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I've recently bought a second hand patriot which for the time being is my do it all only bike. Weights in at around 36lb with Marzochi 66's (coil, 150mm, the old 05 versions), DHX 5.0 coil shock, mavic 321 rims and a not particularly light raceface DH chainset.
Over the last week I've taken it for two spins around the Quantocks and an evening blast around Cwmcarn XC route. Both of which were hard work, Cwmcarn noticeably more so, the climb was an absolute bugger - cleaned all the techie bits but had to stop loads for breathers. Back in the day I'd be doing the XC loop in around 1hr 10mins.
So, do you eventualy get used to the added weight and will I see any fitness benefits from lugging this beast around? I should've got a 5 really I guess but I'm loving it on the downs and have a few uplift days booked along with some local DH tracks to play on.
This looks like a good excuse to buy another bike for when you want to go up as well as down?
I've got a mmmbop that I'm slowly in the process of building. Have always ridden steel hardtails in the past and love em so won't be without an XC bike at some point. The patriot is a hoot downhill though so I'm trying to ride that as much as possible.
Think it's more the suspension eating your energy and big bikes tend to have big draggy tyres on them, the extra 6 or 7 pounds isn't going to make that much difference.
What tyres have you got on it? They are probably causing the most difference.
Good point on the tyres, the rear is a schwalbe fat albert 2.35 which seems to roll ok. The front is some wtb timberwolf thing I got given in Morzine and haven't taken off, I doubt this is helping.
I'd say man up, it's not [i]that[/i] heavy. You'll get used to it. If not get rid of that anvil of a fork.
I tend to ride similar type bikes - I've currently got a Heckler with Fox 36's, DHX5 coil etc etc.
Firstly - from experience - I find hauling a big bike up a fire road in the granny ring, breathing out your arse, is actually much less frustrating than being held back from warp factor 9 on an awesome rocky, techy singletrack downhill on a more nervouse, flimsy bike.
I've found a decent balance I think - Keep the strong frame, big forks and lovely plush suspension travel, but ride with relatively lightweight tubeless wheelset and not quite so massive tyres - and they last fine - the suspension means that light wheels last better than they would on a rigid bike.
The best way to make a noticeable difference would be to get yourself a good quality tubeless wheelset and some light-ish medium sized tyres.
36lbs isnt too heavy for a fit rider but you would certainly shave a few lbs if you ditched the heavy forks and got a lighter wheelset.
Perhaps you could try spinning classes or even circuit training again? 😀
Firstly - from experience - I find hauling a big bike up a fire road in the granny ring, breathing out your arse, is actually much less frustrating than being held back from warp factor 9 on an awesome rocky, techy singletrack downhill on a more nervouse, flimsy bike.
Couldn't agree more, just want to make it a bit easier if possible.
I've only just serviced the 66's and they're super plush now so I think I'll stick with them for a bit and see how I get on.
Wheelset sounds like a winner though, any pointers on a durable but lightish set?
MrNutt: Yeah, losing the belly will help but there is no way I am doing spinning classes ever again. Don't rush back from Cornwall, your flat is covered in pizza boxes and coke cans 😉
A heavy bouncer was the excuse I needed to build myself an xc hardtail (that's not so lightweight either)
Going 1x9 would drop 1.5lbs straight away, plus, as the others have said, lighter wheels and tyres.
You'll get used to it. I run a Patriot with Van 36s but heavy dual-ply Maxxis tyres - probably weighs similar. It ain't quick going up but it always gets there, and downhill is ace - it's worth the effort. Don't compromise the performance too much with crap tyres to save weight, and think about a Van fork. Patriot's barely 'bob', so the longish travel shouldn't be an issue if you pedal smoothly.
krag - MemberI've recently bought a second hand patriot which for the time being is my do it all only bike. Weights in at around 36lb
that's heavier than my Dh bike!
you can of course do what you want, but i have 2 pairs of wheels - 1pair is nice and light and the other heavy and strong.
both pairs fit both my bikes, so with only a wheel change my Dh bike becomes xc-able, and my hardtail becomes a thug.
(you do have the world's heaviest forks, but as ever, light wheels first)
Patriots bob plenty if they're not damped to buggery, so check your shocks settings.
My SX is also currently 36lbs (55r's, coil-shock and Eskars) and I find that even the extra 4lbs it weighs over my other Enduro (an S-works with Coil Pikes, coil shock and also on Eskars) is quite obvious despite them being fairly similar bikes in many respects.
Also slimming down my BFe from 32lbs (with the 55r's and heavier wheels) to it's current 28.5lbs (with Pace RC41's) the difference in weight is very noticeable when climbing despite still using the same tyres and actually having another 20mm travel in it's lighter guise.
As others have said, a heavy bike need not necessarily be the main cause of slowing you down. You need to look at tyre choice as a starting point, maybe even try something like a pair of Ardents or similar to reduce the mechanical drag on the trail, although that's not the full story. Pedal efficiency and frame geometry has an awful lot to do with it too.
I have two bikes; a 2004 Specialized Enduro running lightweight components and 2" wide shallow tread XC tyres that weighs in around 28lb. My other bike is a 2009 Marin Wolf Ridge running burlier kit and tips the scales between 31-32.5lb. While the Enduro is incredibly "flickable" for want of a better word and nible, it's not an efficient pedalling design and pedal squat robs me of a lot of energy on long rides.
The Marin on the other hand feels like a mini-dh bike, yet it pedals beautifully and is far less energy sapping on long rides surprisingly enough. Part of this can be attributed to the Ardents the Marin is fitted with because it was incredibly draggy when running the Minion/High Rollers it came with, but the suspension design and compact frame fit has a lot to do with it.
The only time I'll pick the Spesh over the Marin is if extended climbing is brought into the equation, the Spesh has better traction and being longer in the top tube is a a far more efficient climbing tool. For general trail riding and even long distance road riding, the Marin is a whole league ahead.
There's a lot that can be gleaned from this... It may also be that the Patriot isn't necessarily the right bike for you to to do an XC loop on, thanks to plush suspension and slack angles.
I have two bikes; a 2004 Specialized Enduro running lightweight components and 2" wide shallow tread XC tyres that weighs in around 28lb. My other bike is a 2009 Marin Wolf Ridge running burlier kit and tips the scales between 31-32.5lb. While the Enduro is incredibly "flickable" for want of a better word and nible, it's not an efficient pedalling design and pedal squat robs me of a lot of energy on long rides.
What shock are you running on the Enduro? I've a couple of shocks for mine - an RP2 and a Vanilla, both with Propedal - and find it pedals well with either of those on (although the RP2 is noticeably better).
I've got the Fox Float it came with, upgraded with PUSH tuning and a Romic coil. The Romic is extremely supple, but in dire need of a service.
I do like the idea of running an RP2 on the Enduro, some dial in compression damping to tame the bob would be very welcome.
Sorry for the thread hijack but PJM1974, what kit are you running on the Marin? I'd say mine has burly kit too and my digital scales said 34.9lbs. Are my scales wrong?
My Marin is heavily upgraded - Rockshox Revelations, I-Beam post and saddle, 719s on Hope Bulbs, Ardents, Nukepoof bars and SRAM X9 running gear.
Oh and it's running Stans rim strips too.
Hmm. Mine's:
Lyrik U-turns
XT drive
719s on SLX/Saint
SLX brakes
Sunline 745s and AM stem
Kenda BG 2.35/ Nev 2.1
So heavier I guess but is there 2.5 to 4 lbs in that? Might re-weigh it.
Anyway, carry on!
Edit: Are those Nukepoof bars especially bent? 😀
Revelations v Lyriks might be the best part of a couple of pounds surely?
These weights are making me feel a bit better about the weight of my coil sprung 5spot!
Epicsteve no, there's only about 0.7 lbs in it - give or take - depending on which Revelation.
I was second guessing my own calculations for a minute until I clocked the coil Lyriks! The rest of your kit is comparable to mine though. You can make some major savings in unlikely places, the I-Beam saddle and post has saved best part of half a pound. Stock Marins ship with weighty cassettes too.
Haha, the Nukeproofs are really nice bars to use and very light for their size.
edit - 2010 Revelation U Turn Race, scarily light even compared to the 454 Pike Airs that I had before.
I was basing my guess on the Lyriks being a bit heavier than the coil Pikes I have (weighed at 5.3lbs) and the Revalations being about 4lbs or a bit under.
I'd say keep it as it is, dont waste money changing bits and pieces, save it to spec your ragley good.
Just dont bother using it for xc rides thats all, keep it for dh/uplift days and the weight doesnt matter (within reason)
I had a patriot with some 66's and it was shit for xc anyway, the downs you normally find on xc rides dont need 7inch'es of travel either.
Ach I copied the wrong data. The Lyriks are 5.31 lbs against 3.57 for those revs so that's a big difference.
I'll un-hijack this by saying I don't find my Marin overly heavy. 🙂
ahwiles - Memberthat's heavier than my Dh bike!
What DH bike do you have and what spec is it to get it down to 35lb?
Mondraker prayer.
lyrik solo-air forks, hope hubs + 521's, i only use a double ply tyre at the back (front tyre = single ply).
awesome bike, 160mm is the new 200mm.
it's basically an extra burly Specialized pitch. with more 'Dh' geometry.
Nowt wrong with 36lb. My Slopestyle weighs 35 and goes everywhere and the shonky Tazer is only 2-3lbs less. This weekend I shall mostly be building myself a nice 'lightweight' BMX - I'll be gutted if it weighs in at less than 28lbs. Heavy metal rocks [img] http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRCtGZOTCLIFHdQcVYdnzffjpBDnCapnVS7Pxj7bMfm6M4wz0&t=1&usg=__QPwD6CBw2rftuTtrGkwAoxZwgYI= [/img]
Does seem a bit chunky for XC riding IMO.
36lb is fine, takes about a month to get used to it. I rode my 36lb Nomad for 2 years before i bothered weighing it and realised there was some weight to be saved...
Basically, just ride as fast as you can on it for a month, you'll then get fitter and forget the weight. And if you are last up the hills, at least you have an excuse...
Hmm... a Mondraker Prayer is a nice wee bike but it is not really a DH bike and doesn't quite have DH geometry. - remember looking at one myself at one point. I'd actually prefer a 7" travel DH bike if I could find something suitable.
think my Sunday would be around 38lb if I ran a single ply front, wouldn't get away with that anywhere other than inners or tracks that don't really need a DH bike at all tho.