[Closed] Helmet on road?

I don't on road either.

I see quite a few roadies round my way not wearing helmets, but I always wear mine; even just for the 1.5mile cycle to the local Tesco; feels wrong not wearing it.

I do.

There we go, both sides covered.

[/Thread Closed]

99.9999999% of the time, yes. Modern helmets are light and well ventilated so I don't really see a reason not to.

The law says you have free choice.

I wear one simply because it might one day save my life if I land on my head.
Although the last time I fell off on the road I landed on my chin so the helmet made no difference at all!

Trends to be older roadies round my way that don't wear them. I always do except if I'm nipping to the shops down the road.

Sometimes I do, sometimes not.

Modern helmets are light and well ventilated

but not as light and well ventilated as no helmet.

I dont see the point in not wearing one tbh - with the way people drive, why take the risk? After all, you may think that your skills are not going to let you down (fair enough), but the unforseen CAN happen - case example - I got knocked off the bike by a car that hit me from behind, ending up with my head hitting the kerb - no helmet, no me.

I didn't used to but in a previous job many of us cycled and we all had to leave through the first police gate at the same time. This meant that the second police gate just at the exit to the island became the Champs Elysees every night. It was enough to persuade me to wear a helmet.

concrete is hard, cars and trucks are hard, lamposts are hard, heads are soft and squishy. The speed at which your head might hit these hard objects is just as fast as hitting that rock when you come off your MTB. its a no brainer...

I don't. Normally it's just me and the over 60's that are sans helmet.

The law says it us up to you but I'm just going to come out and say it and I don't care if anyone takes offence. I think it is bloody stupid not to wear a helmet and I will not ride with anyone who does not wear one.

I don't. I don't off-road either unless it's a trail centre or an event.

Lots of older (50+) roadies round my way that just wear a cap. Us young guns (49-) tend to wear them.

I always do, wouldn't risk it on the commute and short pootles normally include the kids so I want to set an example to them.

Having seen a good friend come off onto their head at the weekend and the results of the helmet and 3 days in hospital and counting with a fractured vertebrae with another bit of broken bone floating around in it you would wear one.

Basically he got up and we got to hospital, no helmet and it would have been a hearse coming to pick him up.
This is what the doctors said.

The speed he came off at was about the same you get on a road bike/commute.

Make your choice before Darwinism does.

I do on my 4 mile commute.

Set off the other morning without it, got half way there until I relaised and decided to go back for it as it would be just my luck that "today would be the day" that I needed it.

Personal choice. I always wear one on mtb, but on the road it's 50/50. Does feel nice not wearing one and I do ride a lot more carefully if I'm lid free.

Don't bother on my commute, but then it's only a 5 minute pootle. Always wear it one out on the road bike though, feel quite exposed without it. It is quite strange when out on a club run when there are folk not wearing them, have mixed feelings about it as its got potential to really ruin my ride!

The usual helmet saved my life stories. .. Ho hum.

Interesting that the 'old roadies', who will have ridden rather more miles than most seem to have survived.

This will only end in the usual way, so I'm out.

I think it feels weird riding without one as I have been riding with one for so long. A bit like riding with no shorts on but less likely to get you arrested.

You are TJ & I claim my £5. 😯

I just remembered something, those of you who have done speed awareness courses will recognise it!

Apparently the human body (and specifically the skull IIRC) is designed to withstand impacts at up to 20mph as that is as fast as we can run (I can't). Anything over this and we risk serious injury, if you look at a chart of serious injury/death against speed it kicks up quite sharply after 20mph.

So if you're likely to be doing more than 20 you should probably consider wearing a helmet.

I dont see the point in not wearing one tbh - with the way people drive, why take the risk?

Yes, but that assumes a helmet will save you if you get run over. The jury's out on their overall effectiveness tbh.

I wear one because I think they're effective in some situations (mainly mtb), but I'm hardly consistent, considering I don't wear any body armour or a hi viz jacket.

So if you're likely to be doing more than 20 you should probably consider wearing a helmet.

I thought they were tested at 12mph?

I never wore one when I started. Then when the first hardshells (bell Tomac) came out I wore one all the time.

Never fallen on my head off roading, but been whacked loads of times by branches and stuff.

On road I just always wear one.
Then had the 'it saved my life moment' the back wore right down to the bit that holds the pads.

Just last week though my off road ride finished with an uphill and I removed my lid...nice it was.

The old roadies thing is quite interesting. Started road riding in my teens in the late 80's and I think was probably one of the first generation to wear helmets as a matter of course. I'm wondering what prompted this change in thinking? Maybe a push to market by the manufacturers? Better helmet design? I don't think the pro-peleton was obliged to wear helmets until much later (early 2000s'?)

Edit: oldgit, as you say, maybe it was around the time of the hardshell helmet when they actually became effective?

Double edit: similar thing seems to be happening with skiing. A few years ago nobody wore helmets, now everyone seems to wear them. Manufacturer probably saw the gap in the market and had a big marketing push!

So if you're likely to be doing more than 20 you should probably consider wearing a helmet.

I use a helmet 99% of the time.

My mate recently had a car pull out of a side road in front of him. He was in ICU for a number of days, and then HDU for another few weeks. He now has a lot of titanium holding his face together, is missing several teeth, has a fractured vertebrae in his neck (fortunately didn't affect his spinal column), and a very nice scar on his temple coutesy of his helmet breaking due to the impact, plus some other supeficial wounds.

If he hadn't been wearing his helmet he may well have bypassed ICU / HDU and gone straight to the morgue, or alteratively been in a vegetative state for the rest of his life!

My dad and a friend were mowed down by a taxi from behind on their commute to work. My dad was wearing a helmet. It was in bits but saved his head. With a nasty broken leg he was off work for 6 months but made a full recovery.
His mate wasn't so lucky. No helmet, head and neck injuries in hospital for some time. Off work for 1.5 years. Still walks now with a slight stoop.

The police asked to keep the helmet to show kids on safety talks.

I don't understand why people don't wear helmets when road riding. Especially roadies. You won't be so "cool" with a busted head.

The usual helmet saved my life stories. .. Ho hum

Derek Acora to the forum!

This was interesting I thought.

What it is, rotational injury?

Interesting that the 'old roadies', who will have ridden rather more miles than most seem to have survived.

I wear mine almost all the time

I doubt it will save my life but it has reduced the severity of injury on numerous occasions

Only time I ever wear a helmet on the road is if it's required (eg a sportive) or I'm riding in a group. And I'm only 38. Yes I know it may save my life one day, but I just don't like wearing them on the road. in 15 years I've never had a serious road crash (yes, I know!), so I just don't see the point of diminishing the ride experience to counter the miniscule risk of needing one. Yes, it's probably stupid, lazy, illogical, selfish etc but spare me the lectures. I've heard it all before.

Yes, but that assumes a helmet will save you if you get run over. The jury's out on their overall effectiveness tbh.

So you'd rather not wear one on the notion that wearing one might actually make matters worse for you when you get hit? I would have thought simple physics / material science would make it quite clear that head plus road equals messy, whereas head plus road minus durable material equals not so messy?

Whats the attraction / benefit of not wearing one? Aside from not messing up anyone's flowing locks?

To balance the other stories:

I slid on some ice, fell on to a grass verge and hit my head on the ground with not a great deal of force. My helmet still split along the side, so I'm just not convinced they do very much at all in a more serious impact.

TBF older roadies would have grown up on far quieter roads, quieter than any of the younger guys on here could possibly imagine.
Even for me cycling out of London as a teenager I'd hardly see a car, especially on Sundays.
Plus then it was hairnets which were quite useless as my three missing teeth can confirm.

Interesting point on thinking the "ride experience" is better without a helmet. If I go out without one it scares the bejesus out of me, especially when picking up the pace, so ride experience is diminished. I guess it's a similar appeal to open top motoring though!

So you'd rather not wear one on the notion that wearing one might actually make matters worse for you when you get hit? I would have thought simple physics / material science would make it quite clear that head plus road equals messy, whereas head plus road minus durable material equals not so messy?

Whats the attraction / benefit of not wearing one? Aside from not messing up anyone's flowing locks?

Well there is some, albeit far from conclusive, evidence that not wearing a helmet affects the way other road users behave and makes them more likely to give more space. Graeme Obree summed it up quite nicely when he said to look wobbly on your bike to get other user to give you more room.

Never used to wear one on the road before I had kids, but since I insist on them wearing theirs, it's hardly setting a good example if I only wear mine sometimes...

After several years, it now feels so normal that one day when I somehow set off without it, it felt very, very strange..

Apart from the tenuous "rotational injuries" and the ONE study that seemed to suggest a correlation (note: 1 limited study a causal relationship does not identify) between helmets and drivers passing closer, I struggle to see a reason to not wear a helmet, whereas I can see a pretty obvious potential drawback of not doing

but not as light and well ventilated as no helmet.

Not as light, sure, but aren't there manufacturers now claiming that they have designed the vents so well that you get more airflow to the scalp than on a naked head? I may have dreamed that?

Presumably all those saying it is a "no brainer" and that not wearing one is "darwinism" are also wearing head-to-toe high-viz and proper neck/spine armour?

If not then why not? Why put looking cool before your safety? It's a no brainer. 😉

(I mostly wear a helmet these days, having recently bought a new Specialized S3 that I really like and having a daughter to set an example to. But likewise I spent a year not bothering with one on my 11 mile commute and I didn't die).

Well there is some, albeit far from conclusive, evidence that not wearing a helmet affects the way other road users behave and makes them more likely to give more space. Graeme Obree summed it up quite nicely when he said to look wobbly on your bike to get other user to give you more room.

Found that this is true when you have a toddler in a child seat on the back of the bike! Motorists seem to give me a lot more room. Not sure a helmet makes much difference though.

Found that this is true when you have a toddler in a child seat on the back of the bike! Motorists seem to give me a lot more room.

Try a puppy:

[img] [/img]
-- http://bikeyface.com/2011/09/28/perfec-safety-gear/

Try a puppy:

How do you expect motorists to see that? Maybe if you wore the puppy on your head you'd get better protection and greater visibility for motorists.

I wear one off road and very, very rarely on road (if it's required for the event mainly)and that includes club runs, commuting and last year the RvVlaandren sportive, tbh as it's nobody else's business if I choose to wear one or not I don't understand why people get so het up about it, live and let live etc. I'm 46 does that make me a young or old roadie?

I'm 46 does that make me a young or old roadie?

borderline, do you wear a racing cap?

When I had a major off road accident in 2010, my head hit a [b]gravel [/b] trail and my helmet was split in half by the impact.

I consider it sheer luncacy then not to wear one on the road.

Wear one when riding vigorously(road or mtb), not when pootling, so far so good.

I do have a friend though that makes her whole family dress up with hi viz and crappy helmets badly fitted for trip down the local cycle path.

The kids hate cycling and cant wait to get saxo's.

There's another argument that seems to be missing so far: what about the old "helmets make cycling look like a dangerous sport that you need special equipment for rather than a normal form of transport and the stats in Australia showed that when helmets were made compulsory levels of cycling decreased, and the more people who cycle the safer all cyclists are (since other road users expect to encounter them, critical mass and all that) so everyone should not wear helmets to encourage more people to cycle making all cyclists safer" one?

aren't there manufacturers now claiming that they have designed the vents so well that you get more airflow to the scalp than on a naked head?

Check it out (that's not me!)
[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

I don't understand why people get so het up about it, live and let live

edlong - good point but some punctuation would have been nice, I'm out of breath now reading that!

and the more people who cycle the safer all cyclists are (since other road users expect to encounter them, critical mass and all that) so everyone should not wear helmets to encourage more people to cycle making all cyclists safer" one?

Interesting point when applied to big towns and cities. So in times when cycling isn't safe, should we take the long term view and not wear helmets, take the hit, lose a few more cyclists a year.

Would imagine that would probably have a greater impact in the minds of the public than the shift in perception caused by seeing cyclists not wearing helmets.

muppetWrangler - Member

I'm 46 does that make me a young or old roadie?

borderline, do you wear a racing cap?

Yes, racing cap and I have a carradice bag on the commuter - suspect I know the answer to the question now 😀

Presumably all those saying it is a "no brainer" and that not wearing one is "darwinism" are also wearing head-to-toe high-viz and proper neck/spine armour?

Exactly. There comes a point where the risk is low enough to justify not using available safety equipment. IMO the risk of *me* crashing at high speed on the road is low enough to justify not wearing a helmet, as long as I use other mitigating strategies (eg riding completely within myself and not pushing it on descents). Other people will use different criteria and thresholds of risk, which is obviously up to them. It's a situation where there is no right or wrong.

[quote=tonyd ]I don't understand why people get so het up about it, live and let live

This for me, same with RLJ'ing. We all make our choices.
Except that only one of these actions is illegal.

So in times when cycling isn't safe, should we take the long term view and not wear helmets, take the hit, lose a few more cyclists a year.

Except cycling IS safe.

Really. It is.

The fatality levels per mile are roughly the same as walking and I don't see many pedestrians wearing helmets.

I've no idea if mine's ever saved my life but I'm pretty sure it's saved me from some fairly unpleasant cuts and grazing when landing head first on a gravelly, cobbled street before. I find mine very comfortable in general although the pads have just disintegrated on the forehead which is annoying.

Helmet helps cover my ugly mug. Especially when its got a peak! Reason enough.

Interesting that the 'old roadies', who will have ridden rather more miles than most seem to have survived.

Lol.. hilariously poor thinking. The ones that die don't get old, do they? 90% of people who started cycling without a helmet in 1950 could have been killed, you'd still see old people cycling without them...

I slid on some ice, fell on to a grass verge and hit my head on the ground with not a great deal of force. My helmet still split along the side, so I'm just not convinced they do very much at all in a more serious impact.

They're designed to break to absorb the crash energy. The fact it split means it DID do its job perfectly.

To the OP - I'd think riding on the road would be more likely to need a helmet. Lots of traffic waiting to knock you off or chuck you over its bonnet, and lots of hard tarmac and bodywork all over the place, much of which is ramming around at 50mph or more.

The fatality levels per mile are roughly the same as walking and I don't see many pedestrians wearing helmets

Good grief, we're not doing very well today are we? If the stats are the same PER MILE then cyclists are far more at risk of fatality since we ride a lot more miles than people walk, generally.

Lol.. hilariously poor thinking. The ones that die don't get old, do they? 90% of people who started cycling without a helmet in 1950 could have been killed, you'd still see old people cycling without them...

It's no worse than those who use an anecdote of "a helmet saved my life one time" as a reason for wearing one and a lot better than

Lots of traffic waiting to knock you off or chuck you over its bonnet, and lots of hard tarmac and bodywork all over the place, much of which is ramming around at 50mph or more.

because if you think a cycling helmet is going to protect you from the consequences of being hit by a vehicle doing 50 mph you are sadly mistaken.

and the more people who cycle the safer all cyclists are (since other road users expect to encounter them, critical mass and all that)

Even if true it has no impact on the efficacy of the helmet I wear in a crash

The fatality levels per mile are roughly the same as walking and I don't see many pedestrians wearing helmets.

Its not the best stat to use but yes cycling is generally safe

They're designed to break to absorb the crash energy. The fact it split means it DID do its job perfectly.

Yes, I agree. Helmets are designed to offer limited protection in low speed accidents, which is what it did in my case.

That's not really an overwhelming case for wearing one, though is it?

That's not really an overwhelming case for wearing one, though is it?

So whats your overwhelmeing case for not wearing one?

but not as light and well ventilated as no helmet.

Not as light, sure, but aren't there manufacturers now claiming that they have designed the vents so well that you get more airflow to the scalp than on a naked head? I may have dreamed that?

yea i remember that too, they also said that the newer faired/semi-TT helmets were almost as good as the normal helmets of a few years ago too.

So whats your overwhelmeing case for not wearing one?

They're designed to offer all the protection they can. They DO offer limited protection. Your wording seems to imply that they are designed to offer less protection than they could.

Anyway - yes, to me it is a good case for wearing one. It's not about the speed of the crash, it's about the speed your head hits things with. And any protection is better than none imo.

Would you wear knee or elbow pads on say, an Alpine holiday? Would it save your life if you fell off a cliff or hit a tree at speed? No. But it can help save that valuable skin on your extremities. My brain is more valuable than my elbow and shin skin, to me at least.

I always wear a helmet unless testing the bike up and down the local BW. Really can't see the sense in not wearing one on trails or on t' road.

because if you think a cycling helmet is going to protect you from the consequences of being hit by a vehicle doing 50 mph you are sadly mistaken.

This is another of the things I've considered. As much as people think it's common sense, is an inch thick bit of polystyrene really going to make much difference in the grand scheme of things? Seems to me if you're worrying this much about getting hit by a vehicle at speed then you should give up and do something else. Of course if a helmet is there as a psychological safety-net then fair enough, but you shouldn't be under any illusion about its actual usefulness in this situation.

is an inch thick bit of polystyrene really going to make much difference in the grand scheme of things?

Yes.

Aye and if you worry about falling when climbing you should either give up or free climb

Liking your logic

In fact if you wear any form of PPE you should just stop

Helmets - not for real men as we dont need a useless psychological safety-net as we laugh in the face of danger

Make your case but save this style of language please - it will end up as an argument even if we try really hard not to

So whats your overwhelmeing case for not wearing one?

I've already said that I do wear one.

Would you wear knee or elbow pads on say, an Alpine holiday? Would it save your life if you fell off a cliff or hit a tree at speed? No. But it can help save that valuable skin on your extremities. My brain is more valuable than my elbow and shin skin, to me at least.

Hmm, not convinced that a thin layer of polystyrene is going to offer much brain protection. I can see it saving you a trip to A&E for stitches though.

Yes.

In the example of being hit by a vehicle at high speed which was what I was talking about? I don't know BTW, just asking the question, but it seems unlikely to me.

*Sighs*

Where's TJ when you [s]don't[/s]need him... 😉

We can debate forever whether or not helmets are a genuine improvement or not (I personally would always wear one but that is my choice). However that's not what the question was - why is there a difference between road and mtb riders? Generally the latter wear helmets, why the former less so (yes, aware that a fair few do, but I see a good number who don't)? What's the difference? A road surface can still do a lot of damage in an accident, so why the different approach?

Good grief, we're not doing very well today are we? If the stats are the same PER MILE then cyclists are far more at risk of fatality since we ride a lot more miles than people walk, generally.

That is how transport risk is generally measured though, no?

Hence why you get the "flying is the safest form of transport" stuff when in reality plane crashes are obviously more likely to be fatal than car crashes.

It does beg the question: [b]how far would you have to [i]walk[/i] before it would be a "no brainer" to wear a helmet?[/b]

I was off out on the road bike last week and got all the way out of the door without my helmet when I thought what if my son spots me coming back wihout it and I went back inside and got it. Oh how life has changed in the last few years. Would the helmet evangelists not ride if the arrived by car to a trail and realised they'd forgotton their helmet. Hasnt happend to me for a while but I would still go and ride.

What's the difference? A road surface can still do a lot of damage in an accident, so why the different approach?

I don't fall off on the road nor do I bang my head on branches I tend to do this off road though

why is there a difference between road and mtb riders? Generally the latter wear helmets, why the former less so (yes, aware that a fair few do, but I see a good number who don't)? What's the difference? A road surface can still do a lot of damage in an accident, so why the different approach?

I propose three reasons:

1. Historical. MTBing is a relatively new sport which emerged just as helmet wearing was becoming commonplace. Road riding has a much longer tradition and any older riders would've grown up not wearing a helmet.

2. Usefulness of helmets. They are designed to offer protection in low speed accidents. So striking your head on low branches etc, which happens off road.

3. Risk. You're more likely to fall off mtbing.

However that's not what the question was - why is there a difference between road and mtb riders? Generally the latter wear helmets, why the former less so (yes, aware that a fair few do, but I see a good number who don't)? What's the difference?

Answering for myself, although I'm now always helmeted, I used to wear helmets off road, but not on road. I think when I set off on a mountain bike, although I'm not exactly planning on falling off, I'm doing an activity where falling off, or at least headbutting a tree branch on the way under, are quite likely occurrences. On road, I'm pretty much planning on getting from my departure point to my destination "rubber side down" each and every time. As I ride more off-road, I tackle trickier terrain which I wouldn't do if I wasn't prepared to go OTB. If I thought a particular road was likely to result in me coming off, I wouldn't ride it.

EDIT: Plus the speed of the likely off - to be frank, I expect most of my MTBing falls to be at the sort of speeds where a helmet will help. On road, I'm not necessarily expecting that the layer of polystyrene will do much if I go under a cement truck...

Aye and if you worry about falling when climbing you should either give up or free climb

Funny you should say that cos I was going to use a climbing analogy. Ever climbed before? In some circumstances climbing without a rope (soloing) can be much safer than using one. Also climbers use many other strategies to compensate risk other than simply having a rope tied to them, such as knowledge of the crag/route/area, an accurate assessment of their own ability, climbing well within their own limits etc. Would it surprise you to know that many climbers (and not just the elite) solo routes on a routine basis? Is it any different to riding a bike without a helmet?