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Just came across this video and article.
[url= http://www.964eagle.co.uk/news/local-news/1780636/watch-helmet-saves-cyclists-life-in-the-surrey-hills/ ]jumpcrashunconscious[/url]
Some really good work by the guys who helped.
Other than the age old debate about helmets, personally I think not wearing a helmet is just plain silly but that's just me.
What is the app/tool with the grid reference?
and
Wonder if this prompted (assuming he was made aware of this incident) the landowner (MF) to take necessary action on MBR/Evian and the new jump trail which ran below that.
"Andy" is a lucky bloke. Very fortunate to fall off in front of someone who knew what he was doing.
Doff my cap to Tim Rowsell.
The App is [url=GB Grid Ref Worker by Mike Irving https://appsto.re/gb/BG41F.i ]GB Grid Ref Worker[/url] I think. Useful app.
Other than the age old debate about helmets, personally I think not wearing a helmet is just plain silly but that's just me.
Well, if you're a clueless nodder like the chap in the video, then yes. But if you know how to ride a bike properly, then not wearing a helmet is absolutely fine.
Helmet 'saves cyclist's life'
Looks like the impact was taken by his face not by his helmet - maybe a full face one might have helped.
Well, if you're a clueless nodder like the chap in the video, then yes. But if you know how to ride a bike properly, then not wearing a helmet is absolutely fine.
yes, because no one who knows what they're doing has ever fallen off and banged their head in the history of cycling.
not that helmets are the be all and end all of cycling safety, but they have saved my noggin on numerous occasions.
Whilst one has never saved my "noggin" in forty years...just for balance.
Well, if you're a clueless nodder like the chap in the video, then yes. But if you know how to ride a bike properly, then not wearing a helmet is absolutely fine.
who is the clueless one here, I wonder...
What helmet for trollin...
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I've a corporate grid finder app(lone worker) , came in very handy when we found a kid with concussion in Friston. Also the St. John's app helped to remind me to check things I'd missed in the heat of the moment.
Whilst one has never saved my "noggin" in forty years...just for balance
Yer obviously not trying hard enough then.
Not so sure what the helmet did in that one to be honest, maybe it made the accident worse by acting as a lever ?
The one thing they teach you in first aid courses is don't let the casualty move. Having been first on seen at a RTA, all I can say to you is good luck on that one. Like this guy in the vid the first reaction of some one who has been unconscious is to move around once they become conscious, and it's really hard to stop them.
I don't think the guy filming did great to be honest.
Always wear a helmet guys...cause you never know
I had a crash a few years back ....I got knock out ....and came around a few seconds later with my helmet scraping along the Tarmac ....if I didn't have my lid on ....half my skin could have come off instead of a few scratches on the lid.
The point is no matter how careful you are ....anything can happen
Plan for the worst....hope for the best!!
That'll be an iron man suit then.
what cheekyget said - I'm a tame wheels on the ground bridleway mincer, but the last two times I've come off - ice and then a muddy rock - it's been my head that has made an impact on the ground, enough to leave me woozy for a few minutes.
I'm not in favour of compulsion, but I will always use one based on my experience.
Plan for the worst....hope for the best!!
so you wear it in the shower and in the car where the risk of a head injury is just as likely as on the bike?
IIRC its actually greater in a car
Me depends what I ride mince along the canal probably wont bother
Off road almost certainly will bother
Road it all depends on how I feel
tbh I do wear a helmet when I intend to ride with any vigour, but i can't help responding to the "always wear a helmet because I once fell off..." type posts because they are just so ******** stupid.
tbh I do wear a helmet when I intend to ride with any vigour, but i can't help responding to the "always wear a helmet because I once fell off..." post because they are just so ******** stupid.
Isn't that a bit like only wearing a Rubber Johnny when you sleep with prozzies?
so you wear it in the shower and in the car where the risk of a head injury is just as likely as on the bike?
How many people fall over in the shower - is it age related ? Then maybe they should be wearing helmets.
Ignoring the ****s up there 🙄 , props to the guys who helped Andy. Really puts into perspective the dangers of riding alone. Stay safe folks!!
Isn't that a bit like only wearing a Rubber Johnny when you sleep with prozzies?
If thats your crude way of suggesting I'm measuring risk, yes
Isn't that a bit like only wearing a Rubber Johnny when you sleep with prozzies?
No.
It's a bit like only wearing a helmet when you get in a racing car, and not when you drive to the shops.
And it's a bit like wearing a helmet when you climb a vertical rock face, and not when you walk up stairs.
No, when you are on the road anyone can take you out at any time, you have little or sometimes no chance to do anything about it.
When you are on the trails you can choose whether to hit the jump or go full on DH down each descent,or miss out a gnarly section, you have the choice how risky you want to ride.
Baffles me how people think its safer on the roads.
How many people fall over in the shower - is it age related
No, it is a water induced slippery surface.
The car example is better though, how many people wear a helmet when driving?
If you don't then you need to think why that is and they go back and think why you do when cycling.
Baffles me how people think its safer on the roads.
I have more crashes of road than on road. TBH its a certainty that if I continue to ride a MTB i will have another accident, This certainty does not exist on the road.
TBH I assume it a certainty for all of us unless we just bimble on gravel roads.
"Clueless nodder". I'm sorry? You of course podium at amateur enduro and DH races no doubt?
Stop digging and building jumps on private land.
Innocent members of the public get hurt all because of men who think they are cool or hip in someway. Goes back to that fella who seems to like stoking ill feeling in good decent landowners of the area.
TBH if you ride a new area and you cannot stop for any trial feature you cannot really blame either nature or whomever built it as every time you ride somewhere new who knows what is next - except trail centres where it is all rollable
Not having a go at the poor fella who crashed but he clearly did not try to avoid that he did that intentionally
We all have a moment where our skill meets our enthusiasm in a painful way. Nan Bield I am looking at you
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riding a smooth forest path that you may have ridden previously but then someone digs our a (insert any size) jump or double can throw anyone.
Nan bield = you know what to expect
If you haven't ridden something before then its always good to be cautious but then you get a feeling it's going to have a bite or another rider prewarns.
Oh good a helmet "debate"...
Ride what you like, where you like, wearing whatever you like...
But if you feel the need to preach to a bike forum (probably ~90% helmet users?) about the wonders of foam hats, then kindly just **** off, we've heard it all before, we can all assess the risks for ourselves ta...
Try twitter they love uninformed blather there...
Ride what you like, where you like, wearing whatever you like...
But if you feel the need to preach to a bike forum (probably ~90% helmet users?) about the wonders of foam hats, then kindly just **** off, we've heard it all before, we can all assess the risks for ourselves ta...
Try twitter they love uninformed blather there...
Perfectly put, copied for the next time it crops up.
Looks to me like the guy had no idea it was a gap jump and not rollable. Based on what he was wearing he didn't look like the type of rider to be jumping gaps deliberately. More like an occasional / novice rider.
Always wear a helmet
I still can't see why wearing a helmet made a difference. He did a face plant and got knocked out
Always wear a helmet
*puts helmet on before cooking dinner*
🙂
And it's a bit like wearing a helmet when you climb a vertical rock face, and not when you walk up stairs.
Except the main reason you wear a helmet when climbing is to protect from rocks falling from above.
Do people throw rocks at you while you climb your stairs?
And it's a bit like wearing a helmet when you climb a vertical rock face, and not when you walk up stairs.
I used to hate wearing a helmet when climbing. I kept banging my head. It caused some panic in France once after a cry of "Pierre" from above. It took a split second to realise he wasn't shouting to his mate.
Anyway, perhaps I'm crap at riding a bike as I've landed on my head twice mountain biking so I'm not about to stop wearing a helmet.
It's a bit like only wearing a helmet when you get in a racing car, and not when you drive to the shops.
Good analogy. Regardless of the rest of the debate on this thread, I have often wondered how to distinguish between those times when I wear a helmet (when mountain biking, and doing 'proper' road rides), and those when I don't (when commuting), and this helps.
I'm not sure why this had to turn into a helmet debate. I wish we'd just concentrate on what an amazing effort the guy put into keeping Andy safe until the ambulance came. We could all probably learn a thing or two from his performance.
I'm not sure why this had to turn into a helmet debate. I wish we'd just concentrate on what an amazing effort the guy put into keeping Andy safe until the ambulance came. We could all probably learn a thing or two from his performance.
To be fair, I got Mrs SR and SR juniors to watch the clip because it was both moving and instructional. The actions of the guy with the GoPro were phenomenal.
I posted this mainly to highlight the efforts of Tim and his mates in keeping the guy safe.
I was quite impressed with the grid reference app thingy as well.
I appreciate the whole helmet thing is a hot potato. In hindsight I should have amended the subject heading...
Why what did the guy with the Go Pro do that was so amazing?
Not amazing just a little selfless helping a fellow biker and making sure he was looked after ,after a nasty out the front moment , Fair play to Tim , just a little shock the first words from Andys mounth wernt
" is mi bike ok ?"
Why what did the guy with the Go Pro do that was so amazing?
Um, I admire anyone who stays cool in a situation, knows what to, and keeps others safe. Even if the GoPro guy (Tim) just displayed skills possessed by many first-aiders, he still deployed them well and to good effect.
is mi bike ok ?
So I was wrong he is a real mountain biker
fanatic278 - MemberI'm not sure why this had to turn into a helmet debate. I wish we'd just concentrate on what an amazing effort the guy put into keeping Andy safe until the ambulance came. We could all probably learn a thing or two from his performance.
+1!
[quote=fanatic278 ]I'm not sure why this had to turn into a helmet debate.
Probably something to do with the inflammatory title of the article and the thread. I watched the vid expecting to find no evidence of the helmet having saved his life and wasn't disappointed.
no helmet :
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aracer
. I watched the vid expecting to find no evidence of the helmet having saved his life and wasn't disappointed.
Like all these things, unless you ask the victim to go back, this time without a helmet, and do EXACTLY the same thing again, there is no way of knowing what his helmet did or didn't.
(and in this case, the filming doesn't actually capture the impact in any detail)
But anyway, massive [b]Thumbs Up[/b] to the guy filming, staying calm and doing a great job imo! Deffo the sort of guy you want to have around when the head hits the ground........ 😉
I posted this mainly to highlight the efforts of Tim and his mates in keeping the guy safe.
Well as the subect was helmet saves life it's hardly a surprise when people talk about helmets.
Exactly, the title should have been "Tim saves cyclists life" (as the onsite assistance provided was the story here and what made the difference)
My mate lost a couple of fingers in a car door, should he wear crush proof gloves for driving?
You could always just wear two hoodies, if you preferred.
https://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/reference/lifesavers/
My mate lost a couple of fingers in a car door, should he wear crush proof gloves for driving?
No, because losing a couple of fingers is liveable and the risk is low. He should be wearing a helmet though.
[quote=kerley ]
should he wear crush proof gloves for driving?
He should be wearing a helmet though.
For driving? I presume you weren't suggesting one for lower risk activities.
I have a similar pic to Turnerguy on my old phone, mate turns up at mine on a nice day at the weekend in his bike....'fancy a blast and then we'll go for a pint?'.....sounded good so off we went, just jeans, trainers and t-shirts....went hammering down a long steep road we'd ridden loads that has a sharp right at the bottom.
Turned into that right bend, mate ahead made it through....i didn't despite having ridden it loads of times....diesel on the road?...oil?....who knows?!....ended up on my side attached to the bike sliding along the road, at some point my clothing must've snagged and I went onto my back using the rear and top of my head as a brake against the tarmac....the mess it made of my scalp wasn't pretty.....thankfully it was all superficial, no fractured skull, no neck injury etc....but I clipper my hair short and scared children for the next few weeks until things healed....it also hurt quite a bit!
Point is you never know when the surface is going to change and spit you on your arse, I always wear a helmet on the road now for that reason alone....i know it won't protect my feeble body from being crushed by an HGV, I know it won't stop a car wheel from crushing my cranium.....but to be honest if you've ended up in one of those situations you've been the instigator of your own stupidity. I wear the helmet for my cock ups, not the actions of others I have no control over.
My favorite riding is uplift days, had a fantastic 2015 at FoD, BPW, BMCC, Antur Stiniog etc....i wouldn't ride those runs with half the commitment i usually do if my dome was uncovered, the thought of smashing down onto the rocks at Antur without a helmet terrifies me....it would be a boring day as I tip toed down the runs feathering the brakes and not getting near my limits purely in order to make some kind of statement about not wearing a lid!
Each to their own, I go without a helmet plenty of times however, usually high summer when I want some sun on my face/head and go for a pootle with the dogs at barely walking speed through the local woods....before anyone says it, yes I know freak accidents happen and I could still fall and fracture my skull at nodding pace but it's about your own personal assessment of risk.
When I go for a road ride I'm actively trying to maintain a high average speed, I'm looking to belt downhill and see what numbers come up on the computer....at an uplift day I'm trying to get faster ready for my next pitiful attempt at racing....when I'm pulling the tail of the tiger like that it seems daft not to protect my faculties.
I've come off my bike loads over the years, I know it hurts and over rough ground it can become an inherently unstable activity....i've never in my 38yrs shut my hand in a car door, fallen over in the shower, fallen down stairs or any of the other accidents some people have suggested wearing protective gear for...in my experience they're low risk so no helmet for me, coming off my bike however happens several times a year when I'm trying something new or pushing on...so for me the risk is considerably higher.
Thats fine and you have assessed the risk for yourself based on the fact you have fallen off of your bike much more than come to any harm doing anything else.
A lot of people have been in car accidents where a helmet would have helped greatly so why is there not the same discussion on wearing helmets in cars? (and proper helmets that are proven to work i.e. motorcycle helmets, car racing helmets etc,.)
One interesting thing is that the OPs video actually shows one factor that i think is quite important.
Namely, when riding a bike, even at low speeds and not doing anything heroic, the tendancy (for a lot of people) is not to let go of the handle bars if you fall off! This tends to rotate the body forwards, and slap your face/head into the ground with some force!
People say "you don't wear a helmet when you walk through the park, you're just as likely to fall over on foot" and whilst that could be true (especially for the infirm or elderly) i've yet to go OTB whilst just walking.
Watch the OPs video, the unfortunate rider totally misjudges the jump, the front of the bike plummets (he possibly also grabs some brake at the last minute maybe), he fails to let go of the bars (it's instinctive to try to "ride it out") and he eats dirt. He wasn't going that fast in reality, but the revolution around the back wheel was enough to cause a pretty hard slap down.
@kerley car safety development has been focused on design issues like brakes, crumple zones amd airbags. Somthere has been a lot of effort put intomsafety. When driving in higher risk areas like circuits helmets are compulsory.
I really don't see how anyone can argue against helmets on mountain bikes off road and frankly on-road too.
kerleyA lot of people have been in car accidents
not really. Most people i've met have never been in any kind of serious car accident (serious enough to warrant a helmet). Also, modern cars have a lot of system designed to protect you (airbags, crumpe zones, pre-tensioners, door bars, active seat / body supports etc) In effect, these ARE you virtual helmet, sat there waiting to protect you if you need them!
ie
...i wouldn't ride those runs with half the commitment i usually do if my dome was uncovered,
= Risk Compensation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation
So wearing a helmet makes you more likely to crash in the first place.
not really. Most people i've met have never been in any kind of serious car accident (serious enough to warrant a helmet). Also, modern cars have a lot of system designed to protect you (airbags, crumpe zones, pre-tensioners, door bars, active seat / body supports etc) In effect, these ARE you virtual helmet,
The fact remains that in 2013 785 car occupants were killed versus 109 cyclists. Why not try and "save the lives" of those 785? And despite the "virtual helmets" 50% of the dead car occupants had skull fractures.
http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/wounds/blunt-force-trauma/patterns/road-traffic-collisions/
I really don't see how anyone can argue against helmets on mountain bikes off road and frankly on-road too.
But you can see how they can argue against them in cars. And presumably also when, for instance, walking on the pavement and crossing the road? And going out and getting drunk? If you wear a helmet for those things then I salute your consistency; but if you don't, yet still think it's unreasonable to ride round a park without a helmet, then I would seriously question your approach to risk.
The fact remains that in 2013 785 car occupants were killed versus 109 cyclists. Why not try and "save the lives" of those 785? And despite the "virtual helmets" 50% of the dead car occupants had skull fractures.http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/wounds/blunt-force-trauma/patterns/road-traffic-collisions/
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Good post - exactly what I was getting at.
That pic is horrific and says it all for me quite frankly, I'd be very interested to know how the poor guy is doing now!!!