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So, we've all seen the pics on the other site huh?
I'm well up for a budget electric shifty thingy!
'Budget' 😉
It was always going to trickle down, surprised it's been this quick though, maybe sales of the XO1/XX1 stuff is a bit slower than expected.
Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease let there be an updated reverb AXS launching alongside it.
Well yes 'budget' is all relative. 'Available' is perhaps are more pertinent word in these times.
Why does the reverb need an update? Can't they just patch the software? IGMC
Why does the reverb need an update? Can’t they just patch the software? IGMC
No 200mm version on the current model.
Good stuff, any idea of cost?
maybe sales of the XO1/XX1 stuff is a bit slower than expected.
Going on how many full X01 AXS groups my LBS are selling at the minute, they really aren't selling slowly! Nice to see the mystery boxes from Insta have leaked already...
@dickbarton my guess would be slightly under double the cost of a 'normal' set up
XO1 upgrade kit RRP is £975 so I reckon £800ish for the GX AXS upgrade kit, the only bit that's different is the mech (and possibly a new battery?) and £150-£200 less for the mech seems about right.
Is that a multitool in the box too? Seems like a strange thing to bundle with a shifter
which site was this on then ?
I was wondering what my 'buy in' price would be. I decided that £500 for mech and shifter would tempt me. But it's no at £800.
Is that a multitool in the box too?
No that is a shatner's bassoon for recaliberating the polarity of the influx signal on the shifter/mech hyperlength frequency
Reportedly only a small amount less than X01 - so not exactly budget wireless for the masses 🙂
Reportedly only a small amount less than X01 – so not exactly budget wireless for the masses 🙂
If I was planning to spend that kind of cash on a group set id probably want to just shell out 150 quid extra and get the better model. I'm not sure there are many folks out there who can afford an 800 quid shifter and mech but not one for 950.
Pre-Covid you could buy the AXS upgrade kit for around £6-700 so if prices stayed like that then £500 for the GX AXS upgrade kit wouldn't have been unusual.
Now though, can't even see the XO1 upgrade kit in stock anywhere, let alone cheaper than RRP!
Perhaps the price difference is more significant for manufacturers speccing it on complete bikes?
Reportedly only a small amount less than X01 – so not exactly budget wireless for the masses 🙂
Whats the point then? Surely people would rather pay a bit extra for the X01 axs then. From personal experience, there's a very big difference in shifting quality between gx and X01 so I know what one I would go for.
If it was for the OEM market, I could understand. But I feel like OEMs will just end up speccing X01 cable rather than GX axs if they're around a similar price point as it'll look better on a spec sheet.
Recently bought a xo shifter and mech for £550, granted it was from the EU so I had taxed and fees to pay in the end (still cheaper then the UK).
You can also get a force axs mech for £280 at the moment so my guess would be a sub £500 upgrade kit for a gx axs.
there’s a very big difference in shifting quality between gx and X01
I wouldn't have thought it will be so noticable so with an axs version though.... The electronics should perfectly shift for you each time, only real difference will be weight and quality of materials. A bit like the di2 difference between ultegra and Dura ace or grx.
I'd suggest wireless looks better on a spec sheet than a higher end cable-operated part - a lot of people are now buying kit for the look and wireless looks far more impressive than XX or X0 rather than GX.
MTB buyers have changed and there are far more nowadays and many of those are all about the look and the latest thing (many are also very good bike riders!), so wireless is going to attract a lot of people.
MTB buyers have changed and there are far more nowadays and many of those are all about the look and the latest thing
Haven't we always been about the look, when it comes to expensive bling - a Paul components rear mech in the 90's was three or four times more expensive than xtr and gave significantly worse performance - but it came in pretty colours!
I've always thought of bikes as affordable Ferrari's.
so more importantly does this mean the price of a standard gx and cassette is coming down!!!
so more importantly does this mean the price of a standard gx and cassette is coming down!!!
LOL good one!
If we have always been about looks then I've completely missed the boat on that one...have been about function though.
Maybe i'm being too cynical, but I believe the MTB industry modus operandi is to subsidise the price for OEMS, make very few spare parts available and inflate the price of replacements for end consumers. Like with ebike motors for instance.
Screw that SRAM nonsense, I want Shimano AXS!
Am I the only one?
I was actually intending on buying the AXS kit, the buy in I can accept for not having to mess around with cables but I snap a few mechs a year and £600 a go is out of the question
wireless is going to attract a lot of people.
Dunno.
Nobody I know IRL is bothered about it.
Introducing a lower range model tends to mean the higher end product goes up in price as much as the lower end one gets discounted so as to keep a reasonable price difference.
I was actually intending on buying the AXS kit, the buy in I can accept for not having to mess around with cables but I snap a few mechs a year and £600 a go is out of the question
I've found that the Overload Clutch does a good job of letting the mech move out of the way. After 14 months my XX1 AXS rear mech has quite a few scrapes but is still working perfectly.
https://support.sram.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017163914-What-is-the-Overload-Clutch-
That said, previously I've found I tend to go through rear mech hangers rather than mechs.
I think they have really missed a trick* with not making the "cable pull" custom tunable to make it compatible with 11 and 10 speed cassettes. I've got a lovely 10 speed cassette that is 200 and something grams, made a noticable improvment to suspension feel. I can climb at walking speed, and hit 20mph on tarmac. I've got no need for a 520% range and the associated issues that come with it.
The Archer thing could manage that - as a pull box on an existing cable mech.
*I mean I can see why, forcing everyone to buy their expensive cassettes and chains.
In theory, there is nothing stopping you running their road AXS mech and 10-36t cassette with the MTB AXS controller if you can get an XDR rather XD freehub for your wheels.
I’ve got a lovely 10 speed cassette that is 200 and something grams, made a noticable improvment to suspension feel
you can get a 250g 11sp cassette for £50, 11 speed chains are £10 (PC1110) - I don't think this conspiracy is working.
Back on topic, that image is everywhere now. Here, Vital, PB, Facebook. Crazy how quick embargoed stuff spreads when one person leaks the info.
you can get a 250g 11sp cassette for £50, 11 speed chains are £10 (PC1110) – I don’t think this conspiracy is working.
I've only kept the 10 beccause I saw no need to change from my nice XT, I've no real objection to 11, as you have rightly pointed out.
GX eagle though, is 450g and £150. Xx1 for 360g and £300+ pounds. Both of these would be notable dowgrade for me, despite extra cost.
In theory, there is nothing stopping you running their road AXS mech and 10-36t cassette with the MTB AXS controller if you can get an XDR rather XD freehub for your wheels.
they seemed to advise against it, or at least claim that the mtb version has additional strength and impact resistance to cope with mtb use. Also didnt know there was a further hub standard...
I agree, in the future cable operated will be seen as the poor man’s shifting no matter how good it is. Maybe not for a while but many people look at 10/11 speed XT/XO1/XTR as a big step down from 12 speed already
I think they have really missed a trick* with not making the “cable pull” custom tunable to make it compatible with 11 and 10 speed cassettes.
Is that really not a thing? Seems an easy thing to implement.
I agree, in the future cable operated will be seen as the poor man’s shifting no matter how good it is. Maybe not for a while but many people look at 10/11 speed XT/XO1/XTR as a big step down from 12 speed already
I'm surprised you've found that. I have lots of geeky bike chat with my riding pals but we almost never talk about transmission (apart from when people's Sram GX mechs kept exploding).
I think it's because you can basically do fine on 10, 11 or 12 speed with the appropriate cassette.
Most of the geek chat seems to be about suspension, tyres & inserts, geometry & bottle cage mounts, FWIW.
but I snap a few mechs a year and £600 a go is out of the question
Few a year? What are you doing to do this? Dont think I've ever snapped a mech, think 1 hanger maybe but a mech?
but I snap a few mechs a year
Really? You must crash a lot?
in over 20 years of riding, I've bent mech hangers but haven't broke a single mech.
I run xx1 axs on my 5010v3 and its got a fair few gouges to the outer parallelogram but still functions without issue.
Interesting that the GX AXS has the battery cover that the prototype axs mechs had that were seen before release.
Price wise I dont think GX AXS will be as cheap as folk are hoping.
please let there be an updated reverb AXS launching alongside it.
My axs reverb was sent in for warranty in January and was told there was no stock until 20th April. I've since been told that stock at the distributor is low and will be for a while.
But I did wonder if there is likley an updated version coming and that being part of the reason why stock was being run down and maybe not replenished until a new version of reverb axs ships... This obviously very wishful thinking but it does line up with the usual spring release dates of new stuff from sram.
chakaping
Nobody I know IRL is bothered about it.
I don't see the problem that it solves, really. You lose one cable, in exchange for a lot of expense, and you now have a 3/4/500 quid mech hanging out, ready to get smashed.
I get the 'perfect shift every time thing, but my current cabled setups give me that already.
I don't think that it would work well for 10 speed mostly because of the size of the largest cog, the b tension is unlikely to have enough adjustment to go from 36 to 51
I don’t see the problem that it solves, really. You lose one cable, in exchange for a lot of expense, and you now have a 3/4/500 quid mech hanging out, ready to get smashed.
Yep. Innovation for the sake of innovation to create a solution to a problem that doesn't exist!
The fact that there's not a single article official anywhere about this means there's almost certainly an embargo and it will be released with a full review very soon
never realised this forum is full of mech smashers....who knew 🤷♂️
I really want it... But it's completely pointless... I'm often as amazed how well my peasant level xt m8000 11 speed works... But AXS is so damn cool.
I’m often as amazed how well my peasant level xt m8000 11 speed works… But AXS is so damn cool.
Shimano 11sp here too, with Sunrace cassettes.
It just works and allows me to spend my money on stuff that affects how my bike actually rides.
No one needs it, it’s definitely innovation for the sake of innovation, but I’d be willing to bet most of us will be riding around with wireless mechs in 10 years, if not 5.
You can happily boil water in a pan to make a brew, ultimately a kettle does the job more ergonomically. It’s just nicer to use.
Even the most ardent tinkerers don’t love indexing gears. I service my bikes meticulously and I hate how mechs never stay perfectly indexed long. Electronics will sort that.
No chance am I paying double the cost of a high end analogue setup. But when it comes down, and it will, I’ll be all over it. Because it’s progress. And it’s better.
The scary thing about GXS level AXS for me is not the snapping it off, it's that after two years all the pivots will have got so sloppy the mech will be essentially useless, then you have to find another £500. I like the idea of electronic gears I can afford (which at £800, I definitely can't) but not SRAM electronic gears I have to afford every few months.
This will be interesting to see what it actually costs. I’m really looking forward to shimano’s response. It’s been a long time coming but can’t be far away
I've only smashed one mech in 10 years thanks to a flying rock but I still wouldn't want to spend more than £100 on a replacement. I couldn't even see the point in replacing the smashed xt so went slx which was a few grams more and much cheaper.
The scary thing about GXS level AXS for me is not the snapping it off, it’s that after two years all the pivots will have got so sloppy the mech will be essentially useless
Strong point.
Mechs tend to have a working lifespan of two or three years IME, sometimes just a few months if I **** them on a rock or root. Just imagine that sinking feeling of having wrecked a £50 mech, but multiplied by 10.
I suspect AXS will mainly be purchased by riders who don't tend to crash or ride too-technical trails.
That's not meant to sound condescending, I know some contributors here are quite into having nice things - which is fine - so long as they don't extrapolate from their own experience to say electric gears will be suitable for everyone else.
I’d be willing to bet most of us will be riding around with wireless mechs in 10 years, if not 5.
Nah. Maybe on road bikes, where mech damage is much more rare and lifespan longer. But still probably nah.
Nah. Maybe on road bikes, where mech damage is much more rare and lifespan longer. But still probably nah.
I remember people saying the same thing about suspension.
Bar the gravel cx crew how many people do you see without a fork on the trails now?
This is a pet peeve about the Mtb community, there seems to be a subtext where it’s acceptable to hate on expensive components and coupled with the underlying sentiment that all riders who have the more expensive gear are either clueless or low skilled.
I assume to keep cost down everyone should use thumb shifters, short cages and no clutches too?
That said, the price is prohibitive for xx1 axs to me. But you pay your money you have your choice. I’d be willing to give gx axs a try despite being an ardent shimano fan.
Provided the whole package is sub 500 quid.
munrobiker
Free MemberThe scary thing about GXS level AXS for me is not the snapping it off, it’s that after two years all the pivots will have got so sloppy the mech will be essentially useless, then you have to find another £500. I like the idea of electronic gears I can afford (which at £800, I definitely can’t) but not SRAM electronic gears I have to afford every few months.
Nail on the head from me
I’ve had xx1 axs
Sloppy pivots on the axs mech caused it not shift properly and had so much play, wouldn’t stay in the biggest cog or constantly skipped and generally felt crappy by the end
It was warrantied luckily as it was only 11 months old
I had bashed it a few times but nothing out of the ordinary at all it had a few scrapes like any other mech I’ve had
I sold it when I got it back, it was excellent when I had it, and the lack of cables was very nice
But in the meantime I went and bought a gx eagle new style mech to tied me over whilst it was off for warranty and was blown away (not like the crap gen1 gx shite) by it, crisp smooth easy to setup and not finniky like sram of old eagle
I’ve now got a x01 new style mechanical and again even nicer when matched with a xx1 shifter, shifts perfectly and far less worrying smashing it up if i do
Would I have axs again? Yes, would I pay stupid money for it? No, it’s no better shifting wise than the new style mechanical eagle IMO
I remember people saying the same thing about suspension.
That's not a great analogy really, there wasn't something that did almost exactly the same job as suspension for a fraction of the price. And didn't need to be kept charged.
This is a pet peeve about the Mtb community, there seems to be a subtext where it’s acceptable to hate on expensive components and coupled with the underlying sentiment that all riders who have the more expensive gear are either clueless or low skilled.
Well my point was that not spunking my wad on AXS allows me to focus on other expensive components. I might well have posher suspension than some who've bought AXS.
Shimano will surely launch their version soon, I can't see anyone wanting the hassle of di2 cables and batteries when AXS is so clean and easy to set up.
"I remember people saying the same thing about suspension."
That’s not a great analogy really, there wasn’t something that did almost exactly the same job as suspension for a fraction of the price. And didn’t need to be kept charged.
How about droppers? How many years did we have "a QR clamp is just as good"?
How about droppers? How many years did we have “a QR clamp is just as good”?
They were! See!
How about droppers? How many years did we have “a QR clamp is just as good”?
Nope. Droppers offered a huge functional advantage.
You need to think of something that costs multiple times as much as an existing product, but essentially does the same job.
Some possibilities: carbon rims, ceramic bearings, ti hardtail frames.
That'll be the Hite-Rite versus the dropper seatpost then... although admittedly the Hite-Rite was gone by a good 12 years before droppers came round...
The charging thing is a bit of a red herring as well unless you are shifting constantly per ride - I do a charge every 3 months and bike is used 4 times a week so not just sitting around not moving.
I remember people saying the same thing about suspension.
Maybe. But this isn’t like rigid vs suspension. Or singlespeed vs geared. It’s more like damping on suspension being controlled by knobs, levers and cable controlled lockouts… or electrically, with microcontrollers and wireless handlebar mounted buttons. I mean, it’s cool, and has many advantages… but not buying into it, especially as regards the cost to benefit ratio, is a pretty normal reaction.
I heard the same arguments against disc brakes. Decent v's were just as good apparently, that's why pretty e everyone now runs discs.
I'm not going to buy now, but wireless is the future, if nothing else, it'll improve frame design.
Both my bikes have GX on them and it’s never caused me any issues that a quick turn of the barrel adjuster didn’t solve , I’d much rather they spent some time developing a bottom bracket that lasted and cranks that didn’t require a breaker bar to take off .
i will be interested to see what price point this comes in at on full builds and if manufacturers feel that wireless shifting will sell more bikes than say a more expensive fork , back to the days of a fancy rear mech but budget everything else .
Lots of ‘I don’t want or need it so why should anyone’ in this thread. Innovation is good, stop complaining. What interests me most is how Shimano respond to it.
I think it’s cool. Would I like it? Yes, will I buy it? Probably not.
Slx Di2 would be great. It's already 12sp anyway
Not sure I've seen any complaints, just normal reasons why people wouldn't buy it. It's definitely cool and I'd like to try it but I wouldn't want to spend more than £100 quid on a mech.
I really really want a cable free cockpit.
Wireless gears and dropper, and internal brake hose.
However, at the current prices, I'm sticking with my 1x10 externally routed frame for a while.
Lots of ‘I don’t want or need it so why should anyone’ in this thread.
Fair comment.
There's just so many better ways to spend money, I can't help myself. Sorry.
It's just another nice expensive toy to play with. Much like most other components, the most expensive ones aren't needed but plenty folk enjoy spending that cash and having a bike that's speced up to the absolute max.
Some boring old middle aged farts here seem to think that if they don't deem it worth the money then no one else should. Somethings worth is only ever subjective so why even argue about it?
This forum is an incredibly dull place. It's the same users posting the same old drivel in every thread.
Threads about axs just go the same way every time. Just attracts the same dobbers who just want to chime in saying they won't spend the money and 9 speed is fine...
Electronic shifting is the future for sure but not according to out of touch stw hermits who seem to be here 24/7 ready to piss and moan. Maybe try take that 9 speed bike outside more often 🙂
Yeah tis a shame. I an quite hyped for it, hence me starting the post!
Yeah same here, I'm really keen to hear the price.
I've got a feeling the price difference between xx1 axs and gx axs isn't going going to be quite like the difference between mechanical groups...
But if the price for a shifter and mech alone is a good bit below 500 I reckon I'd get a set for my other bike.
Wait for the vitriol when they discontinue mechanical XX1 and XO1...
haha I know...
I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen of xx1/x01 is electric only and mechanical versions only on gx down.
Pretty sure the top tier sram red road group is electric only now. Stand to reason that trend will continue in mtb.
I seem to recall an interview with one of the sram big wigs and they implied that electronic was a big part of their plans going forward.
Do you think the battery will fit the X01 or XX1 mechs? Or will the battery for them fit this? If those pics are accurate, it does appear to be a different battery design, unless that is just cosmetic covering...
I hope we’re not going to be forced down this route. I don’t want my bike to rely on a battery. Sooner or later I’m going to forget to recharge it. Nothing against technology. My little GPS computer is great for example, but if it fails it doesn’t ruin the ride.
Do you think the battery will fit the X01 or XX1 mechs? Or will the battery for them fit this? If those pics are accurate, it does appear to be a different battery design, unless that is just cosmetic covering…
The battery will be the exact same and isn't changing. All the sram electronic groupset use the exact same battery across the road and mountain bike groupsets.
I have etap on my road bike and take one of the batteries from the road bike with me as a spare when I go out on the mountain bike.
The battery does look different in the photo of the GX AXS stuff, but it's actually a hard plastic cover that I suppose is meant to act as a sort of protector for the battery.
When the very first photos of X01/XX1 AXS stuff came out before release they showed a pre-production mech that had the same battery cover thats seen on the GX AXS mech above.
But for whatever reason the final production XX1 axs stuff didn't have the battery cover.
Heres a photo from 2019 of a pre-production prototype mech with the same battery cover
This forum is an incredibly dull place. It’s the same users posting the same old drivel in every thread.
What like reposting that picture? 😉
Having had both road and mtb Di2, and now running AXS, I’m a convert. The shift is fantastic and customisable enough to make it feel and shift pretty much how you want it to. Had no reliability issues and the battery lasts for aaaaaages.
It makes for a lovely clean cockpit and when you have lots of internet cable routing it saves hassle there too!
(Obviously if I hadn’t bought AXS I’d have been able to afford a lawnmower!😂)
It makes for a lovely clean cockpit and when you have lots of internet cable routing it saves hassle there too!
That'll be the next thing after electronic shifting is mainstream - your bike will require an Internet connection to work 😁
D’oh! Autocorrect fail! Internal, not internet! 😂