[Closed] Had carbon bike repair take a look at a second hand frame I bought

Sounds like a lucky escape!

By which I mean you won't have to do any time. trialling this summer now. 😉

By which I mean you won’t have to do any time. trialling this summer now.

😂😂

That’s one way of looking at it!

Sounds bizarre. Surely there would be some evidence of this, like flex? Can you give any info beyond "****ed"

@cynic-al

Sure, report below. Makes you question how many other bikes out there have similar issues buried under the paint I must say!

Your SPECIALIZED SHIV TT has now been through the health check inspection and the following found.

Fork:-Small stress line in the paint on the crown of the fork .No carbon fracture.

Carbon fracture to brake boss on non drive side of fork brake boss.

Upon testing there are signs of carbon fracturing present along with the paint beginning to crack around this area is a tell tale sign of a deeper problem.

The brake boss can be repaired for Carbon £250.00+VAT/Paint restore to the repaired area £250.00+VAT , this may be reduced depending on how big the repair area is during the repair process but I have estimated the worst case.

Frame:

All chain stay and seat stays have small carbon fractures present.

Seat stay fractures would be priced at £200.00+VAT per fracture area. (2) paint restore to repair area £180.00+VAT

Chain stay fractures would be priced at £250.00+VAT per fracture area.(2)paint restore to repair area£200.00+VAT.

Seattube also shows small fracture on both sides around insert/tube , has not fully failed but will get worse if left as is.

Carbon repair £250.00+VAT/Paint restore £200.00+VAT

Non drive side head tube abrasion Carbon £150.00+VAT/Paint restore to repair area £200.00+VAT

Please let the team known how you wish to proceed with repairs or if you have any questions.

Is this particular type of frame known for being a bit weak or problematic?

Sounds odd to me that they think it has so many problems. I wonder how many other bikes would show similar 'faults' under close examination yet continue to be ridden with no problem for many years.

In fact I wonder how many brand new unridden frames would show similar faults under close examination?

£1200 total to fix the paint once repaired? Seems a bit steep.

The painter I use, JMJ designs, charges £500 to do a whole carbon frame, £600 if you want it stripping back to bare carbon, and you can choose the colour…

£1200 total to fix the paint once repaired? Seems a bit steep.

Insurance money.

tomhoward
Full Member

£1200 total to fix the paint once repaired? Seems a bit steep.

Yeah that didn't make sense to me. Not sure why they haven't also given a cost for a full respray as that's what you'd be talking about if all the work was done

Think I’d be looking for a second opinion on that rather than writing off the frame.

How much did the testing cost OP? - mainly I'm wondering how they test it, it's not (at all) a cheap job to do properly and the report sounds a lot like bum covering to me. (I'm so much as it's a lot of damage to pretty much all the areas of the bike you might expect to see damage. One stay? Maybe, all 4 with no bits of brickwork still burried in the bike? That I struggle with unless the fractures are really perfectly normal and non problematic)

I have to say that sounds so non-specific, and what does a minor fracture mean?

As you say I imagine we're all riding bikes with as many faults. If a bike isn't flexing noticeably when wrenched around (ie more than just riding it), it can still have a significant weakness that is dangerous?

I'd be getting a 2nd opinion for sure.

Sounds horrific and makes me wonder how the frame hasn't exploded by now and destroyed everything within a 50m radius.

No idea what kind of reputation Carbon Repair have but I'd be looking for a second opinion. This

Upon testing there are signs of carbon fracturing present along with the paint beginning to crack around this area is a tell tale sign of a deeper problem.

suggests to me that they might be inspecting the exterior and making assumptions, I thought this kind of thing involved x-rays to look for real evidence of real fractures - have they provided anything like that?

I realise you bought it second hand but is it worth talking to Specialized to get their opinion? If one of my frames was failing that drastically I'd like to know, and I'd also like to know if a third party was effectively writing my frame off needlessly as that could lead to reputational damage.

I did think it seemed slightly odd! There were a couple of tiny paint cracks which I sanded down to check for cracks in carbon, and there were none. And none were where the report says there are cracks

I do wonder how many of these fractures would be present if you sent a brand new frame to them

£1200 total to fix the paint once repaired? Seems a bit steep.

Per area / repair prices added up but if you had all done and a full respray it wouldn't be that much?

In fact I wonder how many brand new unridden frames would show similar faults under close examination?

A rabbit hole best not entered if you enjoy riding your carbon bike.

It's hard to say without incurring some sort of liability when it explodes and kills you 24.9miles into your PB 25. But how much of that damage would fall into the category of never being a problem within the life of the frame? Would it quite happily have done a decade or more of TT's on smooth roads with no issues at all until you got bored or the drip-drip of "4 seconds faster over 25 miles at 40mph" each year became too much?

If the fork is the worst bit, surely the solution is to just to buy something from Easton (or Planet X, depending on budget).

Did you discuss with them on the phone?

As above, did they do X-rays or not?

If it’s the people I think it is, I’ve seen their videos on YouTube etc and they have a few different inspection methods including cameras and x ray etc

I’d certainly pop Spesh UK customer services an email with the report and serial number just to see if there was ever a warranty claim on the frame (thinking it was refused after an accident or something). If nothing else out of curiosity.

I do wonder how many of these fractures would be present if you sent a brand new frame to them

yep - my money is on these 'faults' being normal. It may well be that there are fractures in all these places that they say, but I reckon it'd be considered normal or within tolerances of manufacture.

I reckon it’d be considered normal or within tolerances of manufacture.

ThEsE aRe * ExPeNsIvE * bIkEs ThEy ShOuLd Be **** PeRfEcT!!1!!1!!

/hambini

Nor will I send another of my bikes to carbon bike repair because I’m terrified what they’d find!!

Actually that's exactly what needs to be done. With multiple new frames to estimate sensitivity and specificity of their testing. By brand of course. They can only report on what they've measured, but you need a baseline for false positives. There is often plenty of filler under the paint and perhaps they note these sorts of cracks.

Has there been an epidemic of SHIV frame failures in the TT scene? I think we'd have heard by now, and had the recalls. A google search reveals no such epidemic. The only Shiv recall was for bars in 2015.

I'd file under ignore and ride on. TT bikes have an easy life. It's the bars that have the failures not the frames. Carbon frames are very robust even when you remove tubes!

ThEsE aRe * ExPeNsIvE * bIkEs ThEy ShOuLd Be **** PeRfEcT!!1!!1!!

It's the reality of the material. Its very difficult to tell the difference between a crack in the top coat and something that goes deep. The only way to tell, without an xray, is to sand in to it and expose lower layers and even then you are breaking the fibers to expose lower level fibers. My guess is that its fine and its just cracking in the top coat.

Going by that report they have either simplified it into layman language for you or they've just done a visual/tap test. Nothing in there suggests any kind of real testing with any kind of equipment such as UT, Xray etc

Not saying that's a bad thing but 'fractures' is not really explaining much

Source: I'm an engineer and my job involves assessing damage reports on composite structures and designing repairs

Give Andy and MagnaFibre in Alva a call, he is rather handy at carbon fibres repairs and may be able to get that all repaired for much less - might be worth letting him see the report so he has an idea of the extent of the damage.

I'm agreeing with the folk above who reckon it's fine - I suspect what's being registered as fractures is normal carbon lay-up, paint chips etc and any damage is probably microscopic.

Worth getting a second opinion certainly and maybe dropping Specialized a line just to explain that you're the second owner, it's not warranty etc but what are their thoughts on this. They may go down the liability route of saying "never ride it!" but they may be able to set your mind at rest.

Recommendation for Rob Hayles: https://carbon-concepts.co.uk/ - he's done some very comprehensive carbon repairs including full tube replacement and he's a former TT specialist, he'll know everything about the frames.

It's a common enough TT frame, if there were loads of frame failures I think we'd know about it.

Other option might be to go back to the buyer and say "here's what I've found..." and see if you can appeal to their conscience to refund or, if the sums of money are big enough, Small Claims Court for selling damaged goods (if that's actually a thing, not sure what your rights are buying S/H)

They're quoting £200 per spot of paint, which is ludicrous

I'd be getting a quote from a company who are not *****