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IHN - added to contact list
Wilko1999 - need your email address.
We sent out a "Cranham Update" notice to local mountain bike shops last night. Owners have been asked if they could print off and stick in a prominent place in their premises.
Natural England should be erecting some notices in the Woods as well soon saying we are in discussions about future MTB use.
Of course - jameswilkinson30@hotmail.com
Cheers!
Spent 2 hours on a recce around the area today, and mainly on Buckholt Road. Two from Bigfoot were finishing off the trail mapping also I understand. Bumped into a few riders and also a group from Gloucester City CC. They weren't overjoyed at hearing the news of what is going on but agreed that in the best interests of future agreements, they would refrain from taking their rides to Cranham until further notice. Also spotted loads more of the A5 warning notices around. More than I originally thought there were. NE have informed me that they will supplement/replace these with notices stating our current negotiations. Lecky was nice on the way back though...
Thanks to all those who have contacted us wanting to be on our contact list and offering assistance when we need it. I'm sure there are more out there who would benefit from being kept upto date with our progress. Us is referring to CC-CC and Bigfoot at this stage.
We have requested another site meeting with Natural England as early as possible to actually look at a section of the tracks and demonstarte their minimal impact on the area.
Cheers Roger, you are a legend mate!
Pls add me to the list - thanks for the great work you're doing!!
Will.j.newellATgmailDOTcom
Roger,
May be worth re-sending the email about access to CC-CC as I am a member and have not received an email from them about this subject and don't really visit their website.
This will then hit more of the user base and should prevent us needing to tell members when they are seen on the trails during recce days.
I am not sure what Bigfoot have done but this may also be the same
I have been using CC-CCs MTB (and ROAD occasionally) Yahoo groups to communicate the situation, and some information is on the home page of www.cc-cc.co.uk. We can't obviously get everyone captured via email but word will spread eventually. Our realistic objective is to demonstrate to NE and any concerned landowners that we can do our best to get messages out to riders and I believe we have a good network developed already. I have 25 individual riders on email now, about 4 clubs and 8 local MTB shops.
Bigfoot also have a statement about Cranham on the news section of their website.
Rog - you got AshtonMTB on that list? Not sure how often they are over that way.
B you got any contacts with Ashton?? No, not on my list yet. Will Google them as well.
Could you add me to your email list please...ride there with a few friends so need to keep the peace for the future.
Good work.
Ashton only know the way round when I show them 🙂
Worth letting them know though, I've dropped their Appropriate Adult a mail.
Cheers IHN.
Appropriate Adult.. Last time I heard that there was a Fred West docu drama on the telly. Jim Bowen in the woods is bad enough!!!
Still no response from NE today. Gonna give them a call tomorrow to make sure they are still on the planet. Think one of my contacts could be on leave but not certain. Momentum is our key if we want riders to support us and stay away in these early days.
Will be on another recce this Saturday seeing if I can flush our some more who are not aware of the situation.
Hi,Im the "Appropriate Adult" IHN refers to at AshtonMTB, but as he says we only usually ride it when he is guiding, but please keep me updated through my e-mail address brianDOTbunnATvirginDOTnet and I will keep our group updated
Hi Graham.
Not sure if you have my details already but if not here they are
mike.farrugia@hotmail.co.uk
I ride regulary with the Bramblers MTB group from Bussage and will spread the word to the boys and girls.
Any support you need just ask and i /we will try to help out in anyway that we can.
Needless to say all the people that are getting behind this are all doing a fantastic job. Fingers crossed that we can come to some agreement on permisive trails in Cranham, its such a great spot and its our "local bit" of singletrack.
Best Regards
Mike
It's been a bit quiet on the update front recently as we are still awaiting a response from Natural England over the trail maps they now have. A big thank you to all riders and groups who have made re-arrangements to their ride routes as a result of this issue. Wherever you have been riding we hope you have still been having some fun. Days starting to get a tad chilly now though!!!
I know CC-CC has XC routes on its website if you fancy seeing what else is about the area. There may be something new to try in the short term??
http://www.cc-cc.co.uk/content/routes.php
As soon as we hear from NE we'll post here and send out to our email contacts. Cheers.
I had a response from Natural England today. They have been discussing our trail network with relevant land owners and will be in a position to put forward the tracks for potential agreement in the New Year. I have no indication at this stage of the number of trails we are talking about though. We'll keep the pressure on.
Hope you all have a great Christmas and New Year.
Cheers, Roger.
Nice one for the update Rog.
B.
Just seen on Bigfoots website a recent photo of new signage that Natural England had agreed to erect now we are in negotiations. It is formal recognition that we are all talking now. Happy Cranham Crimbo to all of you. Roger.
Happy New Year to all.
Took a stroll through the main tracks over Christmas with the kids and was happy to see (although it pains me to say) that I saw no MTBers riding the trails. There were a few fresh tyre tracks though. Thanks to all those who have made the effort to divert their winter rides from this area. It is a credit to us as a local biking community. No pain, no gain as they say. So the new year is hear and we are eager to hear what Natural England have to say!!!
I went for a walk today with my kids and it was strange to not see any tyre marks. Although there were a lot of horse prints off the bridleways and I did see a crosser tyre mark near the stream.
Theyve cut loads of the foliage down all over the place and the racetrack foliage looks thinner than a fasting anorexic!!
do you know what they are building at the sawmill?
Just checked the local council planning website (stroud) and they are building a fancy house and a lake in the grounds next to the sawmill.
Case of NIMBYism?
Case of NIMBYism?
yes.
[url= http://www.stroud.gov.uk/docs/planning/planning_application_view_binary.asp?URL=%2FWAM%2Fdoc%2FDrawing-735947.pdf?extension=.pdf%26id=735947%26location=VOLUME2%26contentType=application%2Fpdf%26pageCount=1%26appid=1001 ]Stroud planning link[/url]
dont know if this will work but im assuming the blue line would be there ownership boundary...
house does look nice though...Ricard and Catriona obviously have a LOT of money if they can afford to do this
S.10/1513/FUL
planning application no
Wonder if they'll try to divert Buckholt road in due course 😉
Can we expect to see this on 'Grand Designes'?
and if so Who's up for a bit of filming interupting 8)
I have a feeling it may not be a home for them and is going to be a money maker for them!
As long as they don't try to sell it in the Spring / Summer / Autumn....
I can see it now -
Beautiful architect designed residence with 100 acres of fast flowy singletrack complete with potentially very busy cafe / bike shop retail unit potential at end of driveway!
This may not be the PC thing, but is English Nature don't pull there finger out and come back with an answer then i can see me just riding in the woods regardless. I wouldn't want to feel that somebody was taking the piss.
wait a minute, just noticed the date on that planning application, 28/7/2010! i can't remember ever seeing a notice put up?
I was under the impression that councils were duty bound to ensure adequate advertising of all plans?
and looking through the various applications why do they say not advertised? Maybe i am being cynical but when councils are meant to allow the public the opportunity to object makes me wonder. Then throw in that the woodland was sold after the planning application was submitted.
as for them having money,
their old house
[url= http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/old-vicarage/hawkesbury/badminton/gl9-1bn/9663487 ]The old vicarage, Badminton[/url]
hoooweeee this continues to get more and more interesting. thanks for the updates roger.
There is a business registered as cranham woods. Says its a real estate business registered in the tysons names. Found it online ages ago but cant remember where. I also noted several other business names registered.
been a bit bored,
so
[url= http://www.3paper.co.uk/profile/richard-tyson ]Meet Mr Tyson[/url]
also a director at
[url= http://bizzy.co.uk/uk/02136125/wingpark ]Wingpark Ltd. [/url]
His wife
Catriona,
[url= http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/905415113 ]obviously likes to stay busy. [/url]
I am getting the impression that money isn't really an issue, not when the last house sold for 2million.
So to continue,
[url= http://www.stroud.gov.uk/docs/planning/planning_application_view_binary.asp?URL=%2FWAM%2Fdoc%2FApplication%20Form-643059.pdf?extension=.pdf%26id=643059%26location=VOLUME2%26contentType=application%2Fpdf%26pageCount=6%26appid=1001 ]applicaton form[/url]
If i read this, they didn't own the land and submitted an application on the back of an existing, and looking at timescales i am assuming expired application made by the previous land owner.
Disclaimer time - this may not be the correct planning app (does seem likely though) as i was bored on friday lunchtime looking through stroud dc planning apps
PS Roger, has portway been mentioned to EN, dont know whether to try to get them as recognised routes and risk loosing them or not to mention them and risk not getting an offical trail on them
PPS would your correctiveroger name be from a certain group from chelt way...if so when are you and mr hazle up bushy next id love to come and help out in the next week or 2, baby coming in 4 so would be better sooner!
v666ern, the next bushy dig day is on the 15th - see the facebook group for details 🙂
Dave
Alfabus, thanks chap...um any chance you can email them over... bigvern52 at hotmail.com
i dont do facebook...there i said it its out there! which is going to make keeping up to date with this tricky but deffo want to help out and im free this sunday
Its a dig day for the XC course, Alex and Barnaby are leading this one, and I'll be doing the next one in February (I can't make this one).
The XC is coming on nicely, I marked the whole climb out in November, and we made good progress clearing and bench cutting in December - there are a couple of hundred metres of trail which are rideable now (albeit pretty technical and quite hard! lots of switchbacks and tight tree sections). Hopefully we'll push it all the way to the top before the ground dries out and gets too hard to dig.
Meet at 10am at the car park and stay as long as you can.
Dave
edit: Sorry Rog, this is a bit off topic for your cranham thread 🙂 any excuse to plug the XC track at bushy!
Yeah, we've got a dig booked on the 15th at 10am. All welcome to come and help. Bring a spade. I'll add you to the email list, but haven't been using it for a while.
Edit - Looks like Dave beat me to the reply... Bigvern - YGM
If anyone's looking for ride inspiration that stays away from Cranham...
Had a nice email yesterday directed at NE for its heavy handed approach in trying to stop us riding in the woods. Awaiting NEs response. The banter about the Tysons is a bit unnecessary really as thsir land is just part of the bigger issue. Yes I will be pushing NE for an update soon again. I have no reason to believe at this stage they are purposely delaying things. Roger.
Fair enough Rog - I suppose you got to expect it on STW to a degree, especially as this has distrupted some of the best riding in the area.
Personally I don't mean them (Tysons or NE) any harm, we just want to continue riding where there has been riding for many years.
You know we're behind it as no one's riding up there but even I'm itching to get back up there.
I'm sure we all look forward to a swift and positive response from NE.
Bushwacked said it all there really!
Got a new bike on its way and am going to have to choose routes round the side of them to get to Painswick beacon. No biggie but can't wait to ride the shrine descent again!
db100, sorry to bring bad news, but unless the Tysons have a change of heart the Shrine is closed, NE have no control over their section of the woods. If you look at the plans linked to in their planning application their plot is marked.
Now how the Tysons or NE intend to keep bikes out if that is their decision, i have't got a clue.
As for delaying things, it is winter and it makes sense to keep out of the woods at this time of year anyway, the tracks just don't respond well to riding through the mud season. Now when the tracks dry out and the blue bells start to poke through my attitude might change.
We requested an update from NE this week and set out a schedule for agreeing to ride in the area again. We have been informed that NE are meeting up with the local land agent "...towards the end of January so we should be able to give you a decision soon after."
As ever please keep up the good work and steer clear of the woods. Thanks again for all your great support.
good work chap - fingers crossed
sorry about the earlier banter, for what its worth 'mr' looks like a big time lawyer so id stay well away from poking them with a big stick!
Racetrack looks wrecked anyway at present.Rest looks slick as hell.Thats seen from the road on a road bike.Cranham takes a on time to dry out at the best of times.
Maybe we should buy horses they are still charging through there Hay Ho.
Yeah, Racetrack looked like it was a mess when I went past in the car recently. May have to go for a walk sometime and check it out. Hopefully it's only superficial.
Hopefully it's only superficial.
I have had a look and it appears to be mainly wood on the top, but some of the debris is quite big. It wouldn't be that hard to clear the majority, might be hard to clear some though.
Racetrack wouldn't take long to clear when we get OK to go in. Was up there on Saturday morning for a run and checked out Shrine, One Who Waits and the Racetrack. Was good to see the Shrine has been left alone by bikers but at the same time sad to see it covered in leaves and "resting".
Bumped into 2 riders on the GP2 and stopped and had a chat. One lives in the Birdlip area and was unaware of the current issues regarding biking. I did not see any signage on the Tyson's plot to inform uninformed riders.
Hope there is some news soon fromNE as I would hate to miss the first bluebells of 2012.
Cheers for chatting to the two riders. Hope they moved off the track straight away. Any signage has been posted on already existing Natural England information boards.
We received an update from Natural England on 27.01.2012. Our main NE contact met up with the local land agent for the woodland and said:
"had a very useful meeting yesterday and discussed the possibilities for cycling in Buckholt Wood. We have both come away with a few points to follow up.
When we’ve done that we can send you further information on how we see the way forward. We anticipate we will then be in a position to meet in early March."
Granted it is not a formal confirmation of how we may work together in the future but I still believe it is positive progress. We will be pushing for a meeting with them before their requested early March. This is quite some time away and riders who have so far been great at supporting our voluntary avoidance of the area might start getting itchy cleats.....
Cheers, Roger.
Sorry I've come to this quite late. Like some others here I have been riding solo and with other mates in the area since 1987. I have been steering clear so far and will keep an eye on the forum. E-m address in my profile. Many thanks Roger.
Don
Don, you're down on the mail list for updates. Cheers.
Next meeting with NE definitely going ahead first week of March. Representations from Cheltenham & County, Bigfoot and Slam69. We intend to try and have responses to most scenarios that might be presented to us at the meeting so as not to drag on the issue into many more meetings. Need to get something in place. We suspect that not all the tracks we have traditionally ridden will be on the table for continued use but we'll have to see. We have done our best to get a position statement out of them that gives us some specific details but sadly not. However their responses do seem to give a hint to some tracks being allowed, but only hints at this stage. Please, please continue to keep up the great work of avoiding the area. All good things come to those who wait (...one who waits??...)
Is the wall trail still okay to ride?
I rode up the buckholt road today and there was a lot of tire tracks at the start of the wall climb.
Correctiveroger can you add me to the mailing list, email in profile. I ride with a group from the Wiltshire area and have been watching the regular posts about this area and the problems for a while. Only just found this thread though.
I have noticed an increase in tracks over the last few weeks. Looks like people are getting frustrated and started to head back.
As far as I was aware the cotswold way upto the top of the wall and the wall run were all out of the scope of the land issues.
Cheers Dan, I've been avoiding all the cranham/buckholt trails just to be safe.
Saw a lot of bikers between painswick beacon across towards birdlip, I guess some people are getting itchy feet.
Can't blame them, it was great up there yesterday.
The wall and the Cotswold way are fine or not?Cotswold way is a footpath after all.But then again most of Cranham woods are private and most of us have been riding them for years!!!In my case 22years. 😯
Essentially for the good of the negotiations that we are doing our best to progress please just stay away until we have some form of actual agreement. Tempting as it is, if our good work collapses now it will simply give NE to potentially offer us less. We need to show them we can all pull together. I hate it as much as any other rider but no pain no gain. Come on, keep it up peeps!!
CraziScot. Added you to our email list.
Those involved with the face to face negotiations with NE are having a get together this week and I'm sure that potential increases in activity in the area will be discussed. Not a lot we can do but to appeal for all that know of the situation to stay on board and stick with us. Anyone riding there knowing the appeal to stay away will only have themselves partly to blame if we receive reports from NE / land owners that rising has continued.
Can you add me to the email (in profile) list as well please?
Peteimpreza, just added you and you should receive a copy of the latest update very soon... a repeat of above essentially.
Cheers roger, I'll continue to keep well away (hard as it is!).
Leckhampton and standish are filling in nicely for me right now but a few riders I know have been grumbling and getting impatient.
They're impatient.... we can only do what we can do. And we're putting the effort in for all out there. Unfortunatley doing this the mature way takes time.
Exactly, cheers for all the good work Roger
if people are going back into Cranham at this time of year when conditions aren't great, i am finding it ever harder to guess how anyone is going to enforce any ban?
Maybe the lure of snow and frozen Trails was too good to resist?
We managed to have a great time up there avoiding all the no-go areas.
Ok, discussions held tonight going through the various scenarios and offerings that we think NE might put on the table. It was agreed that there is a basic minimum number and location of tracks that we are prepared to accept before we agree to do antything in return for NE, eg promotion of any agreed trails, assistance with work parties to clear scrub etc. Be assured that we will not accept a simple A to B route that misses out some of our best trails. The Shrine area may be an issue, depends if NE and the land agent have managed to convince the Tysons to work with us and not against us. Whatever the outcome we intend to hold a gathering open to all as soon as we can to discuss the way forward with riding in the area.
Hi Roger, sorry could'nt make last night, sounds like you've covered what i thought anyway. so long as we can get this sorted before the spring we may have a chance but can't see people staying away once the ground dries up and the sun comes out, this will be the prob if they drag their heals much longer. I'm sure we'll manage to sort this as they seemed to sway in our direction after the last meeting and see that we have the same respect for the woods as them. For me there was one person we had to convince. Seems crazy that one man can deside the fate of all this. NE seemed quite willing to work with us. Keep it up Roger, we all owe you a lot mate. Now our shops sells more mountain bike brands we'll see more genaral bikers so spread the word even more.
I can't believe that this is still dragging on, I'm glad I've moved away because I for one would have still kept riding selective tracks as I had done for the past 10+ years. Only over the last couple of years has riding in cranham started to become noticed by landowners and I would say this is down to unnecessary trail building and large groups (clubs) riding week in week out. I take my helmet off to corrective roger for taking on NE and so far they've managed to stop bikers riding cranham through the winter so it'll be easy now to stop riding altogether. As mrmo says they are gonna struggle to enforce a ban though.
As you say Ian few riders whizzing through the trails no one bothers.Groups stopped chatting for ages with 10 or 20 gets noticed.When you think no one should be in there anyway.Not excatly intelligent. 🙄
The growth of riding has occurred for various reasons and many riders enjoy riding with clubs so unfair to critisise them too much. We are where we are and may be managing group quantities and sizes might be something for us to try and manage in the future.
The growth of riding has occurred for various reasons and many riders enjoy riding with clubs so unfair to critisise them too much. We are where we are and may be managing group quantities and sizes might be something for us to try and manage in the future.
Roger, you know my opinion on this, but club rides and Cranham IMO don't really work, I know some disagree, and if NE says OK it is something to think about.
Anyway has anyone been walking through the woods recently, just curious is any blockages have been put in place? logs, fences, etc effectively shutting down the trails before any "decision" is made.
I haven't heard from anyone who has walked the trails recently. Might be worth a scoping though in the coming weeks in case there has been any trail vandalism.
Roger
I might be up that way for a jog around on Saturday if not p***ing down. Will carry out a tyre track count and Let you know. Must admit as soon as the bluebells are out it will be really difficult for me to not go for a ride in what I've always condidered my backyard (after climbing up the Portway of course!)
OneWhoWaits
We are planning to hold a meeting for all riders to attend as soon after we have met up next with NE (5th March). No dates or venue confirmed yet (in contact with the Royal William though as they have a function room there). I will of course advertise this as soon as we have a venue sorted.
Whatever the outcome of our negotiations we feel it is important to discuss directly with riders, as there will be issues to overcome whatever.
Cheers, have a great weekend and please do your Cranham riding in your sleep.... pleasant dreams.
on Saturday if not p***ing down.
looks out the window = pishing it down 😆
Just come back from a two hour stroll around the trails. Not a single rider spotted and there doesn't appear from the state of the tracks to have been too much recent activity. Spoke to a local couple who walk their dogs in the woods every weekend and they told we that they hadn't seen any riders since the warning signs went up. May be the times I've been around there have not co-incided with riding activity, or it has generally ceased. Anyway, let's hope that this situation can change soon and we can all get back out there with a workable agreement.