[Closed] Help me fuel for a 100mile ride please

Very rough rule = 1g carbs for every kg of bodyweight / hour.  2 gels = 40g carbs so not surprising you ran out of fuel.

Your bloodstream contains enough 'fuel' to last 1-2 hours, depending on how hard you're going, but you really need to start refuelling every 20 minutes to keep yourself topped-up otherwise if your blood-suger drops, you bonk / hit-the-wall/ fringale or whatever you want to call it.

You can chose how you take those carbs, either energy drink or solid food, but complex carbs / starchy foods are better than pure sugars.

Cheers.

6 hours on after the ride and I still feel crap  and have a headache

Big fry up in the morning. Big pub lunch. Couple of pints of beer. Big evening meal in the pub with more beer.

That worked for 100 mile days doing lejog.

Big fry up in the morning. Big pub lunch. Couple of pints of beer. Big evening meal in the pub with more beer.

That worked for 100 mile days doing lejog.

This

In all seriousness, ride slower. It's not a race. Backing off 2mph, at least one bottle an hour, and as much real food - flapjacks, sandwiches, as you can carry/fit in a top tube bag/buy in shops and pubs on the way round

What you eat before is much, much more important. With that in mind, my 100 mile fuelling is:

Big bowl of porridge or similar and maybe an omelette and hour or 2 before.

Energy bar 45 mines before the start.

2, maybe 3 gels to take as and when, always with 1 caffeinated one for the last 20 miles.

Something a bit more substantial around half way, Soreen is good, a pork pie works as well, as does a dirty pasty.

And that’s it, eat well before and you’ll get away without the real food if pushed and the gels are to take as needed.

Big fry up in the morning. Big pub lunch. Couple of pints of beer. Big evening meal in the pub with more beer.

That worked for 100 mile days doing lejog.

This

Spot the northers 🙂

Just practise eating on rides, museli bars, flap jack, bananas are good. Try using energy powder in water but run it about half the recommended strength then on the ride itself have a couple of energy bars and gels in you pockets. Use the gels in the second half but try to keep eating regularly. Something every 20 mins as suggested just vary what you eat

100 miles. say 4/5/60kcal a mile, so 4/5/6000 kcals = eat what the bloody hell you like! cheeseburgers and beer all the way round! 😆

Well fed and watered day before and a decent breakfast, ideally porridge type. On the ride eat proper food regularly - banana, jam sandwich, fruit loaf etc. Gels work for some, and are not required by most.

A recent ride of that distance was as follows:

Breakfast. Coffee and croissant. Too hungover for anything else.

Mid morning. Coffee and pastry

Lunch. Three course meal, one pint of beer and one pint of Cider.

Mid afternoon. Half pint beer.

Late afternoon. Half pint beer.

Evening after finish. Pasta salad and pint of cider.

You're welcome.

Just keep eating and drinking, pretty much whatever you like.

I've done a few solo 140 odd mile rides and shot blocks work well for me while I'm trundling along and you don't have as much sticky rubbish to deal with (puts me right off gels!)

I normally have a load of sandwiches on me plus the obligatory malt loaf, then I'll stop at a pub at about 80-90 miles and get proper minimum card spend tourettes at the bar, beer, coke, just about every flavour of crisps and nuts that they've got.

Tip tip: don't try and eat shot blox dehydrated 🤣🤣

A proper sit down meal would almost always be welcome but I've always been on a schedule to meet the family the other end.

as others have mentioned certain people get on better with certain types of food, so with the time/rides you've got left try experimenting with different bars/gels/drinks & see what works best for you. I can smash down sis go bars & electroyte for 10hours with no ill effects, while others would be pretty ill

in this mid to upper 20s heat I'd definitely suggest more fluid intake. that'll also make a massive difference to after ride headaches & reducing cramps. little & often during the ride. plan places to top up mid ride.

as obvious as it sounds, stay off alcohol at least the night before

I get the beer, sit down meals etc when you’re touring but if it’s a hard n fast 100 I couldn’t think of anything worse.

I usually go with SIS energy bars and whatever gells I happen to have at the time. No special favourites.

sometime I stop for a can of coke from a vending machine or garage but that’s about it can be a bit bloaty but needs must.

pusing hard and doing 20 mph average I just want gels, bars and water, absolutely no bulky food that needs to be digested or will sit in my belly.

sometime I stop for a can of coke from a vending machine or garage but that’s about it can be a bit bloaty but needs must.

Dilute it in your water bottle with some water 😀

Burrrrggghhhhh. Rather enjoy it and put up with the burps 🙂

Your simply not fit enough.

Note high 5 are isotopic so they dehydrate you.

Simply 4 bottles of water and 3 gels. Take the gels after 50 miles as your 3 egg omelette with ham for breakfast will carry you through to the 50.

IF you are still dead now after 40 miles it's mileage and fitness you are lacking. Just ride more so 3 days a week ideally over 8 weeks preparation.

The tour de broads is flat. I live here and have done it so nothing is hard or hilly.

More importantly just enjoy it if you are new to the sport or do the 50 if you feel unfit. There's always next year.

Porridge with berries is what I usually eat before a big ride.

During the ride I eat a couple of jelly babies every 15 minutes. I also take a caffeine gel with me just in case I am struggling.

5 bottles of high 5 energy source and about 4-5 gels and a couple of SiS mini bars have done me the last couple this yeast. But if I was cruising rather than riding hard it I'd mix it up with a couple of bananas, flapjack, mini sandwich. Nice easy to digest stuff and maybe a gel or 2. I like to have a bottle of high 5 and one of water on my long training rides too.

There's no way you'll burn 6000 calories riding 100 miles unless you can manage it at threshold.

You can't absorb calories at that rate anyway, you're looking at 200-300 an hour and no more than 90g of carb an hour, after that you're just pooing it straight out as the body can't process anymore.

The headache is due to dehydration, 2 bottles, even 750ml is not enough for what appears to be quite an intensive effort.

A decent tea will help massively, followed by a good breakfast and concentrate on consuming  up to 90g of carb per hour in easy to digest form, drinks are a good way, that and fruit such as cranberrys. Flapjack are all well an good, but they are hard to break down and it's doubtful you'll get any benefit from the first one until about 3 hours in.

If I go out for a ride of that length I normally just take one bottle and stop for a spot of lunch somewhere on the way, but I'm not usually trying to go at pace. How much you need to fuel depends heavily on how hard you are working. Not only do you get less efficient at harder work rates, but there is obviously less time for your body to extract energy from its stores, so its a double edged sword. Drinking is even more work rate dependent, due to sweating.

Most of the advice above is good stuff, but if you find you don't have enough energy / food / drink, slow down a bit if possible - it makes a big difference.

What steve_b77 says.

If you not used to riding long distances it can be a shock to your system.

when I started to do long distances I needed lots more food/fuel than I do now.

Get flapjack type food into you every hour, and half way around a cheese or similar sandwich to actually tell your stomach you’ve eaten ... last few miles sugary food will get you home; energy gels, packet of rowntree jelly etc

drink lots of fluid!!

I did 100 miles last Sunday, the temperature was about 30 degrees. I drank plenty of water with breakfast and 2x 500ml bottles in the first 50 miles, 2 drinks at cafe, and 2x500 ml in the last 50 miles. For long rides especially in warm weather I put half a rehydration tab in my water, seems to help keep headaches away.

In general when I do 100+ mile rides, I have something like chicken and pasta the night before, and then cereals/porridge for breakfast. If it’s going to be a ride without a cafe stop I’ll add egg on toast to my breakfast. On the ride, I usually need a snack (eg banana) by 30-40 miles. If there’s no cafe stop I prefer energy bars to gels but I take an emergency gel with me.

Love this stuff:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Isostar-Hydrate-Perform-Lemon-Powder/dp/B000T92I84

Isostar powder. Not cheap so. And for 100 miles you need a lot of this. But you can take it with you and mix it with water on the way.

100 miles: go the first 60 miles really, really slow! There are always some extremely fit bikers which try to make you bike too fast. If you are not as fit yet take lots of isostar and bike slow.

Pasta the day before.

To start slow is the biggest challenge in my opinion.

Your simply not fit enough.

Bit rude that. A few years back i did a 60 miler for charadie. At the time i was lucky if out got out on the bike (mtb) once a month. Smoked (still do 🙁 ) and did no training. Stuck some slicks on my hardtail and put on a bigger front cog (was 1x9). I was worried i'd not be up for it but it was surprisingly easy. The fact it wasn't a race helped. As for fuel. I had breakfast and a sandwich after. Just go at your own pace and don't overthink it! Good luck

100 miles isn't very far really, especially on flat land.

Decent meal the night before, good breakfast (porridge), plenty fluids before the start, and a couple bottles of water (forget the electrolytes), plus 4 Snickers bars sees me good for a 200km (125miles) at audax pace over a mountainous route. It's even easier if you do stop for a meal about halfway.

Try doing some steady pre breakfast fasted rides say 20 miles in length, this will help to lose a bit of weight and train your body to use the reserves more effectively. Personally gels don’t work for me, it sends my blood sugars all over the shop. Bananas tick the box with a top tube bag with small portions of protein bars. No wrappers to faff with and easy to eat on the go. I combined this with longer training rides to complete the 150 mile coast to coast ride a month ago in a respectable time too. I lost 2 stone as part of the 5 month training plan. If you have weight to lose then this will have the biggest impact on the enjoyment of your ride.

I'd treat your current level of performance as a positive OP, you can already bash out half the distance at too high a pace so by reducing your avg speed and being a bit "strategic" you can cover 100 miles...

How many days do you have till the event? I'd plan them out now, along with at least a rough diet.

Rest is as important as exercise, so I'd let that tough 50 settle in for today and most of tomorrow at least, have some protein, chicken, milk stuff that's going to help your legs recover. You've just given your body a bit of a shock, it will need a couple of days to recover.

The advantage of the current weather/time of the year is that you can get out for (relatively relaxed, ) solo evening rides, maybe do a couple of hours every other evening between now and the event, concentrating on controlling the pace, and allowing yourself little bits of recovery (not stopping, just managing effort) along the way... You're basically trying to get your body used to metering out effort.

And get used to spinning up climbs and settling into a comfortable rhythm with a sustainable HR on flat sections, worry less about speed and more about conserving energy while making progress.

Ideally if you have a HRM you'll be able to gauge what level of work you can operate at comfortably at, do you know your avg HR during that recent big effort? It's a good indicator of what you can sustain, whatever you did for that ride is too much, so dial it back. Basically Just practice operating at a more sustainable work rate...

In all seriousness, ride slower. It’s not a race. Backing off 2mph, at least one bottle an hour, and as much real food – flapjacks, sandwiches, as you can carry/fit in a top tube bag/buy in shops and pubs on the way round

This, assuming you're not a racing snake.

I'm currently sitting in a beer garden with a pint and a packet of peanuts, 65 miles into an 80 mile ish ride. I've drunk a bottle of water every twenty miles ish, I had a cereal bar at about 30miles, stopped for a sandwich, packet of crisps and a coke at 45 miles and had cereal and a banana for breakfast

Similarly, I've done rides where I don't really want to stop, like Ride London, with jersey pockets full of cheese rolls and cereal bars.

Unless you are riding on the rivet, you do not need gels or 'sports nutrition'.

Hi all thanks for the replies .

So I've been building up the mileage and have about 4 weeks until the event.

I'm that time I've also got a week in Lanzarote with the family at an all inclusive place !!

I don't really feel as though I'm going that fast at an average of 16.8 mph.

I will try taking a bit of malt loaf and stuff with me on the next ride.

One thing that I'm confused about is that people say that when you have expended all food reserves your body will start burning off fat. It doesn't seem to be happening for me .  Is there any way to try and help it ?

One thing that I’m confused about is that people say that when you have expended all food reserves your body will start burning off fat. It doesn’t seem to be happening for me . Is there any way to try and help it ?

haha

That's fun. Yes - the body keeps the fat as emergency thing ... and doesn't like to burn it!

Help it: think only way is to get really fitter. More muscle mass needs more energy?

But complex issue!

Perhaps you need a new bike 😋

As above eat well before hand. Keep eating as and when you can and make sure you stay hydrated.

Best thing to do is draft other people and never go on the front. If you are on your own slow down and wait for another group so you can sit on the wheels of others.

If you are feeling good with 20 to go you can take a turn on the front. Drafting saves around 30% energy give or take.

Your goal this year is to finish. Next year its to beat this year's time.

Maybe the bike is wrong?

So I’ve been building up the mileage and have about 4 weeks until the event.

I'd try and stick to sensible length rides for the most part, distances that you can recover from within 24hrs and try to "taper" the effort/mileage in that last week, beware of over training.

I’m that time I’ve also got a week in Lanzarote with the family at an all inclusive place !!

All inclusive places do tend to do plenty of (quite tasty) healthy food too so you can eat and enjoy your holiday, have some treats, just maybe just go easy on the carbs. Does the hotel have a gym? Can you take trainers go for a couple of early morning runs while you're there? You can almost certainly squeeze in a few laps of the pool each day, you can slow down but try to maintain some level of activity...

I don’t really feel as though I’m going that fast at an average of 16.8 mph.

Well you are, it's a respectable pace, certainly over the 50 odd miles you did it, but It's not a pace you can sustain for 100 miles, the simple evidence is that you're bolloxed after half the distance you want to cover, and in the time you have to prepare you're not going to double your endurance or shit out five stone. So something has to give and the obvious thing is avg speed.

You need to reduce the work rate, maybe target 15mph avg with a view to dropping it lower if necessary. And have you got a HRM? HR is almost certainly the metric to focus on not avg speed.

Maybe couple of weeks from now see if you can do ~70 miles at 15mph avg and have something left in the tank by the end, that would definitely indicate you're on target for the century (at about that pace) another two weeks on...

Thanks cookeaa much appreciated

Not 100 miles, but 100km solo today in the heat and slight head wind. 15mph average. HR always below threshold (zone 2 for most of the ride).

Couple of muffins for breakfast. 3 litres of water, 2 cans of full fat lemonade and two ice lollies during the ride. Was fine.

YMM(well)V.

I think it was the two ice lollies that helped you lol

Fuelling with carbs means you need a fuelling strategy.  You need to realistically assess your energy demands and replenish.

The "science" behind these strategies (and the billion dollar business of sports nutrition) is barely science (associative rather than causative studies) and usually ignores the gut distress, peaks and troughs, and off-the-bike consequences of a carbs and glucose fuelling strategy.

Many people can reasonably adapt to fat burning in as little as 10 days, which makes 100 miles a doddle.

The studies that investigated non-carb fuelling strategies and demonstrated superiority of carbs used non adapted subjects.

Try doing some steady pre breakfast fasted rides say 20 miles in length, this will help to lose a bit of weight

Not as much as some post breakfast harder rides.

3 things - the headache is probably dehydration. It’s very hot at the moment (assume it’s the same where you are) so I’d have rinsed through those 2 bottles and it wouldn’t have been enough. I did a push up morning on the mtb a few weeks ago and had a headache the rest of the day. Drank 4 or 5 pints of water once I was home and eventually got on top of it and the headache faded.

With road biking it’s not seen as cool to ride with a back pack - but assuming you aren’t racing I’d take the bottles and a hydration pack - that way you can get 2 or 3 litres of water in the bag as well as the bottles. Maybe use energy / electrolytes in the bottles and pure water in the bag.

Im not massively up on nutrition but is the done thing still to eat a big pasta meal the night before?

I’d then have some kind of oat based breakfast and then make sure I had suitable snacks as I went along. I’ve never cycled much past 50 miles on the road (and fuelling never been a problem)  but I think I’d take some energy gels / a banana or 2 / soreen mini bars. I’m not a fan of a lot of energy bars as I find them really stodgy to eat.

Do you stop for lunch in this ride - or is it non stop? I haven’t looked it up but assume it’s a sportive rather than a full race?

Lastly it sounds like you need to get some decent mileage into your legs in the next 4 weeks. Going on running training the first 2 weeks are the ones to get the biggest miles in, then taper down so you don’t do too many the week before so your legs are fresh.

"the headache is probably dehydration"

This is probably a non-medical diagnosis and neither is anything I write.

The human body is made up of homeostatic systems.  We self-regulate.   The self-regulation is intrinsic, automatic and beautifully capable, until it encounters an external influence beyond its scope of control.  We are evolved creatures of exercise.  We are not evolved to drink gallons of liquid while exercising.  What has worked for me is to do as little out of the ordinary as possible to my body and let it sort it out.  YMMV.

That said.

Humans do not get through as much water exercising as the drinks companies tell you.  Sometimes, overdrinking is the cause of headaches as a precursor stage to EAH (exercise associated hyponatremia).  Low intensity exercising adults (females particularly) who hydrate excessively can put themselves in a life threatening condition (EAH) which cannot be corrected orally; this is suspected to be the single largest cause of collapse and death in marathon running (it isn't the elite who die, it is the punters who go slowly, don't sweat that much and over-hydrate).

When cycling, a little sweat goes a long way for body temperature regulation because of the general airflow.  So hydration guidelines for runners (what the drinks companies sell) are inappropriate.

When you're hot, drinking doesn't make you cooler.  Sweating does.  If you're hot on the bike (and not thirsty) tip that bidon of water over your head and down your back.

Drink to thirst unless you are one of the truly rare people who lacks a sense of thirst.

To confirm if a "drink to thirst" strategy is working check your urine colour - clear to straw; not yellow.

Last bit: hydration isn't necessary to sustain performance; all those hydration/performance tests were done in the lab with inadequate airflow and therefore inadequate temperature regulation.  temperature determines performance.  Keep your temperature regulated and you will sustain performance even having lost a lot of fluid - often this is more comfortable on the gut that shoving a mathematically formulaic volume of fluid back in the system.  Even dehydrated athletes can sweat.  There is a phenomenal wealth of BS around these subjects.  Suggest referring to Tim Noakes book "Waterlogged" for a review of forty years of science in this area.

88 miles yesterday to and from a spot of social ride leading - granola and coffee for breakfast, peanut butter flapjack and tea at first café, small slice of lemon cheesecake and tea at second café stop, Pimms flavoured scone with Pimms clotted cream and a cappuccino at third stop, 3 bottles of High 5 Zero as well.

Probably not very sustainable thinking about it!

Tim Noakes a purveyor of nutritional woo himself. I would be careful citing him as the scientific rigour is no longer there.

All science is subject to revision in light of new results. Tim Noakes as much as any other. He publishes research papers  He critiques existing studies. He points out where contradictory results and secondary observations from other experiments have been extrapolated past all sense by marketing teams.

I think he's rather more worthy of consideration than just a snide put down with no context.

The understanding of exercise associated hyponatremia courtesy of Noakes et al is saving lives where the sports nutrition industry would have carried on regardless. It will evidently take significant time for decades of misinformation to fall out of the body of received wisdom, as per the forum responses :"you're dehydrated mate"

If you haven't already get yourself a HRM or better a power meter and start recording your efforts so you learn your threshold power \ hr.  I know my go all day pace is 157bpm \ 220w.  Then look at how many calories you typically burn per hour at your threshold pace.  I assume generally if I'm well rested and fed I have about 2500 calories in my legs.  Then add up from there the gels and bars I need.  Adding a couple for luck.  I tend to eat on the hour.

example Sat s ride was 65mile \ 4.5k climbing at 16.9mph in just under 4 hours.  Fuel was 2 slices of jammy toast , 2 sis caffeine gels, 2 water bottles one with energy one with electroyltes.  Then when I finished the ride tuna mayo followed by brand on toast for lunch.

I generally find most people over eat and over drink....and over complicate

All science is subject to revision in light of new results. Tim Noakes as much as any other. He publishes research papers  He critiques existing studies. He points out where contradictory results and secondary observations from other experiments have been extrapolated past all sense by marketing teams.

When you have numerous very eminent researchers and 'nutritional' (dietitian types with qualifications) posting comments such as

Tim Noakes is wrong about literally almost everything. He is more often wrong than many random, small-time pseudoscientific bloggers. Yet Tim speaks with profound conviction. I have no way of explaining this. I continue to be baffled by it.

You'll forgive me for being just a little dismissive of the woo promoter.

This is probably a non-medical diagnosis and neither is anything I write.

Last bit: hydration isn’t necessary to sustain performance;

Erm...how can I say this, apart from this is complete bollocks?

this is complete bollocks

It's not really.

Lab tests done on turbo trainers with one group drinking plenty to remain hydrated, other group just allowed to wet their mouths/lips but not drink.  Second group finished dehydrated but with no significant drop in performance.

Obviously there's a point when the wheels fall off, but that's a quite a way away from being fully hydrated.

See also Chris Froome's AAF and the guy who designed the test saying the limit was for swimmers who don't finish races dehydrated, and not it's not appropriate for cyclists, who generally/always do.

Pro racers seem to be able to cycle quite hard at the end of the day despite that.

It’s not really.

Oh it is bollocks, dangerous bollocks of the highest order. Try not drinking all day and then ride 100miles on a hot day without drinking and tell us how you feel, or just have say 2 500ml bottles.

Pro racers seem to be able to cycle quite hard at the end of the day despite that.

The OP and the rest of us are not Pro racers and they seem to drink a shed load of water anyway.

One thing that I’m confused about is that people say that when you have expended all food reserves your body will start burning off fat. It doesn’t seem to be happening for me .  Is there any way to try and help it

Your body will only start burning fat reserves if it's accustomed to doing so, it's not an automatic switch. From what I understand (and this may be totally wrong), fat is considerably harder to breakdown and therefore the body doesn't do it as easily as other reserves, and it only occurs under certain conditions, such as lower stressed exercise. Which by all accounts and judging by your OP, is not something you're doing.

For info on the how did you fuel a 100 mile ride, yesterday I did 206km with 1450m of climbing or 128 miles & 4757ft in a just over 7 & 1/2 hours, at just under 17mph / 27kph. I started with a decent tea of chicken & rice, got up at 6, had a bowl of porridge, then every hour had a small SiS bar or a gel later in the ride, at each of the 3 feed stations I had a banana, a slice of chocolate or lemon drizzle loaf and a handful of salted peanuts. I drank 6 x 750ml bottles of fluid, the first two being SiS Hydro Go and the last 4 being the weak carb drink mix they were offering at the feed station.

Post ride, it was the free burger with Cheese, followed by a 500ml protein shake, then a hefty evening meal an a couple of ciders. Today I feel right as rain, no dehydration, no stiffness or soreness, so the plan works for me.

I'm not going to go further on Noakes.  It doesn't help this thread.

My experience [with standout memories]:

1. Isostar = cramps [two road races 1988/89 - Brill + Blowingstone, Oxfordshire]

2. Deep bonk on carbs [British Universities team time trial ~ 1989]

... allowing that there is a world of difference between the physiology of a twenty year old and forty+...

3. On the occasions that I have attempted fat adaptation... i) I lost weight; ii) I felt mentally sharper; iii) I was able to ride all day without fretting about fuelling/bonk [CLIC24 2008;  Tweedlove Enduro 2016 practice and race days]

4. When I have not intentionally attempted fat adaptation, I've needed a basic replenishment fuelling strategy to get through a five hour + Enduro (but this has worked successfully) [Cream of the Croft / Ballo enduros 2018]

5. When I rehydrate (gulp down pints of fluid) after exercise, I tend to get bad cramps [always]

My recent approach has been a bit of a composite.  I absolutely don't cope well with glucose heavy intake.  Gels are a complete no-no.  I'll go for plain water, sipped when thirsty or tipped over my head to cool down.  I prefer "health" bars with ingredients you can identify - preferably a fruit / nut / seed mix and I can cope with (and probably need) one of them per hour.  I don't believe in carb loading (for me) prior to the event as I'll just feel bloated and horrible, but normal diet and an attempt to taper will be just fine (which doesn't work when you have an enduro practice day the day before the event).

I'm attempting to go back in the direction of fat adaptation again because I feel better on it and I think it stands the chance of giving me the best coverage for two day events (practice and race day enduros).

Most importantly, YMMV.

Easy fella!

Did you read all of my post?

Obviously there’s a point when the wheels fall off, but that’s a quite a way away from being fully hydrated.

The point about pro racers was that absolutely everything about what they do is designed to optimise performance, and if it was a significant impediment to be a bit dehydrated, they wouldn't need special adjustments to test to account for it.

I'd imagine that for a summit finish, they aim to be dehydrated to the point where they're as light as possible, but not so dehydrated that it's significantly affecting performance.

I generally find most …. over complicate

Ya don't say... 😉

If you haven’t already get yourself a HRM or better a power meter and start recording your efforts so you learn your threshold power \ hr.  I know my go all day pace is 157bpm \ 220w.  Then look at how many calories you typically burn per hour at your threshold pace.  I assume generally if I’m well rested and fed I have about 2500 calories in my legs.  Then add up from there the gels and bars I need.  Adding a couple for luck.  I tend to eat on the hour.

I've realised I bonk quickly and need to keep eating regularly if I'm cracking on or racing, but if I just knock back the effort just a little, and it doesn't take much, I can just keep going without wanting or needing much at all, to the point where I feel better and more stable if I don't eat than if I snack, and get the rolling peaks and troughs of energy.

More research needed, but I don't do that many long rides!

Renton you’ll be fine. It’s very hot at the moment for UK temperatures, so fluids are more important than ever. I’ll typically ride 100 miles on 2x 1L bottles from SIS with isotonic not calorific drink. Lemon is the nicest when you are hot I find.

For fuel. Eat well before. I can’t recomment tuna and rice enough. Cold and at least two hours before you start. A half mug of rice, one mug of water. Summer till absorbed then stir in a time of tuna in brine. During the ride your going to need to refuel. Once every 30 minutes or so. Bananas go down well but get squishy. I like Nak’d cocoa date bars but not a lot of calories. Some porridge pouches called oats to go give 60g of carbs.

If you like to have something solid butbstruggle to swallow (Like me) the Bloks are very good and go down easily. One packet is about a gel

I rode 320 miles of a planned 480 yesterday on porridge and gels with the odd bar.  Sadly I was a DNF. But double your longest distance is a good achievable milestone. Eating and comfort will be what matters. But 500 mL of drink per hour minimum. It’s hard to recover when it goes downhill. And it’s not a race. Except mine was 😉

At the weekend we did a 320km loop along canals and NCN routes, bivvying overnight. 175km on Saturday, 145km yesterday. About 1000m of climbing each day.

A couple of cafe stops both days plus something a bit more substantial Saturday evening before we found somewhere to bivy. Trail food was GORP - Good Ol' Raisins and Peanuts. Hydration was plain water plus a can or two of pop. I probably had three litres of fluid each day.

As above, there's a big difference between racing (or riding close to your limit) and riding at a steady pace. The pros need high levels of hydration because they are pushing it, generally only for four to five hours on a typical stage. For most of the two days my HR was probably in the 100-110bpm range a couple of the steeper climbs like climbing up from the Woodhead tunnels it will have been higher. Even with the high temperatures I wasn't sweating that much.

BTW Pros will not be seriously dehydrated In climbs, they manage their weight over a grand tour by restricting food input. Froome will be aiming to shed a kilo or more for the last week . They have a team of dietitians to manage this. But they drink plenty on the road. We just don’t see it. And the weather is similar to our current heatwave.

Having it all managed makes things a lot easier. 500-750 mL/hr, some of this can be energy drink if you can stomach it.

I can’t recomment tuna and rice enough. Cold

🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮

The OP and most non racers just need to eat oaty complex carbs regularly, drink water regularly and take it steady have a couple of gels in their back pockets in case of emergency.

500-750 mL/hr, some of this can be energy drink if you can stomach it.

I tend to have one bottle of dilute energy drink and one of water. That way I can pour water down my neck and energy drink tends to make me bloated. I said on page one use about half the recommended amount of the powder.

anagallis_arvensis
...Try not drinking all day and then ride 100miles on a hot day without drinking and tell us how you feel, or just have say 2 500ml bottles...

I did something like that a couple of weeks ago on one of our hot days (high 20s).

Set off after breakfast with 2 500ml bottles and did 125 miles at an audax pace. Felt ok but a bit dry at the end.

I didn't take more water because there's plenty rivers and streams on the way, but I didn't feel the need.

(Plain water with a squeeze of lemon, no electrolytes)

Obviously someone travelling at a race pace will be generating more body heat and needs to dissipate it more, thus more sweat, more fluid required.

Obviously someone travelling at a race pace will be generating more body heat and needs to dissipate it more, thus more sweat, more fluid required.

You'd have been dehydrated even if it was cold just through normal breathing. Just because it can done done it doesnt make it sensible or healthy. I would drink that much on a hot day doing no exercise.

Doesn't mean it's stupid, dangerous or unhealthy, either.  Extreme dehydration can have serious health consequences up to and including death, there's no doubt.   But being "dehydrated" isn't binary, you're not suffering badly or completely fine, there's a curve, and experience and science show it's not going be the end of the world if you end up being a bit dehydrated.

I think that's what's being argued, no-one's advocating not bothering water.  Hopefully no-one's reading this and deciding that they don't need to drink on long rides any more.  Maybe you're being cautious and just making sure that you catch those people.  Probably one of those cases where people are basically in agreement, but get pushed further and further apart by statements that are a little further the other way than they're comfortable with.

You’d have been dehydrated even if it was cold just through normal breathing.

A bit left field. Last year I did the Rovaniemi 150, a fat bike race in Lapland, in February. On the discussion about frost bite one of the recommendations was to ensure you drank enough as dehydration is a contributory factor.

The sad truth is that's its the pace that will knacker you. I struggled at the end of a 50miler the other day as we pushed on at our normal / slightly higher than normal pace but I simply didn't have the legs through not riding enough this year. Normally it'd be no issue at all, but I went to lead in the last couple of miles. Fed reasonably well throughout, just a few too many short sharp hills I rushed over rather than sitting up and spinning up.

100 miles on the flat though is easier IME than 50 with 1000m of climbing. Certianly easier to regulate effort, unless there is a headwind from hell. If you eat some proper food at regular intervals, maybe have some Torq or sometihng in your bottles and make use of refill stations you'll be fine. Just keep a lid on that effort .. never mind hrms etc if you don't use them, just don't be pushing so hard you struggle to talk at too many points.

A gel or two might be a handy psychological lift @ 80 in, if you're used to them.

experience and science show it’s not going be the end of the world if you end up being a bit dehydrated.

Which you will be even if you drink lots.

not sure what was complicated about my advice.

learn to pace.  learn what you calorie per hour burn is at said pace.  So let's say you aim to complete a 100 miler in 7 hours at a sustainable pace of 500 calories per hour.  you need approx 3500 calories.  let's say you are fresh and had a decent carb heavy meal the night before.  you will need approx 1000 calories intake to avoiding bonking.  you should take on a bit more so you don't finish complelty empty.  though some level of defecit is probably a good idea for most who aren't sat at optimimum weight.  OP doesn't mention height, but 17.5st is pretty hefty for a cyclist.

drinks wise it is super hot and I made the mistake last year on a hilly south downs century solo of not taking it into account.  I only planned one water stop (so 4 x 750ml) on what turned out to be the hottest day of the year.  At the 80 mile mark I was a mess.  so bad that another cyclist stopped whilst I was huddled under the only bit of shade I could find and gave me half a bottle to get home.  took 2 days to get rid of the headache

every one is different, the way to learn about how you perform is to start recording and measuring to understand what works for you

HOw do you pace yourselves though ? Yesterday i thought i was taking it easy.... then got home and saw my Strava littered with glittering awards on the first half of the ride... but i would have sworn i was cruising it.

I really struggle with knocking off the extra bit that would allow me to ride in the latter stages.

use the numbers and know your zones,  a HRM works fine, power meter better.

of course some days you aren't quite feeling it, or coming down with the lurgy others your flying but if I look back at all my stats they are remarkably tight.  so I know if I'm averaging 300+ watts / 170+ nom for anything longer than 10 mins or so on an endurance rode I am likely to be falling short in the latter part of the ride.  always best to start slow and finish strong imo.

Mentioned several times in the thread: get a HRM; work out your HR zones and STICK to Zone 1 for long or multi-day rides, Zone 2 for something under 12hrs. Zone 1 is often called "Recovery", Zone 2 "Endurance".

For me (and I stress for me) Z1 tops out at 125bpm and Z2 tops out at 137bpm. The latter rate is quite hard TBH, and on a hot day I wouldn't like to be riding at that pace for very long. As reference on the flat on a typical gravel canal tow path my HR will be in the 110bpm range on an MTB at 20kmh. That's an all day level of effort, I wouldn't be doing that speed up hills either!

It does take quite a bit of will power though. Just because you normally keep up with X doesn't mean you are as fit as they are or able to cope with the particular conditions.

let’s say you aim to complete a 100 miler in 7 hours at a sustainable pace of 500 calories per hour.  you need approx 3500 calories.  let’s say you are fresh and had a decent carb heavy meal the night before.  you will need approx 1000 calories intake to avoiding bonking.

It's OK as a rule of thumb, but it isn't strictly correct particularly wrt the dreaded knock.

It all depends on your energy physiology and fitness. A pro could do 100 miles in 7 hours on just water; their power output per effort is sufficiently high that to ride at that pace all they'll use up is stored energy.

The bonk comes when your glycogen stores in your muscles and liver run out. And it's horrible. But you don't use anywhere near as much glycogen as long as you stay below your threshold - that point where your system goes from aerobic to anaerobic - hence why I think as important as fuelling and drinking is knowing what your threshold is and trying as much as possible to stay below it. So yes, topping up your food as you go is correct, but you can't refuel the glycogen anywhere near as fast as you CAN burn it and when it's gone - the engine management light comes on and you limp home.

Power meter - best.
HRM - good, for us weekend warriors
Neither - the effort level is where you switch from being able to hold a relatively reasonable conversation to conversing with a few words followed by a gap to catch your breath.

And for us 'far end of the rail' shoppers - there will be times (hills mainly) where we will be above that level just to keep moving - so knowing that you are spending time in that zone because you have to makes it more important you don't go into that zone when you don't. hence - steady as she goes on the flat, no big pulls on the front as if it was a team time trial no matter how strong you feel...... conserve as long as you can and then burn it off in the last 10-15% if you have legs then.

@weeksy; might have been a bad day but do you use a HRM? What time did you spend in each zone knowing some of those climbs are almost certainly above threshold efforts even at easy pace, and if you were setting PB's then definitely they were.

Addendum to the above.

Basically this is what the pros do on the long Alpine climbs when the commentator says something like "Sky are riding tempo". Tempo is the next zone up from Endurance and above that you go past your lactate threshold, i.e. you are going into the red. So anyone who wants to breakaway not only has to go into the red but stay there for a while to make the break stick. The GC contenders are all within a small margin of each other and there's no way they'll risk overcooking things.

This is why breaks tend to happen at other times such as on descents - Froome himself did so - or at a point when others aren't keeping an eye on things.

You can graph sustained HR against duration: an out an out sprint at close to max HR can only be sustained for tens of seconds. As the HR drops so you can ride at that level for longer until you get to a level where effectively there is no limit and the graph flattens out.

A couple of winters ago I did a lot of turbo work using TrainerRoad. One of the metrics that came out of that was such a graph of, in this case, power vs time. The graph isn't a smooth curve, there's often a flattening at certain points. This can be either because you only tested yourself at that power level later during the program so you were stronger or that your body is optimised for that level of effort. Put simply: *you* need to characterise how *you* perform at different work loads.

HOw do you pace yourselves though ?

I know that from hard training rides and  https://cricklesorg.wordpress.com/ , that my heart rate z4 is ~162-171, I therefore try to not get excited on longer rides and chase PBs, ensuring my heart rate stays under 160bpm.

And while I know I can average ~300-320W up a cat 3/4 on a good day to chase PBs under 15mins, or hold ~250W average over rolling cat3/4 terrain for an hour, that pace will catch up with me on longer rides. So on a planned longer ride, I will drop into easier gears and spin at a higher cadence, even if that means using my 34-32 lowest gear, to try and minimise how much I go over the 250W threshold on a climb.

Taking my last two rides purely as examples, it's the difference between  https://www.strava.com/activities/1716853439 (training ride, including ~8mins visit to Halfords) and https://www.strava.com/activities/1721085988 (recovery ride)

It's all about knowing ballpark figures of what your body can take and if you're pushing the distance and/or ride time envelopes, ride conservatively early on... Until you are absolutely sure you can complete the ride.

Two examples from my Strava - both road rides

On one, I took it easy and got home feeling lovely and fresh. The other was much hillier and I was properly knackered by the end. Similar time overall, only difference was one was hilly and one wasn't hence the time spend out of the comfortable zones 1/2/3

Z1   9.5 mins / 4%
Z2   100mins / 42%
Z3   110 mins / 46%
Z4   18 mins / 8% (basically only if I had to, was a flat ride)
Z5   8s (in a pointless race for 'KoM' against a mate up one of the hills 😉 )

Z1   10 mins / 5%
Z2   45 mins / 21%
Z3   87 mins / 39%
Z4   62 mins / 28%
Z5   16 mins / 7%

Can I just bring the nutrition and sports scientists back to the original question of getting a mild chubber around a 100 mile bike ride....

- Have a good meal the night before, ideally pasta, rice etc.

- Have a good breakfast

- Drink regularly (750ml bottle every 25 milesish). Water is fine.

- Eat regularly (cereal bar every 25 miles, grab a banana at the feed stations, there's always bananas at feed stations).

- Have an emergency gel, in your pocket, just in case.

- Ride at a steady pace (as someone said above, where your breathing means you can just about keep a conversation going)

You'll be fine. It's a sportive, not Le Tour.

I agree - just wanted to make the point that you can eat and drink all you like, if you are burning your reserves faster than they go back (and to all intents and purposes you can't replenish glycogen on the go) then you will blow up.

And of the two evils - getting to the finish and thinking you could have gone a bit harder is by far the lesser one compared to phoning your mummy and begging her to come and pick you up at the 75 mile marker 😉

i would doubt anyone is burning up their glycogen stores if riding at a 100 mile sustainable pace...kind of obvious. .which is why I.said it is about pacing.

anyways it's really not that hard if you go slow and enjoy the view.  when I was much fitter (2015 before the littleones).  I.would do.a couple of unsupported centuries a month.  generally no.stopping, just a malt loaf, some gels and 2 bottles and a colapasable one.  if I tried that now I'd be calling the.wife to bail me out.

Renton, basically what we are all saying is.

We are all different but we have found what works for us.

You need to find what works for you.

Will there be feeding/drinking stations on this ride? If there are how far apart are they?

i would doubt anyone is burning up their glycogen stores if riding at a 100 mile sustainable pace…kind of obvious. .which is why I.said it is about pacing.

Maybe not on a flat 100, but if there are hills, and your a fat 49 year old weekend warrior, some hills will have you in that territory. I know I will be for Ride London up Leith for example, I'll be Z4 just to keep moving and Z5 if I want to push it. I can do Box in Z3 but at a snails pace which is no fun, likewise Newlands.

So I will be burning my matches, I just need to ensure I haven't burnt them all when I'm still 20 miles from home. Which means like I said, no big turns on the front trying to hold 25mph out of London!