[Closed] Has geometry slowed to perfection?

even if geometry had, marketing is accelerating to near escape velocity

I'd imagine buying a Ti frame is kinda going against future developments in geometry, as they're  so expensive,  you're really buying a bike for life (unless it cracks, which seems to be quite often). Just need to accept that in a few years, good chance everyone else will be riding something thats quite different to you.

I've never got my head round ti frames tbh, a steel frame will last as long and is often a quarter of the price.

Yet people spend considerably more on carbon full sus frames.

do they have the same dilemma?

but, yeah steel frame in this case is a third of the price...

and they often last longer 🤣

i think changes in geometry are a gradual, one step at a time process, rather the someone have a grand new design which will change everything.

The way i see it is, with the arrival of bigger wheels, (cynical invention in my mind, but be that as it may be) the big frame making brands said to shimano and SRAM if you can get rid of that front mech we can tuck that bigger rear wheel in a bit more, hey presto 1* drive trains, and a shorter wheel base.

With  bigger wheel out front we need to make the front a bit slacker and alter the trail etc, But if we do that then the the cockpit will be really cramped so we'll make the reach a bit longer to compensate....

plus the trend of wider bars need a shorter stem, even more reason the extend the frames reach to compensate.

Not saying modern geometry is not an improvement, but just one thing leads to another.

You're all right on steel vs titanium, but sometimes it's nice to buy something nice.

From an observational point of view people are doing some radical things that are quite out of the box.

Sometimes one of them clicks and it works and the mainstream gravitates towards that point but probably not to the extreme.

Meanwhile at no point does a bike ride worse than the day you bought it, your comparison and observation point will though.

I think shorter stems lead to wider bars rather than vice versa, there were people using 50mm stems back in the day- I had a tiny 14" Giant Boulder with a 50mm stem on it and it was great fun but then I was a huge dual slalom fashion victim! Frames are maybe a bit too long (for me) now though which is probably a good thing as I'll either be sticking with what I've got or buying second hand stuff.

Newer shape stuff is great though, there's no way I'd prefer to ride that Giant Boulder I had over the Switchback I've got now 😆

I think we oscillate towards perfection. We overshoot and come back a bit.

I like longer bikes but for the real world trail riding I do, I'm not sure the super long stuff is right.

I like that I now get more stand over for the reach I want though.

The entire point in getting a custom frame made is to have the geometry exactly how the rider wants it.
It doesn't matter what is currently popular. What matters is that it handles and fits how you want it to.

As for current geometry trends. I don't like any long low slack bikes.
I do like slack H/As but prefer a shorter front centre and short stays as I like to be able to pick up the front easily, I prefer a far lower BB than current LLS bikes have as it gives the shorter bike back some stability and corners better. Not liking long bikes has it's bonuses though as despite being 5'11" I now need to choose most brands  size small frames to get a bike that handles the way I want. This has the extra benefit of giving me a bike with a shorter seat tube giving more room for longer saddle drop and a stiffer lighter frame.

The longshot SolarisMAX has given my riding a real shot in the arm. I’m riding the Sherpa (in B+ mode) harder as a result.

wouldnt want a lower b/b on either as I’m experiencing too many pedal strikes (B+ Sherpa is the worst).

Also depends on the buyer's vanity...if last bike bought works perfectly for their riding, why change it? New colour, different brand, mates all have new bikes or have the latest toy, etc. can all impact the decision...sometimes it is done by the heart and not the head.

Historically we have had slack frames before (not mtb) and then it reverted to steeper. The flop is horrible on a climb.

The advantage of slack HAs is primarily to allow a telescopic fork to function properly and that tends to be around 64º in practical terms where the choice between binding and dive reaches an empirical balance.

We might see a return to steeper HAs If anyone manages to make a linkage fork with long links that are stiff enough not to compromise the handling.

The other advantage of slack HAs is the longer front centre, although a long front centre could also be done with steeper HA, but it would need a longer toptube for the same figure - that could get noodly with a conventionally tubed bike. In C/F or a hydroforming the much longer TTs would be quite possible.

For a rigid forked hardtail, a slack HA can mean that the fork has some vertical compliance, and so the ride can feel better, but with fatter tyres these days, this is not a pressing reason to go slack.

My money is on suspended bikes settling around the 64º mark, and hardtails bikes reverting to 70-71º if they are intended to have a rigid fork, or they are compromised for an optional telescopic fork, somewhere between 69-67º.

My personal preference, based on experimentation, for a rigid hardtail is even steeper and with a heap of trail, but I'm more of an offtrack rider so my preference is to optimise for the riding that takes the most time, ie the flat and climbs rather than DH.

Meanwhile at no point does a bike ride worse than the day you bought it, your comparison and observation point will though.

This. After riding a longer/slacker/bigger-wheeled  hardtail for a year my SC Blur XC with 26" tyres felt shit. Of course it hadn't suddenly reconfigured itself while hanging in the garage.

despite being 5’11” I now need to choose most brands  size small frames.

Hora, is that you?

despite being 5’11” I now need to choose most brands  size small frames.

I remember how much fun it was smashing knees on the bars at every opportunity!!

Slowly creeping into the bigger bike thing as I reckon I could have one one bigger

That'll explain your EWS result 😛

The last bike I bought was a 2018 small with 445mm reach (longer than the previous years medium). That's definitely not modern long but it certainly isn't short. There's absolutely no way your knees can touch the bars with your feet on the pedals.

That’ll explain your EWS result

Nah that would go down to the crashes in the slop/flood and running out of brake pads.

My hunch is that the geometry changes turmoil of the last five years or so are going to settle down soon - and that certain brands have already hit what will become the mainstream "sweet spot".

Shorter seat tubes and longer droppers mean we can choose the length of bike we want/need - so geex can size down to small and I can size up to large.

I'm not in a position to drop nearly £2k on a ti hardtail, but if I was the SodaMax would be a very safe bet from a geometry POV (for me).