[Closed] Hardtail vs full suspension riding technique

Fire road climbing will be slower, techy climbing will be quicker, it's far easier to pop off stuff once you get the hang of it as well. Lots of folk talk about more potential for pedal strikes, I never really noticed tbh, but I understand the reasoning.

I'll never go back, so much more fun!.

Personally I find technical climbs harder but I use a lot of hops and find the suspension makes these harder.

I don’t think it’s all that different, the fundamentals are the same. The big change is that it takes longer to preload the bike when pumping or jumping and that the suspension absorbs force so you have to push harder. The longer the travel and the softer the suspension the sooner and harder you have to push.

And then when you land or hit rough stuff the rear suspension means that you don’t need to be as loose and absorbing through your legs.

No change in technique, just the timing of hops and jumps and mentioned above. Otherwise you'll just find that some lines open up to you that were previously closed (being a hardtail, probably because of likely punctures)

Just plough through the gnaar without having to pick a line. I fink that's it 😀

rather than choosing lines you can just ride over stuff.

Virtually all climbing will need to be seated - I think that remedy has a 160mm Lyrik (?) and getting out of the saddle will result in a reasonable amount of po-going. I would assume the rear shock has a lock out or pedal platform but it’s still more efficient seated.

As above, timing of hops and jumps will change a bit and you’ll have to exaggerate some of your techniques more - with my full suss (170mmf/160mm rear) you have to work harder to manual it or get as much height on hops and stuff.

I find tech climbs probably are easier on the full suss - although that’s the place where you may find you get a few more pedal strikes. Other than that everything will just be faster and smoother and you’ll find you can get away with lines through stuff that would absolutely punish you on a hardtail.

The fastest line can be a nice arc across the corner/trail with less regard for the surface rather than having to aproximate a racing line stringing together the smooth bits.

Also, where you might have leant forward on shallower but rough bits to unweight the rear wheel you no longer have to. Just go faster and lean back instead as now it's the front that will eventually throw you off!

surely you should still keep the front weighted and not lean back. You do not need to use your legs as shock absorbers so much so they will not tire as much. Still keep good technique though and keep your hardtail for a reference point of good technique and for some contrast on less demanding trails.

Full sus just sit there and grind for most of the time , certainly better for longer rides. Much better on steep technical climbs but slower than a hardtail on the smoother stuff.
The Specialized Chisel is one bike that crosses the line somewhat. Its one very comfy and quick bike, you almost forget you are riding a hardtail. Fantastic frame but XC only.

rather than choosing lines you can just ride over stuff.

thanks for the translation 🙂

didn't see your post DezB. Same thing.

Also, where you might have leant forward on shallower but rough bits to unweight the rear wheel you no longer have to. Just go faster and lean back instead as now it’s the front that will eventually throw you off!

Not this - with bigger travel bikes that have slack angles you need to keep the front weighted to get the bike to turn in - I tend to ride my fs bike more aggressively to get the best out of it. And a 160mm Lyrik isn’t just going to throw you off either.....

So fireroads are obvious ... line choice can be different, back brake works better etc. I found going the other way fun due to getting lazy. After building the HT I took it down the road and dropped off a tiny kerb... taught me how lazy I’d become. Not really an issue now though.

I was thinking more strightlines than cornering. I think of it as a hardtail you get as much weight on the front as you dare, on a fs you get as much weight on the front as you need.

Works for me anyway.

Depends on the bike really but I’ve raced XC on both full sus and hardtail. I’d pick the full sus every day over a hardtail. Easier on techy climbs but the biggest benefit is when your fatigued and can stay sat down over the rough stuff. On a hardtail you’d be stood up which is more fatiguing.

Oh and braking with the rear wheel on a full sus actually does something.

“Virtually all climbing will need to be seated”

I don’t find that at all, I stand just as much on full-sus bikes as on hardtails (which is a lot!)

I don’t think the body position and fore-aft weighting is any different either - it changes with bike geometry for sure but my full-sus, and now my e-full-sus and my non-e hardtail are all similar in geometry at sag (~65 deg head angle, ~455mm reach, ~1200mm wheelbase, ~290mm BB height).

I don’t find that at all,

Nope, me neither mate.

Cheats, the lot of ye! 😆

😂🤣

I have just built up a hard tail because of this, I realised my riding skills have diminished due to riding a FS for the last 10years!

I did precisely the same as you, chrisbirrel, back in March. That is, bought a Remedy 8 after having only a hardtail for many years!

It's been a revelation for me. I bought it mainly for trail centre riding - which it's really making me enjoy a lot more.

Agree with the comments on climbing too. I've always liked quite technical rocky ascents and descents. The FS just makes them that bit more do-able: still need to pick a decent line, but more often than not, ploughing on with a bit more low speed power and I just seem to get through/over things that would have had me off on the hardtail.

To my surprise though, I've found I also occasionally enjoy taking it out on my week night bridleway pootles - just for a change.

What I'm really still not sold on though, is the wide bars. Even after four months, they still feel too wide to me.

Other than that it's an awesome bike.

And you won't need a bell - the hub is so loud everyone will hear you coming a mile off!

What I’m really still not sold on though, is the wide bars. Even after four months, they still feel too wide to me.

How wide is your bar? I find if I ride a narrow one now it feels odd and I don’t like it much - but you can go too wide compared to your body size.

Both bike have got 780mm bars, but an 800mm feels too wide for me. I had 2 hire bikes a few weeks ago and one felt really narrow and lacking in control - I looked it up and it was 740mm wide. The other felt much better (and to be fair the whole bike had better geometry) and when I looked it up that was 780mm. So I guess I’ve found the size I like!

Edit - you could probably trim your bar down - just take 10mm off each end maybe.

I liked the wide bars, being about 6'4" I have a big wingspan and wide bars feel good to me. It seems strange that most manufacturers change reach, stack, standover, crank length, chainstay length and front centre between sizes but use the same bars across them all.

“It seems strange that most manufacturers change reach, stack, standover, crank length, chainstay length and front centre between sizes but use the same bars across them all”

If only! Very few manufacturers change chainstay length between sizes and the choice of crank lengths is laughably small, at most 165-180mm which is equivalent to sizing to fit people from 165-180cm tall, ie 5’5” to 5’11”. But the reality is you might only see a 5mm difference in crank length between an XS and an XL on a complete bike.

rather than choosing lines you can just ride over stuff.

This isn't true. You still choose lines, you just choose different ones.

Re the OP - I think you need to move your body around more, especially on a longer travel FS. I find when riding a hardtail that a good technique is 'unweighting' the bike over rough bits - almost like jumping but not necessarily leaving the ground. I do the same thing on an FS, but to get that little pop to un-weight requires more exaggerated movements because the suspension absorbs small ones. Basically you bounce into the travel then let the rebound pop you back up a little bit.

I get my weight back when faced with really rough sections - generally the front has the most work to do so if I get less weight on the front I can hit stuff faster.

This isn’t true. You still choose lines, you just choose different ones.

100% Molly, it's an oft quoted myth from the anti FS brigade.

Hopefully, (some of) you saw that my version of this was in jest. 😉

Keep your hardtail as your local loops may be a bit dull on a full-sus (plus you'll have a spare bike when the suspension is in for service or you have pivot bolts all over your garage floor). Also don't get lazy and just start ploughing through stuff - keep the finesse you learned through riding a hardtail over rather than through the rough stuff.

I shall certainly be keeping the hardtail (and the fatbike and the hybrid), it's great for cross country riding and certainly makes easy trails exciting. The Remedy will just be used for trail center visits, I'll be the bloke rolling slowly down blues and reds on a ridiculously over-specified bike (most of the gear and not much of an idea).

It's a full sus, you can adjust the rear shock to get it how you like it to begin, if you want it more hardtail'ish, then firm up the rear shock, it won't give you the benefits on low compression stuff, but it'll still have the high compression when you come down the hill.

Just a thought, as it allows you to progress your riding technique little by little if you wanted to, whereas full sus to hardtail doesn't.

“It’s a full sus, you can adjust the rear shock to get it how you like it to begin, if you want it more hardtail’ish, then firm up the rear shock”

You can do that with the damping but if you run the shock with too much air then you’ll mess the geometry as the back end won’t sag as designed.

How wide is your bar?

Its a 780 wide bar and my other bike (Scott Scale 750) has I think only a 700 wide bar!

I get the point of a wider bar, but I think 780's just too wide for me. I'm quite narrow myself, and it just feels like its holding my arms unnaturally wide.

I might take the suggestion a lop a bit off each end. Not to take it down by 80mm, but maybe 10 or so off each end.

I was actually thinking of simply moving my levers and grips in a bit first (without chopping the bar ends off) to see what width works before theres no turning back.

I got my first dually less than a year ago, intentionally to try and smooth out some of the rougher stuff. My only real criticisms have been the climbing ability and the extra maintenance.
Weight difference aside (Carbon Highball HT vs Carbon Kona FS) I absolutely found it harder to climb rocky, rooty, slippy gravel, technical tracks. Standing up was less efficient, though not impossible. I spent some time with a shockwiz to dial the suspension in nicely - that worked great for downhill but didn't make too much difference to the rear (which i normally locked out for climbs).
So i'm selling up and getting a SolarisMAX instead.

Aside from the black runs and the really jumpy blue trails the HT suits me and my riding best. YMMV of course - and if you're aiming primarily for the bike park stuff I reckon you'll have an absolute hoot 🙂

I read somewhere to measure bars based on your elbow span (ie armspan minus forearms). That could give you a good idea and should mean you're not loading up your wrists at uncomfortable angles. Maybe give that a whirl when you move the grips?

Mine happens to be exactly 780mm, and i'm fairly big, so you might well benefit from narrower bars.