So I've found a super-stubborn tyre/rim combo that is causing me real grief for tubeless (RaceFace 35mm Offset + Schwalbe 2.35 Super Gravity in case you were wondering. I have a 40L compressor that can store 80 PSI but even that is failing. I even made a short hose in case the long 5m one was limiting the flow.
The rim's a bit too wide which means the tyre has ~1cm to move from the central channel before it hits the rim hook, and the tyre is really stiff. So air is gushing out and the tyre isn't budging at all.
With a tube, it needed 60psi before it clacked into the bead hook - so I've seated one side but even now the other side won't move.
My coke bottle exploded and I am wary about making another.
Should I buy an Airshot? I think it should work and I don't exactly mind spending the money, but I'll be pissed if even that doesn't get the job done. Has anyone had a tyre that an Airshot just wouldn't work on?
Did you leave the tube in for 24 hours etc to loosen it up?
Yes. Probably Schwalbe road or gravel tyres on my hunt wheels. When that happens I find a garage with a compressor.
I also resorted to some soap on the bead too.
Did you leave the tube in for 24 hours etc to loosen it up?
No. How does that help? It's now got a tube in so you're saying it's worth trying again in 24 hours?
When that happens I find a garage with a compressor.
I have a compressor though! Are garage ones significantly more powerful?
My Airshot has struggled with gravel tyres, but never MTB tyres.
Leaving a tube in for a few days works. Unseat one side of tyre, remove tube and try again. You should have a tyre fully seated on one side.
Removing the valve core gets better results.
I'm expecting My new Aldi compressor will make swift work of gravel tyres, judging by their performance on a set of MTB tyres a couple of days ago.
^^Yep, as above regarding the inner tube.
I've had an Airshot fail to inflate a tyre, I then cleaned the wheel out and did this
Did you leave the tube in for 24 hours etc to loosen it up?
I now cant get the tyres off again the beads tight AF
*******
Oh get in, literally just got this tyre off
I knew I kept my climbing shoes for something 😆
Not my airshot as I've got the beto tank. Did try an airshot on a tyre and it failed. Not even that big a tyre (27.5 2.3ish). Same tyre went up first time with my beto inflator.
Yes, but only ones that are not tubeless and i'm trying to ghetto it... It's never failed on a dedicated tubeless tyre.
Soapy water around the bead can help, having the wheel resting on the floor at the valve so the tyre is sealed against the rim at that point. Pumping furiously after releasing the air tank, sometimes it's only just been enough to get the bead to touch the rim and then furious pumping helps seat the bead. Extra layer of rim tape. Valve core removed though I assume you're already doing that.
Can't think of anything else right now.
I would say that if your compressor doesn't work then an Airshot will have no chance.
Have you considered using those CushCore things ? one of those might hold the bead of the tyre closer to the rim while you try to inflate.
And yes, I've had an Airshot fail many times particularly in the circumstances you mention.
Definately soapy water too.
Super Gravity cases are a nightmare to seat, especially brand new, it needs to be done a certain way to stop it not inflating, i found that by centering the tyre bead in the channel, and not having the wheel on the ground when inflating, it had a better chance of inflating, thumb over the top of the tyre where the valve is can help as well, it's a weird way of working, but i find if i try to inflate whilst the wheel is on the ground the air seems to just shoot out at the bottom where the tyre is slightly deformed due to ground pressure.
This doesn't happy on any other tyre i use, including Maxxis DDs, the super gravity are just a very stiff tyre due to the protection unfortunately.
Has failed to do a few combos. Mainly plus tyres and rims. Mounted with tube them took only one side off. Worked fine once one side seated.
Airshot s been fine but as everyone else’s say don’t bother if you can’t get the conpressor to do it.
You could always try a strap around it to see if the sidewalls will squeeze out.
I’ve just done a pair which were a bit of a nightmare and tbh I’m thinking of going for some inside foam as my concern is that on the trail if you get too much deflation they’ll be impossible to get back on and would require a tube, which is fine if the tyres are easy enough to get off.
I don't think that I've ever managed to get the tube out by only unseating one side of the tyre.
Is there magic involved?
I have the opposite experience of Super Gravity casings, they seat like a dream for me. It's an strange world innit.
i have an airshot and recently couldn't get a vittoria peyote TNT to inflate.
Tried a strap around the tyre - still wouldn't inflate .
As above, in the end i put a tube in for 24 hours, pumped upto 60 psi. Carefully removed the tube leaving one side seated and it then inflated first time. To build on this, if you dont mind sacrificing the tube, is to unseat a small section of tyre near the valve, cut the the tube and pull it out leaving the majority of the tyre seated. it should then inflate with no issues.
If you need 60 psi to get it to pop on then the combo is never going to work, give up now.
I have the opposite experience of Super Gravity casings, they seat like a dream for me.
I think it's the rim width here. I had no trouble at all with the same tyres on a 25mm rim. They're just incredibly tight - which is a good thing if they are near the bead seat and just need a nudge but a bad thing if they need to slide a long way across the rim to get any form of seal.
The compressor is great for sustained air flow but it doesn't give that short/sharp burst like the Coke bottle (and Airshot, I imagine). To be honest, if I could only have one tool, while the compressor makes life easier, I think the Coke bottle is probably more effective on stubborn tyres. Compressor --> Coke bottle --> tyre is the best of both worlds of course. Release the pressure and then follow up immediately with the compressor.
I don’t think that I’ve ever managed to get the tube out by only unseating one side of the tyre.
You have to be a bit careful but it's not too hard - and arguably easier when the tyres are welded onto each side of the rim.
if you dont mind sacrificing the tube, unseat a small section of tyre near the valve, cut the the tube and pull it out leaving the majority of the tyre seated. it should then inflate with no issues.
That thought had crossed my mind, I decided it was a bit wasteful, but my patience is wearing thin... I wondered if I could use an oversized tube with knots at each side that I could slip in and out (and thus get more than one use out of).
If you need 60 psi to get it to pop on then the combo is never going to work, give up now.
This is probably sensible advice. However, I managed (not without difficulty) a Magic Mary in supposedly the same casing / width so I'm sure a Rock Razor must be possible.
I must confess that despite seating countless tyres tubeless, I've never needed soapy water before so I guess that's the next thing to try. Or maybe it's time to experiment with deodorant and lighters (What could go wrong?). Urgh, I'm not looking forward to the prospect of another battle again tonight.
Leaving a tube in for a few days works. Unseat one side of tyre, remove tube and try again. You should have a tyre fully seated on one side.
Removing the valve core gets better results.
I had a Beto tank fail repeatedly until I did the above, valve cores out and seating tyres with a tube first and leaving one side seated. Doesn't even need to be a few days in my experience although that's typically been with 'old' tyres, newer tyres with kinks still in the bead might benefit from longer.
I saw a website recommending beeswax furniture polish as being better than soapy water but haven't needed to experiment yet.
If a compressor cant seat it then you have no hope with an airshot. It's a good tool but the burst of air is short and sharp.
You shouldn't need to but sometimes a ratchet strap around the outside of the tyre helps as it pushes the tyre towards the rim and spreads it out.
Wire bead yes....
Hair dryer and gloves.. heat it up so the rubber is ductile then bent the kink out of the wire bead whilst still hot/warm...
Fairly regularly. Mainly depends on tyre vs rim tolerances and how many wraps of tape you use in my experience- if the tyre to rim gap is too big for the amount of air you’ve got going in, everything else can help but ‘ye cannae change the laws of physics’.
I didn't see if you'd tried doing it when removing the valve core or not? Apologies if you have but if not then give that a go. With it in you can't get enough air in quick enough with rims that wide. With the core removed I've never failed, including with fat bike tyres on rims 80mm wide.
Soapy water or any other kind of lubricant won't help in this case. That's to get the tyre to seat on a tight bead without going to stupid pressure, if you can't get the tyre to meet the bead it will have no effect.
I didn’t see if you’d tried doing it when removing the valve core or not? Apologies if you have but if not then give that a go.
Sorry, yes I always remove the valve cores.
The descriptions above make me thing that one of the next "must-have" accessories for MTB is going to be a tyre cage for safely inflating tyres...
I actually reckon my old compressor was probably worse for seating than my Current ghetto Tubeless inflator.
It's flow rate you need, you can have lots of volume in a tank, but if there's a valve or something limiting flow rate (as there probably is) then it's going to struggle eventually.
Soapy water or any other kind of lubricant won’t help in this case. That’s to get the tyre to seat on a tight bead without going to stupid pressure, if you can’t get the tyre to meet the bead it will have no effect.
It can't hurt and sometimes it is as simple as that light contact friction between the rubber on the bead and the taped surface just snagging and preventing seating while air pisses past.
Cores out, lube the bead (IME the most effective lube for seating a tyre is actually baby oil) try to get all of the bead sitting uniformly in the well to start, and just hit it with as much air velocity as you can...
A ratchet strap or similar round the outer circumference of the tyre has been known to help too, gives the carcass something to push against evenly all the way round and forces the sides to deflect out...
But yeah the biggest, poshest tool (a compressor) isn't always the best for seating a tyre.
Jack-a-knack-a-nory!!
The combination of soapy water and a ratchet strap did it. Front and rear!
They all go on eventually, it's just a matter of perseverance and trying all the stupid suggestions the internet offers...
Nice one op, glad you got them sorted.👍😁
yes - conti projekt baron but a tube in the tyre for a day sorted the bead shape.
current tyres on sophies bike but the tyres are at fault here not the airshot. tried on two different rims.
Try this. Really clever.
I tried that tip above, started well but ultimately just seemed faffier way to achieve the same thing that fitting a tube does.
Worth a try though, maybe I just needed more practice...
Yes, right now, for the first time.
27.5x2.4 Wild Enduro on 25mm internal.
I change out winter for 'summer' tyres every year and occasionally I struggle a little bit, but not like this.
I've had a tube in it at 40 psi for a few days.
When I deflate the tube one side unseats, but the other side is seated all the way round.
Airshot still doesn't do the trick.
Soapy water, Ratchet strap, on the floor, off the floor.
Dried it all out, hot air gun (not too close 🙂 ) tried that vid trick above.
Still no joy.
Was actually thinking about getting a compressor!
Not used my Airshot since I got one of those Lidl pumps. Works fine. Without the airshit falling all over the place 😆
I had a Magic Mary that wouldn't seal recently - it was used though, so I put it down to the bead being damaged/streched, what with them being so bleeding hard to get off the rims.
Only tyres my Schweppes 1 litre bottle (Pumped to about 80psi) has failed to seat have been ones with kinked beads or where the rubber has rubbed off the bead. This includes baggy old 26er non tubeless folding tyres too.
However using a TR tyre makes the hole thing so much less effort
Well in the end my Wild Enduro went up easily with the airshot...
After I put a layer of electrical tape in the rim well, over the tubeless tape. The tiny increase in circumference did the trick.
It can’t hurt and sometimes it is as simple as that light contact friction between the rubber on the bead and the taped surface just snagging and preventing seating while air pisses past.
Cores out, lube the bead (IME the most effective lube for seating a tyre is actually baby oil)
I favour Silicone spray (Screwfix sell it for push fit plumbing) as the least messy option.
My Vittoria xc tyres (tnt) on mavic carbon rims defeated my specialized airshot. The bottle is like 1.5 times the size of an airshot, and it took 3 goes @ 150psi to get the ping. Each shot sort of seated part of the bead, so I would lube the next part of the bead with either tyre sealant or soapy water then give it another 150psi. 8 inflations across two wheels and you'll be sweating!
