[Closed] Help me sort my bloody legs out...please

skydragon - Member
If that's the case, finding time to do longer rides is always a challenge. Is 3 x 10 mile rides the same as 1 x 30 mile ride from a getting fitter perspective?

Definitely not.
Doing 3x10 mile rides/week gets your body conditioned to riding 10 miles at a certain pace.
It won't build up the muscular endurance to do 30 miles at the same pace; although you should be able to do 30 miles if you back off the gas enough. I find hills are always the 'tipping point' for me getting cramp as it makes the muscle strain much harder.

When you say you ride 25-35 miles most weeks......do you mean in a few sessions or in one go? If it is in a number of sessions, then it's not surprising that you get cramp when going out and doing your normal weekly amount of riding in one session; particularly if you are riding with more experienced riders who are probably pushing you harder?

I would try to mix in one longer ride/week if you can & perhaps some hill reps if you have a decent length hill near you that you can repeatedly ride up to get your legs used to it.

by cramping I mean like to the point I can't stand up hardly.

Hmm.. this sounds odd. What exactly do you mean by cramping? Because to me, cramp is sudden maximum muscle seizure. It sounds like you are referring to something that can be milder or worse.. which isn't the case with cramp afaik. If I had cramp in both quads I'd be screaming on the floor.

It's like I'm bonking, but with my quads giving in first.

Cramp is absolutely nothing like bonking at all.

Are you taking it easy at the beginning or going hell for leather from the off?

I personally dont buy in to any of the electrolyte stuff but I do know that if I go seriously into the red early in a ride my legs will just not be in any fit state to get me home later - Im talking of 3-6h in the saddle here, I dont think a 2h spin matters as much

Also if its just x1 ride at the weekend then I dont think that will do as much for your fitness either
Can you sneak in a flat out 30-60 min blast midweek? I find this very beneficial once or twice a week as well as a long one at the weekend

EDIT: a long process of education lead to me using a heart rate strap on my Garmin and now I can accurately say when I am overdoing it and when I need to take it easy, not as reliable as power but more affordable for me and very useful in winding down to protect me from getting in trouble later

[i]fairly fit.[/i]

become more than "fairly" fit?

I'd disagree with stumpy01, I suspect the issue is that you're getting one ride a week which doesn't give much chance for you to actually get much benefit from it.

Try and get out for shorter rides when you can fit them in, and keep up the one longer ride. You'll get far stronger from the in between rides, rather than just taking a battering once a week.

I only got out once a week for a little while, and it felt absolutely brutal every time compared to taking the odd extra half hour's exercise when I could. I now ride to work every day (30-45 mins each way depending on route/wind) and bigger rides are definitely massively easier due to this, even though the maximum length of my usual rides can be shorter than it used to be due to other commitments.

Thanks Molgrips.

By cramping, I'm meaning that the quads in my thighs (looking at a picture of the human anatomy it seems like the Vastus Madialis and the Rectus Femoris muscles, although I'm no doctor) spasm and tense.

I'll be riding and just before it happens there will be a few warning twinges first, then I'll use that group of muscles a bit more (perhaps now climbing a bit harder) and they will suddenly tense up to the point I have to stop and get off the bike, at which point I can hardly stand up. It is really painful (you know when you get cramp in your toes/feet, well it's like that but much worse).

Agreed, cramping is not bonking, but it happens when I'm starting to get fatigued.

Try spinning more,if you are doing lots of stop start in high gears I find this can 'pump' up your legs.

I get this on long (>3 hours) rides. Exactly when it happens will depend on how much effort I've put in.

Physio mate reckons it's a magnesium problem, and the electrolyte drinks are not enough to replenish what has been used.

You can store up magnesium, so maybe try having the drinks in the week when you're not exercising.

EDIT: I should point out that an unrelated injury has meant I haven't tried out this theory yet...

Thanks for feedback above.

Currently I'm generally doing two or three 12-14 mile rides a week, with the odd 25 miler thrown in now and again

Sounds like to avoid this you'll just have to back off a little - I get similar occasionally (but not quite so severely) in my calves. Certainly don't give it the beans when you're feeling twinges already.

That said, if you can increase your fitness, then your pace backed off a little will be the same as going flat out now.

I'm definitely an electrolyte skeptic. But try others advice and if it works great. In my opinion cramp for most people is a fitness thing. If you get cramp it doesn't mean you are unfit, it just means you aren't as fit as you need to be to sustain whatever effort you are making. Pro roadies with team chefs, nutrition sponsors and massages still get cramp when they push real hard (Shut up legs!).

My suggestion would be to work on pacing and fitness. Pacing will let you ride further. It sounds like you are going out too hard a pace you cannot sustain. Start slower and you'll be able to go further. In long endurance races I tend to drop a gear from what I would normally consider comfortable in order that I can finish strong. In time trials I've actually found I get better times when I start off slow and build speed to the end compared to going all out and fading.

Fitness is a tricky one. There is a good book out there called the time crunched cyclist. I read it but it got too involved in training plans which I find very tedious. I enjoy riding for its own sake and am not big on hill reps and the like as I get bored. However, what works for me is basically going full gas on shorter rides. You end up with a natural interval session depending on gradient and technicality of the trail. Lots of short sharp hard rides will improve your overall endurance.

While I'm skeptical on electrolytes, one thing that I do find important is getting enough food and water. If you are hungry you can't ride as well. If you are close to bonking then cramp is more likely. This doesn't mean you need magic potions - you just need to eat things you can chew and digest while riding. In races for me this is specialist products but in normal riding - I tend to use normal cheaper food (potatoes, sarnies, cereal bars, bananas.).

Thanks again for feedback.

Sounds like I need to train more and get fitter, as well as perhaps back of the gas a little bit earlier in rides (however that isn't always possible)

I guess one of the questions I should have asked at the beginning is - I go out riding with a bunch of riders who are 20 years younger than me, but do less MTB riding week-to-week (millage wise) generally than me and they seem to have better endurance, which doesn't seem to make sense to me. does age make 'that' much difference?

I'll be riding and just before it happens there will be a few warning twinges first, then I'll use that group of muscles a bit more (perhaps now climbing a bit harder) and they will suddenly tense up

I get this on the inside of my thigh after long rides. But only when my fitness is down and I havne't done many long rides. I was told by a coach that it was down to over-use - i.e. longer rides than I was used to, and the solution is to man up, train more for longer, and you'd get used to it. Experience seems to bear that out.

Just do a long hard ride at least once a month. And long means 30 miles + and hard.

i've been suffering with the exact same problem, i can vouch how painful cramp in the quads is

the issue has been a long time coming, first time i experienced it was after a particually hard (and hot) week in the alps, so dehydration and loss of salts could be a factor (but so could the 30,000ft climbing in a week!)

they can go into spasm really quickly, pretty much ok on the bike, but hill walking can set it off

Using a foam roller really helped, so i've taken this to the next level and started to get treatment, first thing i discovered was my quads had flipping great trigger points (basically knots and scarring), deep tissue massage and specific stretches (the type you need someone qualified to do) are a BIG help, also recently had acupuncture in the effected areas (again - a huge help). Continuing to get treatment, suspect it will take quite a few sessions to get my legs sorted but i'm just relived it's getting sorted

Email is in my profile, please feel free to contact me if you want to know more (or if you are in the somerset area, a recommended specialist)

oh, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with fitness

I was doing a lot of miles, including specific training schedules - so plenty fit, but they can be triggered by the most casual walk

Suffered from exactly the same thing and found out that if I had a banana mid ride the cramp feeling at the back end of the ride disappeared, I believe it could be something to do with potassium levels but it worked far better than any sports drink etc for me..

What percentage of the time do you spend standing up? Try to develop a good standing technique to keep a nice steady pace for around 20% of the ride and see if that helps. IMHO bloodflow can often be a problem.

And you want to be riding 3x30 mins or something in the week, with a good 5 mins of warm-up before any "beasting".

Started to write post, but Jonba has said everything I wanted to say.

Also, make sure you warm up properly - not jump on the bike and power straight up a steep hill for 20 mins!

Spend some time at home doing anything that will get your muscles warm - even some star jumps, jogging on the spot for 20 mins, then some stretches. I'm sat in an office/car/train most of the day, if I don't do this I can get bad cramps on long rides. Not had an issue since being careful about warming up.

Do some longer slower rides and drink more water.
Oh and as nobody has said it yet.... MTFU

Oh and as nobody has said it yet.... MTFU

I was waiting for that one cloudnine 🙂 (I'll continually repeat aloud next time it happens, shouting above the pain, MTFU!, MTFU! it'll give any passing walkers something to think about)

I'm in my early 30s so not exactly the best comparison but I do two to three 10 mile intensive (fast XC rides with a good mix of climbing and technical descending, averaging around 12-13mph) lunchtime rides a week.

I used to cramp up on longer weekend rides, especially in the cold, but I've found that after starting to push myself on my shorter lunchtime rides I don't have any problems on longer rides any more.

i suffer something very similar to the OP. on a few club rides now ive been on the floor crying. Not a good look.

I think my issue is fitness but im interested to hear what others have said

I get similar - well used to, it was normally if I'd ridden a few days then had a few off then tried to ride again. Horrible pain, would cut a ride short like that.

It was the same time as a lot of knee pain, so a cleat fit and a change in riding style along with a switch to 170mm cranks ironed the knees out, and foam roller ing also helped. When the knees sorted themselves out the quads followed suit.

Now, it only occurs if I stay still, I.e. Driving for several hours and then excersise or if I go hard for several days then have a rest. In 6 months its occurred once, after several weeks biking in France, I had a rest week before an alpine mtb marathon, started to twinge on the way back from that and then when I rode the next day it flared up but I managed to push through it so it's a lot milder.

Don't know if that helps you at all though! I think the foam roller on the quads, glutes and itb made a big difference to my upper legs.

Fwiw, the advice from the bike shop that fitted me was basically, 'cycling hard hurts. Man up!'

As an experiment try taking Rennie indigestion tablets, one of my friends who had a similar cramping problem was advised to try this and said it has really helped him. I guess it's down to the magnesium content in them.

Skydragan , the rides it happens on, do you feel you're going at your natural pace? Or are you riding at the groups pace which is too much for you over that duration?

If I've understood the description correctly, I get this but only in my left leg. That leg has issues with inadequate glute activation due to after-effects of a long ago knee injury. Basically, the glute isn't pulling its weight so the quad does too much work then gets pumped stupid. it's not exactly cramp, it's like a climber's forearms getting pumped but on a bigger scale. Suggestions above about training, stretching, hydration etc are all good but I would add glute activation and strengthening exercises to the list.

shouting above the pain, MTFU!, MTFU!

I appreciate that you may well be joking but it's worth bringing up. Cycling is meant to hurt only in certain ways. That ache in your quads when you're pushing too hard, that. Other kinds of pan like cramp, bad knees, bad backs, sore hands etc are indicative of problems and should be addressed.

When I've had the twinges pre-cramp I've stopped and massaged the muscles hard with knuckles, and it's helped loads. Pressing on would've resulted in cramp, agony, and long stops.

Knee pads were the root cause of cramp for me
Had the straps too tight

Skydragan , the rides it happens on, do you feel you're going at your natural pace? Or are you riding at the groups pace which is too much for you over that duration?

Happens sometimes solo riding as well as group or race situations. I tend to push my pace whenever i go out for a decent ride.

Do you have option of trying a different bike? Could be positioning or your kit. I don't get cramp these days unless I really push (around the 4hr mark). I've found my mtb shoes give me calf cramps, which I don't get on the road. I think the cleats are too far forward / saddle too high causing it. Btw I recommend not pushing through cramps. I did at last weekends torq and it has taken a week for the calves to stop hurting.

Agree with a lot of the comments re fitness having a bearing on cramps, however general hydration in normal life can have a huge impact when asking the body to go above what is normal. I ride and race a fair bit and know that the only time I will really suffer from cramp is either being dehydrated (not drinking enough in the past few days) or pushing just that bit too hard.
Loads of info re interval training to help re fitness if short of time, as said before need to mix it up as body adapts to certain stresses and caters for that stress.
Good luck and hope find a solution soon.

Maybe lay off the supplements and just have cheese and ham sarnies, with some pop and water to drink?

I'm pretty sure some people over do it with nonsense designer drinks sometimes.

Raise your saddle. I get similar issues when I realise my saddle has slipped or Im on a mates bike etc.

Loads of calculations for saddle height etc. but this is a start:

Put a book against the wall, between your legs, as if it were a saddle. Measure from the floor to the top of the book to get your inside leg measurement.

Input details here [url= http://www.ebicycles.com/bicycle-tools/saddle-height/mountain-bike ]saddle height calculator[/url]

Try it. I bet your saddle is way lower than this guide. It's by no means perfect, but offers a starting point. Free to try on your next ride.

I Had a similar thing happen last year just on my commute home, sudden, debilitating muscle spasm (cramp) in my left calf...

Asked on here and have tried a few things since, my conclusions (your experiences may be utterly different) I benefitted from adding a bit more protein to my diet (eggs and milk mostly), becoming a bit more disciplined about hydration during the day (riding or not I chug water all the time now), taking the odd bath to try and relax muscles, I have yet to try a sports massage but intend to do so. Plus getting the odd early night hasn't hurt...

its all aimed at muscle repair/recovery I don't know which measure, if any, of them are more effective but they all seem logical in their own right... No cramp since (touch wood).

Given how much research gets done in to athletic performance, the causes of cramp still aren't fully understood. Most articles on the subject begin with "The current line of thought is ..." 😕 So, the current line of thought is that the body isn't accustomed to the continued workload of doing a specific action for long periods of time and hence those muscles begin to get incorrect activation signals. Though quite why you get cramps when just lying in bed?

I become prone to cramps after about 7 or 8 hours of sustained activity: I've got it mountain biking, road biking and fell running. Not pleasant whatever. A good hydration strategy seems to work (for me) - a couple of years ago on the Etape du Dales I really concentrated on getting through the water I was carrying. I started to feel the first twinges as I approached Tan Hill but took time out there to sort it out and didn't have a problem for the rest of the ride. Post ride stretching and warm down is important too.

Whoever mentioned getting cramps on the inside of the thigh, I get those and it's due to incorrect muscle activation. Those muscles are the secondary, support, muscles and shouldn't be used for the main work. When I saw a physio about it, she reckoned it was due to an underlying hip problem and that my body was avoiding using the quads as a way of compensation. Certainly since I've had my hip sorted out I'm much less prone to cramps in those muscles.

The same as fun, there are different types of pain: type 1 pain (the burn you feel when hammering up a hill) is fine to push through; type 2 (back pain and other spasms including cramp) can be ridden through but need care and treatment; type 3 (debilitating) need medical attention ASAP.

[i]tend to push my pace whenever i go out for a decent ride.[/i]

There you go, you're not as fit as you need to be to be, to push the pace you want. A HRM will reveal where you are on an effort scale. it might be worth easing down a bit on some parts of the ride.

Though quite why you get cramps when just lying in bed?

Different stimuli cause cramp for different reasons?

Whoever mentioned getting cramps on the inside of the thigh, I get those and it's due to incorrect muscle activation

That was me, and it's an interesting idea. But like I say it only happens to me during long sustained efforts like endurance races, and only if I'm out of practice for them. Happened on Velothon Wales, where I wasn't in that great shape and it was road; didn't happen on Trans Cambria which was about 3x as long. The latter included plenty of standing up, moving around on the bikke, pushing and pausing for food etc though which probably helped.

The only other kind of cramp I get is after a long ride if I try and point my toe too much I get cramp in my calf. Hyper-contraction?

A HRM will reveal where you are on an effort scale

@molgrips

I get occasional cramp in the arch of my left foot, never the right, I have to concentrate and wiggle my toes to make it go away.

@skydragon

Work out your maximum heart rate(MHR) and your resting heart rate(RHR_. subtract RHR from MHR to find your working heart range (WHR). Whenever you see a percentage given as a target you add that percentage of your WHR to your RHR. So if your target range is 60%-70% and your RHR is 60 and your MHR is 180 you have a WHR of 120 and the figures are:

60 + (.6 x 120) = 132
60 + (.7 x 120) = 144

Note that 70% is usually taken as being close to your aerobic threshold, i.e. it's the level you can, in theory, maintain for a period of time. However you might want to try the next zone down, that is 50%-60%. It will seem very easy and you'll be tempted to push it especially if you are in a group so if you are zone riding it's best to do it alone and somewhere flat.

Interesting article in training peaks on cramp - http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/the-real-cause-of-muscle-cramps

@molgrips, I'm not prone to cramp but if I do get it, it'll be inner thigh too. Always thought it seemed an odd place for a cyclist to get cramp - get it a few times a year, usually in hilly races when I’m not used to racing ie start of the season or after a break from racing. However got a very similar sensation to cramp racing two weeks ago, turns out it was a slight strain due to my saddle height being too low but felt like cramp when it happened (standing up to sprint out of a corner for the 1000th time).

Another +1 for checking how much magnesium/electrolytes you're getting. I was getting horrendous leg/foot cramps after around 2 hours riding, even with electrolyte drinks/ gels. Turns out it was low magnesium (found because I also started getting chronic migraines), the drinks & gels just simply didnt replenish what I was using.

I do occasionally now get foot cramps still, but find if I do some extra stretching in between rides it disappears.

Good luck figuring out what it is, sounds pretty painful!!