[Closed] Have you got pedal reflectors on that thing, Sir?

Well, you are, in theory, in breach of the law.

Well, if them's the rules, I guess it's a fair cop. But you wouldn't be very happy about it, would you. 🙁

they would have to catch me 1st

My understanding (and I may well be wrong, it's happened before in 1987 I think 🙂 ) is that they're only required on bikes bought 'complete' so if you've built up a frame you're exempt.

Can anyone clarify?

what a ****ing joke.

Pedal reflectors - really???

I have never seen the PCSOs in my home town ever stop a cyclist riding on the pavement despite the signs which say it is an offence punishable by a £50 fine. I have a feeling those signs cost more to put up than any revenue from fines will manage. So this news does not concern me in the slightest.

well they won't be able to see me in my stealth ninja outfit riding my black bike in the gutter so they can stick it

I have debated putting the rear reflector and wheel reflectors back on my road bike. I know it looks a bit lame, but perhaps better to be seen than worry about how uncool reflectors look.

Not sure about the pedal reflector thing. I've got those plastic Shimano clip-on reflector things, but they are pretty cumbersome.

My understanding (and I may well be wrong, it's happened before in 1987 I think ) is that they're only required on bikes bought 'complete' so if you've built up a frame you're exempt.

You're on about bikes as supplied from shops. Construction regs, basically.

USAGE regs are the same for everyone, and are very clear as in the link in the OP

whats a PCSO? dont think we have them in Scotland.

only between sunset and sunrise?

and how many of our lights are BS stamped?

You wonder if they'll bother.

got to catch me first.....

You know those 'get yourself legal' roadside things where they give out free lights and sam browne belts?

Has any one of those ever given away free pedal reflectors?

or those bits that go on your spokes for visibility from the side?

How will they hand out fines if they dont know your name? Its not like they can take your reg number like a car?

This strikes me as a very easy way to look busy and to blame the cyclist again. I agree that many dont have suitable lights etc but when you have proper lights, reflectors arent going to make much difference. How about targeting all the idiots who drive around with fogs and sidelights on blinding everyone, or worse, just sidelights in the pitch black.

You wonder if they'll bother.

I would like to see the PCSO measure the light output of 2 and 4 candela.

So all SPD style pedal systems won't be road legal.

there's been a number of them hanging around at junctions in London along with real policepeople. they look like they're there just to warm the pavement.

Permanently Confused Stationary Object.

So all SPD style pedal systems won't be road legal.

They never were (between sunset and sunrise), this is about being able to issue on the spot fines, not changing the requirement for the reflectors.

Pedal reflectors are pretty useful because of the the eye picks up the movement quickly. Reflective areas on overshoes / trousers clips / tights do the same though.

OEM Crank Bros pedals always used to come with a wierd plastic platform with a reflector fitted so they were legal to sell on a new bike.

OEM Crank Bros pedals always used to come with a wierd plastic platform with a reflector fitted so they were legal to sell on a new bike.

there are shimano clip on ones too, i use a pair on my commuter

like these:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

IIRC, the law was that a bike had to be [i]sold[/i] with them fitted. Not specific re them being [i]used[/i] on the bike, a bit like the bell 'law'.

[i]So all SPD style pedal systems won't be road legal. [/i]

Also many flats, if I remember DMR's use to come with a 'competition only' sticker.

no good for clipless road pedals though

qwerty - Member
So all SPD style pedal systems won't be road legal.

Time come with them bolted through the ends

no good for clipless road pedals though

I don't think I've ever bought pedals without reflectors!

Wasn't there an exemption for "bicycles modified for racing" or similar?

Presumably the otherwise unemployable womble has to catch me first? And I cant recall many lights being BS marked.

I'm with CFH on this.

I hack around Lonjon on either fixie (no reflectors) or foldie (reflectors) and never been stopped yet. I do wear those yellow snap clips on my right leg though, mebbies they think "that'll do"

I assume this is Bikebiz just stirring things up. As in it won't actually be enforced...

I can't believe they'll seriously try and enforce it - far too many people riding SPDs for a start. Plus they can't ignore the fact there aren't any night-legal SPDs available for us to buy even if we wanted to...

If they can prove a cyclist ever came to harm or harmed someone else because they didn't have pedal reflectors I'd be amazed.

A brief look at collision data would surely show that enforcing laws around driving and drinking/mobile phone usage/speeding would have a much more significant effect on road safety for all road users.

Would screw up commuting for a lot of people, which is dead against Government's push to increase cycling rates, and puts paid to the Dunwich Dynamo for one 🙁

Probably plenty of coppers commuting to work will be breaking the law too 🙂

Maybe get some scotch reflective tape and put a couple of small patches on the back of your shoes / seatstay / rims? Hopefully these will show willingness to comply - spirit rather than letter of the law?

http://www.apetape.co.uk/Category/reflective-tape-3m-scotch-adhesive

Reading through the link it seems the requirement is not new, but a PCSO's ability to enforce it is. (Presumably it previously need a 'proper' officer).

Plus they can't ignore the fact there aren't any night-legal SPDs available for us to buy even if we wanted to...

Yes they can. Compliance with the law is not optional based upon convenience.

I can't believe they'll seriously try and enforce it - far too many people riding SPDs for a start. Plus they can't ignore the fact there aren't any night-legal SPDs available for us to buy even if we wanted to...

I think we covered that pretty well, all the major brands do an OEM reflector bracket, and its not beyond the average man to arraldite some onto most pedal bodies except eggbeaters if you really were stuck!

[quote=brooess ]Plus they can't ignore the fact there aren't any night-legal SPDs available for us to buy even if we wanted to...

[url= http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61EtX9mYr5L._SL1000_.jp g" target="_blank">http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61EtX9mYr5L._SL1000_.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

A bike without pedal reflectors:

[img] ?w=300[/img]

http://ukcyclerules.com/2011/02/17/met-police-cycle-officer-in-suspected-criminal-offence/

And if you refuse to pay, they will have to call the police, in between which one can cycle off into the sunset. I always thought it was illegal to impersonate a police officer.

Do you really want to be that much of an arse to someone though? I suspect if you did that they'd probbaly be arsey back, conduct a full seatch of your bike to make sure it's roadworthy and everything is BS stamped, confiscate your ridiculously bright non BS flight as it's easily arguably a danger to other road users, then it's probably possible to arrest you for failing to stop.

Or you could just comply with a law designed to keep you safer which has no significant downsides to you?

50p reflectors, £50 fine, or be really arsey and probably get in some actual trouble? Not exactly a difficult one is it?

50p reflectors, £50 fine, or be really arsey and probably get in some actual trouble? Not exactly a difficult one is it?

I'd prefer to take my chances, thanks

*-I've never seen them before in wiggle, CRC etc, but hadn't actually been looking, so that may not mean much.

You can get some [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/polaris-rbs-reflective-stickers/rp-prod47454?_$ja=tsid:46412%7Ccgn:Polaris+-+High+Viz%7Ccn:Chain+Reaction-UK-PLA-PLA-All-DT-SE%7Ckw:166789UK_Polaris+RBS+Reflective+Stickers&gclid=CLScy7edprsCFUbKtAodR0IApA ]Reflective stickers[/url] and stick em on

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k629/a102534/flat-pedals-b233-magnesium-black.html ]Wellgo B233[/url]

Decided to go 'legal' on my commuter and bought a pair of these, nice grippy flat pedals with BS reflectors (which incidentally are tucked away well enough that I'd be happy to use them off road and bang them into rocks without risking littering the trails with orange plastic).

OK, I was pulled over coming back from work on Friday night, where the police had a road block, trying to catch drink drivers.

Police officer was polite and asked if I had been drinking and commented on how brightly front light was.

As I cycled off he mentioned to me to get reflectors for my wheels and pedals.

He did not seem that bothered with my illegal front and rear light either 😉

Shimano "M324 Combination Pedals" are SPDs that come with reflectors fitted. But they look like old fashioned touring pedals so are desperately untrendy.

I think Wellgo also make something similar.

Depends how (ande if) it is actually applied. If they are pulling over cyclists that are barely visible to other road users, then they are doing them a favour in bringing their attention to both the law and the benefit of being seen. But if they pull over cyclists who have decent lights, and reflective patches on their cycling shoes (as most now do) and clothing then it will just be jobsworth stupidity.

It is worrying thought that since the recent spate of cyclist deaths in London, the message from the authorities seems to be placing all responsibility on cyclists. Maybe it is just the stories highlighted here are scewing my perception, but I haven't seen anything about educating drivers, and getting them to accept some responsibility for the safety of those around them.

The main points of RVLR are as follows:

Lights (and reflectors) are required on a pedal cycle only between sunset and sunrise.

Taken from the CTC webby.

Don't cycle in the dark 😀 Have none of you lot got a car ? 😆

Surely there are more important things for those pcso s to be doing?

Reflectors on your pedals wont help drivers who are looking at their phone see you.

Bone of contention - 5 of the ****ers were spotted on my way home tonight

But if they pull over cyclists who have decent lights, and reflective patches on their cycling shoes (as most now do) and clothing then it will just be jobsworth stupidity.

These are PCSOs we are talking about here. You could have 2000 lumens beaming out in front of you, 17 lights facing behind with all the reflective tape in the world on you but if you are using eggbeaters, they'll pull you for it, on account of not having any really power/anything to do so will flex their muscles at all opportunities!

I don't much is going to change most pcso I've come across know next to nothing about the law and most of them would have trouble catching up with me if I was walking with my bike let alone riding it 👿

I make sure my commuter is fully equipped, peddle reflectors, wheel reflectors BS lights front and rear, admittedly some of this is augmented by magic shine, 3M Black Reflective stickers etc. 2 Reasons i don't trust motorists as far as i can throw them and ive seen to many judges letting off cyclist killers on the basis of shaky victim blaming so now there are no excuses.

Is there a legal requirement to identify yourself to a Police officer or PCSO in relation to a cycling offence in the same way that there is for a driving offence? If not that would make it pretty difficult to issue the penalty if you wanted to be properly awkward. Probably not worth the hassle though.

Iirc, if a copper/pcso asks you who you are, you have to tell em, else they can haul you off down the nick

'Ello, ello, ello. What's all this 'ere then?

55 posts about a tiny paragraph in a wide ranging bill which delegates powers which aren't used by those who currently have them to a group that does very little to start with?

60
At night60
At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.
Law RVLR regs 13, 18 & 24

Strange. All of my bikes were manufactured before 1/10/85. Bit hard to prove otherwise with no numberplate or registration documents...

As others have said, this isn't a change in the law requiring reflectors. The Police appear to have a proper grasp of perspective in terms of enforcing the existing law.

I am a bit worried that a PCSO may be targeted to issue fines and will then set about enforcing the law regardless.

(Actually, I'm only a bit worried - the commuter has pedal reflectors on the SPDs and the Cateye on my rack has the BS reflector built in, I don't ride the road bike at night, and a PCSO won't catch me at night on the mountain bike

simple question, the regs say must have a pedal reflector, what standard? i assume that there is some legal standard to which reflectors must be made? I assume a minimum size colour, reflectivity?

Or can i get a couple of square millimetres of 3m tape, and stick a bit on the front and back of my iclics and be legal...

Speedplay Zero's on my commuter, how the hell will I get reflectors on those?

[url= https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6632.25 ]https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6632.25[/url]

a debate on reflectors,

Summary, reflectors have to comply with bs6102/2 according to the law, but the newer EN standards supersede the british standard and the EN doesn't mention reflectors...

So reflectors are required and have to comply with a spec that doesn't exist!

Figure that one out!

@mrmo

Somehow I managed to read all that, and the gist I got was just that the legislation refers to a now obsolete British Standard and therefore it will have to continue to, unless they change it (the legislation) to refer to something else.

I could read it all again just to check..

[url= http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_733069_langId_-1_categoryId_228860 ]WOWOW slap wraps[/url]... cheap and effective
[IMG] [/IMG]

WOWOW slap wraps... cheap and effective

indeed, but not amber, or attached to your pedals and therefore although handy for visibility not handy for adhering to the actual law.

I doubt very much this will have much impact, as many have said they're more likely to be targeting those with no lights or reflectors at all.

I always thought PCSOs couldn't detain anyone. Turns out I was wrong - I just googled it and apparently they have the legal right to detain an individual for up to 30 minutes (until the police can arrive). However, they don't have the right to use any sort of force. So there's absolutely nothing they can do to stop you from merely walking (or more likely pedalling) away.

You will have caused an offense, though, so I suppose they could make your life unpleasant if they could find you again.

The law seems awfully anachronistic though. No doubt it was written when dim tyre dynamo-powered lights were de rigeur. Nowadays when I have 1600 lumens up front + several flashy things on the back I'm far more visible.

Of course, if you get knocked off your bike at night without pedal reflectors, I suppose a driver's defense would be that you were riding illegally.

Superficial I rather suspect you are right.

I like pedal reflectors and I cannot work out why it seems to be such an issue for pedal manufacturers to create a non competition road and off road pedal that manages to house a reflector for commuters, training rides and leisure rider. Is it only England where we have these rules?

Will I give up my spds on the mountain bike for the mile or two I might ride on the road ....

According to that bikebiz article..
"the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill completed its passage through the House of Commons on 15th October. It is now subject to parliamentary scrutiny in the House of Lords."

So I'm a bit confused.This has nothing to do with PCSO'S, they didn't push it through the commons so why is this thread pretty much about slagging them off?
Oh and @fatsimon mk2, "I don't much is going to change most pcso I've come across know next to nothing about the law"
Maybe, but they could probably write a sentence better than you 🙄

Sigh

Saw 2 pcso at shepherds bush today on duty monitoring the traffic lights today -pary of the tfl crackdown they chatted away happily as a car and a bus had stopped in the ASL box a meter in front of them, wish I'd said something too them

Pedal reflectors work really well.

Carry on. 🙂

I like pedal reflectors and I cannot work out why it seems to be such an issue for pedal manufacturers to create a non competition road and off road pedal that manages to house a reflector for commuters, training rides and leisure rider.

Shimano SPD-SL (reflector mounts on the underside)
Time ATAC (plastic cage fits around the sides of the pedals)
Ritchey shimano SPD copies (reflectors mount front and back)

And those are just ones I've bought, I'm pretty sure there must be more!

trail_rat - Member
Reflectors on your pedals wont help drivers who are looking at their phone see you.

Actually as a driver I find pedal reflectors can be very good both in rural areas and in crowded busy streets at night - because it helps you recognise that what you can see is a cyclist quicker / further away. Not an excuse for mowing down cyclists if they don't have them - but if the aim is to maximise survival then not a bad idea to fit them.

What do they have to be like as a legal minimum. I'm up for putting some on my road bike pedals (flat/spd combo), but £7 is a lot for some plastic

I have reflective tape already (bike is covered in it) but I suspect putting this on the pedals won't be enough

The last 2 bikes I bought did not come with pedals what's the score there then? They're fully assembled but with no pedals how can they be expected to come with pedal reflectors?

The last 2 bikes I bought did not come with pedals what's the score there then? [b]They're fully assembled[/b] but with [b]no pedals[/b] how can they be expected to come with pedal reflectors?

Reading the requirements the rear light also needs to be between 150 and 350mm from the floor. I would guess most people have them mounted higher than this.

Its also not just pedal reflectors but there is a requiremesnt for a red rear reflector so if you did get stopped if you are not fully compliant you could get a ticket.

I would hope that the generally had more pressing matters to attend to. Personally I do not ahv an issue with them stopping cyclists riding on pavements particularly where it is busy.

So glad I live in Scotland.

even has cyclist interaction

Reading the requirements the rear light also needs to be between 150 and 350mm from the floor

Rear Lamp
One is required, to show a red light, positioned centrally or offside, between 350mm and 1500mm from the ground, at or near the rear, aligned towards and visible from behind

A couple of years ago i was stopped by a pcso.
They'd closed the side of the road I used for about a half mile and had diversion signs... no idea where the diversion went and didnt want to risk life and limb.
It was 7.15am in london.
alongside the closed section is a 25/30 foot wide pavement and you could see a long way ahead, it was summer, nice and light.
at that time in the morning there were no pedestrians.
as i had no idea where the diversion would take me I hopped on the pavement. naughty boy. another rider followed me.
we rode along slower than on the road.
two pcso's appeared from behind a building support and stopped us both.
they tried to do us for being a danger to pedestrians.

we stopped and said yer joking mate?

nope, apparently not.

they dealt with us individually and my guy asked for some ID. I said I didnt have any, my wallet was buried in my pack. so i gave him a false name and address, thanked him for the fine and walked 20 feet and rode away. the other guy was still arguing as I left.

****wits. whats happened to common sense in the world.

Obviously if I don't have pedal reflectors I will be invisible 🙄
If they cant see me they cant arrest me 8)