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I have a monarch plus debonair rt3 on my new style nomad. Initially I just set the sag and rebound and it felt amazing when general riding and on really rough stuff at the dh tracks. But it always bottomed out really easily on drops Anything over around 10ft and the travel ring is right at the bottom, even when landing really smoothly. I spoke to the shop where I bought the bike who said I wouldn't damage it but I ended up blowing the shock and it was changed under warranty. With the new one I thought I should look at adding some bottomless tokens to try and reduce the bottom out but I don’t seem to be able to get it to feel right. I can either get it to feel really good at riding or not bottom out on big drops and jumps but not good at both. So far I have tried 2 tokens, 4 tokens and 6 tokens and various pressures along the way. I believe the shock can take 8 or 9 tokens so I still have some options.
I understand the logic of adding tokens but my line of thinking is that I'm asking too much of any shock to be good at general rough riding and also not bottom out on a 20ft jump.
Any advice other than keep playing?
Cheers
I'm asking too much of any shock to be good at general rough riding and also not bottom out on a 20ft jump.
I'm no expert but I think you've got your answer here
What you need is the new "Moon on a stick" shock.
I had a similar issue with an air shock - kept putting more air in to provide a stiffer spring to stop it bottoming. But this was at the expense of rebound / compression adjustment, which didn't cope with high pressures.
In the end I had to give up and go to a spring shock (CCDB) and fit a spring rate that suited my riding.
How I have it set at the moment with 6 tokens means I have to have the rebound as fast as it will go.
Excuse my ignorance but aren't coil shocks more linear than air shocks?
I'm asking too much of any shock to be good at general rough riding and also not bottom out on a 20ft jump.
I'm no expert but I think you've got your answer here
Plus the old adage that if you are not using all your travel during a run then you haven't got your shock set up correctly. That said you still need it to use all its travel in a controlled fashion.
You need bottom out/hsc for that sort of hit but also take a look through the gallery of guys taking decent sized hits on well set up dh bikes 😉 some shocks will do it better, some will be coil some will be air. Maybe have a word with one of the tuners
It never felt like it was an uncontrolled bottom out. I cant actually say I ever noticed anything other than the travel ring being right at the bottom. I just thought it cant be good for the shock to keep bottoming out like that. When the shock blew it wasn't a bottom out that caused it. I used the climb switch for the first time and when I flicked it back the shock went all notchy and lumpy. It could be completely unrelated to bottoming out. I asked the shop if they knew what had happened to the old one but the return notes from sram just said it had been replaced.
Is it bottoming out harshly? 10' to a reasonable landing shouldn't be too harsh, neither should a 20' jump assuming that's distance not height.
Have a word with Chris porter, from what I've read of reviews form the geometron etc he likes his suspension to not bottom out ever.
If you're not feeling it bottom out harshly or buck/rebound nastily then it sounds like it's pretty well set up. I'm sure some kind of fancy custom tune would sort it if you needed to - a shim stack which adds lot of compression damping at high shaft velocities deeper into the travel is what's needed but whether that's cost effective is debatable!
The height of a drop or size of a jump isn't a great yardstick because it depends on how smooth the landing is - a much smaller drop to flat will bottom a shock more easily than something big with a steep landing. The highest thing I've been off locally is about 8' to a steep landing and it only uses about 2/3 of my shock travel but I regularly huck off a 3-4' flat drop on the way to work and that uses the lot!
one_happy_hippy - MemberPlus the old adage that if you are not using all your travel during a run then you haven't got your shock set up correctly.
It's total mince, o'course. You need to set your suspension up for the biggest hits so unless every run has that biggest hit, you either need to constantly adjust, or you won't use the travel.
<stealth willy waving> I do big jumps <stealth willy waving>
One of the bigger jumps I hit is this one. It’s a nice smooth landing and I don’t think I land it too badly.
There are bigger doubles and gaps I do but I don't have any videos to hand.
I don't really like messing with my forks and shocks. I normally set and forget which I have done with the fox 36's on the front and pretty much and fork or shock I have had in the past.
smooth yes I'd be surprised to bottom out the shock on that
Me too. You barely know you have landed. There are others which are smaller with harsher landings but again I have never felt a harsh bottom out.
i'd speak to somewhere to try and get it tuned maybe. or its new shock time... 🙂 as running it as you are i wouldnt be massively happy with that
So you bottom out but down feel it? Probably not as much of a problem, I do mine on big hits on the rides where I either run out of travel on a long repeated hit section or on a big landing to flat.
I don't think have never felt a bottom out on this shock. I have had forks and shocks when you know without doubt that you have bottomed but the only tell tail on this shock is the travel indicator ring.
But seeing as I have broken one already I would rather avoid doing again potentially out of warranty.
I was expecting it to be a moon on a stick question but thought It worth asking just in case.
Would a shock like the Fox X2 help having more tunable compression?
Bump.
Would a shock like the Fox X2 help having more tunable compression?
Yep. You can add high speed compression damping. If you want to setup the Monarch in the same way, you'll need to send it off.
You sound like you either need a custom tune, or a shock with the ability to tune it externally - so Fox X2, Vivid Air/coil, Ohlins etc...
Sounds like a good excuse for an X2 then!
That also implies that bottoming out is a bad thing which ultimately I'm not that convinced it is. Your shock failed but that could be for any number of reasons. Would you be happy you see the other ring 1mm from the end of the shift?
Ditch the Sram shock, they're shit. All mine have shat themselves regularly.
Pick up a Float X2 or a coil depending on your leverage ratio, stick an absaloute arse tonne of spacers in it if it is the air version so that you have some bottom out resistance. If you have a progressive leverage ratio, the coil will do. Coils often have a tiny bit more traction as well, that can sometimes make up for a small increase spring rates.
Job jobbed, monarchs are just poor when it comes to balancing support with traction.
BTW - nice riding. That was smooth, you shouldn't be bottoming that.
Thanks everyone.
Hopefully I'm riding tonight so I will try the rest of my volume spacers and see if it makes any difference. After that it might be X2 time.