. I'd basically have two bikes that essentially did the same thing, so going to get something complety different.

JK and Donk... I can understand the shock value of me posting this, but thats as far as it goes. I'd rather pull a kidney out of my arse with a piece of rusty barb wire than join a chain gang. 😆

I really wouldn't bother with disk brakes

protest all you want lowey you're already being drawn in. This is just the first step on a long journey of discovery 😉

cheers tinas \/

I'm genuinely interested in the differences between road, cx and touring frames (and what real world differences they make) if anyone has links.

Road would be quick handling but stable, (73 paralel and chainstays as short as possible, BB failry low)

CX longer chainstays to give some stability and room for mud, angles slacker by 1-2deg. Ammerican CX bikes have much lower BB's than euro ones, as they do a lot more raceing in the dry on dirt tracks, whereas wuro ones are designed to give plenty of clearance over obstacles/mud. They often have long seatubes and heatubes as being aero is less important, but big frames are easier to shoulder. The yanks even have a niche within a niche, Gravel Bikes, road geometry, CX toughness, no mud clearence, designed for raceing on fire roads.

Touring bikes have long chainstays to give clearance between your heels and panniers. They're also slacker/more offset for the reasons given below about toe overlap.

Head angle and fork rake are also important for avoiding toe overlap with the front wheel, the biger the tyres/mudguards you want to run the slacker/more offset you need. Generaly bikes are built to minimise the wheelbase so road bikes are steeper, then CX, then tourers are slacker in that order to fit small tyres, big tyres then big tyres with guards.

Obviously within all that you've got frame materials, how tough you want it to be, etc etc as well. A tourer would be much more comfortable than a CX bike for example.

I don't commute off-road, but I do commute 20 miles every day including throughout the winter snow. One set of caliper brake blocks in the past 12mo and the Open Pro rims show little wear. Also if I was to have ONE bike for everything, I'd want to be able to switch wheels to something a lot lighter - and there is little availability for cheap, light, 700c wheels. The CdF would be soul destroying for road rides. And I like steel bikes!

Giant TCX would be another suggestion. But you will need some extra wheels and a 12-23 cassette to mimic conventional road gearing.

I really wouldn't bother with disk brakes

Disagree - especially for commuting on potentially muddy Sustrans routes.

Even [i]proper[/i] road bikes are heading towards discs these days as folk crossing over from MTBing realise the advantages.

e.g.

[img] [/img]
http://road.cc/content/news/88238-pinarello-launch-dogma-hydraulic-disc-brakes

I don't disagree that disks offer real advantages (carbon rims are the most obvious case), but tell me where you will find some used disk-braked kysirium-Elite-quality sub 1500g second hand wheels to match the CX bike the OP is looking at for under £200?

For me, it would be TCX or CAADX with canti brakes and a second set of wheels. That would be about the same as a Genesis CdF with disk brakes. Having ridden a Day One alfine and lifted a CdF, I would go for something a lot lighter. (And I own a Genesis steel mtb)

when we going out then for a chain gang...me, you DONK and wors

If you can keep up you slacker 😉

The CdF would be soul destroying for road rides. And I like steel bikes!

I managed a nice 60 mile road ride on mine on Monday including a ride up Ditchling Beacon and at 55KG thats a lot of metal for me to be pedaling uphill but it was fine. I wasn't keeping up with anyone and I wasn't in a rush to get anywhere, If I'd ridden faster I'd have just ended up back at home earlier. I could do with losing the cx tyres though as I only tend to do short sections off road. And I'd definitely go with disk brakes on a bike you going to ride all through the winter.

canti brakes wear out too fast in wet/ muddy conditions the brakes are also a pain. mini vs might be better but discs are superior by miles.

Wheels aren't really a problem; open sport on deore cost under £100.

A front disc to my commuter (pompino) is one of the best upgrades i've made to any bike ever!!

If you can keep up you slacker

@Junkyard: No idea what CX geometry is tbh

So how can you be so sure that it will be crap on the road, compared to a road bike, if you don't even know what the differences are?

@TiRed: tell me where you will find some used disk-braked kysirium-Elite-quality sub 1500g second hand wheels to match the CX bike the OP is looking at for under £200?

And why would he need those for a bike he primarily wants to commute on down [i]"60percent road, 40percent towpath / sustrans"[/i] routes? 😕

Yeah the market for cheap second hand high-spec disc road wheels is obviously very small at the moment, as they are only just hitting the shelves brand new.

Give it a couple of years and I'm sure you'll see a different picture.

I ride most of my road miles on a CX bike with road tyres. It's fine/great. I love my proper road bike but it's not some massive difference. The proper road bike is just a touch twitchier and has a slightly longer/lower position.

No idea what CX geometry is tbh

Very approximately, 1cm shorter top tube for a given size, slightly longer chainstays, 1ish degree slacker head angle.

So how can you be so sure that it will be crap on the road, compared to a road bike, if you don't even know what the differences are?

Well he said he fancied a single road/CX bike that can do it all. For me that would mean a second set of wheels and tyres and alternative gearing would take priority over brake format. Perhaps not for you. The CdF is what would reasonably be called a tourer, but that is so unfashionable these days. Nice ride, I'm sure, but I prefer something that feels a little more race bike, personally.

WRT geometry; the CAADX has almost the same geometry as the CAAD8 road bike. A 72 degree head angle vs. 73 degrees, is about it. Same top tube, head tube and wheelbase. The tubing is clearly the same profiled aluminium and the welds are errr best described as agricultural (compared with early 'dales).

I dont know the geometry of an Orange patriot either but will make the same "guess"

Yeah, but that's apples and oranges. Whereas you'd have to have a pretty keen eye to differentiate a CX bike and a road bike from a distance.

As clubber says, it's a centimetre here and a a couple of degrees there.

e.g. Rose Pro DX Cross 4400 versus Rose Xeon DX 4400 (road bike):

[img] [/img]
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^^did he just say 55kgs??" a bike that weighs 55KG??!! surely not.

As for fashion I'm not arsed if its a tourer, cx or some other name,,, i just want something that will fit my requirements noted in the op.

Thanks for all your comments... very helpful cheers (except Junk[i]oh-no-ive-wrecked-a-perfectly-good-bike[/i]Yards's, obviously).

Give it a couple of years and I'm sure you'll see a different picture.

I'm less than convinced,

CX- yes
commuting - maybe/yes, I'd prefer a commuter to be cheep and simple
winter - maybe/yes I f****** hate crap weather, I'd rather do 2x20 on the turbo, but can se the appeal on a kaffencback
Racers - no, appart from changes to rims where's the advantage, and any tiny advantage gained from fully aero rims is going to be canceled out by the callipers?

The stuff from colnago, pinarello etc are just marketing IMO, make a goog looking bike with disks and every magazine int he world want's to print a pic, brilliant advertising! How many C59 disks do you actualy think will be sold?

is it me or does [url= http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-pro-dx-cross-4400-compact-612199/aid:612201 ]this rose 4400[/url] look like it's got 200mm discs on it?

^^did he just say 55kgs??" a bike that weighs 55KG??!! surely not.

Not like you fat bastards well build tall fellas will get much of a tow from me at the front

that will definitely get done at some point
Im sure of it

You're wrong jy - just accept it and don't make yourself look silly 😉

is it me or does this rose 4400 look like it's got 200mm discs on it?

Are you looking at "The Configurator" view? - that shows all the components as you have selected but doesn't get the scale quite right (not sure if that is on purpose to highlight the difference or just plain wrong).

If you click the spanners you can change components and your choices are reflected in the pic. If you click the little camera icon you can see a proper photo of a built-up bike (but not necessarily featuring the components you have selected).

Germans!

^^did he just say 55kgs??" a bike that weighs 55KG??!! surely not.

Sorry what I saying in a not very clear way was that there is only 55KG of me which means a heavier bike has quite a substantial effect on my overall power to weight ratio.

Sorry what I saying in a not very clear way was that there is only 55KG of me which means a heavier bike has quite a substantial effect on my overall power to weight ratio.

commuting - maybe/yes, I'd prefer a commuter to be cheep and simple

My off road commuter has a v brake on the back and a BB7 on the front - I know which one I consider to be simpler to set up and maintain and I can see no reason that cable disks should not be able to compete on price with any rim brake that actually works especially if you offset the cost of the rotor itself against the cost of worn rims.

As for real road bikes if the UCI sanction them for road racing you can guarantee that Sky for one will fully test them and let the science decide whether to use them or not.

Cotic >X<. Love mine.