Gravel Groupsets GRX RX610 vs APEX1 AXS?

I’m a die hard shimano fanboy. But the axs is lovely! The electronic shifting is far more important than you may think once you get to 12 speed, it’s no longer just brifter feel 🙂 (yes, i know someone will be along shortly to tell me I just need to clean my cables and learn to index my gears and I can. It’s just not as crispy)

GRX ergonomics are head and shoulders better than SRAM , SRAM levers are the road ones repurposed whereas the Shimano brifters were designed specifically for riding over rough ground both on the hoods and the drops and it shows, especially the lever blade shape.

Got SRAM rival AXS on a test bike and on the drops I seem to have to reach up to shift so there's less grip on the bar. Shimano is just a one finger tap or push without compromising grip

Plus there's all the Dot4 v mineral differences too, Dot4 is nasty stuff

Cheers both. Not too worried about mineral Vs dot as there's already a house full of Hope brakes. Very interested in the ergonomic comments though.

Feels like it's £20 to swap grips on the MTB if your hands aren't happy but it's hundreds on new shifters if you don't like a gravel or road bike.

The SRAM spec does offer my preferred crank length though. Having said that, Shimano are the only one who integrates a dropper lever (although that's an expensive upgrade)

There seems to be more chainring options for the SRAM bike as well.

If you are going 1x you can stick any chainset you want on it. Do you need something out side 170-175? The grx will take a 38t ring and there are a few options there. If it's bigger you want them the limit will be the frame clearance rather than availability

The integrated dropper lever is great though and works flawlessly. A dropper is great if you are exploring and don't know what's around the next corner. Getting that saddle out of the way is a big plus for me.

Preferred crank length is 170mm which is what's stick on the SEAM version, but it's 172.5mm on the Shimano.

I know 2.5mm doesn't sound like much but several years ago, my knees weren't happy in 175. Everything was switched to 170 and my knees were happy again. Maybe 172.5 is okay, maybe it's not, but I'm reluctant to take the chance given how easily that could bugger up a summer of cycling.

I've got some spare turbine cinch cranks in 170 so could put those on. However, Shimano 12 speed compatible rings with 6mm offset, 38T and cinch are proving hard to find or not far off the price of a new GRX chainset.

The other option is to run a SRAM chain and forego the plus part of hyperglide plus which I've never had before so not sure I'll miss it.

Does anyone know if there's much of a difference between Easton cinch rings and RaceFace cinch rings? The cinch fitting if the same so why lost them separately? Are the default chainlines different?

If your buying from a shop they will easily be able to swap to 170mm chainset.

if there’s much of a difference between Easton cinch rings and RaceFace cinch rings?

They’re both owned by the same company, so probably just branding/aesthetics

"They’re both owned by the same company, so probably just branding/aesthetics"

I would have thought the same but Wolftooth and Garbaruk both lost them separately rather than just under "Cinch"

"f your buying from a shop they will easily be able to swap to 170mm chainset."

It is a bricks and mortar shop but they sell their own bikes rather than having a stack of different sized chainset in the storeroom.

I get the feeling they just ordered 1000 GRX groupsets all in the same size.

Recently built a bike with Rival AXS 1x12 and love it. Silent shifting. If I had the money Id upgrade my MTB to AXS too but need to save for car insurance.

Was that a mullet set up?

AXS 100%

AXS over Shimano for me, every time.

@crossed why's that?

The shifting with AXS is pretty much perfect, whatever the conditions. Far batter than any Shimano set up I’ve used.
I also find the SRAM shifters really comfortable.
As for the fluid differences mentioned above, that argument is a non-starter for me. Realistically, how often do you bleed brakes unless you’re a serial faffer who seems to think they need bled every time you change your pads etc? My hydraulic brakes are all fit and forget!

This decision is not getting any easier, although I appreciate all the input.

I have no particular preferences either way for Shimano / SRAM - my road/gravel bikes are all Shimano, my MTB is SRAM but I've ridden SRAM AXS on road and gravel in the past.

I agree with the comment above about 12sp - once you get up to 12, it is a lot more precise with electronic shifting. But if you offered me GRX Di2 or SRAM AXS, I'd literally just flip a coin. Both work absolutely fine, it does just come down o a question of personal preference.

I won’t help you any more, but my Crux came with AXS and I took it off and replaced with GRX di2.  My MTB’s all have AXS.  My decision was mainly based on the fact I wanted 2x, but I’m also not keen on the shape of the SRAM hoods.

I agree with the comment above about 12sp – once you get up to 12, it is a lot more precise with electronic shifting. But if you offered me GRX Di2 or SRAM AXS, I’d literally just flip a coin.

This is a good part of my quandry.  I'm trying to choose between Shimano 12 speed mechanical and SRAM 12 speed electronic.

12spd GRX shift is fantastic and hasn’t required any adjustment at all.

Can’t see past it, and love the dropper integration on LH lever.

I've recently got my first gravel bike and it has Rival AXS, which reports say is identical to Apex.
My roadbike has Campag, so I can't compare levers with GRX but I love the set-up. All hand positions feel comfortable and in control.
It's my first non-cable shifting and I find it superb, except I keep getting up and down muxed ip but it takes a split second to correct it.

Clearly I can't make a bad choice here. It's just in my nature to obsess about making the best one.

I have 1x 12 Rival AXS on both gravel bikes, and 11 and 12 speed di2 on both road bikes. The one with 11 speed is my eroad bike, a Creo SL, 1x, whereas the 12 speed is a 2x, on my Synapse.

I prefer the feel of SRAM, and on the gravel bike with a dropper, I have an AXS Reverb, so it’s both levers at once to move the post, works a treat 👍

I get the feeling they just ordered 1000 GRX groupsets all in the same size.

Then they must have a Madison account so should be easily able to source you a 170 unless the groupsets were grey imports etc. but weird if the are putting 172.5 on all sizes of bike from sml to XXL

but weird if the are putting 172.5 on all sizes of bike from sml to XXL

Totally agree, but that's what they're doing, from small to X-Large (no XXL)

Don't think that Shimano 12s mechanical shifting is a problem,have Ekar 13 and it's been great. Shimano 12 s is probably just as good, most I have done is given the rear mech adjuster a 1/2 turn or so.

38t chainring is the max for GRX?

I've been running 42t chainring & 11-42 cassette on my gravel bike, recently moved to a 44t chainring & 11-46 cassette - 38t would be so under-geared for any tarmac IME.

Sram AXS road/gravel levers are also 2x compatable so if you think you migjt change to 2x latwr on, its not gling to be as expensive as an entire groupset change.

I had Rival AXS XPLR - gears were great (range and shifting), but wasn’t impressed with the brakes. Always seemed to have too much throw and would hit my finger when braking from the drops. Also, got through a set of pads in one (admittedly muddy) ride - though I imagine that can be rectified pretty easily.

I’m back on mechanical GRX 11 speed because I mainly prefer the brakes, but wish it had the gear ratio of the XPLR - I guess the 12 speed GRX addresses that. I’m planning on saving up for Di2 12 Speed GRX…

“Sram AXS road/gravel levers are also 2x compatable so if you think you migjt change to 2x latwr on, it’s not gling to be as expensive as an entire groupset change.”

Not Apex shifters, it is 1x only.

“They’re both owned by the same company, so probably just branding/aesthetics”

I would have thought the same but Wolftooth and Garbaruk both lost them separately rather than just under “Cinch”

Other than visual differences only the offset of the ring possibly. Easton cranks have a shorter axle than the RF models. Rings are interchangeable though, my CX bike running Easton cranks with a large RF ring (was previously running same ring on a turbine crank but swapped to the Easton cranks to narrow the Q factor for clearance).

@nixie that's really useful to know. So switching a cinch ring between Easton and RaceFace cranks changes the Q factor but not the chainline.

That must mean the mounting point on each crank is the same distance from the centre line of the frame.

GRX!

"Not Apex shifters, it is 1x only"

Does that apply to Apex AXS as well? There are two shift buttons, one left, one right.

I’m in the same position as the OP as I’m looking to buy parts for a CX build for later this year.

I’ve managed to accumulate a GRX 600 left hand brake lever and some GRX 400 calipers from eBay, some Rival AXS rear derailleurs from Ribble when they were on offer and Apex DUB cranks from eBay. There seems to be a much easier upgrade path and more options for powermeters with SRAM than with Shimano cranks. Shimano also don’t offer any options in terms of smaller cranks lengths in GRX.

From what I can see online the consensus seems to be that the SRAM brakes are worse than the Shimano equivalent and some people seem to have issues with the pogo pins on the AXS derailleurs. I’m aware that you only hear bad the stories online though. AXS stuff does appear to be comparable in price to the Shimano mechanical stuff so it’s likely the new 12 speed Di2 will be even more expensive.

Can anyone comment on whether spending extra for bleeding edge calipers is worth spending extra (Apex or Rival AXS shifters with Force calipers)?

GRX 610 cranks will go down as low as 165mm and a 38T chain ring.

Yes. I’ve no idea why they don’t offer 810/820 in 165mm. 610’s are a bit heavier but probably not an issue with gravel builds.

@onzadog the Q factor is determined by the axle length and crank arm. Raceface have a tech document somewhere that details them. The chainline is determined by the axle and ring. Raceface use a 134mm (older) or 136mm axle to achieve a 51/52mm chainline (iirc). I think the Easton axle is 128mm giving a 48mm chainline with the same ring. On top of that other suppliers make cinch rings with 0, 3 or 6mm offset (think the stock is 3mm).

Not really applicable to 1x but the only issue I've ever had with GRX mechanical (and the Ultegra on the bike it replaced) was front mech cable failure, which ruins a ride a bit.. An immovable cable inner, Internal routing and fear of hamfisted damage soon stopped my rushed attempts to fix at home on the more recent failure... the resultant trip to the LBS meant having to use the 'wrong' bike for my only gravel event so far.. Probably could have avoided with preventative maintenance...

My next bike will be electronic shifting for this reason alone although I expect electronic shifting can find ever new and more frustrating ways to pack in in the field.. (assuming you remember to keep the batteries charged)..

@nixie good point, I'm forgetting that Easton will work off a 68mm shell where as RaceFace will space out the 73, even if the shell is 68mm.

My older Turbines are 134mm axle (I've some newer ones in 136 which come with a rubberised washer each side). When I went from a 142mm back end to boost, all I did was change the chainring to a 3mm offset.

A 6mm offset should get me back to where I need to be, but I'm struggling to find 6mm offset AND Shimano 12 speed compatible because of those silly chamfered plates. Add to that wanting Cinch and 38T and I'm wondering if I should just buy a new chainset.

The other option is a shorter axle but those kits are nearly the same price as a set of ea90 cranks (or other brand cranks). I've not had to look for 12s rings yet so can't help there I'm afraid.

Given time, I'm sure the rings will appear, but with 12 speed GRX being relatively new, the demand for Shimano 12 speed rings for 49mm chain lines is pretty low. Add in Cinch which isn't that common in road/gravel and it's no surprise it's a struggle

My understanding of AXS is if there is a button on both left and right levers, they can be set via the phone app to controll a rear derailleur, front derailleur, and dropper post.

Yep, that's my understanding as well.

"38t chainring is the max for GRX?

I’ve been running 42t chainring & 11-42 cassette on my gravel bike, recently moved to a 44t chainring & 11-46 cassette – 38t would be so under-geared for any tarmac IME."

I'm pretty sure 38T is the minimum. Current bike top gear is 50x11 but 38x10 is the same as 50x13 so it's only losing one year and by that time, I'm more likely to be trying to get aero rather than pedalling like fury.

Plus 38x51 should get me up just about anything.

For those of you who like closure, I went with the GRX 1x12 40x10-51 although I plan to swap cranks and run a 38T.

I'd have gone Shimano too.

My 11spGRX 600 has superb shifting, but the brakes might be the bigger deal.

My pal is disappointed with his SRAM brakes and says my grx are much better.

I'm planning on upgrading the levers to get Servowave.

If Apex AXS is anything like normal APEX w.r.t build quality and longevity it'll be shite