Helm or Pike Ultimate

I've had the older Pike from a few years ago, currently have an RC2 Lyrik which is pretty close damper wise, a Helm mk2 and Helm mk1 (fitted to my wife's bike). I'm not sure I could tell the difference between the Helm mk2 and the RS forks. I suppose the Pike would be a bit lighter and the Helm slightly stiffer chassis wise.

What I really like about the Cane Creek stuff is the adjustability on the air spring and travel change without the need for extra parts, everything is nicely machined from aluminium with no plastic parts. And supporting the smaller company is nice if that matters to you.

what travel and bike. I wouldn't get an RS fork even if it was cheap.

130 on a Stage Evo

I wouldn’t get an RS fork even if it was cheap.

Yeah, they make really crap forks...

I’ve got Helm air mk2 on my Stage evo. They’re a fantastic fork; decent adjustments, relatively stiff & well damped. Very stable around the sag point, but no hesitation using whatever travel is needed. Plus they match the Fox DPX2 rear perfectly.

Yeah, they make really crap forks…

Whilst I’m sure some of their forks are ok, I don’t like them; every set of RS forks I’ve had have felt rubbish. Maybe it’s personal preferences, maybe it’s my imagination, but I just don’t understand the love. They’ve all felt over damped & reluctant to get moving. Not in a stiction “they just need bedding in” kind of way, but like the bushing is just too tight. One thing in their favour is that warranty claims are painless. That said, out of all the fork brand I’ve owned, they’re the only ones I’ve had to make a warranty claim on. Unless they come OE on a bike I would never buy another set. In my opinion they’re a triumph of marketing over quality.

Yeah, they make really crap forks…

The chassis is good the internals are not

Let's take a moment to compare the Helm to a RockShox Pike, especially since I've spent time with both forks on the front of my Optic. Compared to a Pike, the Helm's low-speed compression range isn't as wide – it's possible to get a slightly firmer or slightly softer setup on the Pike – but on the flip side the Helm has a wider high-speed compression range. Given the overlap between those adjustments, I'd call it a draw. I didn't notice any significant stiffness difference between the two, but I'm also on the lighter side of the spectrum.

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/review-cane-creek-helm-mkii-2020.html

I was looking at the Helm as an option, but would mean I have to run a 200mm rotor for Tech4 brakes. That’s overkill for me. I’m happy with Rockshox, so will end up with a Pike at some point

Not used a Helm but I like both my Pike Ultimate RC2 and Lyrik Ultimate RC2. Both nice and plush and very good on small bumps. Easy to service both the lowers and the air spring - never tried servicing a damper. Parts are generally easy to get and quite cheap.

Only downside is I think if your bladder on the charger breaks on the newer dampers they aren’t sold as a spare part which is bad.

Newest ones have moved away from the bladder to an ifp thing I think - I haven’t tried those / not sure on availability.

I think on the Helm it has more adjustments and might be good for someone who likes tinkering - but it’s harder to get it set up just so and easier to have it setup badly.

Which is best depends on you and what you like doing with bikes. If just wanting to get on and ride the RS is an easier option I think.

Had both either is decent would go for the cheapest.

Depends what version of each fork you are referring. I've no experience with the new Charger3 Rockshox.

I have Helm Mk2 coil and a Pike Ultimate Charger2.1, however the Pike has an Everflow Tank https://www.everflow.it/webshop/performance-parts/tank-v4-lyrik-pike-2016-22/ and for me this has profoundly changed the fork for the better. The B1 airshaft was too soft and the following C1 airshaft 'improvement' was just plain harsh and horrible.

With the Tank fitted, the performance of the Pike is damn close to the coil Helm, and you can probably pick up a Charger 2.1 Pike for much less these days.

I've had a Helm for a few years now and would echo this:

I think on the Helm it has more adjustments and might be good for someone who likes tinkering – but it’s harder to get it set up just so and easier to have it setup badly.

I'm more than happy to go through the setup phase with any fork or shock but the Helm took far longer to get close than any other fork I've had. I'm also not overly impressed with the build quality of it, especially after my first one was replaced under warranty for poor quality bushings that ate the stanchions rather quickly (MkI replaced with a MkII). I also find that it really does drop in performance more between services than other brands, the 'fresh' feeling only lasts a few rides whereas my Fox stuff stays good for longer and also has a noticeable improvement back to fresh after a lowers service, the Helm just doesn't have that. I'm not overly impressed with Cane Creek suspension though, had a CCDB Air CS on my previous Orange 5 and that was amazing but the Helm and CCDB Air IL on my current Rocket aren't as good as I thought they'd be. The IL needs a new air can EVERY service for some odd reason, no-one can figure out why as it's always an odd scratch rather than wear. I've been thinking of changing it all out for another brand rather than get it all serviced again!

Alpkit Outelt have Helm mk2 Air on their ebay shop for c. £575 (though it has been fluctuating a wee bit). I was considering one for a Solaris Max build. I test rode a Helm (on a Flare Max as it happens) and it was the most glued to the ground ride I've experienced - though I apprecaite theres lots of contributory factors there.

@dumbbot I'm intrigued by the Everflow Tank, but I can't reconcile what the two graphs are saying. What's the difference between Spring Rate and Force v Displacement? Does the Tank just increase initial sensitivity and lessen damping throughout the travel to a degree? If so that would be an attractive mod for my 2020 Lyrik.

Helm coil for the ultimate win..?

I’d been looking at the Helm air on Alpkit ebay outlet too. The idea of being able to run them as air and then convert to coil was appealing.

I've got Helm 2s on my RocketMax

I'm at the lighter end of the spectrum (63kg) and they're rather overdamped - I run no high or low compression damping and only a couple of clicks of rebound. They're bloody amazing if you're going flat out over steep, tough terrain - very supportive and controlled - but they're not very comfortable. A 3 or 4 minute race pace run, they can feel amazing, but after that, hanging on gets increasingly hard work. I found them pretty tough going on long high speed descents in the Alps this summer - to the point of considering swapping them for Lyrics, but I couldn't find anyone who would buy mine for enough cash to make it a cost effective swap.

When I sent them in for service at TF, I did ask if there was anything they could do to take the edge off the high speed compression damping. The answer was no - they run 2.5wt oil as standard, and don't flow much oil through the shim stacks, so there's not much tuning they can do there either.

@crimsondynamo

I have no idea about the graphs, just squiggly lines to me ;0.  The Tank makes the negative chamber much larger so you run higher pressures....its more supple yet more supportive from the higher pressures, you can also use it in conjunction with the V4 sealhead to adjust the balance of the lower leg and negative volume making the fork more or less progressive to suit(which is handy as your are running higher pressures). The only downside I can see is if you are a big lad at 130kg odd, the increased pressure could be an issue, thats stated on the website.

My mate has them on both his Pike and Lyrik, and was not happy with his Pike at all until the everflow tank/sealhead(Pike has smaller neg than the Lyrik)...if your are running any Charger 2 Rockshox you should be running these imho, get them on your Lyrik.

Speak to Andrea at Everflow, really nice guy and super helpful

Just a further note on the Helms Mk2s....i'm 76kgs(well maybe more with xmas mince pies) I run both LSC/HSC in the middle and can't say its harsh in the slightest, the forks do however get better when you push them. I think they are great forks, thats the coils mind.

I'm 82kg and on the air fork I can only use the first click on the high speed and low speed compression from fully open before they get harsh. I've got the air chamber at it's largest, most linear setting too as any smaller and it ramps up too much! I'm running 3psi more in the negative air chamber to get some small bump sensitivity but as you say, they do wake up when you push them hard. For the week I had in Chatel when the bike was a few months old they were fantastic but everywhere else they've been a disappointment. Maybe a service and setup day with Sprung might release a bit of performance out of them?

Interesting thread, I have a Helm (coil) on one bike and Pike on my Stage 4 - so I hope I can provide some insight.

My Helm (mk1) is firmly damped, but is still about right for me at 82kg kitted up. Very supportive and comfortable at the same time.

My Pike is the previous model Select+ and I was really impressed with it. I don't miss the HSC adjust from the Ultimate and it feels nice and stiff at 130mm (big improvement over the older Fox 34 I had before).

If you're of average weight and not super-agressive, I'd suggest the Pike matches the Orange chassis really well.

JonEdwards - Do you think a coil conversion might help with comfort on your Helm? I know the benefit is mainly in the smaller impacts, but cumulatively it might leave you feeling fresher?