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Hi,
I've had an annoying clinking noise coming from the front of my Vitus Sentier when riding over rough terrain for a while now so decided to try and do something about it.
I thought I'd start by trying to service the headset so I could eliminate that from the possible causes. It's a FSA Orbit 1.5E NO.57E 1.1/8” - 1.5" headset.
So far I've managed to get as far as accessing the bearings but I can't work out how to get the top bearings out so I can clean regrease the area. I had to prize off some kind of plastic lock ring before the forks would drop out. I then tried pulling out the bearing from the top by hand and pulled off some kind of metal cover for the bearings. There is some kind of black ring/cover in the top of the head tube which is stopping me from getting the top bearings out. Do I just prize this off? I'm a bit worried about doing some damage to the frame and/or headset.
I've attached some photos of the bike headset and the parts I've removed so far.
Any help greatly appreciated.
You have to drop the forks out first before doing that lot. There is usually a split washer that is used for pre-load, but that's already out. Tap the top of the forks then drop them out to get at the bearings. I hope you haven't bent the seals as you've already ripped them off.
The forks would'nt tap out thats why I prized off the split washer. The bottom bearing just slides off the steerer. However, it appears the top bearing is all part of a cup that has been pressed into the frame which means I can't get it out without some kind of special tool. However, I presume I could just spray some degreaser into the bearings and then re-apply some fresh grease?. The cover or seal I prized off the top bearings is metal so hasn't been damaged as far as I can tell.
The headset in your frame does not use sealed bearings which is why you can see the balls when you remove the outer ring. The frame has cups pressed into it then the bearings are in a wire frame, you do not need any special tools to get them out, they will pull out but if you are taking them out make sure you dont lose any of the balls.
They are like this
To get them out, take the fork out then use a small flat screwdriver to lift the bottom of the bearing race so you can pull it out.
I would recommend upgrading the headset to a sealed bearing version as it will last much longer but you would need to knock the headset cups out of the frame and then press new ones in.
The arrow in your 1st photo is the headset cup which is pressed into the frame.
Top: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-mix-match-top-headset-cup/rp-prod124571 ZS44 - T2
Bottom: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-mix-match-bottom-headset-cup/rp-prod124574 ZS56 - B8
Sealed bearings will not fit in the existing cups.
If you aren't sure what you are doing, let someone who knows do the job as you could cause irrepairable damage.
Thanks for this, I will have a go at getting the top ones out again or maybe I could just regrease them? - also I don't think I'll be able to get that metal cover back on the bearings without getting the bearing out anyway (I've tried).
Also, if I do get the top bearing out, will I be able to get it back in easily enough?
I’d be surprised if a couple of balls don’t fall out it when you remove it. It shouldn’t be an overally tight fit in the cup but the metal isn’t that strong so will bend easily and the balls are generally quite loose in the race to allow them to move.
I’d honestly upgrade the whole headset to a sealed bearing version and you’ll not need to look at it for a long time.
That top top cover should push on again no problems, you may need to lift the fork up by the crown to centre it in the headset and allow everything to fit properly.
If you aren’t confident in doing this let someone who knows what they are doing put it back together.
I'd either just pack them with grease and reassemble or replace them with sealed bearings. I don't see any benefit in trying to pull it all apart, you're more likely to lose bearings than do any good.
There's a number of different cartridge bearings that you might find in a headset. Those are my least favourite.
Normally, a sealed cartridge bearing will have a rubber seal top and bottom. Some however, and FSA are a bigger for it, use a different spec of bearing which has one seal top (or bottom depending which way up you have the bearing) and an open gap on the inside face which allows water and crap inside.
If it was my bike, I'd replace the whole headset with something that uses a properly sealed bearing. I'd imagine, once you tap the forks out, the bottom race will be a real mess.
Have a look at images of a MR127 or TH073 headset bearing to see what I mean about the gap.
Remember, if you are dropping the fork right out you might need to disconnect the brake depending on how long the hose/cable is
What you've got there is an internal headset. However that is still a cartridge bearing there, not loose.
The special tool is a screwdriver. You need to get that fork out of there, then you prise the cartridge out working side to side. You might be able to attack it from the under side with screwdriver and a hammer. It's likely the cartridge has rusted in place a bit so may need some other attempts to unstick it.
Headset - https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/type/headset-spares/no-57e-3322
Service manual on that page - https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/files/index/download/id/5dea8e4ef75ea284b90068e4d45d46a825/
Top bearing - https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/bearing-th-873-dj-acb-36-x45-mr040-for-1-1-8-steerer
(oddly, can't see the bottom bearing on their site. Should be an MR019)
when you install the headset again or its replacement ensure there is grease on every single surface of the bearing and the cup it goes in to.
If you replace the cups grease them and the frame before fitting.
Then after the winter disassemble and re grease everything again, stops all manner of clicks and squeaks.
There’s a number of different cartridge bearings that you might find in a headset. Those are my least favourite.
Normally, a sealed cartridge bearing will have a rubber seal top and bottom. Some however, and FSA are a bigger for it, use a different spec of bearing which has one seal top (or bottom depending which way up you have the bearing) and an open gap on the inside face which allows water and crap inside.
If it was my bike, I’d replace the whole headset with something that uses a properly sealed bearing. I’d imagine, once you tap the forks out, the bottom race will be a real mess.
Have a look at images of a MR127 or TH073 headset bearing to see what I mean about the gap.
Thanks for this, that has confirmed my thoughts that these are actually cartridge bearings but not the usual kind which have a big rubber seal. These have a metal ring and then a very thin black rubber seal. Unfortunately I've pulled off this metal ring from both the bearings and it doesn't look like it will go back on properly so I am probably going to have to replace both bearings anyway. Fortunately the bottom race doesn't actually look too bad.
What you’ve got there is an internal headset. However that is still a cartridge bearing there, not loose.
The special tool is a screwdriver. You need to get that fork out of there, then you prise the cartridge out working side to side. You might be able to attack it from the under side with screwdriver and a hammer. It’s likely the cartridge has rusted in place a bit so may need some other attempts to unstick it.
Headset – https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/type/headset-spares/no-57e-3322
Service manual on that page – https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/files/index/download/id/5dea8e4ef75ea284b90068e4d45d46a825/Top bearing – https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/bearing-th-873-dj-acb-36-x45-mr040-for-1-1-8-steerer
(oddly, can’t see the bottom bearing on their site. Should be an MR019)
Again thank you for confirming they are actually cartridge bearings. I will have a go at getting the top bearing out today. Thanks for clarifying what the part no. is for the top bearing, looks like that one will be quite cheap to replace. As I mentioned above unfortunately I've pulled off the metal ring (its the one on the far right in this picture https://prnt.sc/koqwf7) on both bearings and I dont think they can be put back on, can you confirm thats the case Onzadog?
Unfortunately I've not been able to find the exact replacement for the bottom bearing MR019. However, if I measure the Inner and Outer diameters accurately hopefully I should be able to find a suitable match.
I think this might be a possibility: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/fsa-bearing-th-073e-acb-1-5/rp-prod134153
However, I will check with Chainreactioncycles first as it is one of their bikes after all so they should know.
Also I noticed there was hardly any grease left in the headeset in both upper or lower and parts of the bottom bearing look quite corroded so perhaps needs replacing anyway. Hopefully once I've regreased and/or replace bearings I MAY have actually got rid of the click.
Thanks again for all the advice, much appreciated
If you get all the parts out and they clean up, they can all be put back in with lashings of grease. While you have the cartridge open, you could replace the retainer ring with loose balls if you can find the right size in a local bike shop. It will last a bit longer that way.
If you get all the parts out and they clean up, they can all be put back in with lashings of grease. While you have the cartridge open, you could replace the retainer ring with loose balls if you can find the right size in a local bike shop. It will last a bit longer that way.
Thanks - the top bearing has come out easily!. Now I can compare it with the bottom bearing I can see just how bad the bottom bearing is!. All the ball bearings are brown with corrosion and I can hardly spin the ring they sit in inside the cage. The top bearing does spin freely but everything other than the bearings themselves is covered with corrosion. So I would think it's time to replace them anyway? Plus the fact I can't seem to get that retainer ring back on properly as there is a thin black rubber seal which the ring needs to seat with.
I've attached a photo of the bearings:
Just an update on my progress. I was able to source a new replacement bottom bearing MR019 and was also able to clean, grease and re-assemble the top bearing.
After re-assembling steering feels extremely light and very sensitive. I'm sure I've put enough preload on the top cap as their is no play in the headset. So do I assume the difference in feel is just the new and serviced bearings?.
Also, I noticed however much preload I apply there is a 1-1.5mm gap between the top cap and top cup. Will this be ok?
Also, I'm still not sure the original bearing that was put in is the correct one. The bottom bearing MR019 according to the service manual here is for the NO.57E-1 which is a straight steerer> https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/files/index/download/id/5dea8e4ef75ea284b90068e4d45d46a825/ <
Mine is a tapered steerer so according to Chain Reaction Cycles should actually be the NO.57E which uses the MR127. Now the bottom bearing I took out of the bike is definitely marked TH MR01*, unfortunately the rest of the number is corroded off but it would certainly suggest it's a MR019 (which is what I've bought). Now the ONLY difference between these bearings is that the MR127 is 0.5mm taller than the MR019 and as I've not had any steering problems for the last 3 years with the original bearing in would suggest this should be ok.
So I can only assume someone fitted the wrong bearing/headset when the bike was originally built up. Unfortunately the outside of the top bearing is corroded so I can't see what exact bearing this one is. Another thing I've noticed is in the service manual for both the No.57E and No.57E-1, the bottom cup appears to be internal but on my bike it's external. Please see below images for comparison:
Any thoughts would be appreciated.