[Closed] Has mountain biking become the new golf

Ok, I'll bite. 😉

I know its a joke on here but am I the only one trying to avoid Audi driving... mtb'ers

Well, I can't avoid myself.

For the record I started in 1994

Personally, I can't stand you 'Johnny come lately's'. If you're not pre-1990 you shouldn't be on the trail.

I don't mind people having fun I mind them being in my personal space

That's not what you said to me last time.

even the quality of nob has gone down

Post-1993, almost certainly.

Looks like all the fair weather bikers stayed in and did their nails today.

I found the receipt for my first ever MTB 1990 montage, so that's 26 years of biking in all ,tempus fugit.

1990 montage, so that's 26 years of biking in all ,tempus fugit.

Indeed it does. Have you had a chip on your shoulder for all of it?

Out of interest, where, in the range of mtbs available at the time, did it sit?

Tell me, does using Latin reinforce your view of your own superiority?

Well I was out today, but judging by the number of comments you've posted on this thread, OP, I assume you didn't find time 😉

but judging by the number of comments you've posted on this thread

What 0 in the 10 hours since my last post, your logic and my observation posted at 8am this morning from a car park full of bikers 🙄

I like my Audi, it's a good car. Should I be in a position to buy a Santa Cruz mountain bike, I'd be very tempted, they're good bikes.

For the record, as others have shared, I first started mountain biking around 1989/90 on a 15 speed Emmelle which I suspect was made of wrought iron.

Riding since 88. Multiple SantaCruz's in my time. Do I win a prize?
Ride what you like no one gives a hoot.

I do so hate to agree with Stu, but I'm going to have to! 🙂

I remember bodging some cranks onto a scrambler back in the early 70s, simultaneously inventing mountainbiking and the first full suspension mtb. Singlespeeding too. I called rufty tufty biking back then. When I held the inaugural rufty tufty biking world champs there were only two competitors, me and a one legged alcoholic who lived in the forest and shouted obscenities at me.

Suffice to say, I won. Not long after dominating the sport I quit in favour of road riding wherein I invented time trial and cyclocross.

I do not own a Santa Cruz or an Audi, but I felt the above needed saying.

I miss those days off getting pissed while standing on one leg and swearing at jimjam. 😥

STW is great, 3 pages of reaction from some obvious trolling, business as usual 🙂

I have a santa Cruz and and an Orange and a SS

I used to be niche but as everything is 26 " theese days I am a bit retro

How big is your personal space? Measured in km?

Km? Rank amateur, I measure mine in nautical miles.

Had to sell my Audi to pay for the bikes. Love riding out in the wild and trail centres. What's not to like? (except you)

I must admit I preferred cycling when fewer people did it and it was seen as being odd to do it

To be fair as the OP had said in the thread. As long as you are not a nob who cares. Ride anything as long as it is safe and 1st ride, last ride or somewhere inbetween - it's all good.

Every time this thread comes up, I post this.

I wouldn't mind rich people mountain biking so much if they could just be a bit more generous and swing their old bikes* to me.

* usually about six months I believe.

Golf is too difficult.

Perception is everything.

Just last weekend I turned up at Cannock, took a top of the range Orange Five off the roof rack of a brand new Mercedes estate and slowly rode round 12 miles of man made trails whilst wearing mostly Rapha gear.

To the outsider I looked like one of the newcomers the OP Is moaning about.

In reality I've been riding mtbs since 1986, raced the original Malverns for several years until someone was murdered in the tent next to me, had the first Orange Clockwork, worked in the trade and all sorts. Just because I've been lucky enough to have a successful career and therefore buy decent stuff, and unlucky enough to have an injury meaning I currently ride slow.

Sod off.

Just because I've been lucky enough to have a successfully career and therefore buy decent stuff

Whadju buy an orange 5 for then? Heh heh. Heh.

Whadju buy an orange 5 for then? Heh heh

Serious answer? Because I love Orange bikes, and have done for 25 years. I've ridden most things and frankly for the limits of my ability and the riding I do, a Five is fine.

mcnultycop - Member
Golf has that corporate feel.
Putting my Canyon in my Lexus and getting out in the hills is a different experience.

🙂

When we start destroying vast areas of natural land to lay down a few bits of nice grass and fancy club house with a dress code we might be getting close.
Until then people can drive a ride what they like.

jamj1974 - Member
To be fair as the OP had said in the thread. As long as you are not a nob who cares.

Serious answer?

I wouldn't have dignified it with a response 🙂

I'm of the opinion that mountain biking has become the new Rolf

Just avoid trail centres OP, all the ex golfers seem adverse to natural trails and stick to groomed stuff. You never see an unreplaced divot or unraked bunker at a trail centre do you?

Surely that's the equivalent of a braking bump?

rOcKeTdOg - Member
Just avoid trail centres OP

Golf has that corporate feel.

Putting my Canyon in my Lexus and getting out in the hills is a different experience.

You failed to give a nod to your clothing and tyre sponsors, but otherwise, a strong 8/10 for effort and completely losing everyone else with your ironing!

Chapeau sir!

IMBA reckon there's now more people in the USA who own a mountain bike than golf clubs.
So, in that sense, yes.

rOcKeTdOg - Member

You never see an unreplaced divot or unraked bunker at a trail centre do you?

HAH. The equivalent of an unreplaced divot would be skidding everywhere and never lifting a shovel.

Roadying is the new golf. MTBing is still far too niche.

"It's the future, I've tasted it...."

[img] [/img]

Mountain bike sales are flatlining

Doesn't that mean they've died?

Look at some of the sponsors in the road riding world (and I include sportives in there): Dimension Data, ING Direct, Maserati, Tag Heuer, Jaguar. They are sponsoring cycling because that's where their customers are going.

Interesting point, but is it the other way around? Customer demographic pulling them in.

Anyway, it's quite simple.

Rule 1: Don't be a dick
Rule 2: See Rule 1.

I usually ride stright from home, and to be honest I very very rarely see any other mountian bikers. When I do, we ignore each other as we almost certainly know one another and secret training is a shameful secret not to be spoken of.

brassneck - Member
Anyway, it's quite simple.
Rule 1: Don't be a dick
Rule 2

Think that sums it up nicely. Mountain biking and life.

I live and, mostly, ride in Surrey.

There certainly are a lot of blokes with money, flash cars and bikes, but honestly, so what?

If you are making an argument against rich people having nice stuff, fair enough, but it isn't a mtb argument.

I get the point that over-crowded trails are annoying, but that's really an argument against the sport becoming more popular.

I think one of the reasons road cycling [i]has[/i] grown much more rapidly than mtb is that mtbers and the culture is a bit more spiky, less club orientated, dare I say it a bit more selfish.

I think there is also a valuable point to make about the consumerism in mountain biking. We all like nice toys, and, if I'm honest, if I had some spare cash going I would definately splash it on some new kit.

Equally, the industry does seem to focus a lot of its development on aspirational marginal performance gains which don't help the average rider. For instance, I probably wouldn't notice the stiffness gains of the move to boost, but if they could improve the durability of hub / headset / BB bearings that would be a big plus to me.

But, objectively, unless someone is slagging you off for having an older bike / cheap stuff (In which case they are a total loser and laugh it off) someone else having good kit doesn't harm you, the harm is only in your head.

Frankly it isn't the new golf - that is road cycling - but I would agree that like pretty much everything it is fairly fashion orientated and commercialised. Opt out of worrying about it.

I remember around 5 years ago I was chatting to a well known skills coach. He thought back then that MTB was the new golf, as in it was being taken up by affluent the "middle classes " with plenty of disposable income and these people were his target market.

I think there is an element of that still.

I've noticed at work that a few of the senior chaps have got into cycling in the last couple of years and thrown a fair bit of cash at it. It's their money and time. If they've having fun who cares? One of teh guys rides a lot (road and MTB) and is pretty good. One of the others normally has a wobble about this time of year and parks his up for the winter. One of them is much more into buying nice bikes than actually riding.

The 'lifestyle' element has really kicked in though at train centres. The Audi is so last year. It's all about the VW Transporter these days.

I've ridden since '96 and have had a few breaks along the wya but keep coming back to MTB's. It is more popular and things like train centres have helped. Surely it's a good thing? There do seem to be a few more tools about...the worst ones I come across are the wannabe racers in team kit. Most are pretty affable.

This discussion is a mini class war isn't it, ie "rich" blokes wth nice cars and expensive bikes are destroying this "grass roots" sport. Plus of course they are "all the gear and no idea" whilst the ordinary blokes are the real riders ? Frankly I'm a pretty ordinary rider but I'm fairly sure Cotic and Hope are happy I'm buying their quality products.

We sold our very nice A6 Quattro Estate for £6k - so are all owners of £6k cars the "wrong sort" ?

I agreee, if you are going to be class-war about mountain biking you have to be class war about other things too.

Also, what is wrong with [i]average [/i] riders having nice stuff?

I probably don't [i]need [/i] 203mm ice-tech rotors, but they do do the job rather well, especially if you are heavy. I know they won't let me down.

Some things are gucci for gucci's sake - a lot of riding glasses fit in to this category IMO, but its their money.

It's not just a class thing though. Think of how much easier it is to join a club now that the internet exists compared to pre-internet days, especially given the explosion in social media.

Previously, to join a mtb club would mean heading off to meet a bunch of guys you'd never met before in a muddy field somewhere with no idea of what was in store for you or whether they were a bunch of nice guys or total Be**-ends.

Now, you can peruse a website, view photos, check out message boards, exchange emails or even check the average speed of the weekly club-run on Strava to see how you measure up. There's a lot less barriers to taking the plunge of heading off to introduce yourself to your local club.

I'm pretty sure climbing, fell-running, open water swimming, triathlon clubs and many others are all reporting an increase in numbers at the moment? There's a lot less barriers to it these days.

This discussion is a mini class war isn't it, ie "rich" blokes wth nice cars and expensive bikes are destroying this "grass roots" sport.

Nothing that can't be solved by buying a niche* bike to prove how much more of a 'real' MTB'er you are

* see the latest SS/clown/rigid/fat fashion trend du jour

One of my local trails goes across a Golf course. I neither have a Santa Cruz or an Audi though so I don't stop to network!!

The 'lifestyle' element has really kicked in though at train centres. The Audi is so last year. It's all about the VW Transporter these days.

Has it or is this just a symptom of the participants getting older and circumstances changing?

I'd have a T5 in a flash. 3 boys and a wife who cycles = 1 x 29", 2 x 26", 1x 24" and 1 x20" wheel bikes. You can just about do that with towbar rack and one in the boot, but give it a year and it'll be tow bar rack and 1 or 2 on the roof. Not sure how that's possible in an S Max for a weeks camping.

When it was just me and Mrs B off to races, everything fitted in an Almera, no rackes required. Had to put the seats down mind!

Its really not as you have to buy clubs and then pay each time you play.
You can buy a bike for next to nothing - though none of us do this- and riding it is then free

You have to be trolling /trying to get a reaction here as that is just silly

is it?

$150 quid for a set of second had bats/bag/balls and £15 quid a round near me. Compare that with a cheap mtb, basic seriving and tools and helmet and the costs are similar.

I started golf around the same time as i bought my first mtb, back in 1992. Bike cost me way more than my clubs!

My local municipal course is 25 quid a go. Do that once a week, adds up to £1300 just to play. Then there's all the bats and silly clothing to add on.

£25 quids worth of petrol to a local trail centre each week adds up to the same amount if you're going to pick random numbers to justify things.

And whilst we complaining about the 'silly clothing' golfers wear I think we need to look closer to home as well.

I'm hoping the magazines aren't putting new bikers off. Apparently I need to spend over £1500 to get an entry-level full susser. And those latest £950 forks are decent value too... 😯

We're not a niche market anymore. Get over it.

£25 quids worth of petrol to a local trail centre each week adds up to the same amount if you're going to pick random numbers to justify things.

Not like that it isn't! Who lives in walking distance of a golf club?

Well, I overlook the local one so I do, for one...

I suspect golfers also live pretty local to the club they play at. Yes, it might be a couple of miles, and yes they will no doubt drive there.

My point was that some random numbers we made up to justify that golf was 'expensive' and mountain biking wasn't. Both [i]can[/i] be as expensive as you want to make them.

What on earth is random about the Tee fees? Research tells me that £25 is cheap!

If you're that keen to play 52 weeks a a year then the cunning thing to do instead of paying £25 each time you play is to actually join the club for a considerably smaller amount and get your golf for free each time.

Of course. You can buy a £200 MTB and a £200 set of golf bats. You can't just gloss over the fact that the Tee fees and membership costs are usually bloody pricey when comparing the two. My local club charges £300 per year and £20/round. The all in cost is £1100/year!
Edit; plus an "entry fee" of £400! FFS!!!

If you're that keen to play 52 weeks a a year then the cunning thing to do instead of paying £25 each time you play is to actually join the club for a considerably smaller amount and get your golf for free each time.

+1.

and pick up a beautiful set of Hogan Apex irons 2nd hand for about £100, a decent putter for £60, and a couple of ping woods 2nd hand for £100 each maybe from ebay, and then its just golf balls and drinks to pay for.

Mtbing has the bike plus servicing changes (even if only for the shocks) plus wear and tear which can be a lot.

If you're going to get into arguments purely on a cost basis, then I'm sorry but here's the facts...

Both Mountain Biking and Golf are fairly expensive hobbies/passtimes as they go. Yes, you can do both on a shoestring, but play/ride once a week or more with mid range kit on a local course/trail centre, and everything starts to add up.

By contrast, road riding is MUCH cheaper to get into. Again, you can blow huge wads of cash on it if you want to (and plenty of people do!), but for your average joe who wants to get a few hours in each week, he will ride to and from his door (doesn't need a T5 or a Jag to transport it!) and road bikes are typically quite a bit cheaper to run on a £ per mile basis than an equivalent MTB.

Enjoy your hobby as you see fit, spend as little or as much as you want to to enjoy it. Probably the most fun I've had playing Golf was with a few mates at a local pitch and putt, so it needn't be expensive, but then again if I choose to spend money on the latest carbon wheels or XYZ driver that guarantees you will hit your drive another 10 yards, then why should you judge me? Those that spend the top dollars on the more expensive kit are funding the trickle down of technology after all...

Of course. You can buy a £200 MTB and a £200 set of golf bats. You can't just gloss over the fact that the Tee fees and membership costs are usually bloody pricey when comparing the two.

In performance terms though, a £200 set of clubs is probably equivalent to a £600 MTB. You can buy a set of Clubs for £70 new if you look around (I suggest you don't), which is probably the equivalent of a £200 Halfords special.

With Mountain Biking, the initial expense of purchasing good equipment is higher than that with Golf, but Golf has a higher variable cost (ie. green fees) in general, unless you're doing 500 mile round trips each weekend to ride your bike!

Even with a £600 MTB, it's still considerably cheaper than golfing! The entry fee nearly wipes that out and that's before you've swung or bought a bat!

The point you raise about a hobbyist MTBer not wanting a crap bike is of course quite right, but applies (perhaps even more so) to roadying. No weekly roady would be seen dead without a full rapha set after all? 😉

It's not 'Class War'.
It's about change.

The demographic shift has had a huge impact.

The manufacturers and media have frottered themselves into a frenzy in an attempt to part eager newbies from their cash.
This has lead to the current standargeddon, which has a greater impact on those with less disposable cash.
Cycling is disproportionately more expensive than it used to be, certainly if your not a serial changer or upgrader.

Also, people tend to mistrust those who value fashion over passion - those who pursue something because it's seen as the thing to do are always the butt of the joke - it's human nature to question the motivations of the fickle.

However, I like people and I like bikes.
It's great to see people enjoying themselves.
More people on the roads helps with acceptance and changes attitudes and perceptions.

There are downsides, shared access and all it implies, but we'll survive.
🙂

mboy - Member

Both Mountain Biking and Golf are fairly expensive hobbies/passtimes as they go.

they're not, really, they're just hobbies.

Take crochet, as an example. that's just some string and a (one!) stick, how basic can you get?

But get some nice hooks, and some nice wool, and a few patterns here and there, and some project bags, and some nice dividing folders, and it all adds up very quickly.

Gym fees can be upwards of £500/year. Want to go swimming too? now we're over a grand, a year.

Let's not even think about the money spent on guitars and amps and pedals etc.

I'm still getting my head around the criticism of rich folk in one expensive sport by comparing it to another rich folk activity, off piste skiing. Skiing used to be the preserve of the common man, but not any more...

Too many rich people everywhere!!! Damn them, and their wealth buying their privilege / access to the outdoors, which I also have to pay for, but it makes up more of my disposable income, which makes me resentful as they are not proper sports enthusiasts, but are just frivolously spending their money JUST TO GET IN MY WAY!!!

PS - OP you're either not skiing in the right places or not embracing all that skiing has to offer. Ski touring is where it's at... 😉

Cycling is disproportionately more expensive than it used to be

no it isn't. you've always been able to spend stupid money on bikes.

the difference is that the cheap ones now are really, really good.

Skiing used to be the preserve of the common man, but not any more...

WHAT?

Speaking as someone whose family growing up was not poor but still could not afford to go skiing, you are talking bolleaux.

Oh FFS Molgrips - you couldn't see sarcasm if it slapped you in the face!

EDIT - OK, bit harsh p'haps... I figured the tone of the post would make that clear. Guess not!

Even with a £600 MTB, it's still considerably cheaper than golfing! The entry fee nearly wipes that out and that's before you've swung or bought a bat!

What entry fee is this? Are you talking about a membership joining fee? Sure that applies to alot of private courses but not public ones. And nowadays with decline in memberships many clubs have scapped that cost, my local one for example.

You do realise you don't need to join a private club to play golf don't you? Just as its not obligatory to spunk 4k on a carbon Santa Cruz. You can golf on the cheap and you can mtb on the cheap, or you can make it as expensive as you like.

I'd suggest those that are members of private golf clubs aren't the same people who would buy a £600 entry level mtb and ride it until the death, so comparing the two costs in such a way is flawed.

As a keen club golfer up until a year or so ago, and a keen mountainbiker, I can tell you I have spent infinitely more on Biking than I ever did on my flash bats, priavte membership, and and daft golfing apparel.

What entry fee is this?

You do realise you don't need to join a private club to play golf don't you?

As a keen club golfer up until a year or so ago, and a keen mountainbiker, I can tell you I have spent infinitely more on Biking than I ever did on my flash bats, priavte membership, and and daft golfing apparel.

The point you raise about a hobbyist MTBer not wanting a crap bike is of course quite right, but applies (perhaps even more so) to roadying. No weekly roady would be seen dead without a full rapha set after all?

Haha. Not the case though sadly. There's plenty of Rapha wearing Jonny come lately's to Road riding, but they're the guys that refer to a pair of Dura-Ace C24's as their "winter wheels"... I know people like this, will ride a bike worth 3 times what my best bike is worth (and my best bike is really rather nice) through the winter without a thought for the cost.

The average roadie is however far more thrifty than the average MTBer, at least from where I'm standing (Bike shop owner) though. Possibly because road riding is far more acessible to your average family man, a 2-3hr ride once a week straight from the door and back requiring a lot less commitment than driving to a trail centre, getting flithy, driving home, cleaning the bike etc... There's always exceptions to the rule of course, and these are just one man's observations.

your average family man, a 2-3hr ride once a week straight from the door and back requiring a lot less commitment than driving to a trail centre, getting flithy, driving home, cleaning the bike etc

Is driving to trail centres really the average MTBer's experience?

Is driving to trail centres really the average MTBer's experience?

I don't think it's the average experience, but there is a significant number of riders who just ride in trail centres. Nowt wrong with that though

I reckon if you say that the average mtber on here spends 1.5k on a bike and keeps it for 2 years, over that period spends another £500 on bits (tyres, brake pads, other consumables). Then rides that bike twice a week that's £19 per ride.

Someone mentioned £15 a round to play golf earlier so if we did the same calcs with a £200 set of club (which from the golfers I know is a pretty cheap set of clubs)that works out as £16 per round of golf.

But the more you ride the bike the cheaper it becomes whereas it's the opposite for golf! sort of!!

Edit I've just read all that and have bored myself........Spend what you like if you can, just do it with a smile!!! 🙂

Is driving to trail centres really the average MTBer's experience?

wrecker - Member

Is driving to trail centres really the average MTBer's experience?

Unless you live in the shadow of some decent hills, you'll be driving somewhere!

^This.

I live a 5 mile ride from a country park where we usually have a midweek thrash. Epping Forest is a 30 minute drive away and the Surrey Hills 90 minutes. The Peak District or a trail centre usually requires at least a weekend away to make the journey worthwhile.

5 pages of discussion and we have ascertained that both pastimes involve driving! 😀

I have never put a bike in my car in over 40 years of riding...

🙁 Never done an uplift day? Been on a riding holiday/break with your riding buddies?
Where do you live kerley?

Hold on a mo, this thread has been very useful, you can ride your bike to the golf course.

I have never put a bike in my car in over 40 years of riding...

I guess varying your riding spots isn't for everyone.

Or is this one of those 'because I catch the train' or 'I use a mates car' type things?

I have never put a bike in my car in over 40 years of riding...

I've got a roof rack too 🙂

To the extent that some people can't just 'go for a ride', but have to measure everything and then compare themselves with everyone else, in the same way that golf seems obsessed with par and handicap rather than just going for a quick round, I think there's some similarity...

Either way though, who cares. So long as those who want to can go for a good old fashioned bike ride, then the ex-golfers can do what they like. The more the merrier overall...

Hi, I ride my bike on the local golf course. Have done since I got my first bike (grifter) 😳
Also skied on it, took it in turns to do the uplift in a non German SUV though 😆

wrecker - Member
Is driving to trail centres really the average MTBer's experience?

Unless you live in the shadow of some decent hills, you'll be driving somewhere!

I Like this thread!

never considered myself part of the elite before. As an Audi driving, Santa Cruz owning trail center user, being the subject of philxx's obvious envy might well give me ideas above my station.

I guess its not the done thing to have your driver do the uplifts? no thought not.

anyhow plebs, off to book a weeks skiing in St Moritz

🙂