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I burnt all my marches last weekend. I’m hoping for a miracle recovery this week for what will be the hardest 100 yet for me. If I get under five hours I’ll be pleased! And the following weekend is a 12 hr TT.
Renton find abat you like eating. I found peanut and cashews
Thanks for all of the replies chaps
I'm pretty sure there are feeding stations on the way round so that should help .
I went out on my MTB yesterday. Nothing hard just a ride into the local town with my two boys.
My ass was killing. Even though I have the same saddle on my road and MTB I couldn't get comfy !
I've got a few rides planned over the next few weeks to build the milage so will experiment with food .
I know I'm never going to be a racing snake but would like to think that all this riding is helping me get fitter and also lose weight
Fyi 6 foot 1 and just under 17.5 stone.
Which means like I said, no big turns on the front trying to hold 25mph out of London!
You will, though, won't you? You know you will. 😀
Shhhh!!
all this riding is helping me get fitter and also lose weight
you should be getting fitter, you'll only be losing weight if you aren't overeating.
when i look back at when I was solely a mtb rider I realise that a ride was actually a 3 - 4 hour sugary eating frenzy punctuated with the odd climb followed by another rest and a flapjack. Not until I started road riding, when there isn't really obvious breaks whilst you wait for your mates did I start losing weight and realise I was eating wayyyyy too much. At one point I went to the GP because I stared worrying about my weight lose - I was dropping around 1kg a week, down from 80ish to a slightly froomesk 72 at 5 11. GP pointed out that despite me eating everything I could, and not feeling hungry, that 15hrs cycling a week was quite a lot and start monitoring calories in / out.
your first century is a bit of a milestone, once you've done it you will be loads more confident on taking on bigger challenges.
Having spouted "Advice" at the OP a few days ago and myself not having done a century or any big rides for quite a while I thought it might be worth trying some of what I had suggested myself (moderating effort/speed) just to see how my endurance actually measures up, this was done with minimal/no proper preparation as follows...
Me: 38 / 5'10" / 85kg
Bike: ~10kg Carbon jobbie with 25mm Conti GPs (80psi Rear/70psi Front)
My Typical rides over the last month or so (on the road bike) have been evening rides of around 35 miles at around 17mph avg taking a couple of hours, Avg Hr of around 152bpm, I've been getting through about 1 - 1.5L of water and haven't taken any additional food or water additives...
The Preceding 24hrs "preparation": Home from work ~ 18:00 Hrs, Ate meal of fishcakes, corn on the cobb, New potatoes, and had 2 slices of toast ~10:00 Hrs, Late to bed at ~12:30.
The following Morning Rushed about, Skipped Breakfast, had a Cereal bar, apple and a couple of carrots as snacks through the day, Lunch was a packet of instant Noodles, knocked off early at 16:45 got home and was out on the bike about 17:30.
The ride: My goal was to try and follow my own advice and stick to a sensible HR, target an Avg speed of 15mph, cover at least 50 miles and then assess my physical state and whether or not I felt I had anything left in the tank, much like the OP did a week or so ago. I took one Cranberry cereal bar and a Soreen lunch box thingy as these were spare in the cupboard, I set off with 1.75L of water. the route was moderately flat with a few hills total climbing was 2684<abbr title="feet">ft</abbr>
I made the same basic mistake everyone does and set off at what felt like a "Comfortable Pace" by about 6 miles in I was averaging 17mph but my HR was staying in Z2 and even dipping into Z1 on descents.
From there I let the avg speed drop to ~15mph, it went a little under to around 14.6 following a few climbs and came back up with flats and descending, I ate the cereal bar at about 18:50hrs and the soreen at 19:45, I then spotted a Tesco and ducked in for a banana and a pack of jelly babies, at this point I'd covered ~ 35 miles.
I got to ~40 miles and felt fresh so I set off on an additional loop I guestimated would be about 15 miles my Avg on the Garmin at this point was bob on 15mph, however I could tell I was beginning to tire slightly as my HR was going between High Z2 and low Z3 and recoving HR on descents or coasting seemed to take longer, despite this I decided this last loop could be run at a bit harder (partly to try and beat the sunset), So my HR for the last hour and a half was a bit higher. As it turns out my last section was actually 20miles and my HR was now touching Z4 on some of the flats but I was comfortable...
I finally got home inside of 4 hours, at an Average of 15.3mph and avg HR of 148bpm, when I got back I reckon I probably still had another 15-20 (flatish) miles in my legs if I'd stocked up on more water and found something more to eat. I think also going the harder for last 20 miles had a noticeable effect, I was expending more energy than necessary and let the pacing and HR management slip again.
Really it was the middle 30 or so miles that let me get round comfortably, If I'd stuck to a marginally lower pace closer to 14.8 - 15mph throughout I'd probably have kept my HR down to ~145ish and probably be able to go for much longer (distance wise), at 15mph avg 100miles would take just under 6hrs:40mins, ~14.3mph avg you'd be on for about 7hrs...
Lessons Learned: Start slower, pay more attention to managing pace and HR, prepare better with diet and sleep over the preceding 24-48hrs...
I might just rest up a bit tonight/tomorrow and use some spare time I have on Saturday morning to see if I can improve and hit a steady 75-80 miles at the same pace...
Good summary.....
I visualize the effort to output graph as effectively two pieces. Z1 and Z2 are an increasing gradient line, the more effort (higher HR) you put in, the faster (more power) you go all other things being equal. It's not linear, particularly solo riding as above a certain speed the majority of extra effort to raise your speed goes into overcoming wind resistance, but broadly speaking and within reason, the harder you work the faster you go. But it's sustainable.
Z3, is the same but the curve starts to pick up more notably. Obvious statement but if my threshold HR is at 83% of max (roughly) it's harder but still sustainable riding at 80% than it is at 75% even though they're both in the same Z3 band.
Once you hit Z4 - and it is literally crossing that barrier from 140bpm to 145bpm for me - that starts to feel hard, and rather than the curve just steepening further, it's a point of inflexion. At this point even just a little bit faster means a lot more effort, and that is the effort that burns matches and eventually makes you bonk.
I did similar to you when i was training for a 12hr MTB solo, plus reading quite a lot about it too. I was quite amazed how much difference even dropping half a mph made and if I stayed at around 135bpm, I could ride for hours.
But also be warned; while it's good to know that number (as i suggested above) and to stay below it when you can, if all you do is ride in that band you don't get better. In fact, i think my overall riding went backwards, because I became very good at riding steadily at that pace and nothing else. Hence you have to know the number, but train hard for at least some of it, to increase your power which has impacts in all bands - stands to reason that if you get muscularly stronger then your output even at the same 80% effort level will be higher.
Which finally is why i reckon the pros have it easy. When they climb a big hill, they'll be at a certain effort level. Me too, on a % basis. The difference is they'll have to sustain that for say 30 minutes to reach the top, whereas i'd have to do it for 60 😉
But also be warned; while it’s good to know that number (as i suggested above) and to stay below it when you can, if all you do is ride in that band you don’t get better. In fact, i think my overall riding went backwards, because I became very good at riding steadily at that pace and nothing else. Hence you have to know the number, but train hard for at least some of it, to increase your power which has impacts in all bands – stands to reason that if you get muscularly stronger then your output even at the same 80% effort level will be higher.
Duly noted, I'd say yesterdays effort was roughly 55-60% "Managed pacing" and there was some benefit in terms of being able to cover distance, but I'll continue to do shorter, higher effort rides too, much due to time constraints as anything else...
TBH, it's not something I've ever done properly before, so I wanted to see if I could actually manage pace and work rate myself...
I've ridden a couple of centuries, done a few 70 - 80 mile rides and some back to back 2x75mile days, but I've never paced myself properly for any of these, and I've generally finished a bit knackered each time, usually bonked and in survival mode for the last 10-15 miles of any distance efforts over 70 odd miles.
It just struck me that while I was handing out my wonderfully insightful advice to the OP about pacing, it was advice I've never actually followed myself, so it seems a bit rich for me to start offering suggestions that seem logical but which I've never followed for myself... So I'm going to try it for myself.
The other thing I took from what I did yesterday is that the pretty abysmal preparation, not enough sleep and attrocious diet didn't seem to prevent me covering the distance, I think if I'd upped the whole ride avg to ~16mph I'd have bonked around 40-45 miles, admittedly I ingested plenty of refined sugar during the last 25 miles, had I done that throughout I could have gone faster, but I'm not sure it would have been sustainable for much beyond the 60 miles covered.
Thinking longer term I'm a good 6kg (1 stone) into the 'overweight' band (on BMI) which I need to address sooner rather than later. So some of the stuff posted earlier in this thread did also prompt me to go look at Fat adaptation, amongst other dietary change options, TBH that seems like quite a commitment and not something you'd choose to do midway through the summer with a lots of riding on the horizon; it seems it would take at least a month to change the way you process food and transition away from running on Carbs/sugar to Fat/Protein, but I can see the potential benefits of such a change in diet, especially if it ultimately it helps to shed weight and corespondingly improve speed and endurance... But as a recommendation for the OP, who is preparing for an event in under a month, I can't see it being a good idea, moderate carb intake down when not exercising fine, maybe try taking on more protein after exercise to aid recovery, but a whole sale shift to fat adaptation isn't a good idea under these circumstances (IMO)...
I did the nottingham wheeler 100 last week and ate the following.
Ride to 1st stop: 1 small packet of harribo, 1 bottle of power bar go stuff
1st top: 1 slice of flapjack, 1 slice of cake, half a bannana.
Ride to second stop: 1 bottle of sis orange (whats provided by organisers), 1 packet of haribo, 1 cliff choc bar, 1 gel.
Second stop: slice of toffey cake, slice of flapjack, half a bananna
Ride to third stop: 1 cliff bar, 2 sis gels, 1 packet of harribo, 1 bottle of horrid sis lemon and lime
Third stop: 2 slices of toffey cake, 1 slice of flapjack
Ride to finish: 1 bottle of powerbar go stuff started with.
Plan was try to eat little and offten not to have loads at a feed station and digest it all on the ride.
Pace was ok (avareaged about 18mph in a group) till any hill then just dropped to a crawl, i dont mind hills just slow.
I'm 6'6" about 98kg garmin says burned 7800 calries and didn't drink enough and took about 6.5 hrs on a pick and flick with 35's on. I would have like somthing not sugary to eat so will be packing sandwiches next time.
Out of interest where do people fill bottles up on solo 100 milers? I wouldn't want to leave bike outside a shop and taking a is adding a huge chunk of weight.
For water in Switzerland you have lots of fountains in most villages/ towns.
some areas of France have this too but some water isn’t drinkable.
This do sn5 help you but thought I’d mention it 🙂
in the uk I stop at shares and take a hiplok combo with me. Small, lightweight, cheap and secure.
Just to follow on .....
As a recap : me aged 42 . I'm 6 foot 1 and weigh 112 kgs so I'm what's classed as a fat bastard .
Today I went out and did 66.5 miles in 4 hours and 5 mins at an AVG of 15.8 . 2850 feet climbing .
The first 30 miles I averaged 17.5 and didn't feel as though I was trying bit slowed anyway.
To say I'm knackered would be a fair assumption. My legs are sore but I don't have a head ache.
I couldn't do any more though . The last 10 miles were horrendous .What's made it worse is the pad in my shirts has started to rub a bit which wasn't pleasant.
Over the ride I drunk 6 bottles of various drinks from plain water to sis go (I think) . I also had three gels, one tuna sandwich, two mini pork pies and a nutri grain bar.
I don't think the heat has helped either !!
Any thoughts .
6x750ml bottles of fluid? If so, that's a lot, but then if you were out during the ~1100-1500 time window in this weather, it's not surprising.
I suspect your bike picnic could be improved, I'd be more inclined to eat a tuna sandwich and mini pork pies after the ride, but take more food that your body can quickly digest, such as a handful of Jelly Babies (one every ~20mins or so after you've been riding at a moderate pace for ~90mins). And/or replace the sandwich filling for something like sugary like jam, honey etc.
This heat combined with little wind is absolutely brutal. I horribly overslept this morning to a disgusting ~0900 after feeling like death warmed up when my alarm went off at 0530, which wrote off the prospect of any power training up hills today, again! Even with 2.7 litres of water on the bike, I'm not going to choose to go out in the "midday sun" and do a moderately paced 25-50 miler, if I've not paid to take part in a sportive/event.
Solo?
Firstly - your numbers don't quite add up - 4:05 at 15.8 is 64.5 miles. You're underestimating your overall average - 66.5/4:05 is 16.3mph which is a very decent average for solo over rolling terrain.
That said 17.5mph for the first 30 miles (1.75 hours) is pretty decent speed, to sustain that extra 1.2mph takes quite a lot more effort and I'm not surprised if that wasn't sustainable and you suffered later. It means the second 36.5 took 2:20 = 15.6mph which is still quite decent.
I'd again come back to the ideas previous - if that 17.5mph in the first bit meant you were going too far into the red too often, then once that effort is spent you haven't got the legs to deal with the inclines in the same way on the second half. Yes, you had food and drink going in but you can't replenish the energy stores (glycogen) that you need to sustain workloads above threshold. Could you have sustained a conversation for most of that first 2 hours or so?
It's the way our systems work..... yes you did 4 hours at 16.3 average, but really you did 2 at 17.5 and then 2 at 15.5. I bet if you'd done 16.5 all through you'd feel different now - or you might have done 16.5/16.5/16.5 and then 17.5 because you still had some of that good stuff left to burn near the end, and ended up with a higher overall as a result.
Just had another look at Strava .
66.6 miles .4 hours 12 mins .
My ass was killing. Even though I have the same saddle on my road and MTB I couldn’t get comfy !
Not that surprising. You tend to sit more vertical on a MTB than on a road bike where you should be leaning towards the front - lying "along" the saddle almost. Road and MTB saddles are shaped accordingly. FWIW the pads in road short/bib-shorts and MTB liners are often different for the same reason. Of course, it's more important to find something that you, as an individual, are comfortable with but don't assume the same equipment best satisfies both roles.
I'd also echo what's been said about speed. I'd slow down a bit at the start, pace yourself to the ride in hand. If you get round a 100 miler at 15mph you'll not be last and it'll be a good starting point for improvement.
That ties in with your 15.8 average, but it also means that your second 36.6 miles took 2:28 which is 14.8mph so a really substantial drop off - and I'd expect it wasn't an even 14.8 either, (you said you crawled the last 10 miles)
So even more the perils of going too fast too soon and burning your matches
Renton, is this your ride? https://www.strava.com/activities/1751492917/analysis/5750/8829
If so, there's no HRM or power meter data, but the estimated power for your third hour was a notable increase. Considering the ride started with a ~400 foot incline including a cat4, the estimated power numbers suggest you resisted the temptation to go bananas, which is not always easy at the start of a ride if your legs feel good.
What was your heart rate. If you haven't bought a monitor yet you aren't serious about getting any better or learning what you can and can't do. They are cheap
From the info you have posted you went out too fast and were not riding at a sustainable pace. You've eaten toomuch, and yes it's hot but that's a lot of liquid.
If I get a half decent nights sleep I'll be doing a flatish 50 tomorrow setting off 9ish after 4 bits of toast and jam. I'll take 2 750 bottles and expect to take on one gel riding at around 156b pm \ 200-220w depending how I feel I may have a crack (aka burn a match) at some climbs. I'll finish around 3 to 3.hr a d depending on wind thirsty and ready for a decent lunch which will be a three egg omlete a can of tuna and a naked bar.
note I do not mention speed at all, it's basically irrelevant for training purposes. I don't even have speed on my garmjns s training profile.
God this forum is awful for trying to edot
So just as an update.....
The ride I was doing was yesterday over in Norfolk.
It was a good ride but bloody windy which sapped a lot of energy .
I managed it in just under 7 hours which for me I'm well impressed with .my legs were shot from 85 miles but I dug in and managed the full 100 (it was actually 104 😁) .
I wore some brand new Rivelo Honister shorts and used chamois cream which helped to start with bit I've still ended up a little sore. I may need to invest in a proper road saddle instead of a charge spoon .
Cheers all.
Well the big question, what did you eat?
Ah yes... I had a bottle of water with a tab in every 25 mikes .
Nothing really for breakfast 😱
4 X sis gels
1 cliff bar
2 packs of shot blocs
A few jelly babies
1 nutri grain bar
1 ham sandwich
Plus 1.5 litres of water afterwards and in the evening .
Not surprised you were goosed at 85 miles then.
Did a 60 mile ride today. Struggled the last 10 miles.
I had the following:
2 x 750 ml bottles of water with SIS electrolyte powder in
2 x SIS gels (one with caffeine)
1 x SIS energy bars
lunch which was a sausage roll and choc muffin 40 miles in (prob not the best idea!)
topped up my water bottle at lunch and put a zero tab in
got back and drank 1.5 litres of water, a SIS recovery shake and a large cup of tea.
Think I need to add some more energy gels in. They are easy to take and seem to work. Also the SIS products are horrible. Much prefer the high 5 products (got a mix pack of SIS to try). Also there shake is made with milk but the SIS one with water which isn’t the nicest.
burnt off 3600 calories apparently.
Some decent nutricious food is what you need, not more daft energy gels. And that calorie burn is nonsense too, Strava perchance? Or it's exaggerating buddy, Garmin connect?... 😊
Nobeer.... I wish I had ate more to be honest .I could have done another ham sandwich .
I also had half a flapjack 😁
Renton, think of it as a fire.
You need to get a roar on, plenty fuel at the start and then little and often to keep it going. If you try and add huge amount of fuel, you'll dampen the fire down. Wait too long and add little bits, the fires gonna die down.
I love big plate of scrambled eggs on toasted bagels and plenty coffee before I ride, I'd have less for going running, but I can get away with it biking.
Need to find what works for you mate.
The timing sucked to be honest to get anything decent on board for brekbreak .
The people doing the 100 mile ride were sat off between 8 and 9 .
I was told there would be a catering van set up doing baps etc which I planned to have as the restaurant in the hotel we stayed in didn't open until 8 .
I think in the end I had a cup of coffee and a pack of belvita biscuits. Plus a protein shake.
Well done for doing it Renton. Don't abandon the saddle yet, wearing new shorts for the ride could easily be the issue.
This thread was useful for me a few weeks ago when I decided to do The Dunwich Dynamo then ride home, 180 miles in total. My previous longest was 110 miles and I hadn't done over 65 miles in the past year. I took it easy and did many stops for proper food. Felt fine afterwards, just tired from lack of sleep.
Last weekend I did 75 miles mixed road / off-road on my gravel bike. I underfueled for that and it wiped me out for days.
Well done Renton,
You need to plan your breakfast. At worst you could have had a porridge you just add water to and throw in a banana, some nuts etc
Sounds like you just ignored all the advice <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> 😂</span>
What did you eat the night before?
And is the bike a keeper?
Thanks.
To be honest I'm sure it is the saddle as I've done rides in three different pairs of shorts and I've rubbed in the same place in all three.
Without getting to graphic it's rubbed and now sore on the bit between my sack and bum and also a bit down each leg .
Cheers damascus 😂
Bike is strangely enough a keeper .Dare I say it but despite the pain and feeling knakcered I enjoyed it yesterday .
I had a good sized fish and chips (lots of carbs then) the night before and plenty of fluids
Well done Renton. If I’m honest, that’s less than I’d eat and you are 33% more than me! Three weetabix or a large porridge is always a go to for breakfast. Very slow carb release. One gel per hour, blocks to chew, and maybe 2-3 sis bars mixed in with a banana . You did just fine.
For longer and faster rides I eat tuna and rice or cold porridge with apple. 282 miles in 12 hours is my best this year. I ate a lot!
Good work fella, I had hoped you'd post and say you'd done it...
This thread has also prompted me to look at my own routine and think more about training and diet, so cheers.
Are you planning on doing more similar rides? Or is that it for the foreseeable?
Oh and to do it in under 7 hours you'll have avg'd ~15mph so dropping the pace wasn't the worst advice... 😉
Cheers cookeaa.
Im going to carry on instead of stopping .however I need to get a few things sorted first before I attempt that sort of distance again .
I need to get a saddle sorted and also perhaps I need to look at some proper road bike shoes and pedals instead of my clumpy Shimano DX pedals and shoes 😁
We had no choice to drop the average speed... Bloody wind did that for us 👍
Well done!
If you are doing a lot of long distance road rides then it's worth getting a bike fit as you spend most of your time in one or two positions.
I think the best modification to your eating I could give from your description of what you ate is eat a big breakfast. It's far easier to eat then ride than to try to do both at once!
Sounds like you did well though, nice one.
If the food you're eating during the ride tastes pleasant to you, keep going with it. I find cake more palatable than gels, and also that a packet of fig rolls in the back pocket is easy to access on the move and quite edible.
Graeme O'bree recommended a block of marzipan on the basis that if someone launches a sprint you can put it in your cheek and carry on eating it later.
Glad to see you at least interspersed it with a sarnie.