[Closed] Hard-tail advice - NOT hardcore

Love my Curtis.

Niner do some nice steel frames too.

I'd prefer a 26" purely because I like to be able to swap tyres/tubes from bike to bike and I don't want a whole stable of 29ers. I do like the look of Niners tho' so not totally out of the running.

Kinesis? XC3, XC130 or something like that?

You could buy frame only and build up to your spec with bits off here.

http://www.bikescene.co.uk/Orange-R8-Frame-3977-0-0.html

Got one - love it!

Started with a 120mm fork, but soon swapped to 100mm - improved it so much!

I've just bought a very nice Whyte 19 steel from atb sales direct. They had 2 lovely 905 custom (medium) size for just over 1k.

get the TI one from Kingdom bikes in classified if you're a small.

Good suggestions. Keep 'em coming. How light do these frames build up? Some of the steel ones I've seen end up being a bit close to 30lbs for my liking. I was looking for a lightweight build up to 25lbs or so.

Weeksy, classified are no good. It's an insurance pay out which has to be done via certain channels.

Could you get a Cotic Soul?

Before I bought the Whyte I was looking at pauls cycles, they tend to have some nice bargains. They were doing a nice Scott for 1k with a great spec
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s2p3222

Sam, the Soul appeals enormously based on looks alone. I'd be interested to know how light people have built it. I'll have a full susser so don't need a burly hardtail; it can be built light.

Some of the steel ones I've seen end up being a bit close to 30lbs for my liking. I was looking for a lightweight build up to 25lbs or so.

Comments like that are odd. Think about it. Frame weight doesn't differ by 5lbs. If you take the parts off a 17lb Scott Scale and hang them all on an Inbred, you still have a 21lb Inbred...

Not sure what your budget is and I know this is quite as 'niche' as some of the brands mentioned but for light weight and xc duties my father bought one of these when they had an offer on and it rides well:
http://www.khsbikes.co.uk/bikes/12-khs-alite-2000sl

Sanderson Breath here and loving it still - and it was a bargain cosmetic seconds from thebikechain for £175...Really nice and sprightly

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8441/7824010678_968b753ffc_b.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8441/7824010678_968b753ffc_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/7824010678/ ]Comrie Croft pump jump track[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/matt_outandabout/ ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

Frame weight doesn't differ by 5lbs

That's very true, but the kind of kit that goes on a 17lb Scott Scale is probably a bit beyond what I want to spend, which is why I was asking about typical builds people have. If an SLX build with some Revelations means a Soul will be 28lb for example, then it's not the right bike for me.

[EDIT} - looking for a £1200 ish build

@stilltortoise

Now you're talking ! You'll recall I asked the HT question. I did so as I got a Cotic BFe as my do it all bike (150/120 forks), I do have a FS for Alps etc, but for the vast majority of my riding inc the Surrey Hills, Peak District and Trail Centre riding I do it is more than adequate. We all like to be complimented and last weekend two seperate riders said "nice bike" (we did share mutual appreciation as one was riding a Prince Albert set up as a single speed, he was of course overtaking me on a climb!). Build is more 30 than 25 I'd guess but certainly lighter than the FS.

I suppose the trouble with Cotic or (Dialled Bikes another option I suggest you look at eg Prince Albert) is that you cannot buy complete bikes from them as far as I know. Will the insurance let you buy second hand / ex-demo or give you a cash option ?

From the weight of my BFe and Prince Albert frames I'd say the weight of the finished bike will be driven by the components. I saved nearly 1kg when I took the dual ply high rollers off my FS !

EDIT: £1200 build, a new Soul Frame is £500 so that's rather tight, one of reasons I got a BFe/PA is the frames were on offer for £300

MORE EDIT: Bike Brechfa (and 18 ?) are selling ex demo BFe's for £1000. I am sure I saw a Solaris ("Soul 29er" if you like) at about the same price, bargain I'd say. See their websites.

You can build a Soul to well under 24lb easily enough without breaking the bank. My 1x9 is currently 25lb with summer tyres and that's without worrying about weight including 20mm Revs, Pro 2 Arch EX, Deore 180/180 brakes, Saint mech, stiffer but heavier SLX double and bash cranks etc etc

Dialled Prince Albert?

The Sandersons are nice, bit flexy though (I had a Life), although I'm 95kg so flex is relative!

Go 29er, singular swift with hope hoops, singlespeed and tubeless purgatorys's work in/on just about any conditions so no need to swap bits arround.

My next hardtail will be a Sanderson - I'm impressed you got the 853 tubes flexing 'Spoon.

Chumba HX1 ? 300 quid for the frame.

Sanderson +1 8)

My Soul's built up pretty sturdy (140mm forks, Flow rims, big tyres, big brakes, dropper post, etc) and comes in at 26.5lbs, so with shorter forks, lighter wheels and tyres, and so on, it would be quite a lot lighter. How much lighter a steel frame can you get?

[i]You can build a Soul to well under 24lb easily enough without breaking the bank[/i]

Utter rot, you'll be lucky to see sub 28lbs without a load of cash spent. And CGG, lets see a picture, on scales?

Jambalaya, yes I do recall 🙂

The insurance will let me buy a frame from elsewhere but they do the build. I'm after a HT and a FS so don't need one "master of all". I think the challenge is making sure the bikes are sufficiently different that they serve distinct and different purpose. Maybe I need a cross bike 😉

How much lighter a steel frame can you get?

My 17.5" Dekerf Generation is 1895g. I think even lightweight frames on the market now are built a bit heavier to get through CEN testing.

My medium Dialled PA frame weight is 2243g, so less than 350g difference. As said, there are a lot of other things that are going to contribut to whether your bike is 24 or 29lbs

What the frame weight on an R8?

stilltortoise - I was going to suggest that! Kona Jake?

Arrggghhh!!!! 😆

I sense I'm going to get fed up with bike buying. There really is a LOT of choice out there. It's all a bit bewildering

Or a fat bike? 😀

There really is a LOT of choice out there. It's all a bit bewildering

What the frame weight on an R8

I remember when mine arrived it felt quite heavy compared to the alloy thing it was replacing...

However, it rides like a dream!

My build is xt /slx, reba sl's, pro2's, thompson post & slk carbon bars. !
3x9 too - proper old school!

Will replace the forks this winter hopefully! Got my eye on some out of date reba world cups sat in a shop!

At a guess I would say about 26lb... but weight means nothing to me - I am fat! It's all about the ride feel, and I love the feel of steel! (other bike is a charge duster ss!)

😀

@br. It depends what you mean by breaking the bank - Avid elixir r 160/160 brakes, qr rebas, pro2 as above, normal slx cranks, xt shifter and cassette, monkey bar, thomson post, spoon saddle. Nice, but not ultra exotic stuff. 23.7lb to be exact.

Kenisis, Pipedream or On-one Whippet ??

we did share mutual appreciation as one was riding a Prince Albert set up as a single speed, he was of course overtaking me on a climb!

Ah, puts name to face as that was me @ Holmbury. It is a Love/Hate not a PA though.

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Just got one of [url= http://www.merida-bikes.com/en_gb/bike/2012/11/MTB+Hardtails/O.Nine+1000-D+ ]these Merida O nine pro 1000d[/url] for £1050 its a 2012 model and is total quality for the money well worth having a look at

the Soul is a [b]nice[/b] looking bike but that looks like a £1500 build at a guess
😀

Whyte 901 great all round trail bike,£1199,decent kit 25.5 lbs,read the reviews.
Ian

best not get a soul it would make your bouncer redundant.

My next hardtail will be a Sanderson - I'm impressed you got the 853 tubes flexing 'Spoon.

They're mahoosively flexy! "steel is real" and all that jazz, the only frame i've ridden that was flexier was a steel SUNN XC frame from the 90's that weighed about 1500g/3.3lb! Although the 456 that preceeded the sanderson was just heavy and tough with a slight dull feeling rather than the flexy zing of the sanderson, different reasons for using steel i suppose. Latest hardtail is a Chumba HX1, hopeing for the stiffness of the 456 with the urgency of my old CAAD F'series.

Enigma Ego, Steel or Ti. I have the Ti with 100mm RS SID fork, AC Wheels and 2012 XT - 22lbs.

Or if you really want to be the envy of STWers everwhere, there's this;

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8325/8145131730_0e868a4c37.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8325/8145131730_0e868a4c37.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/kryton1957/8145131730/ ]ego_29r_1[/url]

http://www.enigmabikes.com/bike/bike-enigma-ego29er-st.html

Ooh that's nice

EDIT just seen price 😯

Mr Tortoise, with an appropriately spec'd Soul, unless you're approaching a DH race mix of terrain and speed, a FS will be pretty much redundant! 😉 You'd have to do some bargain hunting to make the £1500 budget but mine is quite bling (in a stealthy manner).

Seems the difference in weight between mine and CGG's Soul is his dropper post. Quick check in my head and my build is circa £1700, if i'd used totally new parts that is.

nedrapier - Member

What the frame weight on an R8?

It's a secret Which I reckon means just as heavy or heavier than a Soul, despite having similiar construction and less capability and being more expensive 😉

Still, Bike-Scene still has them at £270, which is definately worth a look, if that's an option for the OP.

Mr Tortoise, with an appropriately spec'd Soul, unless you're approaching a DH race mix of terrain and speed, a FS will be pretty much redundant!

I've never subscribed to this belief since I'm a strong believer that a full susser can offer advantages over a HT on the ups and the alongs. It's not all about "will this bike let me ride DOWN here?" If I could only have one bike it would be a HT, but if I could only have one bike it would probably also be rigid.

...I do really love your bike tho' 🙂

Genesis do some cool hard tails.

[b]@Scamper[/b] Seems your bike's lost weight recently? Where's the gravity gone since you correctly guessed the weight of mine at 26lbs? Lightweight summer tyres?

I've had a Sanderson Breath and a Soloist in the past before my bespoke Curtis,they are great for the price and I don't think you'll be disapointed with one.However don't take the weights they list on the site as accurate my 16" Soloist weighed a tad under a pound more than listed I was pretty gutted to be honest with you i know a few others over the internet that have discovered the same thing.

All steels (the material not a particular tube or frame) are basicaly the same stiffness.

In general stronger steel built into a lighter frame will be less stiff, simply as youhave less metal. Assuming all other factors like tube diamter are the same...

You can pick up an Orange R8 frame for £270 now? That's a bargain for an 853 frame if you ask me.
I think you can find the weight for the R8 frame on the orange website.

OOPS!! sorry guys it's no longer on the orange site but it still exists in the pages of Retrobike where someone plucked it out a while back.
Anyhoo its claimed weight was 2.4kg with the quick release seatclamp so thats 5.29lbs.Not sure what frame size that is 🙄

Rock lobster853? Mine with f120 xt group set and a lightweight seatpost/saddle is sub 27lb 3x10. It certainly feels light.

scamper
would agree my Soul 17.5" 9 speed, light rims carbon bars xt cranks hope mini brakes tubeless is 23.7 lbs.