[Closed] Has anyone tried/used a Nicolai G1 with a lighter build?

How light are you aiming for? The G1 frame is rather heavy.

My 29er G1 weighed in at about 34lbs when I first built it up with reserve carbon wheels, single ply tyres, X01 11sp drive train, other carbon bits, saddle with Ti rails, pedals with Ti axles etc. It weighs more now its rocking a more robust build.

I run a G13 for a similar mix.

Except with covid and a wee sprog I haven't had a bike park day for ages.

Pikes, Xt, Hope brakes, ebay's finest carbon wheels and its fine for all of the above.

I can't remember what it weighs. Lots with with xt trail pedals and an air shock. A lot more with a coil shock, saint pedals and heavy duty tires for Whistler.

It was Ace on the Jen ride-100 miles in Wales. It was ace for a couple of weeks in Whistler.

I've given up on light weight stuff. Its expensive and breaks. I bought some light weight hunt wheels for my hardtail. They broke. While they were fixed under warranty I bought some "much" heavier wheels. The difference was very little. I rode one day with the heavy wheels and the next with everything else the same and the lighter wheels. It made very little difference to the over all expericence of the day.

Whats going to hurt more 2 or 3 LB or breaking your light weight trail bike in a bike park?

my thinking would be along these lines-

how crazy are you going to get in the bike park? how smoothly do you ride?

or

speak to nicolai to see what they suggest

or (and this is what i’d probably do)

buy the bike you want to own and live with its shortcomings and it’s brilliance.

i have a murmur, that isn’t a light bike, but i do swap tyres fairly regularly to suit the situation.

Chris p's comments on this when I asked for a XC style bike with G1 geometry was to suggest I buy some XC wheels and tyres for my bike an go with that. It would save almost 2kg's off of my bike taking it to around 14.5kg. But mine is an XXL with Components chosen to survive my weight and lack of talent. My son's original Geometron in size S is about 13kg but towards the light weight side of things

Echoing what others have said... The G1 is not really a frame to start with for a lightweight build! However... For a big heavy bike, it's remarkably versatile.

I have a G15 with a pretty high end build, it comes in around 14.5kg with 2.4" tyres and one eye on weight saving (I'm still 90kg, so not gonna go silly light, but have splurged a few quid on some of the components in the Keith Bontrager "strong, light, cheap, pick two" equation)... I could probably save a further 200g off the wheels, 150 off the cranks, 100g off the saddle if I threw a LOT of money at it (I'm talking Newmen XA30 wheels, Cane Creek E-wings cranks here to get the kind of weight savings without sacrificing strength), but it'd cost me probably £2k (or £1500 even after I've sold on the existing components) to save 500g off the bike which just seems incredibly excessive!

FWIW, the G1 is 200g heavier size for size than the G15/16 apparently (heavier duty down tube and seat tube), and then you can add another 2-300g for the EXT Storia coil shock vs the Fox Float X2 on my G15 too...

Chris p’s comments on this when I asked for a XC style bike with G1 geometry was to suggest I buy some XC wheels and tyres for my bike an go with that. It would save almost 2kg’s off of my bike taking it to around 14.5kg.

It does make a difference for sure, but then so does a proper XC bike. Don't get me wrong, I know that it's the wheel and tyre weight that makes up for 80-90% of the difference in pace between my Geometron and my XC bike (a Rocky Mountain Element) when climbing, but there's a reason XC racers still run crazy light 100mm travel full sus bikes even if they now have dropper posts and slacker head angles than ever before... It's all in the legs anyway, and I'm sure Sam @ Geometron on his G1 would keep up with many of us on an eBike, so it's all relative!

Debating a frame change to a Nicolai Saturn 14 ST or G1 (both 27.5) for a mix of local trail riding (mostly typical hilly forest trails)

You might not like to hear it, but simply switching to 29er wheels will make a bigger difference to pace than you might like to admit, certainly if you're using the bike on milder terrain. If you're going down the G1 route, at least you can experiment with this easily. I've purchased a longer stroke shock for my G15 and a 27.5" rear wheel which should preserve the geometry and bump rear travel from 145mm to 162mm, if I fancy taking it somewhere for an uplift day or the like... Contemplating chucking a Rock Razor on my 29er rear for now though for a bit more speed on the mellower stuff.

Don't buy a Geometron for the weight. My 27.5 G16 is hefty (no idea on actual weight) but the riding position makes it a nice place to sit and pedal when you're going up and along. It climbs easier than much lighter plastic bikes with bigger wheels which I've used on demo days. When someone hands you an S-works Stumpjumper you expect it to fly up the hills but straight away you're back to sitting over the rear axle trying to keep the front wheel on the ground. Geometry trumps weight every time.

The only time I've backtracked on heavy parts is when I sold my Hope 35w rims and fat tyres. I don't know if it was just the weight but I really didn't enjoy the way they made the bike feel. I'm much happier on lighter, narrower rims with 2.4 tyres.

I am in the market for some faster tyres but I think that's all I'll change this year.

Thanks all for the replies - interesting to read. Not sure if its useful, but build would be fairly average - XY, Hopes, CB alloy wheels and Maxxis 2.4s, carbon bars... Nothing brittle, but also nothing heavy either. Call it a conscious choice to buy once, but also not add needless weight.

Two things I've taken note of - the G1 is heavy yes, but the geometry negates that. My old Helius AM (best "feeling" and fitting bike I've owned) was weighty, but it was usable and a joy to do any type of riding on. Long XC rides were made more fun and didn't feel taxing at all. Perhaps safe to assume the G1 experiences are similar?

The other thing is that no-one really talks about the Saturn 14 (ST or non-ST), is this because people just look past it to the G1?

@mboy the point on 29s, yes thats in the back of my mind, but I have been hesitant to go there. Still really enjoy the 27.5s and a nimble ride. Although know I could be proven wrong at any time.

Thanks again

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/anyone-ridden-the-mojo-nicolai-yet/ I had to double take the 50 page count :/ !

Came from a helius AC to a Geometron G16 in 29er with a fairly modest build, no carbon anywhere, hope fortus 26 with 2.35 tyres.

I loved the helius and it climbed well and descended a bit better but the G16 is better in all areas. Climbs better, loads more grip on the back end and no wandering front end.

Composed and stable descending, doesn't get hung up in tight knacky tech just needs a bit more muscle and a bit of thought to body position to get through tight slow corners.

I'm a couple of months into riding it and still tweaking the shock setup etc but no regrets. It's my first 29er too and not looked back.

How much clearance do you have on your G16 with a 29er wheel in? I've thought about trying it with mine but not sure if they fit yet.

Loads of clearance, running a minion dhr2. My frames the generation with the 83mm BB shell (2018 model) not sure if this has any bearing on the way the back end is designed for running 29

@mboy the point on 29s, yes thats in the back of my mind, but I have been hesitant to go there. Still really enjoy the 27.5s and a nimble ride. Although know I could be proven wrong at any time.

And you're buying a Geometron...? 😂

Sorry... Does not compute!

A friend who was die hard 26" for ages, wouldn't give up his 27.5" wheels for love nor money, demoed a G1 recently and tried all setups (27.5, mullet, full 29er)...

He know owns a G1 with 29er wheels both ends and is busy eating his words!

Try one before you buy... And try different wheel sizes. I assure you you'd end up with at least a 29er front wheel if not both. Even CP himself, who was famous for his stance on 29er wheels, has eaten humble pie and runs a 29er up front at all times now.

The only time I’ve backtracked on heavy parts is when I sold my Hope 35w rims and fat tyres. I don’t know if it was just the weight but I really didn’t enjoy the way they made the bike feel. I’m much happier on lighter, narrower rims with 2.4 tyres.

35mm internal width rims is the single easiest way to ruin the ride of a bike IMO. OK, so a 2.8" tyre kinda mandates them, but 2.8's ruin the ride too IMO. Got 2.6's on my eBike on 30mm internal rims, that's about optimal I reckon for an eBike, and still run 2.35/2.4 on a normal trail bike with 25-30mm internal width rims.

The super wide rim fad from a few years ago is thankfully dying off. I've seen so many bikes out there with 35mm internal rims with normal 2.3-2.4" tyres fitted with square tyre profiles that mean the bike could almost stand up on its own, and riders complaining they find their bike hard to turn oddly enough!

How much clearance do you have on your G16 with a 29er wheel in? I’ve thought about trying it with mine but not sure if they fit yet.

Best bet is to give the Geometron guys a shout... Some model year G16's won't fit 29er wheels apparently, some will. I can't remember what's what, but they will be able to help out.

The other thing is that no-one really talks about the Saturn 14 (ST or non-ST), is this because people just look past it to the G1?

Again, have a chat with the Geometron guys... Don't get me wrong, the Saturn 14 looks great, I just thing personally that with that kind of weight and geometry, you might as well have the travel too... Or alternatively, look for a 2nd hand G15 frame (like mine), or possibly even a G16. If you want shorter travel, it's relatively easy to restrict the stroke length of a longer shock to achieve that, whereas in most cases increasing travel should you wish to, is much harder.

Sharki.
I think a 29 will fit in any G16 that has the mutators on the chainstays.
The previous gen with a bush at the chainsay/seatstay won't fit a 29.

OP.
I'd be looking for a G13 to get what you want out of it.
G13 and G1 owner here.

I did toy with the idea of selling mine a few months ago but it's got a tiny dent on the seat tube which annoyingly kind of kills the resale value even though it has no negative effect on the bike.

I think I'd rather ditch the RC2 fork which was never that impressive and switch to 29's as an experiment. When I sprung the cash for the G16 I still hadn't ridden a 29er that I liked so went full 27.5. Ideally I could have 2 sets of wheels in different sizes or try a mullet set up. One for mincing around the endless bridelways of the Peak and one for uplifts, bikepark and Alp stuff.

I don't have a recent picture but this is my frame. Think I've had it almost 4 years.

A friend who was die hard 26″ for ages, wouldn’t give up his 27.5″ wheels for love nor money, demoed a G1 recently and tried all setups (27.5, mullet, full 29er)…
He know owns a G1 with 29er wheels both ends and is busy eating his words!

Yes I know its a familiar story - every 29er I've tried so far didn't impress and I've been happy back with the smaller wheels. Appreciate it's not as trivial as that though.

Don’t get me wrong, the Saturn 14 looks great, I just thing personally that with that kind of weight and geometry, you might as well have the travel too… Or alternatively, look for a 2nd hand G15 frame (like mine), or possibly even a G16.

Don't often see 2nd hand frames for sale - what is the price range to expect for a G13/15/16?

OP.
I’d be looking for a G13 to get what you want out of it.
G13 and G1 owner here.

Looks like the G13 tops fork travel at 140?

Contemplating chucking a Rock Razor on my 29er rear for now though for a bit more speed on the mellower stuff.

Have you tried a Rekon for the rear?

I think a demo day is the only way to narrow down some decisions 🙂

Got a 150 36 on the G13 that works great with the 130 rear.

Got a 150 36 on the G13 that works great with the 130 rear.

That sounds good. Assume Nicolai said its fine to run 150, or even 160?

Paul at Geometron said OK for either but works better at 150.

Appreciate it’s not as trivial as that though.

It isn't as trivial as that for sure. Bike geometry will make far more of a difference. The wheel size debate has been done ad infinitum online, all the positives about bigger wheels still stand, and arguably modern longer/lower/slacker minimises the negative points of a bigger wheel too. The only concession I will make personally is that if you're having a hard time getting a LLS 29er to turn, then a 27.5" rear wheel in combination with a 29er up front does bring a little agility back to the change of direction, without a detrimental effect on stability. The only downsides come from reducing the rolling speed and the smaller wheel being more likely to hang up on the bumps than the larger one.

I’d be looking for a G13 to get what you want out of it.

Not sure why, but I forgot about the G13... Am I right you can still long shock these for circa 145mm rear travel?

Don’t often see 2nd hand frames for sale – what is the price range to expect for a G13/15/16?

Anywhere from £1k+ depending on condition I'd say. Cheapest 2nd hand Geometron frames I've seen were still very much rideable but with a little cosmetic damage perhaps for around the £1k mark. I've seen a couple of 2nd hand G1's already now go for over £2k still. My G15 is a 2018 model, I paid £1500 for it including X2 shock and a Bikeyoke dropper post (and spare bearings, hanger etc.) in 2020, which seemed to be about the going rate.

Have you tried a Rekon for the rear?

I work for the competition, so no...

I think a demo day is the only way to narrow down some decisions

Get it booked... And go in with an open mind, prepared to try different setups 👍🏻

I was also anti-29er for a long time - but i'm also 6ft 4"

Have bought and sold 3 rigid 29er frames because i couldn't get on with them

Invested in a Orange Stage 6 a few years ago and could never make it work. Killed my confidence downhill

Tested a Geometron G1 with 29" wheels 2 months ago

Now a very happy owner of a G1 and its the best fitting bike i've ever had and has an amazing combination of climbing & descending ability

It weighs about 36lbs. I might put some lighter tyres on it for messing around locally though

Thanks for the into/advice. More than convinced to get a few demos - happy to try any combination. What works, usually just works.

Going back to the original question... Given its near impossible to test a Saturn 14 ST prior to purchase - I'll try a G1 first.

Aside of the try/buy experience and the configuration of the bike (eg suspension setup, mutators) - are there any construction/parts differences between a Nicolai G1 and a Geometron G1?

I'd imagine that they are identical, as they will both come of the same production line

I'm not sure of the price difference between going to Nicolai or Geometron, but I would vouch for the customer service from the guys at Geometron and the bike set up day which they offer with the bike or frame purchase

I would vouch for the customer service from the guys at Geometron and the bike set up day which they offer with the bike or frame purchase

Yes that has very high universal praise from what I can see

The G1s from Nicolai and Geometron are identical. Previous models did have some slight differences.

My G1 is 35lbs with proper wheels and tyres
-XTR
-Hope Pro 4, 481 front, 471 rear
-Exo+ tyres
-Lyriks
-29er front and rear

Recently run it with the wheels off my smuggler, shaves around 3lbs off the build, makes the bike fly along flat xc trails.

Anything wider than a 30mm rim ruins the shape of tyres, squares them off too much, plus the wheels end up being very stiff. 30mm front, 25mm rear for me.

30mm front, 25mm rear for me.

Did you try 30mm at the back previously?