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Just saw the first post again and see it is same battery, ta. Hadn't looked at the prototype picture closely so hadn't seen it wasn't the GX kit.
Mattbee are you constrained to using the left hand routing for the rear brake on that intense?
That’s the look I (eventually) want, just two brake cables coming off the bars.
“Mattbee are you constrained to using the left hand routing for the rear brake on that intense?”
With no other cables, it would be jut as easy to use the entry port on the rhs of the bike.
Bike discount had the upgrade kit up for 640Euro before taking the page down.
So guess its going to be around 400 for the derailleur. Thats going to hurt if you bash it or sram quality makes it unusable as the pivots wears out in in 12 months.
I'm pretty interested in this after last weekend's utter ballache of recabling my Stumpy Evo.
Battery cover is interesting, guess a more formal extra layer of security, like Jacy Shumilak has been doing to Sam Hill's AXS mech with gaffer tape.
This will be interesting to see what it actually costs. I’m really looking forward to shimano’s response. It’s been a long time coming but can’t be far away
Shimano tend not to rush, and I reckon they'll be keener in getting a 105 level Di2 road group out before they bother with SLX-Di2.
Arguably the best move Shimano have made for MTB groups lately is making Deore cover several (1x/2x10/11/12) bases as that probably helps make it more attractive for mid-ish tier OEM customers.
Much as I like the idea of leccy shifting, I'd rather have an affordable version on my road bike long before I bothered for my MTB. Bowden cables are still adequate for 99% of off-road cycling (IMO).
I'm not really sure what level of consumer GX-AXS is going to be pitched at right now, if you're flush enough to be mulling over £800 for a mech and shifter, you're probably flush enough to spend the extra on X01-AXS, if you've got bang on £800 for "upgrades" you are probably well aware that you can buy a shit load of other, arguably more useful, bits with that cash than a wireless mech/shifter. Aftermarket it still doesn't work unless it's much cheaper and SRAM tend not to be cheap aftermarket...
TBH it's probably more of a draw if spec'd OEM on a bike so I'd maybe expect to see some upper-mid tier #Enduro sleds pimped with GX-AXS for a few hundred premium over the mechanical equivalent, in the next year or so. Make the OEM price differential narrower so as to get new golfers accustomed to leccy shifting, and it starts to become their default choice, especially if integrated with a dropper. This is all pitched at the big spenders still.
The trouble is AXS is only really a benefit to OEMs if it lets them fully eliminate cabling for gears and droppers from a frame (making it cheaper to produce). Which sounds awesome but would you want to commit that fully to one drivetrain/dropper supplier's high price point products today?
So it's going to end up fitted to frames with redundant cable routing for quite a while yet, meaning it's not all that beneficial to anyone but still costs the consumer a fair old whack...
If I wanted to try wireless shifting I'd be looking at the archer d1x system to be honest, certainly am not paying over 400-500 for a bloody gx shifter+derailleur.
Normalising £800 spend for what is essentially a mid range mech is nuts. I don’t know how industry is achieving it as to me it’s nothing more than bike jewellery.
In the 90’s spending half that on an entire bike would get you something pretty decent. Salary inflation has not 10x’d since then.
Gravel bikes are where it goes beyond nuts. Take what is essentially a light hardtail frame, wack on some drop bars and hydro brakes. That’ll be £5k please. Oh you want wireless, that’ll be £8k and buy the way, it’s not even that much lighter than your double suss.
Gravel bikes are where it goes beyond nuts. Take what is essentially a light hardtail frame, wack on some drop bars and hydro brakes. That’ll be £5k please. Oh you want wireless, that’ll be £8k and buy the way, it’s not even that much lighter than your double suss.
At those prices I’d agree, but you can get very decent gravel bikes for £1500, you don’t have to spend crazy money. Choice etc.
samuelr
Bike discount had the upgrade kit up for 640Euro
640 is about 80 cheaper than X01. All a bit pointless.
Shimano tend not to rush, and I reckon they’ll be keener in getting a 105 level Di2 road group out before they bother with SLX-Di2.
No kidding. Look at saint/zee groupset, not changed since 2013 and is well overdue a revamp.
That being said, looking forward to shimano's response to AXS.
Their response seems to have wires still. Wireless shifters, and dérailleurs with wires to the battery.
640 is about 80 cheaper than X01. All a bit pointless.
X01 eagle AXS upgrade kit RRP is 830 euros, so 200 euros less.
Normalising £800 spend for what is essentially a mid range mech is nuts. I don’t know how industry is achieving it as to me it’s nothing more than bike jewellery.
In the 90’s spending half that on an entire bike would get you something pretty decent. Salary inflation has not 10x’d since then.
^^This I agree with^^
Gravel bikes are where it goes beyond nuts. Take what is essentially a light hardtail frame, wack on some drop bars and hydro brakes. That’ll be £5k please. Oh you want wireless, that’ll be £8k and buy the way, it’s not even that much lighter than your double suss.
^^this, less so^^
Yes You can spend silly money on a gravel bike, but there quite a lot of more sensibly priced ones about too. I don't think £5k gravel bikes have been normalised yet, maybe £1.5k? Hydraulic Discs, 1x or 2x, Al frame, maybe a carbon fork that's all you want and it need not cost a fortune... Most people who have a gravel bike have it as an "N+1" and won't spend more on a gravel bike than their main MTB/road bike.
Those prices come From
asking in the bike shop the other day for:
Carbon frame gravel
Hydro brakes
1x setup with wide gear range to handle gravel + road
As close to 9kg or under
Best way to achieve it today seems to pair an X01 axs mtb mech with a force axs brake / shifter for full Eagle range.
You know a cheap way to do it cable or bike co’s that offer anything interesting for a reasonable amount?
Basically I want one double suss / one hard tail that can do everything.
You know a cheap way to do it cable
IIRC All SRAMs 12 speed stuff works together, so you could do an sx rear mech with whatever their cheapest 12s road shifters are.
A carbon everything, full AXS Santa Cruz Stigmata is £6.7k RRP. Not cheap, but not £8k. With a bit of research/shrewd shopping you could get/build up something a similar spec for under £5k I reckon.
None of which is necessary. My steel (carbon fork) 2x11, hydro, 10ishkg gravel bike was £1200 (plus £400 for some nicer wheels).
Nobody pays RRP though. I see the X01 kit listed at 704, albeit out of stock.
Those prices come From
asking in the bike shop the other day for:
I walked into a Lamborghini dealership the other day and asked for a car: 0-60 in under 2.5s, must come in a garish neon colour, must have a full leather interior,engine must be at least 450bhp, must be Italian.
After my extensive research it turns out all cars are wildly overpriced...
Also:
double suss
^^Nobody calls full suspension bikes this, a lack of familiarity with common terms may be part of why your LBS is trying to rinse you.
As for 1x mechanical groups, how wide do you need to go? Apex1/rival and GRX can both do at least an 11-42 cassette, probably wider... Dare I say it do a bit of research, there's a whole wide interweb full of information you can see for free.
IIRC All SRAMs 12 speed stuff works together, so you could do an sx rear mech with whatever their cheapest 12s road shifters are.
I didn't think there were any 12 speed road shifters?
Hence the kits to make one
https://cyclingtips.com/2020/10/ratio-technology-sram-1x12-speed-upgrade-kit/
This forum is an incredibly dull place. It’s the same users posting the same old drivel in every thread.
Threads about axs just go the same way every time. Just attracts the same dobbers who just want to chime in saying they won’t spend the money and 9 speed is fine…
Wouldn't it be more boring if we all agreed? This thread seems to have every possible opinion on electronic shifting. I see that as a good thing
I didn’t think there were any 12 speed road shifters?
Might be thinking of 11s then, I don’t really keep up with the road stuff.
I’m not really asking for a Lamborghini at a Astra price at all.
What I’m saying is that an Eagle GX MTB cable group set with 10-52 will give you more than enough range to keep up on a road group ride and have fun on gravel with just one bike (assuming a large enough front chainring). With the standard gravel groups you will run out of gears too quickly on the road to be able to keep up.
I just want this on a road or gravel frame.
I can see the point for road and gravel but for MTB electronic shifting just seems like a solution in search of a problem. When I was speccing my last build I did look at ES but other than *maybe* nicer shifting there were no real advantages to justify the extra dosh.
Of course if you've a spare grand lying around and want ES then go ahead.
I didn’t think there were any 12 speed road shifters?
Yeh the Force and Red AXS group sets are 12 speed.
Ahhh, so you want a Gravel bike that's really a road bike... the answer is Campagolo Ekar
It's Mechanical, gravelly, will definitely get a second envious glance on the club runs and wins the spinal tap marketing award by turning the sprocket count up to 13...
Haha that looks amazing:
Specced onto a bike it’s not too crazy:
Cheers...
Basically the gravel bike that is a road bike is exactly what I want. As long as it won’t snap if I do the odd bunny hop.
Back to elec shifting on this kind of bike makes sense. Looks like gravel and MTB will end up merging with bar choice hopefully...
Actually I'd forgotten about the newish 'ratio technology' kit, they sell mod parts for SRAM shifters and mechs so you can either get an 11speed drop bar shifter talking to an eagle mech by changing the cable pull on the mech, or mod an 11speed road shifter to 12 clicks (new ratchet) and change the cable pull on the eagle mech to give you that magic drop-bar eagle solution...
So in theory you could mod say a GX eagle mech and a Rival lever to do exactly what you reckon you want...
Much cheaper than AXS or Campag...
Now we’re talking. Cheers.
Yeh the Force and Red AXS group sets are 12 speed.
I meant no mechanical 12 speed shifters. But I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong
$600 for rear mech and Shifter/controller apparently.... Only difference to xo and XX is the weight and materials.....
My xo set up cost about that... £550 + battery for £35.....
That's a decent RRP (let's not compare rrp vs what someone paid 18 months ago, shall we...) especially considering X01/XX1 axs upgrade kits were £975 rrp at launch.
Should mean it'll be available for closer to £400 once the world has calmed down a bit.
let’s not compare rrp vs what someone paid 18 months ago, shall we
How about last month?
Possible clearing stock before this came on the market....
If it is £400 or less then I might be interested, any more than that and I can't justify it no matter how good it is.
But having read that back, I feel £200 for a mech and £100 for a shifter would be my limit. Plus a few £ for the charger.
Don't see any point for 1x systems. Cables aren't really bothersome.
All those saying that we just dont like it because it's innovation i.e. we hate dropper posts etc. nonsense. Electronic shifting for 1x systems offer no real discernible benefit other than it feels a little bit nicer. Great. not at £600.
Indexing gears really isnt hard. In fact when i replaced my gear cable, i didnt even need to adjust the indexing on the x01. part Luck but also because it's simple now.
But having read that back, I feel £200 for a mech and £100 for a shifter would be my limit. Plus a few £ for the charger.
You can pick up a force axs rear mech for £200 (2nd hand) and not much more new, so I'm sure it'll only be a year or so until the discount retailers start 'shifting'😜 these for around that price....
But having read that back, I feel £200 for a mech and £100 for a shifter would be my limit. Plus a few £ for the charger.
Presumably SRAM are interested in the 'system cost'. I.e. you can't have electronic shifting without both bits so does the price of the individual bits even matter? Well, it does for those of us (all of us?) worried about smashing an expensive derailleur. Why don't they make the derailleurs cheaper and the shifters more expensive? I'd be much happier with £100 for the derailleur + £200 for the shifter than vice versa. I.e. they can sell us the 'system' at a profit from the shifters that recoups R&D but the mechs are sold at cost? I think that would alleviate a LOT of the concerns that people have about it.
I realise there might be an issue with differentiating GX and XO1, though (I think the shifters are the same?).
I think the shifters are the same?
The gx shifter is a few grams heavier....
... patiently waiting for Shimano to release something that's actually affordable 😀
Basically the gravel bike that is a road bike is exactly what I want. As long as it won’t snap if I do the odd bunny hop.
That never really quite works out. And you really don't need such a massive gearing range. Outside of touring bike designed to be loaded up with your bodyweight in kit, gearing bottoms out at 1:1 on even the most MAMIL/sportive marketed bikes. 10-42 with a 42t chainring get's you that silly low 1:1 gear, and 42:10 is higher (once you added 42c tyres increasing the gearing) than the traditional 52-13 race bikes used to top out at.
The flip side is, even on an 11-34 cassette you'll be constantly flipping up and down gears looking for a nicer cadence. 1x works off-road, on road (IMO) it's just horrible.
Secondly, unless you're substantially fitter than your clubmates, 42c+ tyres do drag more than 23c. They just do, especially when combined with big blunt rims. I can happily ride my gravel bike against workmates on the lunchtime road rides, but I couldn't take it anywhere near a clubrun, I'd be straight out the back!
FWIW I think you're barking up the wrong tree. My "gravel" bike cost £400 for a Cannondale CAADX Rival, and then I spent about ~£150 on some nice 25mm wide 1600g handbuilt wheels. If you want an all-singing and dancing bike then, of course it's going o be expensive. But that doesn't make all bikes expensive.
As for the idea that a road bike will fold as soon as you bunnyhop it 🤣. Naaa, the councils around here love those massive speed cushions. There's one set into Windsor downhill that you can take off and land to flat, even my ~1200g summer wheels have survived several years of that abuse. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but I think you need to revisit your preconceptions about the costs required to get a capable bike.
Monkeyboyjc... where did you get xo1 axs from for 550 quid?
DrP
sram quality makes it unusable as the pivots wears out in in 12 months
Yep, and unserviceable clutches that lose strength. Could almost be tempted otherwise. Prices slightly better than I was expecting, but happy to wait for Shimano. Cables doing just fine in the meantime.
Shimano patents seem to point to wireless shifters but with the battery wired to the mech.
Which maybe means a cheaper mech that's got less to damage, but needs a home for a battery. (Ideal for Ebikes though)
Just ordered mine from Lordgun. Now just got to wait to see if I get nobbled for the vat. If not I’ll be saying Cheers Bozo!
what price did you pay at checkout?
LG seem to add VAT
That’s a decent RRP (let’s not compare rrp vs what someone paid 18 months ago, shall we…) especially considering X01/XX1 axs upgrade kits were £975 rrp at launch.
Should mean it’ll be available for closer to £400 once the world has calmed down a bit.
seems to have been well received by the press so sales gonna be high, not sure this will hit the discounters for a long time. Especially as shimano have nothing close to comparable, more chance of microshift making something. Think Shimano have put their money into ebikes
Suspect there is a smaller number of items for stock as I'm getting very regular email alerts to say item is in stock but when I go to order on the site it changes to get a reminder as it is out of stock - seems to be in stock and then a half hour later it is gone...suspect stock levels are low but demand does seem to be there.
LG added vat to the price shown but not charged. I paid 508 euros...
hmm was super tempted until i realised im also gonna need new cassette, chain, and freehub... so its more like a £750 upgrade for me... waiting for that shimano version!
Just ordered mine from Lordgun. Now just got to wait to see if I get nobbled for the vat. If not I’ll be saying Cheers Bozo!
you almost certainly will end up being charged Vat , import duty and a handling fee on top, I'd expect it to come out at more or less the rrp , possibly more, once all those are taken into account.
I recently (post brexit) bought something from lordgun - took about 4 weeks to arrive, and got charged vat, import duty and handling fee when it landed in this country - not unexpected.
Which is fine tbh - it would simply have been a bonus if not...though I won’t be happy with a 4 week wait!
hmm was super tempted until i realised im also gonna need new cassette, chain, and freehub… so its more like a £750 upgrade for me… waiting for that shimano version!
Any 12s cassette will work, so just get one that matches your current freehub. £50 saved 😉
Just got one of the last ones from Wiggle for £488 (platinum discount..).annoyingly they had 10% off voucher that ran out YESTERDAY!
Will see how it is when it arrives... I'm currently running XO1 mechanical, which is sweet, but...SHINY NEW STUFF!!
DrP
Here's a thought... I've an XO1 rear mech... could i swap the cage/jockey wheels off it, and save a handful of grammes?? Might have a play about making a franken AXS~!!!
DrP
Depends. Might have different cages if X01 is a 10-50t mech. New Eagle mechs are 10-52t.
Hmm..but my cassette is 50t, so not a hugh problem...
DrP
Just watched a video, it’s got an overload feature so it moves on rock strikes so hopefully less likely to get smashed than traditional.
Same as XX1 AXS. From the reviews there genuinely seems to be no difference in function, save for about 80g in weight. Can’t help but wonder if they’ve shot themselves in the foot a bit here. Is an 80g weight reduction worth the extra? Why buy XX/XO1? Are they planning on (mainly) selling those OEM for top line builds?
not read any of this but I'm waiting for the next-gen Di2.
I have the 11spd version of Di2 but if Shimnao manage a (part) wireless 12spd then I'm in.
tomhoward
Same as XX1 AXS. From the reviews there genuinely seems to be no difference in function, save for about 80g in weight.
And for those of us (me included) reticent about smashing mechs, a steel cage might be a plus over the more expensive aluminium
How regular an occurrence is the smashed rear mech though? Bent hangers are definitely popular, but I've not seen a mangled rear mech for a good long time - not saying it doesn't happen but the AXS solution appears to have designed in a bit more capacity to be skelped before it properly fails.
Not arguing the fact they aren't cheap, but they do have a bit more of a design thought in them for helping reduce the likelihood of the mech getting properly mangled than mechanical mechs - it might be something that can be added to the mechanical stuff as it does seem to work.
Price wise I dont think GX AXS will be as cheap as folk are hoping.
My LBS has stock @ £554.
DickBarton
How regular an occurrence is the smashed rear mech though? Bent hangers are definitely popular, but I’ve not seen a mangled rear mech for a good long time
My 11s XTR mech is on it's third bike, so not often. My main experience with mangled mechs has been my only forays into SRAM ownership, had two GX 10s mechs destroy themselves, and one of the early Zees which just exploded and got warrantied.
All that said, it still seems a daft place to put four hundred quid's worth of electronics and motors
I was thinking about upgrading to XX1 AXS as current setup XX1 but what's the point to save 80 grams, I wonder if the XX1 upgrade will come down in price.
All the write ups I've read about GX AXS have been excellent.
Have ordered one of these, managed to get it for 10% off, so £498 ,should be here next week.
Got mine last Friday, day after Launch. 2 rides on it so far and its ace, as the reviews have said, feels far crisper and more consistent than any mechanical Eagle drivetrain I've had. Adds about 70g over the mechanical X01 I took off, which is not much really although the rear mech is CHUNKY! It's still not cheap, but its going to be popular for sure, especially for the OE market on complete bikes next year.
£498
I said up top that £500 was my bite point. Still not sure though, and don't think I'll dive in yet. But If I needed a new mech and shifter I might find that hard to resist.
I bought it too, massive hypocrite that I am. Had made up my mind to go 12s on the big bike anyway, nd it was only a bit extra over X01/XTR ,neither of which seem to be available anyway.
my order was made with wiggle on friday... still no dispatch note or update yet...
WAHHHHH
DrP
ordered thursday, delivered friday, fitted friday night & ridden on saturday,
can echo lawman91s comment about it shifting better than the GX mechanical that came off the bike,
so far loving it
Wiggle seem to have a 2-4 week wait for stock, so although I missed the chance to buy, it also sounds like I wouldn't have got it any time sooner anyway...just as well as I'm not sure I need it other than just owning it for the sake of owning it, at least this way I've got time to have a think and decide if I really need it or not.
How regular an occurrence is the smashed rear mech though? Bent hangers are definitely popular, but I’ve not seen a mangled rear mech for a good long time
Pretty common on MTBs now, a lot of modern mech hangers are so thick/stiff the mech fails first
And for those of us (me included) reticent about smashing mechs, a steel cage might be a plus over the more expensive aluminium
Depends where/how it hits I suppose.
If you made the cage frangible then that might save the linkage which is the bit that seems to get mangled IME.
It's not great whichever part you make sacrificial. If you rip the cage off or bend/break the hanger you've then got a coin toss between the mech surviving and just being launched into the rear wheel/wrapper arround the cassette and being broken anyway.
It'd be nice if they made the parts more repairable/serviceable.
e.g.
A control box with the battery, electronics and a stepper motor that clipped on the back. A threaded rod to drive the linkage, then you could have a 'mech' that was no more complicated or expensive than the (already expensive) GX mech? as is you've got a £250 package of electronics that's scrap when the £100 linkage it's attached to clips a rock.
Those of you that have gone AXS, what did you do with the various holes in the frame where the derailleur cables were routed through now they are no longer needed?
Did you just put a bit of tape over the hole, or have you found some blanking grommets that will fit?
what did you do with the various holes in the frame where the derailleur cables were routed through now they are no longer needed?
I bought a new custom ti frame.... With no holes or cable guides 😁
@thisisnotaspoon, see archer d1x or the cell shifter systems.
Yea, kinda, but in a much lighter and neater package. Doesn't need to be universal either, just think that it looks daft that the cheap breakable bit writes off the expensive bit. When I'm sure it could be repairable.
It arrived today, its a chunky thing, but makes a satisfying buzz when changing gear.
Will get it fitted tomorrow.
My eagle cassette arrived. Bloody hell, it's massive.
Had a fondle of the upgrade kit today, 5 minutes before a guy walked in and bought it. Box isn't as nice as the high end AXS stuff 😉
There are loads on Ebay at rrp £554 in delivery. UK Retailers