You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
-£14.5m last year
-£97m this year
That is a metric shed load of money - on £252m of income...
That is a metric shed load of money – on £252m of income…
Post Brexit, we should really be using British imperial units.
So, that's an imperial skip load of money.
It's down to all those free Haribos
£97m! Wow. Whoever designed the current website needs a bullet to the head... Was on there the other day looking for a drivetrain for mini-DBW #00002's new build. Cassettes, chains, mechs etc all in the same place. Cool. Shifters in a totally different place! Sort the stock and often leaves the top row as it was and sorts everything beneath it. Select the "In Stock" tick box and your choices immediately drop to very little (and what there is is usually bright pink in XXXXXXXXL etc).
Despite all that its my go-to as even with the lack of stock etc they still seem to have LOADS more options than the likes of Merlin (Merlin seemed to advertise more stuff when they had a double page spread in MBUK back in the day where they listed everything they sold!).
They’ve been slipping behind other retailers for years now. Poor availability of stock, bad website design, so-so prices, limited range of bike brands.
I haven't used them for years for all of the above reasons.
They used to be the one stop shop for almost anything you wanted and were almost guaranteed to be cheaper than anywhere else. Who remembers the free next day delivery? That was amazing.
I might only browse there now if I want a 9 year old road jersey in XXXL. It's like a dumping ground for stuff no one wants.
Bit of a worry, if CRC/Wiggle go pop, do they take Vitus, Nukeproof, Ragley, etc with them?
I'm pretty certain I've given them £97m over the last year or so.....
A mate of mine described them as the TJ Hughes equivalent for cycling and I haven't been able to stop thinking about that
The website design is absolutely terrible. It used to be so good for doing specific searches, e.g I want to look specifically aty 2.4 Wide Trail DHRs not 2.3 or 2.5s...)but they have removed all that functionality.
Have to say I've not used them for ages - delivery was really flaky - pay for next day and get it next week.
Now use Sigma or Merlin.
but they have removed all that functionality
I'm guessing it will all come back if they keep going.
At least I assume that's the plan as the current one is just rubbish...
bad website design, so-so prices
In a nutshell, especially the recent website redesigns. Used to spend a ton with them both when they were the go-to for best prices but now they're not that competitive.
A mate of mine described them as the TJ Hughes equivalent for cycling
Great analogy.
Is it that they aren't competitive or just that everyone else has caught up? The redesign really didn't help, I hope whoever headed that project up got their P45 swiftly afterwards.
I've used them twice in the past 4 years and even then I've spent barely £80 over those two transactions. I feel the same way about them as I do Amazon, I'd rather spend my money locally with real people.
There still in a far better position than most in there industry
Expect to see many a big name go belly up over the next 12 months sadly
There owners have enough fire power to ride this out
Poor availability of stock, bad website design, so-so prices, limited range of bike brands.
This really, I recently built a frame up, and didn't buy one single thing from them. Didn't have anything that I needed or wanted. Bought from Tweeks, Sigma, Merlin, Cyclestore, all over. Couple of years ago, I would've got pretty much everything from them
Over the past year, I'd guess I've bought from everywhere except Wiggle/CRC. Merlin, SJS, Tredz Saddleback and many much smaller retailers. Wiggle never seem to have enough stock of the right items to make the strange pricing/postage numbers work, so I end up going elsewhere.
Bit of a worry, if CRC/Wiggle go pop, do they take Vitus, Nukeproof, Ragley, etc with them?
I think the link into Hotlines is different enough now that those brands won’t be affected. Happy to be shown otherwise though
Merlin has been my default for years. The search facility on CRC/Wiggle seems to be like some kind of randomiser/chaos generator. Its perversely quite impressive how they've managed to get it so wrong
Tried to find a specific tyre last night. Gave up and bought from someone else on eBay that I found in seconds. The only thing keeping CRC/Wiggle alive right now is the UK customer base being cut off from their far better run and stocked competition in Germany and elsewhere (I suspect).
Are they actually making a loss or are they declaring a loss for tax purposes thats the important question. I agree that they aren’t as good as they used to be and the website is very frustrating especially when you select in stock only and it still bring us loa£ of out of stock items
The problem for all these online stores is that they’re competing with drop-shippers, and due to the vagaries of international postage, it’s often cheaper to post direct from the factory to the customer than it is to ship via a warehouse, no matter how much you buy in bulk.
The website is a complete mess - the descriptions for the items rarely match the images and the questions/answers seem to be for a whole raft of different variants, so you have no clarity on what you're buying. If they sorted that, made sure they had a good stock of small parts at reasonable prices, I'd guess a lot of business might return.
But, lets face it, there are simply fewer people buying bike stuff at the moment and that's only going to get worse next year as the interest rates really start to bite. Finance will be more expensive and people will have MUCH less disposable income and MTB sales and parts in particular will suffer.
Not sure where the bad pricing perspectives comes from. For me crc/wiggle often have the best pricing and wide range of stock. If you get Wiggle + (used to be £10 a year) that's unlimited next day DPD deliveries even on weekends, there's no other shop that compete there. Most shops are small and can take quite a few days to dispatch in my experience.
It does make me wonder how could who ever signed off the new web site structure be comfortable with their decision.
It is shoddy beyond belief and imho really didn't need the new design in any way.
Merlin and Sigma are my first calls now.
The only thing keeping CRC/Wiggle alive right now is the UK customer base being cut off from their far better run and stocked competition in Germany and elsewhere (I suspect).
Interesting point.
They mention losing trade from Europe post-Brexit, but would they have gained an equal or greater amount from UK customers who CBF working out how to buy from Germany any more?
Maybe not actually?
I still buy a fair bit from them, partly because they've had so many heavy discounts this year. Which may not be unconnected to this story.
Werent they bought by VCs?
And agree website is absolute shite. Missing basic ecomm functionality
I still buy a fair bit from them, partly because they’ve had so many heavy discounts this year. Which may not be unconnected to this story.
Yep. Still one of my go-to shops.
Are they actually making a loss or are they declaring a loss for tax purposes thats the important question.
They seem to have made sure its a real loss by the website redesign (I use design in its loosest context)
It's almost like the design brief was to alienate as many loyal customers as possible whilst making it indecipherable for the new ones.
I logged on to their website a few weeks ago for the first time in years to buy stuff for a mates bike and I had to double check it wasn’t a scam website as it viewed so piss-poor, wtf are they playing at with the design?, it worked and looked perfectly fine years ago?, needless to say I went elsewhere for a drivetrain
Werent they bought by VCs?
Private equity, which is slightly different.
The new website accessibility is terrible. So many basic sort functions have gone makes it really difficult to find anything. Sort by discount is the biggest one for me. The in stock button doesn't seem to match other search criteria selected.
Their stock item maintenance has become terrible. They seem to have multiple pages for the same item which is confusing and also the pictures/description often don't match the item sent out so has to be returned.
Some things seem to sell out and re-appear on sale. I guess this is when they re-plan and release parts for full bikes into component sales. Its very confusing though and creates frustration and indifference like Planet X.
Shame though, as their customer service is still really good. I get that its a difficult time due to brexit and new standards/models being released but the first two things are easy enough to fix.
Losing. Losing money. Although this reply probably belongs in the "things that make you cross" thread.
If you get Wiggle + (used to be £10 a year) that’s unlimited next day DPD deliveries even on weekends
My experience was they never actually managed to deliver next day, so just stopped using them YMMV.
Website is a joke now - takes ages to find anything specific - and sometimes it's not even in the right section.
I generally use them (Wiggle+) for the next day delivery, prices are all over the place lately though.
They mention losing trade from Europe post-Brexit
Thought CRC were northern Ireland? This would put them in a position to deal both with the rest of the UK and Europe?
Previous points raised and I think they price gouge. Nukeproof longs have been priced as low as 35 quid and as high as 80 or 90 for example. Seeing that sort of thing just puts me off. How do I know the thing I'm buying now won't be half the price tomorrow, or was half the price yesterday? I don't begrudge anyone making a living but this makes me feel like there's a fair chance in6 being ripped off.
I went on a massive rant about them losing their sort and filter features the other day - those were the best things about CRC so I'm glad I'm not alone in my frustrations!
My biggest issue is when they show something on sale for £5-£500 and the only option that "was" £5 has been out of stock for years.
Thought CRC were northern Ireland?
I think their warehouse is mainland based now. I want to say it's in the Midlands, but I might be imagining it.
I think I probably spend more at Merlin these days but it's probably marginal. Not that I dare look to find out.
How do I know the thing I’m buying now won’t be half the price tomorrow, or was half the price yesterday?
I've actually had that with them before - bought a set of forks and by the time they arrived the price of the website had dropped by £150. I got in touch with the customer support and said I'm going to return these and buy them again at £150, want to make it easier and just refund me £150. The answer was no, so I had to do it the hard way.
Agree with all the other comments on the website, using google seems to be the best way to find a specific product. Their pricing generally seems competitive, but no longer the go site for components.
The whole enterprise seems to be unfocused. CRC is MTB biased, but still has the same huge random clearance stock that wiggle has. Wiggle is trying to be more generally outdoors, fitness and road, but misses the focus of Alpkit.
The inhouse brands, Vitus, Nukeproof, DHB, Föhn all seem good value and well thought out and to me it seems strange that they don't focus more on these instead of stocking alongside brands such as Orro.
You can see the accounts at Companies House https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07862446/filing-history
The big loss makes good headlines, but includes £36m costs relating to the sale, £25m interest (relating mainly to the pre-sale debt when they were owned by private equity), £15m FX losses, £14.5m depreciation and amortisation (of which £10.5m related to goodwill so that's just an accounting thing). Actual trading loss was £5.8m (vs profit of £34.2m in 2021). Still not great, but less apocalyptic...
UK revenue fell from £231m to £156m, whereas rest of Europe fell from £53m to £21m (rest of world held steady).
I still use them fairly regularly (along with Merlin, Tweeks and a few others). I definitely won't use Sigma Sports any more after a horrendous warranty experience (I had to circumvent Sigma's warranty guy and go direct to SRAM to get it sorted). I thought it might have been a one-off but a clubmate had the same thing (with the same guy) when the chainstay on his Trek MTB failed (the Trek shop in Wilsmlow came to his rescue and sorted it out). The warranty guy is patronising and doesn't listen to anything so it was extremely frustrating...
I've been locked out of Wiggle since the new site launched. unable to register with either of my email addesses, and support are generally uninterested. They suggested deleting my CRC account (which does work) so that I can create a wiggle account.
Their new site seems to have been a disaster in every way, and I read an article saying they spent £14.5M in exceptional costs, which was being attributed to the new site.
I seem to be able to find whatever I am looking for very quickly and the prices are mostly competitive to start with but when reducing by platinum amount then cheaper than elsewhere. I always go for free delivery and I have got every item I have ordered over the last year or so within 2 working days.
My experience is that Wiggle (the site and pricing) is good for clothing but awful for things like tyres.
The only thing keeping CRC/Wiggle alive right now is the UK customer base being cut off from their far better run and stocked competition in Germany and elsewhere (I suspect).
A few years ago they were the best option for me in Oz too. $80 and free shipping made sense, one week and it would be at my door, which is often as quick as domestic post here. The Australian competitors were $100 for free postage.
Then CRC changed to $200. They must have lost a lot of our market now.
I don't understand the point about losing sales from Europe, it's just as easy for me to order from them as it's always been, no surprise charges - which are a risk with smaller UK based retailers.
There was a quirk for about a year where full bikes on Wiggle (but not CRC) were priced as if it was without VAT when set to ship to Ireland. But VAT was paid by them, so there was an effective ~20% discount. They fixed it after the new site was launched.
Agree with all comments above about the website and bad stock.
Used to be the default destination for me, with free postage that you’d usually get the next day.
Now barely even look at them. Terrible broken website, nothing ever in stock in the size or colour you want, low pricing, but then you check and it’s only on XXXXL size in line green, M or L is twice the price. Can often get better deals elsewhere.
Unless they turn it around soon I can see them losing even more customers.
Post Brexit, we should really be using British imperial units.
So, that’s an imperial skip load of money.
I believe the current UK government approved metric for pissing money away is the 'Kwarteng' CRC have lost approximately 0.3 Kwarteng'
Googling it, I'm a little unclear about who currently owns them, there seems to be a couple of different German outfits named Signa Sports United(?) Or Bike24 (or are they the same thing?) Wikipedia says Bridgepoint Capital (NatWest group) or is that old information?
Either way isn't this what big investment groups do now, buy up moderate turnover e-commerce businesses based in Blighty and then stuff their losses in to them as a tax minimisation wheeze, knowing the UK government doesn't give a monkeys.
Totally biased, zero knowledge cynicism on my part, I'm sure a proper capitalist will be along to correct me and say it's down to something sensible like strangled supply chains, import duties or a global downturn, but where's the fun in that...
The Wiggle + next day delivery didn’t work for me either and even then, IIRC it was only on orders exceeding £10. It does offer free returns though, which can be useful.
Cycling product attributes for ecommerce is getting to be a nightmare. Clothing is gender/size/colour/other, parts are a mess of fitting and compatibility now so the search / filters side of it is chaos on some sites.
Googling it, I’m a little unclear about who currently owns them, there seems to be a couple of different German outfits named Signa Sports United(?) Or Bike24 (or are they the same thing?) Wikipedia says Bridgepoint Capital (NatWest group) or is that old information?
They used to be owned by Bridgepoint - but were acquired by Signa Sports in 2022 (based in Berlin but NYSE listed). who also own Bikester and other bike/tennis/outdoor sites.
Lots of sites do it well, including bike24, CRC's owner.
I like R2 bikes filtering and search, you can even sort by weight
Well ive been watching all the stuff they are dumping for below manufacturing cost to get sales and wondering when they are going to run out or go pop? Im sure their new owners have very deep pockets to keep pouring money in a hole. Shafting all the shops who sell nukeproof is going to be doing them long term harm in that respect.
Nukeproof pedals for nigh on what they will be buying them for in Asia, Raceface chainrings £55 now £8, all those frames. smelt a bit of desparation to me.
Maybe im just being a bit cynical here
Neil (superstar components)
Apart from the new website being rubbish I can honestly ay I have never had a single issue with crc or wiggle in all the time I have used them. Still cheap enough and still quick enough
Can I add my sales history was 20 pages long.
They used to be the first place I'd go, but hardly ever use them now. Over the last couple of years it's been Sigma and Merlin for me. I'm not sure I could pinpoint exactly why, but it didn't help that both Wiggle and CRC redesigns were awful.
That recent web redesign must be a huge chunk of that loss - I've not used them since I think, who ever thought that up as a good idea must have got the sack by now?
dangeourbrain
Full MemberI wonder how much is interest on the loan used to buy them.
You don't get to find that out til years after a company goes bust in which time everyone's either forgotten or been convinced that they failed for other reasons, a la Maplin.
I agree on terrible website.
The fact they never remove a product when it's out of stock from Google or thier own search - so you waste time finding is XXS and was out of stock a year back.
Really odd stock of sizes or items too.
I just gave up even looking at thier website, let alone buying.
I disliked their website before it was cool 😎
The original site displayed really poorly on my phone, almost as if I was being redirected to the desktop site.
Merlin have been my default for almost everything now, often a bit cheaper too.
The website re-design has been a disaster.
The main driver behind it, was all the companies were running separate systems. Wiggle, CRC, and Hotlines all had their own systems, so there was a lot of manual stock moving going on behind the scenes.
However the changeover didn't go smoothly. The new public frontends are rubbish. B2B didn't work and Hotlines couldn't ship anything for weeks.
And then CRC/Wiggle decided to dump stock at stupidly low prices, so you could buy direct cheaper than the trade price from Hotlines.
Essentially CRC Wiggle have managed to screw themselves on pretty much every sales channel over the past year, so it's no real surprise that they've made a big loss.
That recent web redesign must be a huge chunk of that loss – I’ve not used them since I think, who ever thought that up as a good idea must have got the sack by now?
I'm guessing it was outsourced to India in a lowest bidder wins style scenario and they got what they paid for....
Our company did that for a new Network Management System, it finally arrived Dead on Arrival, not fit for purpose, was never used and the whole project canned (as they'd spent the money and didn't have any more).
I recently bought a pair of Endura armoured shorts from a small bike shop I'd never heard of for £10 cheaper than Wiggle/CRC , ordered on a Sunday delivered on the Wednesday 👍
I agree on terrible website.
The fact they never remove a product when it’s out of stock from Google or thier own search – so you waste time finding is XXS and was out of stock a year back.
This.
Also bought a load of stuff a few weeks back on next day so we could go riding at the weekend - didn't arrive.
Contacted customer services, refunded postage, wait till tomorrow - didn't arrive.
Contacted customer services again, oh it was picked up by Fedex by mistake, we'll tell them to get it to you ASAP.
Week after I bought it it finally arrived, dumped on the doorstep whilst I was out by Evri.
Went back to store drops after that. Only bought from them again because they were the only ones who had what I needed. Won't be back if I can help it.
I used to go straight to Wiggle/CRC as they were always the cheapest and delivery was very quick, free returns were also great. I was buying something at least once a month, had platinum loyalty discount (I think everyone did!) and received regular emails with genuine bargains.
DHB used to be good value, good fit and quality but they introduced a fancier line of DHB clothing and it didn't make sense as you could buy Rapha, Castelli etc. For the same price or less. The core DHB clothing line was forgotten about and size availability went downhill (Unless you need xxs).
I gave them another go recently as I needed a cassette and they had what I needed, it turned up in a box but the rings were loose and two were missing. I couldn't call them as I couldn't see a telephone number so I sent a message and after explaining the situation I was asked for photos of the cassette, eventually advised I could send it back and they would send a label (which didn't turn up), it took almost a week just to arrange the return.
I've never seen such a disorganised website, could you imagine if this was a bricks and mortar store? "Looking for socks sir......you'll find them in the homeware section, on the roof next to the basement, if they're in stock" its crazy and been like this for years, it must be costing them a fortune in lost sales?
I've given up looking at their site these days and could honestly say over the last 12 months I've spent what I could've easily spent in a month a couple of years ago with Wiggle/CRC, its a real shame as I used to spend ages looking at their site, reading reviews and filling my basket.
I really hope they improve but competitors are catching up, even the likes of Amazon are sometimes better.
Just to echo, the website sucks ass now, used to be my default but hasn't been for a couple of years probably more.
Wow that is a lot. Used to use them quite a lot but most recent purchases have all been elsewhere. Final straw was trying to buy inner tubes and having to wade through pages of nonsense with no suitable filters.
Wonder if Amazon and these direct to china type apps are stealing a bit of their market. Especially for folk new into cycling their brand doesn't mean anything and you can get almost any typical spares off of Amazon prime sellers.
DHB used to be good value, good fit and quality but they introduced a fancier line of DHB clothing and it didn’t make sense as you could buy Rapha, Castelli etc. For the same price or less. The core DHB clothing line was forgotten about and size availability went downhill (Unless you need xxs).
Yeah, I recently unearthed some pretty old 'Aeron' bibs which are lighter, better in heat, the mediums fit me really well and somehow they still haven't gone translucent.
I also bought some dhb 'Classic' Bib Shorts recently (discounted of course) which are comfortable enough but have a weird, longer leg fit where they're almost at my knees, nothing else DHB I've ever had from them has fitted like that it's quite odd. I don't quite get why they've started messing about with the fit and shape of their established clothing that people were probably buying as a matter of course...
Agree with everything that has been said.
What I don't understand is why they don't differentiate? Make Wiggle Run, Swim and Tri and CRC just bikes.
And then spend another load of money on consultants deciding how to split the two brands 🤦♂️.
The Wiggle + next day delivery didn’t work for me either and even then, IIRC it was only on orders exceeding £10. It does offer free returns though, which can be useful.
i never have a problem adding stuff to make up 20 quid to get free postage. Unfortunately. But you can also return stuff so you can get your money back for those socks you added to your cart.
But you can also return stuff so you can get your money back for those socks you added to your cart.
Except they no longer do free returns, having sent back a couple of items recently it's £2.99
We’re still getting free returns with Wiggle+
theres no option to filter tyres by wheel size !!
twonks
Full Member
It does make me wonder how could who ever signed off the new web site structure be comfortable with their decision
Some over paid product owner who has no idea about the user experience.
In a related note I am amazed at how many websites seem to have removed the possibility of navigating the tree, i.e. Google has taken me to a maxxis tyre but I want to go up and look at all MTB tyres or all tyres, but no I have to go right up to the top and back down. Just give me. A "up" button.
What I don’t understand is why they don’t differentiate? Make Wiggle Run, Swim and Tri and CRC just bikes.
And then spend another load of money on consultants deciding how to split the two brands 🤦♂️.
I suppose either URL is just a front end to the same e-commerce platform, although not long after their recent great reset there were some alternative prices on items between wiggle and CRC, so it's worth double checking.
My other favourite feature currently is ticking the "in stock only" filter only to discover that doesn't seem to work for items that they've marked "stock expected soon" or something, clearly the fields in their database and the available search options don't align.
But this is probably their parent company trying to wrangle two very similar businesses into being one.
The funny thing is I once described wiggle as "Amazon but for bike stuff" to my family and hence I get a wiggle e-voucher or two every birthday and Christmas. But you know what's becoming increasingly useful for cycling odds and ends? Amazon, they don't have everything but various shops sell stuff through them and the occasional bargain pops up it's worth checking on CRC/wiggle, merlin, sigma, etc and nowadays Amazon just to be sure.
The CRC warranty experience certainly leaves a lot to be desired. Sorting in their depot can take up to (and did) 2 weeks...... How???? They really were awesome in days gone by but yeah, I try to shop locally first then go to other retailers these days. Pity.