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Well, I finally had a shot on my friend's On One Fatty fitted with Bafang 500 watt motor. I had been putting this off for as long as possible knowing that I would want want an E-bike forever thereafter, and I was correct. It was brilliant fun!
Strangely enough, the bit I enjoyed most was trying to find stupidly steep uphill bits to try to see if I could get up them. Going downhill I just turned the motor off and treated it as an almost 'normal' MTB.
So inevitably now I am looking at getting some sort of Ebike for myself. The thing is, I want a hardtail, I have always ridden hardtails, I just like hardtails, and there is not exactly a large selection of higher spec hardtail Ebike models, so I am wondering if an after-market conversion of a cheap trail MTB may suit my needs better.
I wonder if STW could help me with the following queries:
- Are off the shelf EMTBs all sold as 'street legal' machines? i.e motor not over 250w or whatever the street limit is? And if so, is 250w enough to get up steep inclines without collapsing in a pile of sweat at the end? I am prepared to do a bit of pedalling but don't want to exhaust myself - I have a normal trail MTB to do that on.
- What is the best motor for my use? Bafang? CYC? I am thinking maybe 750w mid-drive. I am not interested in high speeds, but do want decent power on tap for the uphills, and reasonable range but nothing crazy.
- I see some motors/ kits come with a 'street-legal' mode? Is this legally ok or is it just a marketing tool that won't really wash it when the police stop me on the pavement doing burnouts outside my granny's?
- Looking at the prices of hardtail EMTBs, it would seem a bit mad to pay full dollar for an off the shelf hardtail bike when you can build something equivalent or better for half the price? Am I correct? I realise full-sus ebikes are maybe a different kettle of fish.
- Anyone know any skilled ebike converters in Scotland? I know a man in a shed in Aberdeen who has been recommended to me and that's it.
The only retail Ebike hardtail I have seen that has caught my eye as not being an aesthetic abomination is the Orbea Urrun - but on further investigation this appears to be a low powered 'long range' ebike rather than one with serious oomph. A Trek Powerfly may be a more suitable alternative - I read good things about the better Bosch motors?
God this is a long post...
And if so, is 250w enough to get up steep inclines without collapsing in a pile of sweat at the end?
It’s plenty, especially if you use the gears properly. 250w is the nominal amount.
I was out on my Fazua powered eMTB hardtail a little while ago, one of those really hot days a few weeks back. Slogging, sweating like a bastard up a steep road climb (thinking I used to do this easy without a motor! now it ****in hurts with!) when someone on a full fat eMTB went past me at probably 3X my speed, with no effort whatsoever. Man, why didn't I buy one of those?!
Started this topic on the subject a short while back
""https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/hardtail-ebikes/
The Orbea Urrun wasn't out then btw, probably what I'd go for now tbh.
^^ Actually it's not, for the money, the spec is rubbish compared to the Kinesis Rise.
And if so, is 250w enough to get up steep inclines without collapsing in a pile of sweat at the end?
Add say 150W of your own personal physical power to that and spinning along you may well be hitting 400W, so even at 100kg you're putting out a very respectable 4w/kg climbing, so pretty much everything you come across will be easy a pie
See my thread about the Trek Powerfly mrs_oab had on rental this weekend.
Huuuge battery, Bosch motor.
In turbo mode I (90kg) and the bike (32kg'ish with rack, panniers, lights, lock, stand etc) would accelerate up steep banks and rocketed up a 200m climb - and that was in trail mode, not even turbo.
Edit: be wary of building something that isn't street legal and effectively is you taking an electric motorcross bike on the trails and roads.
It seems more than a few shed based converters and importers are comfortable with this.
I wouldn't be from legal and environmental point of view.
The tongsheng kit IIRC is better than the bafang as it torque senses (like the expensive ones) rather than just outputting a fixed amount of power as long as you pretend to pedal.
Downside I can see is you end up with a very heavy battery to mount onto water bottle bosses that probably weren't designed for the task. Judging by the number of straps holding deliveroo riders batteries on this fear isn't unfounded!
I'm currently looking for something to convert into a utility/cargo bike. My Ofo's great, but bejesus is it heavy and slow up any hills.
+1 for the Tongsheng kit. I love my kitted Switchback 😎
The rated or nominal output is 250w (an average over 15mins??), the peak output will be much much more than that..
knowing that I would want want an E-bike forever there after, and I was correct. It was brilliant fun!
....
So inevitably now I am looking at getting some sort of Ebike for myself. The thing is, I want a hardtail, I have always ridden hardtails, I just like hardtails
I'd still say try a full susser, as there's no weight penalty for the suspension with an e-bike, and a HT will be harder on you with extra weight off-road (not suggesting it can't be fun or completely do-able). I'd suggest finding a local place that hires them, which are normally hardtails, or they are in my local forest & have a proper ride on one.
My Levo puts out 600W peak and I imagine most 250W nominal motors are similar.
Downside I can see is you end up with a very heavy battery to mount onto water bottle bosses that probably weren’t designed for the task. Judging by the number of straps holding deliveroo riders batteries on this fear isn’t unfounded!
A friend, with a Bafung kit, has been doing this for years on both a carbon road bike and carbon MTB. Amazingly, both bottle cage bolts are still attached! Think it's the 750W Bafung motor - can't recall. I did managed to out sprint him up a short hill, which he was very surprised by did take me about half an hour to recover mind....
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51908192862_ab65da805d_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51908192862_ab65da805d_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2n5X4hs ]Bafang ebike conversion[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
Thanks for all the input.
Taking the above into account, it would appear a Trek Powerfly hardtail with a Bosch motor would fit the bill. I just wonder how capable it is off road. I think I will take one for a demo and see how it stacks up against the Bafang'ed On One I already tried. I wonder if the Trek would be worth the additional say £1000 over a normal hardtail with after market motor fitted.
I didn't know that the off the shelf Ebike 250W motors had a higher peak output so this may well be all I need.
Kayla any pics of your Stanton?
Just the one, this on the way to me mam's in Blyth for an overnighter-
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I've got it set up as a tourer rather than an e-MTB, so high-ish single speed gearing (42:17) that's geared such that the assist limit cuts in at a comfy 80-ish rpm cadence which (I think) helps save the battery for when I need it. 100km is doable comfortably on a single charge if I'm not hoofing it on sport or turbo, although it is pretty flat up here so that'll help with battery life too.
I had a cadence sensing Bafang last year but much prefer the lower powered Tongsheng with torque sensing.