[Closed] Gucci Hardtail vs. Sorted full suss as only bike.

Much as I love my full-sus, it is prone to smoothing out the local trails (on the South Downs) too much. I don't think it gives me much extra skill compensation beyond softening heavy landings compared to my near identically equipped and aggro geometry hardtail. But it's incredible when let loose on faster gnarlier descents.

I'd go and ride the Bird and see how it feels. I like having one of each though! 😉

I’ve recently moved darn sarf and have found that I’ve ridden my steel hardtail way more than my full sus

I’m not fit but it’s more than enough of a skills compensator to do me. If it was me I’d find it hard to settle for 2nd best. Full sus is ace but a proper hardtail is lovely.

I'd go with the BTR - you said your self it's the best bike you've ridden. If you did buy another bike, you'd always regret it.....

+ a hardtail is cheaper to maintain, less likely to go wrong, slower to get 'out of date' with manufacturers 'improvements', a nicer build will last longer and won't break as easily..... Etc. Etc
Etc.

monkeyboyjc - Member
I'd go with the BTR - you said your self it's the best bike you've ridden. If you did buy another bike, you'd always regret it

+1

It is more of a head to toe workout riding the hardtail. I don't think my knees notice though. It's the ankles/feet when hucking to flat, the core has to do more, as do the hands.

Does the BTR build work out cheaper if you buy a Bird hardtail, swap the parts and sell the Bird frame? I think everything bar the lower headset cup will fit.

Buy the BTR or forever regret it.

I keep going back to the HT idea, then I wake up in the morning on days like this and feel my back is not quite right and decide to keep going with the Full Suss idea. Unless you live somewhere real smooth then a full sus is just way more versatile

hands down the best bike I've ever ridden.

I'd buy that then...

But I do question why it has to be a min £2.5k build, at least initially, why not cannibalise your current bike just to get it up and running. Once you have a working bike you can do the whole incremental upgrades/vanity bling thing by degrees... Helps ease you into it.

I went to the same demo but rode a different bike. I'm now in the process of selling my keeper of a bike with front bounce to buy a rigid plus "zero skills compensator". But it will suit the riding I do.

Buy the BTR or forever be wondering what if?

The obvious answer to this dilemma is to buy a Pinner.

Get a cheaper build on the BTR and spend money on a physio / chiropractor/ osteopath

Do it.

I sold my Bnshee Rune for a Ti Switchback and never really looked back. I had a steel version as well as the Rune, and I just rode the Stanton all of the time.

If you like the BTR that much, just do it.

If you loved it after riding it that much then just go for it perhaps?

In terms of cost, bling bits aren't everything, you don't have to make it that expensive surely?

Sram GX 11 speed works well enough for me to not even consider a higher groupset. Brakes you can get something decent in either Sram or Shimano that mean you don't need anodised Hope bling brakes etc.

Wheels - ageee it's good to get as good as possible with a compromise of strength / lightweight - but Dt Swiss etc make some great wheels for not too much cost.

Forks - even the Rockshox revelation is now on a pike chassis (35mm stanchions), so you don't necessarily need to spend the world on them.

Personally I prefer full suss (I'm in an Aeris 145!) - I was at Cwmcarn yesterday and some of the braking ruts on Cafell were massive. Yes you could ride it on a hardtail but it'd be slower and you'd get beaten up quite a bit. I was happy to carry the extra weight up to the top because I had an absolute blast on the way down.

Test rides should sort out in your mind what you should go for!

Definitely the HT but wit the frame starting at £1000 I don't think you'll be able to bling it up that much for £2500 overall, it's surprisingly expensive buying all your bits separately.

Just looked up the btr - flip me that's expensive for a hardtail frame. I guess you need to decide if you want a really niche / special steel hardtail or not. £2500 isn't going to get you a very bling build with a frame cost of £1050 to start with. Even if you go with their lowest ranger build at £2800 it's not got anything special on that - it's even got only Deore brakes for that cost. Although it does have handbuilt wheels.

I think on say the Aeris you reference you could have GX Eagle and a lyric plus probably Sram Guides for that sort of cost.

Alternatively there are other long hardtails out there, both steel and aluminium. Bird Zero am has just been revised with a longer reach and boost rear end. Cotic / Stanton both also make very nice steel frames that I believe are a bit cheaper to start with but are still 'steel is real'.

If you love the ranger and want it bling I think you either need to up your budget, or upgrade it gradually over time. Spend lots of your budget on a decent fork and wheels at the outset but go budget on the rest - then upgrade bits as funds allow.

In the words of Roxette...

Plan would be yo sell off my old bike rather than transfer - it's 26 inch so more hassle than it's worth to transfer.

Gunz makes a fair point about it not being bling for 2500.

I meant above Deore.

Bits wear out. you can upgrade to bling as you go. Deore brakes on the wife's bike are great. If I wasn't a tart about brake hose angles, I'd have them on mine.

What do you need a skills compensator for? Are you racing, or being left behind by mates who won't wait for you? If it's an absolute joy to pick a line on the BTR rather than smash through without thinking on the Bird, does it matter if you were 4% slower?

I'd still get the BTR though. It's the kind of individual frame that inspires pride of ownership every time you pop into the garage.

It's not always about speed.... comfort can play a massive factor too.

Fact Weeksy.

Gunz I think you speak great wisdom.

Also, I do hate maintaining pivots and bearings and cleaning.

Just seems crazy to spend that much on a hardtail.

Still, it's an investment.

Also, I do hate maintaining pivots and bearings and cleaning.

Just because a bike is a HT it doesnt mean you can just ride in the slop and then abandon it. Brakes, BB's, wheel bearings, chains, mechs etc all still require attention, so do headsets etc.

I've swapped pivot/suspension bearings before, but it's one afternoon per year, not every 2nd weekend. Once a year is hardly a massive pain.

I had a BB die on me when i pulled the bike off the rack at the weekend. However, this was on my HT, 10 mins later it was swapped. It's lasted 13 months, which for the generic one that came fitted on the bike, i'm happy with that.

What about a shorter travel, slightly bling full sus?

I've been a gucci hardtail person for a while.

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I've gone through a few wonderful hardtails, and I've bought a few acceptable full-sus bikes because it's what you're meant to have and hardtails are stupid. The expensive hardtails fill me with joy, while the FS bikes ooze sadness. 🙂

Still, it's an investment.

Eerm sorry to break this to you pal, but bikes aren't an investment...they are money vacuums.

Get the BTR, if it doesn't work out.. sell it, and move on. Bikes aren't forever.

Have you ridden any other really good hardtails?

OP - if you are considering either a HT or a 150mm travel FS would it be worth thinking about your riding in more detail and what you want from it and pick the most appropriate bike? Maybe you'd be best off on a short travel FS?

If maintenance cost of HT vs FS is an issue then consider the replacement costs on pivot bearings are a lot less than the replacement costs on high end components that take the same punishment whatever type of bike they are on.

One other thought to play devils advocate - no doubt the BTR is a great frame but how long and hard did you ride it for? IME the feel of a bike is very subjective and has as much to do with how I feel on the day. It's easy to convince yourself that its the best thing ever when you're full of energy, the sun is shining and the trails are dry. less so on a gloomy day with a headwind and heavy legs 🙂

Hardtail. Every. Single. Time (for me, anyway).

If you want comfort, buy a sofa. If you want fun, buy a bike you'll love. You're only here once so just buy whatever you fancy and if it turns out to be wrong, punt it on and get something else.

edit- and this,

I've gone through a few wonderful hardtails, and I've bought a few acceptable full-sus bikes because it's what you're meant to have and hardtails are stupid. The expensive hardtails fill me with joy, while the FS bikes ooze sadness.

BTR. Wanted one for ages and will have one when the current bikes age sufficiently to get it past my wife! That said I currently have a Tallboy3 with a 140mm fork and plus tyres and it is brilliant for surrey hills stuff. It slots nicely into that space of taking a bit of the manic bouncy bouncy back end out that you get with a hardtail but not providing the sofa like ride you get from a 150mm bike. It goes up hills pretty smartly as well.

But if you do buy a BTR and you're surrey hills way with an xl can I swing a leg over it 😀

I went through this exact thing when I bought my Chromag.

for the money I spent i could have gotten a decent full sus but I WANTED the Chromag.

...how you describe yourself...- sounds a bit like the full suspension bike is the better fit for you!
I bike a low cost 29 inch hardtail and a low cost 27.5 inch full suspension bike. Enjoy both.
With the hardtail you have to stay concentrated all the time in the trail.
You talk about a "skill compensator" - and yes the full suspension bike is a bit of such an compensator. And at the same time it's lots of fun!
The BTR hardtail looks beautiful.
But buy for 2.5 k a full suspension bike!

Some bikes are tools for a job, some move above that in to special possession territory. The special ones are special so get the BTR.

i would go with the BTR as its the bike you really want( i want one too ) . i used to have a banshee spitfire and before that i had a giant reign .Now i only have the steel Onza jackpot i built up a few months back ( a little lie i do have a carbon cube xc bike too but i always take the steel hardtail these days) and i love it more than any other bike i have owned , i dont miss the spitfire at all for my riding. yes i'm a little sore after rides but its worth it , good hardtails ride beautifully , keep you on your toes and i think make the ride more engaging.

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Bling is meaningless in the great scheme of things.

A nice frame will become your best mate.

Hardtails rule dude.
🙂

My 2 bikes are very similar to the two you want, I have a Stanton Slackline and a Canyon Spectral, both with fairly average components.

The Canyon is better for tougher terrain but I tend to have more fun on the Stanton on most trails. If you do a lot of techy riding then I'd be tempted by the full suss, otherwise I'd for for the BTR.

I also think your technique adjusts when you ride hardtails a lot.
You tend to get lazy on full suss and stay seated. Hardtails require a little unweighting here and there when just riding along.

It's just different.

I would fully recommend getting the bike that excites you, not the one that seems right on paper.

The little things about a posh frame are nice - I really liked the little things on my Ti Stanton like Stanton stamped in the seatstay bridge or the logo stamped in the yoke. It just made it feel a bit more special.

I've since sold it and bought a Transiton whoch I really like but it feels much more like a generic bike that I don't think will be treasured. The BTR will feel special. I know some people aren't that bothered by that sort of stuff, but I guess people buying posh hardtails often are.

As soon as funds allow, I'll be buying another hardtail.

If anyone ever tells you the hardtail is dead then you should slap them in the face with a wet fish.

that's from Shan steel hardtail review 2014:

https://dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/production-privee-shan-hammered.html

I mostly bike full suspension trail bike. And love it.

A friend of mine has a Shan steel hardtail - and he loooves it.

Not too familiar with Production Privee bikes - but they build now steel full suspension bikes - additional to the hardtails -as well.
But appears that they are not such "killer bikes" like the original hardtails...

Important detail - maybe: my friend with his "Shan hardtail" is an extremely good and skilled biker.
(I'am not)

Just an FYI - if you get one of the new Bird Zero AM Boost hardtails and have them fit a 130mm fork and a Works -2 deg headset (I posted them the one I bought) you will have an alloy hardtail with almost exactly the same geometry as the BTR - just without the steel feel but some less weight.

And then if you want to get the BTR frame, sell the Zero AM frame and headset and swap everything else across. So it allows you to test the concept of having a hardtail like that as your lone bike and probably the cheapest way to get the BTR built up with nice parts.

dumbbot you make a valid point.

Weeksy I think it's more the hassle or maintenance than the cost.

I just wanna ride and it to work, rather than fettling ad nauseum.

If they didn't screw up the weight distribution I'd happily go hub gear.

Think I'll get the BTR and fork out for an Orange for my 40th.

I've gone back and forth between hardtails and full sus over the years. I don't think I could justify more than one MTB at a time.

Earlier this year, I dipped my toe into the full sus waters again with a second hand Transition Scout frame and swapped over the parts from my old Soul. I didn't set out to buy a used one, but it made the changeover a lot cheaper / lower risk than getting a £1,500+ new frame.

It's been great to try something different, but I think the newer frame's geometry and dropper may have made as much impact as the rear bounce. It's not that the suspension isn't lovely, but there are other things that are good about it that could be good on another hardtail.

I've got a custom road frame coming soon and could certainly see myself with something like the BTR in future. I'd add that the market for a used custom frame is likely to be limited.