[Closed] Hardtail eBikes

If you’re bothered about long term ownership just be aware that Bosch, brose etc motors are being rebuilt/serviced by 3rd party specialists once out of warranty, shimano motors aren’t (*to my knowledge).

Yes, me and OH have just nailed a couple of hardtails together using Tongsheng mid drive kits.

I’ve got a Focus Jarifa, Bosch motor. It’s a nice comfortable bike for the type of riding I do, mix of road and trail. I have a friend with a road bike so I do 35-40 miles with a bunch of roadies every Sunday. Otherwise it’s disused railway lines type of stuff.

Bosch gen 4 motor is really excellent. I was in my LBS this week and he tells me he has not had a single Bosch motor in for repair since the gen 4 came out and that Bosch themselves reported very few warranty repairs. Make of that what you will. Plenty of people will tell you they are rubbish and prone to failure but I get the feeling that if you jetwash it then you are going to end up being one of those complaining it’s broken. All I can say is mine’s been fine in the 18 months I’ve had it… (obviously I’ve jinxed it now though! )

Good info cheers.

Only issue now, just been in lbs and they have a Levo SL expert under £4k! No. I’m not tempted!

I’ve never tried an e-hardtail but as someone who swaps between a Levo and a normal hardtail (with pretty similar builds and geometry) I’m doubtful that adding that much mass to a frame with no rear suspension will work well for more exciting MTBing.

However, it would be awesome (from a cost, simplicity and joy of hardtail perspective) if it wasn’t an issue so I’d definitely want to test one to see if such a heavy frame is viable on a hardtail for more gnarly riding.

I have had a Virus e-Sentier for over three years with no problems ( shouldn't have said that , I know ). It is surprisingly capable off road on normal bridleway stuff but is still fun at trail centres .

(replying to chiefgroove’s hardtail points)
Yeah, that was one of my doubts - watched a few videos on youtube, made me think it’s not too much of an issue. But totally agree that the joy of a hardtail is usually the lightness and the simplicity. Plus a lot of e-hardtails (eg. Cannondale) seem to be specced with duff forks. Not ideal. Have to admit a demo would be preferable first. Maybe I could hire one…

I was in my LBS this week and he tells me he has not had a single Bosch motor in for repair since the gen 4 came out and that Bosch themselves reported very few warranty repairs. Make of that what you will. Plenty of people will tell you they are rubbish and prone to failure

Hmmm,I have the Bosch gen 4 ,and I'm on my second motor, Bosch replaced the first under warranty, mine was never jet washed. I'm not the only one who's had replacement Bosch motors.

I suspect that they actually are one of the most reliable motors though.

I’ve got a bosch Trek FS as my main bike but for commuting I’ve got a turbo Levo HT. One of the cheapest HT bikes and slightly less power than the bosch but due to being lighter and on faster rolling tyres it’s just as quick. Standard forks are rubbish and I swapped mine out but I’d recommend it.

There’s a Trek Powerfly 7 HT for sale on the Trek Powerfly, Rail and E-Caliber group. Looks pretty tidy.

Like this; https://www.cyclesuk.com/bikes/electric-bikes/2020-trek-powerfly-7-electric-hardtail-mountain-bike-rage-red__182241

A B-Plus rear tyre on a 45mm rim will help. 29" front perhaps. Or B-Plus F+R. I wouldn't be too keen standard 2.3" tyres unless it was for very light off-road use.
Plenty of us would ride a std 29er HT loaded up with about the same weight as an e bike motor and battery add so it's not a deal-breaker, it's just a bit clunky at speed over bumps without the added tyre volume.

Lot of browsing of ebike hardtails reveals something interesting, unless I’m not looking at the right models - most are specced with cruddy low end forks. Even £3.5k bikes! and they seem to be max 120mm travel, like they aren’t “serious” (or maybe modern? ) mountain bikes. Definitely can’t find anything like the kind of hardtail I’d ride.
Maybe the Specialized 150mm travel full sus for nearly £5k is my best option and I’ll commute on that for a while!

“ Maybe the Specialized 150mm travel full sus for nearly £5k is my best option and I’ll commute on that for a while!”

I’ve been commuting on a base model Levo for over 3 years now. I had my LBS upgrade the fork to a Lyrik, brakes to Hope V4s and add a dropper when I got it from them. It replaced my full-sus for proper MTBing too. It’s a lot of fun! Thinking about it now, almost everything has been upgraded over that time period but it gets quite a lot of use.

Pump the tyres up to 30psi and it pedals along quite happily on tarmac beyond the 15.5mph motor cut-out and then the motor helps with hills and headwinds. Drop the pressures for actual MTBing but the high commuting pressures are fine for non-tech off-road bits and jumps etc.

Definitely an option.. cheers.
Have now found what looks like a decent hardtail - the Kinesis Rise.
Might have to go visit them.

I'd love a kinesis rise HT. It's a Forza so not as powerful as a full fat motor but would be great I recon. I can't see full power motors being much use on a ht. I hardly use boost ever on my full fat full suss eeb. And trail is tuned to the lowest setting it can be.

I'm almost in the process of ordering a Rise... only problem (there's always something!!) they size by Reach and I have no idea what reach I want! My bikes are not really up to date geometry, the nearest is a 27.5, so that doesn't help at all. Anguish.

My wife has a cube reaction, 2015 model, i think,
We made a few changes, went from 9-10spd, changed contact points to suit, better forks.
I sort of agree with cheifgrroveguru to an extent, but the flip side is that it’s still being ridden, and it can do everything, I’ve toured on it, commuted on it, went shopping on it etc. It is a bosch motor, never had any issues at all.

How tall are you desperate.
had a rise was a great bike pretty bang on geometry wise, have since gone full fat Lego so not felt the need to ride it so a mate is buying mine.
also the fact you can’t just ride it as a bike is good if battery runs out or you buy the optional  filler box for the down tube is very handy zero drag from the bottom bracket unit as the motor comes out with the battery etc.

had a rise was a great bike pretty bang on geometry wise, have since gone full fat Lego

batman11 earlier...

I love my hardtails, but I just couldn't imagine it being that much fun chucking about an eeb version with all the associated weight.

That Lego is way to slim

batman11
How tall are you desperate

I'm 5'10 (178cm). L2 is my current thinking. Thanks for assistance with this!

if you want to ride it like a real mtb i’d avoid a hard tail and buy once.
My mate has one and it’s fine on smooth stuff but once the going gets a bit rough i leave him for dead on my whyte E160 and have to stop and wait while he catches up.

Here's the thing highpeakrider - truth be told, I can't admit to myself that I'm set to be an eBiker. I know, I know, I'm sorry folks! but it's a massive mental issue for me to overcome! My heart is ****ed, my right leg is ****ed, but I can't convince myself that I need to take that step. So I'm easing my way over the line. I think the Rise is ideal for this.

They are great once you get used to them and allow you to exercise in your limits if you have an injury.

I’ve had once disc removed, i also have one pressing into my leg nerve which means my knee feels dead ish, but i also can’t put a lot of pressure though it or my thigh goes into spasm, mine lets me continue riding, i’d be lost without it.

L3 buddy all the way.

6.4 here and I’m top end of the l4

so your definitely L3.

i’d be lost without it.

Yeah, I really do appreciate why folk ride them - even if it is just because they are more fun!

Thanks batman11, really appreciate the guidance! I read STW Andy's review and it suggested the L3, but the actual numbers are confusing. I shall ring Upgrade tomorrow 😀

I think one of the problems is what exactly you get for your money. A £3500-£4000 bike is effectively the same kit on a £1000-£1500 non electric.

A way around it is to look at the kit you have on other bikes, pick the cheapest option and swop it around.

I was discussing on an EMTB forum poster the comparisons between the bike he'd just bought, The Scott strike eride, and my own Scott genius eride, about how the geometry was exactly the same on both, with the only difference he had 140mm F&R and I'd 160/150mm.

He was in disagreement until i posted up both geometry lists and he could see every single one of them was exactly the same.

So that would be my advice to you. Pick the cheapest option of the frame you like, compare the geometry sections, so you are sure that its the same but lower end spec, then buy and swop everything you have on your good bike, selling the new bits from it on ebay or somewhere. Sure you wont make a huge amount, but its a clever way of spending and utilizing the funds and parts you do have.

That is a good call, and I have considered it - again, trouble is all my best kit is on a 27.5 bike and I want a 29 ebike 🙂 I'm sure there will be some transfer of parts though.

The thing with modern geometry is most focus on the reach number but seem to not look at the seat angle number.
you said your coming from an older bike which likely would have a slack angle 70odd degree while the rise is around 75 from memory so that will push you forward a fair bit while also putting you right over those cranks.
another thing to note is upgrade only warranty the frame not the motor so if you do buy one make sure you get it from a decent shop that can help with any issues with that side of thing.
other wise it’s gonna be you plugging it in the old computer and running diagnostics your self.
that was the only real annoying thing for me! have to say.
Mainly because I only have a tablet and no computer.

You could just DIY an existing hard tail eg a friend has done that using the Bafang kit.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51908192862_ab65da805d.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51908192862_ab65da805d.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2n5X4hs ]Bafang ebike conversion[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

I got my son/OH (different people, BTW..) a Trek powerfly 5 woman's HT...
I immediately stuck new forks on it... however the RS forks it came with were actually OK, I just wanted beefier forks (35mm SR suntours now).

I can deffo see why a FS E bike is better given the weight of the motor etc, but for my target audience I was happy wiht the simpler and cheaper HT.
I've got wide rims and a rimpact in there, and it's fab!

If it were for a 'proper' MTB rider, wanting to hit a trail centre etc, i'd stump up the extra cash for a FS TBH

DrP

A Rise Pro in size L3 has been ordered. 😲

Yes, DrP me too, [i]If it were for a ‘proper’[/i] E-[i]MTB rider[/i] 🙂

Oh, and thanks to all for the suggestions and input, really helped with the decision 😀

You'll love it! I picked up my six year old son from school today on mine, he was sent home because he was being sick (he's absolutely fine now so I think he'd just been running around too much) - he likes to perch on it whilst I wheel it home with walk mode entertaining him as it whirrs along.

Ebikes are just a lot of fun - whether you're totally fit and healthy or not!

Don't think of yourself as an ebiker - you're just a human who enjoys bikes of all sorts.

That is a good call, and I have considered it – again, trouble is all my best kit is on a 27.5 bike and I want a 29 ebike

It may be the case you need to buy a fork anyway, one of the problems with ebikes is the level of kit under the £5k mark, and certainly at the £3k mark. But as the back wheel can take the brunt of things maybe a mullet. All the rage I heard.

I can only wish you the best.

Joining a specific Emtb forum would be beneficial, this lot are mostly non e's, and at least there there's more info on hardtails.

I've my own thoughts about motors. Bosch is the one I have, Yamaha also has a good reputation, but it is a bit hit or miss whatever you get. I'm of the opinion that whatever you do buy, dont go blasting off at high speed for a bit, allow the motor to find its feet so to speak, much like a new car engine.

Also make sure your warranty is on the ball, keep all the info  as even the bosch or yamaha can run into problems from the off or in the first few hundred miles. General consensus seems to be that it doesnt matter which you get, its a bit of pot luck as to whether the motor becomes problematic. Some on example bosch, run into problems from the off and need replacing, which others of the same bosch are in use for a couple of years without so much as a murmur. I think this is one of the reasons im not pushing my kit early one(only done about 300 miles) I dont want to strain it.

I have got a decent 29er fork I could swap on to it - but haven't really seen any bad things about the Gold 35 it's specced with. Rest of the spec is better than most (why I chose it)
Upgrade Bikes have always been good in the past (another reason).
Nice advice about not pushing it straight away. I shall run it in 🙂

“ Joining a specific Emtb forum would be beneficial”

I did this. God, it was so annoying. Full of actual ebikers making painfully unfunny comments about anyone riding a normal bike being poor/dated/slow etc. Left after a few weeks.

I can’t see why it would need running in, it’s not like there are piston rings to loosen up?

“ Joining a specific Emtb forum would be beneficial”

Haha! Missed that. One forum's more than enough in my life, taverymuch!

I can’t see why it would need running in, it’s not like there are piston rings to loosen up?

Electric motors (and modern petrol / diesel) don't need running in - modern manufacturing precision is so good there is nothing to be in. (Haven't need to do it with piston rings for a few decades now).

However, Zero Friction Cycling does recommend a first ride using the factory chain lube (which isn't lube just an anti rust coating) to clean off swarf from the chain manufacture process - then fully clean the chain in solvent and wax / use an actual lube. Turns out bike chains aren't made that well and do shed swarf in the first ride.

I can’t see why it would need running in, it’s not like there are piston rings to loosen up?

As above, i dont either, and they arent anything like car engines. I just like to think gentle use to begin with is better for them. On turbo generates heat, the batteries are something i dont really understand in that how it draws power through and from them. I know it sounds nuts, but its just the way i think i should go with mine.

"I just like to think gentle use to begin with is better for them."

When they updated the firmware on my Levo I noticed they'd reduced the surge of torque from a standstill - which I guess was to reduce the load on the drive belt etc. I missed the comedy acceleration but it did make mechanical sense.

There's no need for any kind of gentle use to start with ,just ride it how ever you want, it makes no difference.

However, Zero Friction Cycling does recommend a first ride using the factory chain lube (which isn’t lube just an anti rust coating) to clean off swarf from the chain manufacture process – then fully clean the chain in solvent and wax / use an actual lube. Turns out bike chains aren’t made that well and do shed swarf in the first ride.

😂😂😂 I really hope no one actually believes that tripe.

Indeed.  Every new chain I have bought - SRAM and KNC come fully lubed with the best lube you get

Ooh, hello!

I really hope no one actually believes that tripe.

Yep, he tests lots of chains and lubes and publishes all his results inc methodology. His results agree with a few other places which do the same, so no reason to doubt his methodology or results. His conclusions / advice are all evidence based.

The stock oil on new Shimano chains performs badly for both wear and friction.

Ooh, hello!

Kinesis Rise pro ?

Watching this thread closely as I'm interested in the Kinesis Rise as a way of getting back into riding following an injury.

Let us know your first impressions @desperatebicycle!

First impression: how bleeding tight do they need to do the stem bolts and axle up on a new bike?! Second impression, hmm I’ve never seen a handlebar with no centre markings before…
3rd impression: massive thanks to @Batman11 for the size guide. It is spot on.
Nice spec levels really, wide rims, decent tyres.
Rides pretty normally without the battery. Still on charge.
Looks ok 😊

I'm well jealous...

I might have to get one 'for the wife'

Battery charged. Starts raining :S

Had a quick scoot round the roads during a gap in this (persistent since I bought a bloody new bike) rain .. first impression riding it - power is introduced very smoothly. In the lightest (River?) mode it's hardly noticeable. In the boostiest it flies along. You still gotta use the gears properly on climbs (pavement ones anyway) - which is something I forget to do on ebikes.
Great thing is the motor is completely silent.
Do feel the weight of it bumping down and over stuff, so off road that's gonna take some finessing. But I expected that with a hardtail anyway.

Having watched a Utuber hoon around the Peaks on a bafanged BFE [for some months] I bought the last medium BFEMaX frame. If that can cope with harsh worn surfaces up there mine should be fine in MidWales. I'm going to swap all the stuff over from my Big Dog. I doubt the Dog frame is stiff enough to cope with the extra weight as I can get the head tube area to flex sprinting out of the saddle. May have it ready for my 70th.

As someone's done a first ride review of their Orbea Rise, suppose I should do one of my Kinesis Rise. Took it out for a decent spin yesterday, with a bit of (inadvisable) off road thrown in.
Firstly the bad-
- (worst) The RS Gold 35s felt ok, but by the time I got home they were completely stuck down. No travel left! How RS can make something as great as the Pike and something as bad as this, I do not know. They're a £500 fork! should be better. Tried some stuff I found on YT, will give them another chance before contacting Upgrade.
- the lights on the remote are impossible to see in the sunlight.
- (minor) cables needed shortening
- had to buy a water cover for the BB area - £20 extra! it's a 99p max piece of plastic and should be included.

Apart from that it was great. I mostly stayed on the road as didn't want to overdo it on the bad leg (still supposed to be resting it) and took it up a couple of steep climbs, which it made light work of - I had to work myself, on the steepest one, it's definitely not like a Bosch that would fly you up. But for a hefty MTB, on the road its a delight. The offroad section was fine, dropped the post and it was very stable, there's a gully that I hate on my gravel bike, it just flew through that. Descent is quite rooty and I can't say I felt any negatives of it being a heavy hardtail.

except it shook my cam off the bars into a droop

🙂
Hopefully will do the commute on Thurs.

One thing that was great - my mate - the person who actually got me into mountain biking back in the 90s, has been unable to ride for a few years due to MS. I let him have a ride and he disappeared. I was worried he'd fallen off. But he came round the corner having done a big loop with a massive grin and was all "I haven't felt like that on a bike for ages!!" buzzing. That was nice.

So all in all with the exception of a gubbed fork, it hit a positive then. Oh and you've now got a mate who's going to be on you constantly for another go.

As to the fork I wouldnt bother trying to run a fix, it's a good chance of getting stuck again, or worse and when you do need to put it in they say 'hold on,this forks had work done on it',then refuse to replace it. Just go straight to whom you got it from and either try to get a new one or see if you can upgrade for a small additional price

My mate's gonna buy himself one (cycle-to-work scheme, though he works from home!). Lives too far away to keep going on mine 🙂
Just gonna give to fork another try. If it's no good, yep, will try to exchange.

Forks have got to go to Sram for warranty repair. So you buy a bike to get you riding, it has a faulty component, so you have to send the component back and can't ride til it's fixed. Very disappointing.
Lucky for me I have another bike I can take forks off and use the Rise with those, but a lot of people wouldn't have.