[Closed] has CRC, planet x etc had their day?

CRC rarely the cheapest now. Hardly ever use them any more.

Evans? It's all about the French and Germans now, a quest for the cheapest ever...
Awaits some moves from the if manufacturers to sort out wider distribution and even pricing continent wide and more control on oem...

Evans pricing is better than it use to be, they price match and you can collect from a store which can be handy.

Alltricks and German sites still generally the cheapest though...

Evans are pretty competitive with the Germans, at least on the XT 11 speed stuff I looked at recently. Not OEM stuff from either.

all depends what you want to buy. I don't specifically buy from one shop. wiggle seems to be expensive for most things I'm purchased recently.

Mantel is the new player in town.. Had some great buys from there

Wiggle overtook CRC last year 😉

Evans saw a considerable drop in turnover and lower margin, like much of the bike industry

Planet X a different beast now, explicitly following the Sports Direct model of snapping up defunct heritage brands and using them to label up cheap imported kit. Hence you can buy the exact same frames with Planet X, On One, Holdsworth, Viner, Tomac etc branding.

Still get the odd warehouse full of bankrupt old stock that they clear out (I reckon those Carnac shoes I got a pair of and they're still selling are at least 10 years old), but not directly competing with the big boys and their steady supply of mainstream stuff.

CRC lost it's edge the same time they [s]screwed up[/s] upgraded their site, everyone's long sick of their permanent DFS-like sales and I reckon they stopped being people's go-to bargain supplier a while ago. Wiggle and CRC's edge is in combining free postage with free Collect+ returns encouraging speculative purchases - Planet X charge both ways unless you have a big basket, and I've just bought a CX skinsuit from Evans knowing I may be spending a few quid to send it back only because no one else had it in that size for that price. They're almost a mail order shop of last resort for me.

I get bored of searching on the wiggle site. Their web team could do a whole lot more to make it useable on a tablet.

I still buy a fair amount from CRC. Price wise they're much the same as the Germans for Shimano stuff now as are Merlin who I seem to be using more and more.

Tyres I tend to get from Germany for its reasons....Schwable and Conti ar still way cheaper from Bike Discount etc.

rcz are good for very low prices with their email discountsbut it's pot luck on what they have and are selling on. They aren't a crc or wiggle. I got my pikes off them for something like £315 but not seen them in since. They were selling dt Swiss forks for about £160 the other day though.

Halfords have improved massively. Good range online, to store next day and price match everyone.

Not used PX since they went over £50 for free shipping.

I've had loads of stuff from CRC recently. They seem to be cheap for the bits I'm after. That said I've had loads of stuff from Wiggle and Evans too. I haven't ordered any bike stuff from Germany. Mostly because I've had problems with other stuff from Germany. The return postage always puts me off.

Halfords have got better. They are still pricey, but every now and then I get a bargain. Plus I cycle past it every day so it's convienent.

I was looking at CRC for some sales bargains (drivetrains, lights). They sell a lot of different products, but loads of it is tat. I couldn't be fussed to look through it all and bought from elsewhere. PX seem to sell whatever CRC can't/won't bother selling.
Seems that I'm fussier nowadays

AFAIK German sites are competitve as they have a way of avoiding UK VAT.

I bought a gear change cable today for €2.50 from a real bike shoo, long may such things continue

Madison dealers can price match Shimano stuff if you ask and take in proof of the lower price.
They will even match the Germans and the likes of CRC.
They just don't advertise the fact they can do it.

The wiggle website has always been user unfriendly even compared to onone

Tbh I buy from wherever I can find stock these days, which seems to be a semi regular issue

Gave up with tat from PX a long time ago. CR still get a lot of my money, but their sales seem a bit pointless now. Wiggle don't seem to have much I need other than TA chainrings. Merlins are really good for sorting and delivering very quickly for me, but their sale prices seem more expensive now than Black Friday. I bought some tyres from them for £40 a pair on BF and are £46 a pair today. Have bought from the germans and were a lot cheaper than in the UK , so may sway a bit more that way for the future.

AFAIK German sites are competitve as they have a way of avoiding UK VAT.

I bought a gear change cable today for €2.50 from a real bike shoo, long may such things continue

I've been making a few purchases from Evans. Their prices are generally good, delivery is good and I can swap my Tesco vouchers at 2:1 so everything is immediately a better deal.

Mantel is the new player in town.. Had some great buys from there

Just used them to order a light and motion urban 800. Fair price and delivery included.

German shops can not avoid their own domestic Vat of 19% no matter where in Europe it is sold. Otherwise the country you import into would charge their Vat on it.

All the german sites sell with UK vat rate of 20% whereas it is only 19% in their domestic market, which is why you sometimes think there is a price hike to UK buyers. The reason they are cheap is because of the exchange rate. It was only 2 years ago when a Euro was worth 87 pence whereas for the past year it has been hovering around the 71 pence mark. That represents a 20% price drop for us 🙂

I tend to use Evans for the reasons above. They price match all the uk big hitters, less chance of the kit being not exactly as described e.g. Merlin and double tesco vouchers. They have never let me down so what's not to like?

As said above.. I use Evans a lot more these days as they price match and there evoucher scheme if you spend X amount is also good.

welshfarmer - Member

The reason they are cheap is because of the exchange rate.

Not just that; in fact probably mostly not that, because it also effects price pointing in the first place. Bottom line is different markets have different price structures via their local distribution networl. Schwalbe tyres frinstance wholesale at a lower price in Germany than they do here. Same as Santa Cruz in the states but local enough that we can realistically cross borders.

This, incidentally, is how you can tell CRC etc haven't had their day- and also why it doesn't really threaten them. If this imbalance ever becomes truly problematic it'll no longer be worth running price differential strategies so the manufacturers will change their price (fixing) strategies. But what proportion of UK buyers are actually shopping at bike-discount.de?

I still use Wiggle now and them, but mainly for smaller parts. HiBike and similar Euro shops seem to offer the same products at a good saving depending on exchange rate, but I also use PX sometimes also.

I wouldn't say CRC have had their day, but I use them a lot less these days.

Evans, now that there's one in Durham, I can conveniently collect.
They pricematch so it's a no-brainer, living where I do, for stuff that might need returning for whatever reason, or clothing that I may need to check for size.

I still use internet (CRC etc.) for stuff that can't fail, like the spokes and chain links I'm about to order, they fit through the letterbox so order and forget.

welshfarmer - Member
The reason they are cheap is because of the exchange rate.

Not just that; in fact probably mostly not that,

Exchange rate has a lot to do with it. Same with Thomann (music shop) that I have purchased quite a bit from.
When the £ was weak the prices were close to UK and not worth bothering with.

Not sure if this will change if we leave the EU (would we then pay import charges?)

I still use CRC and Wiggle and find both good on prices for the things I buy. I can usually find stuff cheaper (or at least the same) form eBay shops though.

i think it's more indicative of how certain suppliers have been screwing the vice on the big internet suppliers, both by tightening up their supply chains and threatening to restrict supply.

Of course, this is somewhere between 'questionable behaviour' and 'clearly in breach of' all sorts of anti competition and resale price maintenance laws, but, well, that's how the bike trade works...

Halfords have been pretty good for me.

Find the item, price match cheapest online then 10% off for BC membership.

Nice

No one supporting their LBS then?

I guess saving a couple of quid is more important than helping our local economy, or even national economy if you go shopping overseas.

No one supporting their LBS then?

I guess saving a couple of quid is more important than helping our local economy, or even national economy if you go shopping overseas.

There's an irony there eh? I wonder how many LBS owners support their local buisnesses.

There's an irony there eh? I wonder how many LBS owners support their local buisnesses

Mine do, and I support then where ever I can. A shop here is more worthwhile than the internet. A way that the lbs can compete is something I hope for, give them the same prices that the internet can get and it would be a game changer

CRC may not always be the cheapest but are usually very close and they have really good customer service.

You can't even call wiggle, which personally I find a bit arrogant so rarely give them my money.

my last 3 orders (Shimano road wheels, MTB seatpost/stem and MTB bars)have gone to Wiggle simply because they had the same stock as CRC but considerably cheaper on each item

shipping was quick (3 days) and no issues, found the experience very painless

I noticed they now have an App for IOS and Android, not used it yet but would be interested to see if it works well

The best thing about Wiggle and CRC is being able to browse sale products ranked by biggest discount. It's an oddly entertaining insight into a dark netherworld of stuff no-one actually wants to buy at full or even online discounted price.

I'm sure this isn't really their intention, but it beats actually buying anything. 😉

Ninfan has hit the nail on the head.

There seems to be an awful lot of identical pricing around on some items, ever see Schwalbe Magic Mary Super Gravity at anything less than a few pence under £50. There's lots more examples and none of them serve the end customer.

http://bikesy.co.uk/

Is good for finding the cheapest UK prices.

@sq225917

Probably due to not being profitable for the retailer if they price it any cheaper. It would serve the end customer even less if retailers decided to lose money and go out of business just to suit the Internet bargain hunters. The public seem to need educating as the the margins the end retailer has to play with. Companies exist to make money, not pamper to your whims.

Longtime lurker...

Cheers IRC, I'm one of the guys who put Bikesy together.
Glad you've found it useful, we're adding more retailers to it all the time so it should keep getting better and better.

And @sq225917

There seems to be an awful lot of identical pricing around on some items, ever see Schwalbe Magic Mary Super Gravity at anything less than a few pence under £50. There's lots more examples and none of them serve the end customer.

Do a search for them on Bikesy, you'll be surprised how much cheaper you can get them for some days...

The trouble with the LBS round here is their range. It is usually quite restrictive, if I've done some research on buying something and then go to the LBS 90% of the time they won't have it.

We have two new shops opened recently. One is mainly road based and has a reasonable range of Cannondale and Trek road bikes, a basic range of maintenance kit, gels etc... The clothing is mainly black, pink or hi viz yellow and twice the price you can get online.
The other shop is very much a specialist MTB shop, aiming at the high end/bespoke build market. But again have a very limited range of clothing, gear and maintenance kit. I understand this, it must be very expensive to stock a shop with a limited range let alone a wide range.

This is where the internet wins for those informed or willing to do their research. You can pretty much always find what you want and it would take less time than doing a special order at your LBS. I think CRC and PX/On-One will be fine long term, but the market is beginning to look more and more crowded.

(The MTB shop will probably get business from me for servicing though!)

ever see Schwalbe Magic Mary Super Gravity at anything less than a few pence under £50.

Merlin seem to price them lower, but as a result they're usually out of stock.

Just got some new 650b Marys for myself and a pal from Germany for £31 each, posted.

Schwalbe Magic Mary Super Gravity at anything less than a few pence under £50. There's lots more examples and none of them serve the end customer.

@hammerite

Have you tried either shop to see if they can get something in and at what price? Not aimed at you at all but a lot of people seem scared to ask/haggle with the lbs but I find they'd rather your custom and aren't offended if they can't match a price.

coomber - I have in the past yes. However, I know with most of the stuff I buy I can order it and have it delivered to home a few days later. With an LBS I'd need to go in, check to see if they can order it, place the order, wait for it (usually longer than a direct delivery) and then go and collect it.

It's a lot less convenient regardless of price.

I have in the past yes. However, I know with most of the stuff I buy I can order it and have it delivered to home a few days later. With an LBS I'd need to go in, check to see if they can order it, place the order, wait for it (usually longer than a direct delivery) and then go and collect it.

It's a lot less convenient regardless of price.

You are supporting your local bike shop though which isn't to be underestimated. If I had a LBS I'd want people in asking for price match rather than just ignoring me and walking past. At least that way I'd have the chance to build a good relationship with them that benefits both them for service and the local community by having a bike shop on their high street.

Whilst I can see the benefit of supporting a local business, LBS's don't usually 'make' anything. They're just a go-between you an the distributor. Yes it's a few wages, but it's not the same ripple effect you get with other businesses. An LBS is just an inefficient version of CRC, and the price difference is that inefficiency.

Not like buying pies from a local shop, that gets it meat from a local butcher who gets his from the local farm, who used the local Vet, who sends his kids to the local piano teacher who buys the pies, thus supporting the local economy.

And the convenience thing never stacked up, instant access to innertubes and gear cables aside, I can get a part from an online shop and it'll be here on Thursday. I can get it from an LBS, and even if they price match it'll be tagged onto the next order from that distributor in an indeterminate time frame, then a day or two to arrive, another few days to the shop to process the stock and phone me, etc. I'm still waiting from a call from my LBS for a set of seals I ordered for some forks I've since sold 2 years ago.

Have been a CRC customer since 2005. The main thing that keeps me going back is the choice. Wiggle have started matching them on price and Merlin have some good deals if you live on their website but neither of them (nor anyone else for that matter) has the variety.

If I want something different or non-mainstream CRC has it. And not just one or two there's a choice of different. Sadly the lbs has what it has and can always 'get' stuff but it's not the same.

There have also been some spectacular deals from Tweeks Evans and Winstanleys the last 12 months or so. Have often bought something for a crazy low price, looked back the next day and the price has gone back to normal. Not too sure what's going on there but by the time it's on a deals website or a PSA on a forum it's too late

Case in point the Magic Mary mentioned above - Vertstarsupergravityfolder £38.99

You are supporting your local bike shop though which isn't to be underestimated. If I had a LBS I'd want people in asking for price match rather than just ignoring me and walking past. At least that way I'd have the chance to build a good relationship with them that benefits both them for service and the local community by having a bike shop on their high street.

I appreciate that they employ people, but the way bike shops are revered on here is odd. Most are pretty badly run (look at the examples of people ordering stuff and never being called again). There are some good ones but many are pretty average. Others ignore the local riding scene too - I worked in a shop where there was quite a big local DH scene (they even ran a shop DH team) but they never really stocked any of the stuff that people wanted. No chainguides, small range of DH tyres etc. No matter what was said to the owners / managers, nothing changed.

I feel for them with regards to stock with the bike industry introducing new standards etc which is where the big online shops come in - the range is good, prices good and the stuff I want will be with me quickly. Personally I don't really need the workshop because over the years I've bought my own tools.

[quote=tonyja ]If I had a LBS I'd want people in asking for price match rather than just ignoring me and walking past. That gets old very quickly. Believe me.

No one supporting their LBS then?

I guess saving a couple of quid is more important than helping our local economy, or even national economy if you go shopping overseas.

For some reason this just made me think of Rover. People could have supported their national economy by buying them instead of better cars made by other people. Should they have done?

Agree that price and saving a couple of quid isn't everything, but I wouldn't use an LBS just to do them a favour any more than I'd have bought a Rover to help them out if better products/service were available elsewhere.

No one supporting their LBS then?

I haven't been a shop of any kind for best part of a decade. Why would you?

Guess I'm lucky with my LBS, I shouldnt assume they are all as good. Mine will get pretty much anything in next day, will usually price match and I can call them to get a price whilst browsing the interweb so have no down time. I've used them for 20 years plus so they like me. I'll pay extra at times for convenience of big items if there is a problem i.e. dont have to faff with returns, and because they take my spending into consideration for any repairs they do.

Wont be the same for all shops obviously.

I haven't been a shop of any kind for best part of a decade.

Quite so, I assume from your user name that you are in fact an elephant and not a shop. 8)

I've used CRC since about 2001. Up to about 2005/6 they were unsurpassed in prices, choice and delivery. IMO is been a steady slide into mediocrity since then. They no longer stand out amongst their competitors.

As they have diminished, I've sought alternatives, usually based on price and availability. I'm now a grazer of products across Europe - predominantly the Germans and French, but I buy from china and the US semi regularly too.

I have no nostalgia for LBSs. I learned early in my riding that most tried to sell me what they had rather than what I wanted, and, bar the need for specialist kit (300 psi nitrogen) or access to the warranty network, most of the spannering was at a lower, or at best equal stadard to what I could achieve with a bit of time and application myself.

I have similar feelings to 'the high Street' in general.

Very sad that people have had that experience with their LBS. Was it always like that from day one or as a kid did you used to lust after shop window bikes that you couldn't have even dreamt of in the early days of MTBing? Is it the same looking at a picture of a bike on the internet for a kid these days? Aren't well run shops the very window into our sport or are we all for letting them all close down and pulling up the ladder to make it harder for others newbies to get involved?
God, the irony, Tony from Bikesy advocating local bike shops on STW... 😉

I dont think that CRC etc have had their day. I know a few people in the industry who get parts from them because their retail price is lower than the importers trade price

Aren't well run shops the very window into our sport or are we all for letting them all close down and pulling up the ladder to make it harder for others newbies to get involved?

I think the days when shops were entry points into sports are long gone. In fact I reckon it's probably easier than ever for newbies to get involved now.

Very sad that people have had that experience with their LBS. Was it always like that from day one or as a kid did you used to lust after shop window bikes that you couldn't have even dreamt of in the early days of MTBing? Is it the same looking at a picture of a bike on the internet for a kid these days? Aren't well run shops the very window into our sport or are we all for letting them all close down and pulling up the ladder to make it harder for others newbies to get involved?
God, the irony, Tony from Bikesy advocating local bike shops on STW...

I think bike shops have changed - my LBS when I first started riding, Cycle care in High Wycombe used to be like an aladdin's cave of cool stuff and packed to the gunnels with drawers full of all those random little bits. I don't think modern shops are like this anymore.

Cycle care in High Wycombe

No one supporting their LBS then?

The other one moved out of town, and probably has lots of value added services, like regular rides and meetups. But it's out of town. So do I drive there, get the bus there, or go clickety click on the laptop and wait for a box to arrive 3 days later in the 24/7/365 self-serve parcel machine about 100 paces away from the office?

Hmmm. My last couple of CRC orders have been far,far slower to despatch than in the past, maybe because I've been using vouchers from a warranty return, dunno. Ordered a carbon seat post middle of last week, alloy one turned up today. First world problems eh? Tsk.

Was that Frances Thurmers (sp?), eccentric guy with a beard, shop?

Can't remember the chaps name and he didn't have a beard. He did get upset when I referred to his AC Cobra replica as a kit car though!

This was back in 97-99 when it was my LBS. We used to go in and drool over the Pace DH bike. It looked ace too.

The shop was pretty dark and dingey, but it felt ace in there. That's what a proper bike still is to me not the shiney concept stores.

Hmmm. My last couple of CRC orders have been far,far slower to despatch than in the past, maybe because I've been using vouchers from a warranty return, dunno. Ordered a carbon seat post middle of last week, alloy one turned up today. First world problems eh? Tsk.

I can't fault them still - ordered some cheapy Sombrio shoes Sunday night, dispatch email first thing Monday.

Was that Frances Thurmers (sp?), eccentric guy with a beard, shop?

he was great, a member of De Laune I think, he organised the South's craziest cyclocross on the Northdowns Way. Rolling start through town and a police escort. I think he ran a shop in one of the home counties at the time and was a real character. It's people like him that make (or made from the sounds of this thread) local bike shops great.

I used to really like planet X/on-one. Bikes and kit that fill a niche. Now it all seems a bit hit and miss. Clothing is dubious and the stock depends on what they got cheap and is unreliable. Wiggle I still like and CRC because of the BC discount code. If you are buying expensive stuff Europe works well.

Evans is improving - I like that you can deliver to the shop and instantly return anything. Great for clothing.

The thing that's put me of CRC in particular recently was the last few sales they've had as they've been pretty poor, yes they've had some good things in the sale but most of it was rubbish. How can £5 or £10 off something over £100 be a clearance item?

Their prices have also been steadily creeping up versus the competition on some items and their competitors have generally upped their game to compete.

I popped into my LBS earlier today they were selling a mum a decent first bike for her little lass, making sure it fitted the girl properly, making a fuss of her and generally making the world a better place - one new cyclist at a time.

Cheap parts are good, but... having a LBS is better.

Exactly!

I popped into my LBS earlier today they were selling a mum a decent first bike for her little lass, making sure it fitted the girl properly, making a fuss of her and generally making the world a better place - one new cyclist at a time.

I hate to use the word but..

BOOM!

Thanks for reeling us all right back for a reality check there. We often get so lost on the forums and end up nearly convincing ourselves that anyone can go out and buy the right bike for the little one as easy as buying a loaf of bread.

I went into my LBS and said I wanted a rear mud guard, they didn't have any, let alone the one I wanted , which was run of the mill. I went to another one to ask about an issue with my front hub, which raised eyebrows , as no one knew about spline hub and disc compatability. I went to another local one and bought a Thomson seatclamp and paid double what CR would sell me one. Felt like I was mugged.....So I have tried the LBS route and failed on most of the things I visited on. Sometimes you feel like they are selling what they want to, rather than what I actually would like to buy, which is why on line shopping gets rid of the middle man. Cant say I have bought much crap on line over the years. I know plenty of people who have bought bikes from 'decent' shops and they are totally the wrong size as well. One who recently is on his 4th 'bike fit' with a shop and he is still uncomfortable riding it and looks like he is. If you have a bike that fits and most manufacturers have data sheets for sizing , which helps gets things right on line buying.
That said, you must be more careful buying on line for the hassle of sending it back, although collect plus is easy when I have had to and warranty with Merlins was easy even if it cost me £3 to send it back, it was still a lot cheaper than buying it locally.

And that is why it becomes catch 22 for the lbs.
My good local one holds enough mechanical stuff of the right quality (xt/x9 and above) a good range of a couple of clothing brands for local conditions and bikes. Chuck in the small stuff like bar led lights and stuff like that and they seem to hit the spot. If it's not in they have enough product knowledge to point you in the right direction and will see what price they can do.

One thing I've seen with a lot of people is they are so much less used to interacting with retail people, almost treat shops like online if they can't see it leave. With stuff like the number of drive train options available if you want something like a x01 it xt 11 it's not an impulse buy.
Out here in Oz we can get most stuff within 3 days from local distribution. I wanted a new charge spoon and it's not sold here, took about 8 days to get here 🙁

Anyway unless somebody in tries a massive aggressive move to kill some competition the big guys will remain

What I have never understood is why there isn't a cooperative type of affair for LBS. The same way that Spar or Costcutter work. They would then have central buying power and be able to demand far better prices from the distributors and be able to compete with the online retailers. There are enough bikes shops around for it to work. It just seems that there are 100's of independent bikes shops not competing really with each other and not working together in anyway to either fight off the likes of CRC/Wiggle or Evans.

Totally agree with he comment that often it seems LBSs sell what they want to sell and not what the customer might want.

I know what the OP is getting at,CRC had my money for 6 months and never sent my item because it wasn't in stock,every time I phoned them they said it would be in in a couple of weeks,so 6 months down the line I got my money back,why did I leave it 6 months,well simple,I was seing how long they were willing to lie to me to keep my money.
As for LBS I sort of gave up a long time ago,I do have a shop I go to but it's 30 miles away but I know if I go there they will have what I want,but the others in the local area are all 15 miles away,so if I go that's £10 fuel and 2 hrs of my time,if they haven't got what I want I have to go back when they have it in,so that's something overpriced any way,I'm spending £20 on fuel and half a day of my time,when I could just go online,get what I want,go to work instead of driving around and wait for it to land on my doorstep,usually the next day.
So when an lbs tells me they can "get it in for me"
Well I can get it in for me aswell,faster and cheaper.

I think the problem lies with the fact that most of the people here who happen to stumble into a LBS are in fact "experts" and I would imagine this must really wind up bike shops. Having said that I am also quite sure what it is I want to buy.
I recently needed new pads for my guides and it seems no-one stocks them! I tried Evans and the guy openly told me he has never heard of them, and he has no knowledge of mountain bikes! I tried to explain the shape and he went off to the workshop and came back with 3 pads all different all wrong, and went of again to fetch back 3 more wrong types, when I suggested maybe I take a look at what you have, he told me I was not allowed in the workshop!
LBS's are there for certain buyers, and I bet they do not miss the tyre kickers who come in to fondle a reverb seatpost or argue over whether something is any good.

With most lbs I find they sell tat and top line gear,but sell nothing mid range,it must be hard for them to compete with the big online stores,I like seing what I'm buying,that's why I like going to lbs,and I think your right gummikuh,I bet they do get fed up of the "know it all" experts,I think these LBS v online store will always be a catch 22 argument.

Isn't this the time when CRC are MOST profitable.
i.e. they've done all the hard work, introduced their own brands, brought more brands into their own distributor (Hotlines), built up a loyal customer-base, invested in efficiency and are now cashing in?

People who search for the latest bargain from one of 10 shops are never going to be your best customers. CRC have become the default go-place online store for many.