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does the same apply if you're dutch?
Probably not.
Curious, so it's not about helmets, it's about helmets in this specific environment? Kinda puts a different spin on a lot of the arguments doesn't it?
Yeah sorry aracer, it is a cop out but I just don't trust my fellow road using country folk enough not to, which makes me sad 🙁 I have been knocked off before a couple of times, only hit my head once though and to be honest the helmet probably only stopped me leaving some skin on the tarmac rather than offering any impact protection. It's hard to rationalise but I do wear one, I'm not preachy about it though, I'm pro-choice, anti-compulsion.
Off-road it's more about my own stupidity...
Not everyone's a middle aged IT manager who can't ride off road without completing a skills course......
The most sanctimonious comment on STW ever.
It's your head mate, and I'm glad the sheer size of it has kept you on the bike so far. Of course it's your choice not to protect it, but if you think lack of skills is the only thing that'll have you off a bike you must be very naive.
i wear a helmet for my kids sake, if it means not leaving my kids with no father then its worth it to me, i couldnt care less about what i look like, because i look and act stupid without it on anyway, btw ive been knocked off my bike six times during my 40 yrs of cycling, so i tend to cycle on the pavement as much as possible, its safer to have an argument with a pedestrian than over a ton of metal and rubber
[quote=steviecapt ]i wear a helmet for my kids sake, if it means not leaving my kids with no father then its worth it to me
So you also wear one whilst walking, driving and using the stairs?
I'd just like to say a racer, that I've had two serious accidents involving my head on a bike. I've not yet done so whilst walking, driving or walking down the stairs. Still time though I guess, eh.
Pedestrians also hit their heads on tarmac
But as I said - there are no cars on the pavements. No-one to knock me off, and I won't fall over on my own.
Let's get a few things clear, shall we?
1) You seem to think my head is as much at risk whilst walking as it is whilst cycling - yes? MY head, not a statistical average head.
2) You also seem to think that my head is at similar risk in a car. That's MY head in MY car with all its protective features - yes?
Both of those things need evidence. And I mean evidence that relates specifically to people and cars just like me and mine. So subtract pissed people (and the rest) from the walking stats and subtract crappy old cars and boy racers from the car stats.
3) Do you think that hitting a bare head on tarmac is no different to one protected by two inches of foam? Why? Surely you're not playing the rotational injury card?
If you're going to keep banging on and on and on and ****ing ON about climbing the stairs and driving, you'll need to show me exactly why it's more dangerous FOR ME. Your constant repetition without adding anything to the debate is really getting old.
For me its quite simply "I'd rather wear one and not need it, than not wear one and need it".
As a comparison we could all get by walking round with no shoes on, however most people do wear shoes? Why because amongst other things they help protect you feet from cuts from glass,stones, infection from standing in something you would rather not etc.
To the OP if you see the benefit/dangers for wearing one off road I cant quite see why your so averse to wearing one on road, hitting the pavement at 20mph will probably do as much damage as hitting a tree at the same speed.
The most sanctimonious comment on STW ever.It's your head mate, and I'm glad the sheer size of it has kept you on the bike so far.
😀 sorry. The chap did say something really cocky and tried to sound like a smart arse. I didn't have a witty come back and I think I'm still a bit riled by it.
I have fallen off and concussed myself a few times; I think it's much more likely when you're pushing your limits. And if your limits are the North Face trail at grizedale, or the Pleney run in Morzine; always make sure you wear a helmet.
[quote=molgrips ]1) You seem to think my head is as much at risk whilst
walking as it is whilst cycling - yes?
No.
You're completely missing the point - I did try and explain earlier. You (and steviecapt amongst others) are being absolutist about wearing helmets on bikes. There is some risk, there is some chance of a helmet helping, therefore you see no good reason not to wear one for the very small chance that it will help you.
Yet it seems you don't apply the same criteria to other activities. In those cases you say "the risk is small". Well some of us also consider the risk sufficiently low for cycling.
You can't have it both ways - if you're going to be absolutist for wearing one whilst cycling, then exactly the same arguments apply for other activities where there is some risk, even if the risk is different. If you want to argue you don't need one for other activities because the risk is low (despite clearly existing), then you have to accept that some other people also consider the risk sufficiently low for some cycling activities (I'd happily argue that some of the time I don't wear one I am at no more risk of head injury than you are whilst walking).
So subtract pissed people (and the rest) from the walking stats and subtract crappy old cars and boy racers from the car stats.
What about the cycling stats? Can we subtract the young, the elderly, the inexperienced, the drunk, the reckless from those? I'm happy to accept that your personal risk whilst walking is low, but not so sure you've accurately assessed your personal risk whilst driving compared to your personal risk whilst cycling.
I think its an amazing testament to the success of the cycling helmet that their widespread use has reduced the risk of dying from a head injury whilst cycling down to that of the level of walking. GO HELMETS!
Well. This is anecdote, but let's do a little thought experiment about risk: Out of my circle of acquaintances in the past 2-3 years. I can think of 5 people who have injured themselves while cycling. 0 while walking, 0 while driving. 0 kicked to death by donkeys. The floor is open.
**** me this is tedious.
Before this trollfest gets locked, as I always used to say to TJ, if you really don't believe a helmet will protect your head, lets go outside and smash your head against a wall or the road at cycling speed, first with a helmet, then without, and lets see which one you prefer after 😉
If our roads were as safe as Copenhagen I'd happily cruise around without a helmet, sadly the reality isn't like that here.
[quote=imnotverygood ]Well. This is anecdote, but let's do a little thought experiment about risk: Out of my circle of acquaintances in the past 2-3 years. I can think of 5 people who have injured themselves while cycling. 0 while walking, 0 while driving. 0 kicked to death by donkeys. The floor is open.
How many of those were doing the sort of cycling where I choose not to wear a helmet (I'd be very confident the answer is zero)? Come to that, noting your wording, how many had head injuries or damaged their helmets?
I don't know of anybody who's ever had a head injury whilst doing any of the specific things I choose not to use a helmet for, though I've heard of people doing so whilst driving and walking.
[quote=bigjim ]Before this trollfest gets locked, as I always used to say to TJ, if you really don't believe a helmet will protect your head, lets go outside and smash your head against a wall or the road at cycling speed, first with a helmet, then without, and lets see which one you prefer after
I'm sure he was very impressed with that strawman.
I quite agree that you can distinguish between different types of cycling (albeit the only time I have hit my head was while commuting). The actual score was 1 mtbing and the rest road riding. However, the point I'm trying to make is that just using the raw numbers to 'prove' the risks involved is just as unconvincing as anecdote. My subjective feeling is that cycling is much more risky than walking, enough for it to be understandable why people feel the need to wear helmets. (Even though I think they over-estimate the protection provided and the absolute risk involved) I am aware that this means I sort of agree with molgrips 😳
Here is a good reason why I don't wear a helmet (and all based on 40+ years of cycling)
My risk assessment of cycling is very low and I have fallen over more when not cycling, i.e. I didn't wear a helmet when going out drinking (a lot in my twenties), I didn't wear a helmet yesterday when feeding the chickens but slipped over on a wet patio tile that had mud on it, I didn't wear a helmet when X, etc, etc,
I have never seen any scientific evidence that suggests they actually work. Even if they did work I have no more need for one cycling than anything else (as above)
I don't like wearing them
If I was worried about knocking my head I would wear a full face motorcycle helmet as that has much more evidence behind it but no-one is going to do that are they.
Do helmet threads always descend into a bunfight?
Do helmet threads always descend into a bunfight?
Yes. It is a bit like religion.
- The pro helmet are the religious zealots who believe everyone should live their life as they do
- The anti helmet are the atheists. Don't see many of these as most are agnostics waiting for a sign from god before deciding
Wonder if Jesus would have worn a helmet
You (and steviecapt amongst others) are being absolutist about wearing helmets on bikes
No, I'm not. Read back. I was talking about the relative risks of cycling, and how we don't seem to have any conclusive stats. In the absence of which I have made a subjective assessment.
The reason I always wear one, and make my kids do so, is to form a habit. I always put my keys on the rack, I always put my wallet on the stairs, so I alwys know where they are. I always wear a helmet when cycling so that when the unexpected happens I have some protection.
Most people on this thread seem happy to wear helmets off-road, but they think road is safer. I don't, at least for me. The accident I am most worried about with regards my head is being taken out by a vehichle and smacking my head on an A pillar or bouncing off the vehicle and hitting it on the hard tarmac or a concrete bollard or something.
I still put it on if I am going to the shops for the same reason I out my seatbelt on when driving a short distance. I want to have the habit, so that I never end up forgetting it or not having it when I end up needing it.
But as I said - there are no cars on the pavements. No-one to knock me off, and I won't fall over on my own.
Just a couple small points
A cycle helmet is not designed to provide protection in the case of a collision with another motor vehicle. Expecting any piece of safety equipment to perform outwith it's original design is at best unwise.
Pedestrians are killed by collisions with cars even though they (the cars) aren't supposed to be there.
I have fallen off and concussed myself a few times; I think it's much more likely when you're pushing your limits. And if your limits are the North Face trail at grizedale, or the Pleney run in Morzine; always make sure you wear a helmet.
Neither are at my limits, I wouldn't ride either without a lid. I was taking a run down something I'd done loads when something different happened and a wheel slipped out and I hit the deck. Still not been on a bike in 7 weeks, when my head hit the slab I was glad I was wearing a lid, this time last year clipped a branch which flung me over the bars, wrote off a lid, neither trail was at my limits.
Still your choice unless your racing or in an event in which case it's not.
When you walk on the road do you ware a helmet molgrips?
The point everyone who does not always ware a helemt is trying to make is that there is such a small risk of having a bad head injery when cycling on the road (not racing e.t.c) that it is not the massivly dangerous activity that people make it out to be. Simalar risks would be using a step ladder without a helmet, walking on wet rocks without a helmet. there are increased risks there I suspect grater than that of cycling but no one gets their knickers in a twist about people doing those activities sans helmet.
I wear one. Have done for 20+ years. Once hit a car at red lights, absolutely, sentient my fault but ended up on the parcel shelf of the poor unsuspecting motorist.
I cut my chin but didn't have so much as a bruised forehead. I can imagine it would have hurt note had I not been wearing a helmet. Everyone has lapses of concentration so to say you'll never have an ' at fault' accident when on the road is naive tui day the least.
Just a thought as well, haven't deaths and serious had injuries come down in cars since airbags have been fitted as standard? Suggests having something between you head and something hard is usually a good thing.
if our roads were as safe as Copenhagen I'd happily cruise around without a helmet, sadly the reality isn't like that here.
+
Just a couple small pointsA cycle helmet is not designed to provide protection in the case of a collision with another motor vehicle.
And that's even more curious isn't it?
We accept that if it weren't for all those pesky cars that drive into us, we'd be fine without them, yet we also accept that they're not designed to protect against an impact from a car.
So the kind of impact they are designed for would surely be just as common in Copenhagen? ie: non vehicle-induced accident which results in a bump on the noggin.
Mostly people seem to accept that the risk of a head injury while just bimbling to the shops on the pavement or a cycle path is low enough that it doesn't require a helmet, in the same way that walking to the shops doesn't, in Aracers words 'acceptably low'. Yet the fear of being hit by a vehicle causes a lot of us to change the assessment.
As usual this isn't an discussion about 'helmets' in isolation, it's about the level of risk (perceived and actual) in riding a bike on British roads, and the bizarre notion that the most appropriate way to combat that is to start armouring the vulnerable instead of tackling the (external) source of the danger.
*ignoring sport, as pretty much everyone seems to be in agreement that they're no bad thing if you're going to be bouncing around off trees.
We all know that in Holland and the like they don't wear helmets but do you think some of this is to do with the types of bikes they ride. Whenever you see pictures they are always riding the classic dutch bike that doesn't have a top tube. This is not really a speed daemon and is far easier to mount and dismount without falling off. The majority of times I have come off my bike when commuting is mud, wet leaves, oil, going to fast, etc and not anything to do with cars. Just wondering if you ride a type of bike which you can't go as fast on, is a more sit up and beg design and is easier to jump off, does this reduce the amount of times you fall off and therefore need a helmet. In the UK you hardly ever see these types of bikes. Is the danger with cycling on the roads all to do with cars or is it the types of bikes we ride?
I should also say that I have completely smashed helmets both off road and on road with no fault of others and either as pure accident or my own fault. When I think back, if I didn't have a helmet on I think I would be in a sorry sorry state now. When I broke my collar bone at Cwn Carn my helmet was decimated. That would have proper smarted.
A cycle helmet is not designed to provide protection in the case of a collision with another motor vehicle. Expecting any piece of safety equipment to perform outwith it's original design is at best unwise.
That's just ridiculous. Just because it's not designed specifically to do it, doens't mean it won't.
Bottom line - I don't mind wearing one, and it I believe it will offer more protection than nothing. It's really very simple indeed. The antis are making a huge deal out of this. I wonder why? Is it being made into a personal issue perhaps?
it is not the massivly dangerous activity that people make it out to be.
Talk to them then, not me. I'm not making it out to be massively dangerous - if it was, I wouldn't be doing it!
Is the danger with cycling on the roads all to do with cars or is it the types of bikes we ride?
99% <-> 1%
Is my guess* but if you can find evidence that a significant portion of accidents are caused by having a top tube I'll gladly change my mind!
FWIW, dutch bikes may be easy to dismount, but they are not as easy to stop, they are mostly heavy old lumps with crappy crappy brakes.
* saying 'cars' is a little unfair, it's a combination of our crappy infrastructure and the attitude of [i]some [/i]people operating vehicles of various kinds.
Bottom line - I don't bother wearing one on the road, I believe it offers protection for something that's not going to happen so why bother. It's really very simple indeed. The pros are making a huge deal out of this. I wonder why? Is it being made into a personal issue perhaps?
Crushed my new Giro Atmos into the side of a 4x4 at 20 mph. Broke lots of things (15 fractures), but not my skull (Six facial fractures immediately below the helmet line. Not even a headache, nor concussion.
Helmets are not designed to smash apart, just crush and decelerate the brain slightly slower than a direct impact. Mine did just that and it is easy to see the crumpled zone (i'll post a photo later). A simple sum shows that this impact is the same as a fall from about 4m onto a flat surface. Helmets are tested for a drop of 2m. So it did its job#.
I bought another and always wear one, for the next @#*% that turns across me without warning.
#Saved me a likely skull fracture and some probable concussion but none of this "saved my life" nonsense, please.
I believe it offers protection for something that's not going to happen
You think you're never going to be knocked off?
molgrips - MemberI believe it offers protection for something that's not going to happen
You think you're never going to be knocked off?
I believe it offers protection for something that's not going to happen so why bother. It's really very simple indeed.
is this post genuine or am I seeing things? (possible head concussion??)
muddy9mtb - Memberis this post genuine or am I seeing things? (possible head concussion??)
Heaven forbid somebody has an opinion contrary to yours.
Per journey, using the deaths per km figures from earlier in the thread and the average journey lengths cited in the link above you are three times more likely to be be killed on every bicycle journey.
Kilo is NEVER going to be knocked off his bike on the road.
Why are you so confident?
Yup, but that's the crux of it, relative vs absolute risk. "3 times more likely" doesn't mean it's likely, it just means it's less unlikely. It's not in itself an argument for protection.
(I wear a helmet on the road; but I think the statistical/logical argument for it is pretty bloody weak frankly and not helped by the very low level of helmet standards. It's not been proved to my satisfaction that it's worthwhile but that's OK because I don't need it to be proven, most risk calls we make aren't based on proof. You'd feel a right arse if you woke up dead because of a 1-in-a-million preventable head injury.)
If you replace kilo's "not going to" with "vanuishingly unlikely to" then it makes perfect sense. Basically once a specific risk gets so small, it's not unreasonable to treat it as effectively absent.
I know, bad science. But everyone else is chipping in with not quite in context statistics and "facts" and I didn't want to feel left out.
[quote=molgrips ]Bottom line - I don't mind wearing one, and it I believe it will offer more protection than nothing.
Yet you presumably do mind wearing one for driving?
Molgrips I suggest you read my post properly. I ve crashed occasionally but not on road for many years, been hit by a ford Capri as a kid and never sustained any head injuries. So we're looking at a rare occurrence on top of another rare occurrence, better rush out and buy a lid now. Obviously there are my person opinions it's all down to free will not prescription
Heaven forbid somebody has an opinion contrary to yours
blimey you got one from that? your special kilo.
This post is whack, where one don't wear one... nobody's gonna shout at the op for not wearing one, personally I don't mind wearing one, occasionally I don't who gives a cr..
I ve crashed occasionally but not on road for many years, been hit by a ford Capri as a kid and never sustained any head injuries.
I've never been hit, nor sustained head injuries. However it happens quite a bit, just ask on here. I'm not going assume it won't happen just because it hasn't happened yet.
I don't think people injuring their heads whilst doing things other than cycling is as common.. but I could be wrong.. perhaps we should have a poll?
If you replace kilo's "not going to" with "vanuishingly unlikely to"
I don't accept it's vanishingly unlikely. We get weekly threads on here about accidents involving cars. At least one story of head impacts due to cars on this very thread. I don't call that vanishingly.
i havent worn a helmet ever apart from racing, really dont like the sweat box aspect-also it feels wrong--,curiously some of the most experienced road cyclists i know -these are people who have raced at a high level ,also do not wear helmets on club runs etc---are we all idiots , or have we taken a risk assesment from years of experience and decided the trade off isnt worth it --as has been pointed out , they are not really designed to do much....
TiRed - Member
#Saved me a likely skull fracture and some probable concussion
I could have picked on many - how do you KNOW this?
I was taken out earlier this year in a hit and run! I went head first into the car that had pulled in front of me at over 25mph. On the road bike and on the drops so a pile drive head on into the side of a car.The force was strong enough to clean snap my carbon forks and bend the front skewer! I have a compression fracture in my back. 3 stitches in my face!
No concussion though and very thankful I had a lid on.
I would also add I'm coming up to ten years of almost daily commuting without any prior serious incident. I could have easily took the view that I don't need a lid!
nobody's gonna shout at the op for not wearing one
I think the problem is, that actually people [b]are[/b] starting to shout/tell people off for not wearing one.
It's certainly been used in some judgements and statements by law enforcement with regard to laying some of the blame on victims when they are seriously hurt and weren't wearing one, not to mention people on this very thread calling people 'moron' for not wearing one.
That is where it becomes unacceptable.
I think in this case anecdotal evidence is actually the best . Everybody can find studies to support their views both pro and anti . I know wearing a helmet over the years has at least saved me from a few cuts and bruises and possibly worse . I've heard a rider behind crashing without a helmet and a sound like throwing a water melon at the road which was her head into a wall , she developed a lisp and was drooling from one side of her mouth for a few weeks but did eventually heal and continued to ride without a helmet . Bottom line is you do what you think best I just can't understand why people are so against something that you really don't even notice that you are wearing when you have it on and it could save you from a serious injury , or even save you from a minor injury .
molgrips - MemberI don't accept it's vanishingly unlikely.
3 casualties per billion miles says it is. Or if you prefer, 553 KSIs per billion kilometers. And that's casualties/KSIs full stop, not preventable head injuries that a helmet would have helped.
I think in this case anecdotal evidence is actually the best
Ah well, in that case I've never damaged a helmet whilst riding on the road, and I've never witnessed anybody doing so. Therefore clearly my position is correct.
I just can't understand why people are so against something that you really don't even notice that you are wearing when you have it on and it could save you from a serious injury , or even save you from a minor injury
So you wear one whilst driving?
You mean three deaths?
The number of anecdotes on here about people hitting their heads suggests that head impacts are not that rare, even if deaths are.
If I'm going to hit my head on something I'd rather it was protected even a bit. Not unreasonable, is it?
So you wear one whilst driving?
🙄 good stats or stfu about that.
So you wear one whilst driving?
This.
Sorry Mol, I did a wee edit to add better stats.
As I say, I wear a helmet but I don't think you can browbeat people with the stats here, or really make a convincing argument that the risks of a- very specific this- serious head injury which could reasonably be prevented or significantly reduced by a helmet- are anything but miniscule.
That doesn't equate to an argument against helmets either though.
So you wear one whilst driving?
Been driving for nearly 40 years and never been in an accident where wearing a helmet would have made any difference so based on my anecdotal evidence I consider it safe to trust my driving skills + a seatbelt + an airbag to keep me safe .
As I say, I wear a helmet but I don't think you can browbeat people with the stats here
Thankyou!
or really make a convincing argument that the risks of a- very specific this- serious head injury which could reasonably be prevented or significantly reduced by a helmet- are anything but miniscule.
Not sure about that. The addition of two inches of crumple zone would seem to me to reduce deceleration on the brain. You'd have to come up with a very good argument why it *wouldn't* help to convince me.
The addition of two inches of crumple zone would seem to me to reduce deceleration on the brain
Whether or not that reduction will be in any way meaningful is of course where the debate comes in. Also as far as incidents with a car (or other vehicle) are concerned, there is also the issue of injuries to internal organs, but hey lets not complicate things by considering all the possible consequences.
By all means wear a helmet if you consider the risk to be worth it but leave others to make up their own minds too.
Edit.
Although it is curious why you wouldn't apply the same logic to any other similar situations.
The logic for me is quite different. I make a living and support my family by thinking about things with my brain and predominantly communicating those valuable thoughts by typing them into a computer with my hands.
In order to protect these valuable money spinning assets of mine whilst carrying out WHAT I PERCEIVE TO BE any activities that might be risky, I wear the appropriate protection.
I have spent the vast majority of my adult working life on building sites and am obliged to wear a helmet and gloves and boots and glasses and hi viz clothing although my personal exposure to risk is statistically miniscule.
When i'm working in the garden, i'll wear boots / gloves as appropriate.
When I drive I wear a seatbelt, have traction control / airbags switched on.
Given my averse attitude to personal risk it is significant, TO ME, that of all the potentially hazardous activities that I carry out, tho only time i've sustained any injuries was when I went OTB 4 weeks ago and broke two ribs because a dog ran in front of me.
You do what you like. Every time I ride my bike I'm wearing a helmet.... and gloves.
The addition of two inches of crumple zone would seem to me to reduce deceleration on the brain.
Depends if it crumples. It doesn't take much energy to split a piece of polystyrene.
I wear a helmet when I am out on a proper ride (MTB) but I doubt the effectiveness of these pie crusts on my head. I think it saves you from certain cuts and scrapes, but don't feel that a broken lid signifies any great saving to life, they break pretty easy it's part of the design.
Speaking with a paramedic who has attended 50+ bike accidents some fatal. Her opinion was that the wearing of a helmet can greatly increase the chance of a broken neck, the increased forces are exponential radially and lets face it a broken neck is a game changer, the new MIPS system goes some way to address the issue (internal slip plain) but they are a long way form the safety status people choose to believe and can cause more harm than good.
Al as I said, probably. I had a fractured temple, fractured cheekbone, blown out eye socket, fractured maxilla. But above the helmet line, just crushing of the shell. Helmets shouldn't really split but crush to slow deceleration. Mine did just that, and I'm pleased with its performance. I've had other spills racing, one of which did save a back of the head bang onto road, but again, I don't make huge claims regarding life-saving, nor would I describe myself as a zealot. Personal choice for adults is my view.
Still glad I was wearing it 😉 just wish I'd been wearing wrist guards too!
molgrips - MemberNot sure about that. The addition of two inches of crumple zone would seem to me to reduce deceleration on the brain. You'd have to come up with a very good argument why it *wouldn't* help to convince me.
That's not what I said 😕 I was pointing out that the KSI stats already show cycling to be a safe activity, but that you also need to take into account how specific the job helmets do is- they can't stop all head-related KSIs and they do nothing for anything else. So you're looking then at a fraction of a small number.
I seem to remember that somebody came up with a figure of 16 deaths a year
A helmet won't help you in an accident with another vehicle ?
Here is as much as I know of my anecdote . I was ridding along in a bus lane a car came in at 90 degrees hitting me side on , I was then physically upside down looking through the windscreen then on the bonnet for aprox 8 yards then in the sideroad the car had been aiming for. to put it mildly I felt in a bad way but luckily had only soft tissue injuries and abrasions to legs and head.
My helmet had a dint in the side from a side impact from the car while I was in the air and coming down (according to the witness) and a massive flat patch on the top from my full on landing on the top of my head.
Anecdotally but for the helmet I would not be typing this or I would have something more than mild dyslexia to blame my bad typing on.
Anyone got any good stats on the incidence of head injury in reported cycling accidents where the rider wore a helmet versus those that didn't?
Some people do seem to miss the difference between probability and risk. Yes, you are very, very unlikely to be involved in an accident that could result in a head injury. However, common sense suggests the risk of injury to your head if you are and weren't wearing a helmet is high. Does this have any basis in fact? The stats would help, but my instinct still says wear a helmet.
Anecdotally, I know of two people involved in road cycling accidents where their head met the tarmac. The one with a helmet got up and dusted himself off, the other spent a week in a Coma.
When I had a big off and punctured a lung, the Doctors were more concerned about whether I'd been wearing a helmet. The obvious injury I presented was relatively easy to treat, their concern lay with 'hidden' damage from possible head trauma. I was wearing a lid, I have no idea if I hit my head - the lid was scuffed but everything hurt, the Doctors were satisfied I'd done no damage. I'm glad I had it on.
That's not what I said
I know.
they can't stop all head-related KSIs and they do nothing for anything else
But they can stop or mitigate SOME ksis?
molgrips - MemberBut they can stop or mitigate SOME ksis?
Yep, of course. That is exactly what I'm saying.
Thought I'd post this to show what a helmet that did not save my life looks like after impact. Rear helmet, 20 mph impact with the side of a 4x4 was at the right temple at the Giro logo. No shattering, nothing dramatic, but if you look closely, you'll see the crushed cells under the shell. If you add a little force, you'll also find a crack through at the point of impact - but nothing again, dramatic. It's comfortable, fits me well and did what I expected. If you wear one, make sure it fits properly. If you don't, watch out for Mercedes ML's turning right 😉
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@TallPaul. Why not apply that sam logic to many othe things we do in day to day life. The P of hittign ones head when workign on a step ladder is or walking is small but if you do fall the risk of having head injery is higher if you don't ware a helmet. What you are really reffering to is the P(seriosue head injery|you have fallen off a bike and hit your head). Even this is quite samll. Waring helmet is fine, but not warign one is not massive irrisponsible risk. Espcialy when compared to many other activites where one would not consider waring a helmet in most situations.
Having read a fair bit of the thread, all I can surmise is that there is no other topic that will make intelligent people irrational (see use of "anecdotally") and bring out ad hominem withing single figures of posts.
So much for intelligent debate.
helmets increase the risk of injury. All the riders I have known who have had serious head injuries have been wearing a lid.
Steer well clear, proper dangerous things.
@TheBrick, to an extent I do apply the same logic to a myriad of situations. However, with cycling a large proportion of the risk is out of your control. I could ride sensibly, wear visible clothing, have a well maintained bike and still another road user could cause me to have an off. I don't actually worry about any sort of accident, least of all one caused by my own neglect or stupidity. Such an iostensibly reasonable step in mitigating risk really doesn't take much thought or effort.
I also fail to see where the debate is warranted. The wearing of a helmet, just like riding at all is personal choice. I don't judge others or question their motivations. But I'm happy to discuss my own.
I've not read all that. Have we solved the internet helmet debate?
A friend fractured their skull while not wearing a helmet. She was walking her dog so now I always wear a helmet while walking the dog, but not for walking to the shop.
I couldn't give a toss if any of you wear a helmet or not.
If I see you on the ground after a crash all I need are your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle/Audi.
Oh and your wallet.
However, with cycling a large proportion of the risk is out of your control.
Same goes for plenty other activities we don't wear helmets for. Statistically cycling is safe. Of course we all have different levels of skill and different riding environments.
If you think cycling is dangerous wearing a helmet won't make it safe.
The TRL review suggested that helmets might save 10-16% of fatalities. If I think an activity is dangerous then someone saying "here, wear this, it's now 16% safer" isn't going to make me feel safe.
http://road.cc/content/news/12058-ctc-slams-transport-research-laboratory-cycle-helmet-report
Here's my anecdote to add to the 'evidence' pile.
I don't know anyone who has died from a cycling injury. There have been many concussions, lacerations, and all the other injuries you can get from hitting your head, some of them serious, but I don't know anyone who has actually died.
My neighbor slipped on ice on the steps outside his front door and bumped his head. He seemed fine but died the next day from a brain hemorrhage.
The question you have to ask is, if Brandon had been wearing a helmet would he be here right now telling us all about the time a helmet saved his life?
A practical question, what do helmet wearers do with your helmet when you go to the shops?
Do you carry it around with you? If so, do you put your basket or your helmet down when you pick up a carton of milk.
Do you put it in your basket? If so, do you find it limits the amount of food you can buy in a single trip.
Do you leave it outside attached to your bike? If so, are you comfortable with the fact that someone might damage it while you're away? After all, as helmet manufacturers are always telling us, you can't tell from the outside if a helmet is damaged or not.
I started considering wearing a helmet after my last accident since it resulted in four stitches in my forehead and five to stitch my ear back together. In the end I decided it was a better idea to just avoid drinking ten pints and cycling home so now I take the bus after a night out.
what do helmet wearers do with your helmet when you go to the shops?
Either leave it on my head if it's a quick trip, or put it in the trolley if it's a big trip, sometimes I leave it in the trailer, and no I can't say I've ever worried about some miscreant damaging my helmet while I'm in the shops.
Does this really require that much thought?
Does this really require that much thought?
I was taking the piss a bit but yes, I think it should take a bit of thought. Bicycle helmets are very fragile and much more susceptible to damage than most people think, damage that you can't see.
Maybe I'm being overly cautious but I'm very anal about taking car of my helmets when they're not on my head. I once binned a helmet because my bike fell over onto it. I don't even think the frame made contact but why take the risk?
I just hope that people who use helmets for everyday activity take into account the damage that normal wear and tear can cause. I would say it's worth having a cheap helmet that gets replaced often for everyday riding and a good one for when you go mountain biking that you treat like the delicate flower it is.
Or just don't bother using a helmet for everyday activity.
I have it hanging from my elbow generally. It's not an issue for me. Sometimes if I only want a few things I use it as the basket.
It is probably better to use it as a basket than a helmet. It would at least save your delicate goods from damage as it is actually designed to deal with a drop from a few feet and tested for that.