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I believe I might "need" a versatile drop bar bike even though this possibly means I might need to ditch another bike to make room.
I know what I would like to use it for, which is rides from the door, which will take me quickly into some rough country roads and onward into easy rolling countryside on and off road. I particularly want to access this kind of riding for a 2-3 hour evening ride in the week, in the dark when I'm done with work OR over an extended lunch break. I possibly would want to bike-pack with it when restrictions allow but that's not the primary motivation.
I think I'd like space for and to have some mudguards for minimisation of cleaning.
I like the idea of some rack fittings but maybe not essential.
I don't want a 3 month wait - this is a winter lifestyle improvement tool not something for next summer and I'm an impatient blighter!
I don't get the concept of 650B wheels in a gravel bike. I ride a 29r and love it, why would I go smaller genuine question (I also have a road bike which clearly has a smaller OD than the 29r)?
So far been looking at...
Planet X Free Ranger (650b)
I like the look of the Escapade but would have to wait until March so it's out! I also wondered about a traditional tourer but maybe that's a smidge too sensible.
I must be missing some stuff but not really knowing where or what to look at to fit the usage brief. I'm definitely not breaching £2k on this and if I could bring in around £1500 I'd be much happier. 🙂
Suggestions and mockery of obvious lack of knowledge welcomed.
Depending on how roughtytufty you want to get don’t forget the Genesis Vagabond. Newly upgraded/incarnated in Reynolds 725 and 1x? Definitely the (joint) most comfortable bike I’ve had (along with a 531ST retro/classic tourer), but the Vagabond can handle anything.
I owned a gravel bike for that exact purpose - multi surface rides from the door,and it was superb. I changed to an XC hardtail this year however as I'm moving house shortly to more 'rolling' or flatter countryside I'll be building another gravel bike in 2021.
I would avoid anything intended as a 'tourer' as that to me is a bike very much meant to stay on tarmac. My experience is that the Genesis CdF very much is not a gravel bike, for instance.
People will say that a tourer can go off road - a race bike with 23,s can go off road too, it's just not very pleasant.
Re wheel size - I am a massive cynic and IMO 650b or road plus was pushed by manufacturers with frames which did not nave sufficient frame clearance for suitably sized tyres for proper off road work. Reducing wheel size allowed them to fit the >40mm tyres which I believe are about right in volume for a true gravel bike.
My experience is that 40/45mm tubeless tyres is about the sweet spot, and also to avoid the massively flared bars. I changed from a hugely flared bar to a wider, slightly flared bar and found it better on and off road.
Maybe look at Sonder's El Camino range...in a recommend what you have message... I use mine for sealed road and non gnarly gravel touring as that is what is set up for with rack and mudguards but is well behaved on rougher gravel single track if I put my bigger tyre tubeless wheelset on it versatile all day frame ...Alpkit used to do a rent one for a day get it knocked off the purchase price if geography works thing
Edit somewhere on STW is a bulky picture thread of people's set ups
https://www.halfords.com/bikes/road-bikes/boardman-adv-9.0-mens-road-bike-2021---large-426990.html with British Cycling 10% discount makes it £1530, only large available right now, other sizes incoming.
OP, that's an exact description of what I use my gravel bike for. I have a Pinnacle Arkose and am very happy with it.
I don’t get the concept of 650B wheels in a gravel bike. I ride a 29r and love it, why would I go smaller genuine question (I also have a road bike which clearly has a smaller OD than the 29r)?
650B works because at the higher speeds over smaller bumps that a gravel bike sees a lot of the time, tyre volume is what's most important (assuming the wheels aren't 16" etc). Larger Wheel OD gives you better roll-over. Both give you 29 or 29+, great off road. 650B is great on a gravel bike as it gives clear volume advantages while keeping wheel weight low and geometry closer to what you'd expect for a quick-feeling drop bar bike.
If you want more off-road ability than 650B offers you're into 29 x 2" or more and the next Q is do you still want drop bars or would an XC 29er, maybe a rigid one, be a better bike off-road yet still cover road sections well? If the answer is that you still like the road miles enough to want drops, 650 is a good option. There's a few drop bar bikes on that 29 x 2" borderline that aren't quite 29ers though.
I am a massive cynic and IMO 650b or road plus was pushed by manufacturers with frames which did not nave sufficient frame clearance for suitably sized tyres for proper off road work. Reducing wheel size allowed them to fit the >40mm tyres which I believe are about right in volume for a true gravel bike.
Just a good thing that was revived with tubeless tech. I've been riding bikes like this a long time, I made the swap to 650B and haven't looked back. The lack of frame changes helped get the tyre format out there for sure but part of the benefit of 650B is getting that volume on a bike that keeps the geometry and still fits guards etc. You could go longer overall and have bigger wheels, as above - just gets closer to a light MTB.
This would be getting my money, tempted to get one next year. If I hadn’t just ordered a new road bike I’d be after one now.
https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/bikes/adventure-touring-bikes/920/920/p/21996/?colorCode=tan
I like long distance riding, I’ve used my Domane for long adventure rides, tyre volume and gearing is key for me. This appears to hit both of those criteria.
The 1120 is my dream bike, but it’s a tad expensive for what it is.
I recently took my Whyte Glencoe off road for the first time, loved it.
Wish it had more clearance on the seat stays as it does clog there.
I've got a free ranger and think it's brill. Bought it in 700c guise that I use it in most of the time but just got some 650b wheels for it to allow bigger chunkier tyres for over the winter.
One thing you may find with an out and out gravel bike is a lack of bosses which will limit carry options. I have a Brother Kepler which is a so called "all road" bike so loads of bosses and can take up to a 700x45 or 650x48c. I use mine for similar to you morning rides from the door and longer rides on the weekend when I fancy something different to a mountain bike ride. Original plan this year was some bike packing but lockdown stopped that.
https://www.brothercycles.com/shop/frames/kepler-disc/
The LBS just got in a Kona Sutra UnLtd. Hot damn, that looks like fun.
I also swapped to 650b on 47mm tyres from 700c with 40mm WTB Nano's and the difference in comfort and off road ability is significant. Especially around here where it's very rocky (Peak District)
My gravel bike is my adventure bike is my tourer. #gradventourer
It's a 12 year old Van Nicholas Amazon which has morphed over the years and does exactly what you want.
I have 3 wheelsets for it. A road set for pure tarmac touring, a CX set with 700c Nano 40s for short whizzes round the local forest and a 650B set with 47mm Byways for general, mixed riding. I'm currently researching another 650x47 tyre option for the somewhat softer terrain we're dealing with at this time of year. The added volume the wider tyre offers makes a lot of sense on rougher tracks.
It's had Woodchipper bars fitted for 10 of those 12 years. They excel off-road but I find them great on-road too. They put my hands and arms in exactly the right position for rough descents.
Oh yeah, it's running a 50/34 front, 11-40 rear at the moment too.
If you've room for them I've found 2.0 WTB rangers a good 650b option, they roll pretty quick on hard pack stuff too.
The LBS just got in a Kona Sutra UnLtd. Hot damn, that looks like fun.
Got the LTD version (not as slack, no dropper) but can still run 29 x 2.25’s. It’s great fun and still quick on tarmac.
Happy Arkrose owner here, though proper mudguards may need a bodge, it's on the Arkrose thread (or use Speedrockers)
A mate has just got a Spa Elan and loves it, but I get the impression more road biased than off-road
A mate is looking at going to a Genesis Longitude for these kind of rides and giving up the drop bar/gravel option.
Are you committed to the drop bars?
How about a fast, light 29er with rigid forks?
For example £999 gets you this
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBOOWHSX/on-one-whippet-sram-sx-mountain-bike
Leaves you £500 for some nice carbon wheels and new tyres
I don’t why a poster is saying the croix de Fer isn’t a contender. Isn’t it one of the original rough stuff bikes ?
Mines sitting in the garage with 38mm gravelking slicks and full mudguards, rides nicely on smooth bridleways etc and is so comfy on the road.
When I got my first FS bike a year ago I swapped my Cotic Soul with my son for his Charge Duster. At lockdown, I needed a bike that I could ride to Cannock Chase then on Cannock Chase. I put some skinny tyres with knobbly sides on and now have a very versatile bike. Not quite as easy on the road as my Pinarello, not quite as secure on the trails as my Giant Trance, but just the job.
Always ridden rigid 29ers and cyclo cross and didn't really get the need for 650b. But having tried them on my 6 year old Tripster they work really well, 42mm a sweet spot for riding local loops in the summer. Just a nicer ride all round, only draw back is the slightly lower BB height. In the Winter the 700s go back on for winter road riding duties.
Arkose owner now about to swap for a Camino Ti as a C2W treat as i use this bike type a lot for exactly the stuff you describe OP.
Just make sure to get something which can take 45c tyres as they are quite lovely both on and off road.
I have 45c tyres on an Arkose. Comfy.
Cube nuroad c62 pro comes in within budget, full carbon, 1x11, grx, takes 40c and mudguards, or 45 without. Weghs 9.1kg, £1999.
I've been eyeing up the Elan as a comfortable road bike that won't mind brief detours down bridleways. I'd like to try one first but they're the other end of the country.
OP - the Titus is the Goldrush rather than the Tempest, which is another PX one. I lusted after a Goldrush for ages but they were unavailable. I got the Tempest instead. It does the stuff that you want. I like mine.
@garage-dweller Curious why you’d go for the Spa Elan but not their Ti Roughstuff bike; is it the lack of discs?
What you are looking for is what several of the bikes/frameset in my shed do. My Trek Crockett spare CX race bike has done precisely 1 CX race and then at least 4000 miles of Audax and rough stuff this year. It replaced my Raleigh Maverick Reynolds 631) as the Raleigh was too heavy for CX racing spare bike duties but has tremendous clearance front and rear and is a very dependable bike to ride off road. I also built a GT Grade for my wife. Again it will do rough stuff and good road miles.
I’d think hard about the gearing you want. I found a 2x really useful on both the Vagabond and the Longitude as doitalls. The old tourer has a triple setup and that’s even better for massive and varied trips.
I like the simplicity of 1x and even singlespeed but it all depends on the course for your horse.
Thanks for all the replies will read properly later once kids are (eventually) in bed later tonight.
I don’t why a poster is saying the croix de Fer isn’t a contender. Isn’t it one of the original rough stuff bikes ?
I was going to ask the same thing. Always thought it was exactly the type of bike the OP wants.
This could be ace, I really want one. I like the Trek 920 but this has got the dynamo hub, looks ready for a proper adventure. Bit more on the MTB/off-road side of things maybe
Edited to add it's the new Decathlon 920
Had a Day-One, rode well but only had one gear.
Croix de fer, amazingly good commuter and winter all round bike but unbelievably dull, heavy and lifeless to ride.
Trek Crockett Cross bike, so much fun to ride on and off road. Lively but capable.
I'd be looking at the Checkpoint which I believe is almost the same geometry/weight as the Crockett but with mud guard and rack mounts.
Now that is one sexy bastard of a bike! Cheap too.
https://www.tiso.com/bicyg1al0156/trek-checkpoint-alr4-gravel-bike-red
If I was to go proper touring tomorrow I'd use my Stooge mountain bike. It's lazy attitude would really suit touring. Not a fast option though.
That Touring 920 looks kitted out very well.
https://bikepacking.com/news/readers-rig-cesars-riverside-touring-920/
Yes, the Touring 920 has caught my eye too.... love the dynamo integration!
Love, Forever Changes
60’s west coast usa. same producer as the Doors, but a different sound. it’s a great album.
i believe that they had orchestral arrangements in pop music before the Beatles.
Just be aware that a proper touring bike will very likely be overly built to be able to carry luggage, so might ride like crap when not loaded up.
My brief understanding of what a commuter, Road, Cross, Gravel and touring bikes are and their differences (this is a generalisation so there will be bikes and do things a bit differently).
Road bike
Light weight bikes with narrow tyres and drop handlebars. Made for going fast on the road. They tend to have low bottomed brackets, steep head angles (quick handling), big gears and a steep (arse up and head down) riding position. Great fun on roads. Generally can fit up to 28mm tyres.
Gravel bike
Like the above but the tyres clearances will be bigger, the gears slightly easier, geometry slightly slacker as to handle better off road. Will have light luggage carrying In mind but ultimately are about covering distance at speed but on rougher roads than the road bike. Great fun on rough, fire and gravel roads but can get out of their depth off road pretty quickly. Can come with 650 or 700 wheels. Generally you can fit up to 45-50mm tyres.
Cross bikes
Cross bikes tend to be like a road bike (ie built lightweight and have drop bars) but are built for racing so can have quick handling, higher bottom bracket, easier to carry (more horizontal toptube, possibly even flattened on the underside). Don't expect luggage or mudguard fixing points or in some very racy ones any bottle cage mounts. Ok on the road but come alive as soon as you get one into some muddy single track. So much fun! But can be fragile and not very comfortable (although there are exceptions to this). Gearing wise they are generally not as steep as a road bike but still pretty big for proper off-road. Also get out of their depth pretty quickly on technical off road. Generally can fit up to about 40mm tyres.
Commuter
Built to take abuse daily. Weigh a ton, handle like crap but will rarely let you down. Gearing, geometry, bar type are a deeply personal thing here. Personally I'd pick a singlespeed/cross or hub geared flat barred bike for this task. Generally you can fit up to 50mm tyres or even bigger.
Tourer
Built to carry luggage and rider with a comfortable riding position for all day long. Speed is not it's priority nor is fun handling. Can come with 26", 650 or 700 wheels. They are heavy but strong. Tyres sizes are all over the place with these but expect to be able to for 40mm+ tyres.
Of the bike types above I picked the Cross bike (custom build with 1 x 11) as I prioritise lightweight, fast fun over practicality and comfort. In my opinion the OP wants a gravel bike as they're a really good all rounder.
You said it was a generalisation and it is just that with the differences not being as clear as your generalisation states. For example, a commuter doesn't have to weight a ton or handle like crap but it does benefit from being dependable.
What the large amount of options does mean is that you can list your requirements and then pick a bike that fits and not worry about what category someone has put them in. For example I ride track bikes as they fit my requirements of handling, simplicity, light weight but they never get anywhere near to seeing a velodrome.
Thanks for all the suggestions, most are sadly out of stock and no delivery dates, although March seems a common theme.
I am leaning to the quicker and sharper end of the spectrum with a bit more thought about it. The reality is 80-90% of use will be sub 3 hours at a time. If I get it right then the road bike and hybrid might both be on the way out and the 456 can get made into a utility bike. Leaving the FS and a fastsish gravel bike covering all my other riding.
I'm still looking at that Whippet rigid 29r and wondering if I "have" to have a drop bar bike or whether flat bars, some spare light and fast narrower tyres might make it fast enough to make the ride out from home seem ok🤔. I'm sure the answer is not both unless I'm prepared to sell the FS bike. My instinct is drops but that doesn't make it right. Need a bit of map research today on road/trail ratio. 🙂
Also spotted these, which I can get locally.
NuRoad race this would have to lose the kickstand I think which seems a weird addition.
If you can get them local, then the Genesis would be ace.
I had the same ideas in mind - local (rough, crappy maintenance) rides often only 2-3hrs, some weekend tours, forest track or estate road. I didn't want a hugely heavy tourer, over built and quite 'dead' in feel, I didn't want full on gravel high front end such as Vagabond, I didn't want a flighty race bike.
I didn't have the budget for a nice steel frame 🙁
It had to take guards, rack and 35-40mm tyres.
My Merlin is proving to be all that. It's fast enough, comfy enough and so far done all that I thought I would use it for.
While I like the term "gravel" as a convenient descriptor for that genre of bike, I feel the American version of the idea is more suited to the long smooth final trim graded dirt roads they have over there.
We don't have very many of those roads. Ours tend to be much lumpier and muddier.
Take jameso's advice and make tyre volume your priority, and if that means 650B, then you won't be disappointed.
I live in the Northern Highlands and a lot of our "gravel" is quite rocky, so my preference is for even higher volume tyres. It's more for comfort than necessity because you can ride most of it on narrower tyres, but then you and your bike get more beat up.
The extra length required for what basically is a dropbar gravel 29er may not be a disadvantage if you appreciate comfort on the long haul.
As for mudguards, I regard them as a necessity. They allow you to use far more breathable clothes because you don't need the waterproofing required to repel a constant stream of spray from the tyres, and you won't smell of cow shit after venturing down a farm track.
The money saved on expensive waterproofs can be spent on the bike. 🙂
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Info: 26" with 60mm tyre, 650b with 47mm, and 700c with 38mm, are all approximately the same diameter. Thus you could build a "gravel" bike with any of those and have the same geometry and fit.
Well I have (a previous iteration of) the Goldrush you linked to and I love it for the sort of riding you describe. As long as you're not expecting it to be either a proper mountain bike off road, or as fast as a 7kg road bike on road, it's been very versatile. It's great for the sort of riding that I do a lot of over the winter, the sort of typical muddy bridleways linked up via road sections that I suspect constitute most mountain biking throughout the South East.
I've not toured with it, but I've used it with panniers for shopping when it meant extra rides during the first lockdown, and I was impressed with how well it handled when loaded.
I'm not sure about 650b on a road(ish) bike either. I really should try the wheels it came with again, but as they came with slicks and it was muddy at the time, I did one ride on them and swapped them for my 700c wheels with CX tyres or my other 700c wheels with road tyres on - two sets of wheels makes it a quick swap for more versatility. I did find that it felt smaller with the smaller wheels on, but that may just have wanted a little getting used to.
Drop bars seem to be a bit of a Marmite thing, some people would far rather have mountain bike flat bars for more control off road, at the expense of less aero / fewer hand positions for the road. Other people are the other way round. I'm quite happy with them for general riding and appreciate the extra positions.
@didnthurt's list of bike types I agree with in theory, but I think that the lines have become very blurred recently with more emphasis on the trendy term of the moment to describe very similar bikes. A few years ago, there were certainly bikes being marketed as "CX" that were far more general urpose than a true CX race bike before a bike that went on and off road and had drop handlebars became known as a "Gravel / Adventure" bike. Boardman still have very similar geometry on what they're selling as a CX bike to their adventure bikes. And then there are bikes like the Goldrush and the Kenesis ATR that are deliberately intended as multi purpose, crossing over the categories.
I picked up a Genesis Fugio 30 from Winstanley a couple of months back. It’s a cracking ride and makes me smile. Just need to buy some mudguards first it now. It’s on 650b wheels and I’ll probably swap the bars for some flared Spank vibrocore ones.
I use a Kona rove Al gravel bike for a tourer.
I'd much rather use a gravel bike as a tourer than a tourer as a gravel bike.
I've ridden across British Columbia and down the Rockies 4 up panniers on mine.
When here in the UK lives with 45c nanos and when touring it has 38c marathons on -that is the only change. 45 nanos.fit under the pdw full metals and the front and rear stainless rubus racks stay fitted
Can’t remember if you specced a budget but I’ve got one of these and it’s ace.
Last one in medium it looks like. They’ve also got a couple of other hooks/ audax which look like good options.
Love my hook extc, had it 6 months after having an escapade with 700x40c nanos for the 5 yrs before. It is a lot lighter than the cotic and has more cushioning due to the 650bx50 tyres (wtb ventures which are great all rounder) but still flies. I use it for 1hr gravel blasts from the door, Sunday afternoon explore type rides on gravel tracks, old byeways, rubbish backroads etc. It’s got loads of bosses if you need them and will take a decent size 700c wheel as well.
The guys in the shop have sold a good number. They’re a great compromised bike and it reminds me of my ‘93 Orange Clockwork for smiles per mile.
I’ve seen that nuroad race fe in the flesh, it looked truly stunning.
trail_rat
Free Member
I use a Kona rove Al gravel bike for a tourer.
Kick myself regularly for not buying one of these when they were on sale (£500?) a few years ago.
Never heard a bad word about them.
Never heard a bad word about them.
Not gonna lie....not much rove left.
I bought it for 500 quid got it home , stripped the wheels down and rebuilt the rims.on pro 2/exposure sp2 Dyno Hub. , Fitted a triple claris shifter + deore touring triple chainset (24/38/48) , Shimano xt touring pedals , carbon seat pin and brooks saddle , b+m iqx/rear light combo with rubus racks and pdw guards.
The bars are a nice shape , the rims are nice but the hubs were cheapos , the brakes were cheap but impressive Hayes model. I have bb7s off a previous build I kept to replace these and have not bothered. Came off mount althabasa in the Rockies descending the road for 30 so.minutes in traffic with 4 panniers on without any issues or even second thoughts with brakes.
It also.makes a great commuter, winter bike and general utility bike. My most used bike.
@burko73 thanks, the Hook is out of budget. I had no idea that place existed in Lyndhurst and just been looking at other stuff they have.
@martymac thanks that's worth knowing I'm sitting on a bit of a knife edge between the stripped down "racy"/lightweight experience and (and ability to add some mudguards and a rack later) VS. the more practical "go explore" leanings (and weight) of the Fe.
It is like there's a black hole in availability right now - I guess lockdown and some manufacturer choices/restrictions on production but an awful lot of "no stock til March" or "out of stock" out there for things that I would otherwise have lept at.
Salsa Vaya?
@garage-dweller no probs. I noticed your budget afterwards. The Woods Cyclery is a great bike shop and the lads in there are super knowledgeable and helpful. Its a shame I have to walk past it 4 times a day! Potential to get out of hand...
They've usually got a good demo fleet of gravel and adventure bikes etc. Its amazing having had a gravel/ do it all bike for a number or yrs here in the NF (its the best compromise for the miles of gravel tracks and lanes) how many nice looking gravel/ adventure bikes I see cruising around the place now.
You might pick up a steel hook ex in an end of season sale if there are any left about.
Sorry good folks of STW a couple more quick questions or perhaps more a sense check...The plan is to order a Free Ranger tomorrow but hovering between 650 and 700 versions. The 650 comes with 650x43 vs. 700x38
I think:
- 650x43 gets me to roughly the same OD as 700x25 and
- 700x38 suggests I'd probably get a 650x50 tyre in without any clearance issues (OO says 700x48 max tyre).
I don't really want (the cost of) a second set of wheels just now and I have a road bike for when that urge takes me (but never say never 🙂 ).
I think therefore I want to go with the 650 but might also want a set of 50mm or so tyres at some point. There seems to be plenty of vertical clearance but not sure about horizontal. Anyone got one who can confirm?
Can I expect the 650 option to be lighter?
Does my logic seem sound? I normally ride a 29r if that makes any kind of difference.
Can I expect the 650 option to be lighter?
I wouldn't expect much in it - you'll trade longer spokes and larger diameter rim against bigger tyres.
Will you run mudguards?
Mudguards are definitely on the agenda. I think I can see where you're going with that question - clearances.
700 all day long if you plan to tour.
You'll get a replacement tire in almost any bike shop in any town.....hell even bigger asdas/Testo/walmart/ Carrefour
650b. ....not so much
clearances
Indeed. We run two 'all road' ish bikes. With guards we will max out at at about 38/40mm tyres, despite having 50mm and 56mm of clearance overall.
Depends on the mudguard
I found I can get the larger wtb nanos under pdw full metals but not a chance under SKS chromoplasts
I just wanted to pop back one last time and say I'm very grateful for all your input.
I couldn't quite overcome my attachment to big wheels so I've gone for the 700c Free Ranger in the knowledge I could downsize / buy some other nice 650 wheels later if I want some more squish or clearance.
Now I just have to wait not very long for it. I don't really do being patient for new kit ...