[Closed] Gravel bike or hardtail?

All depends on the road to offroad ratio.

Both will be good on gravel fire roads, the gravel bike will be better on the road, the hardtail better on slightly rougher offroad.

If you'll be doing road and light offroad, gravel bike. Mostly light offroad with some more rough stuff, and not much road, hardtail.

Ratio road vs off*?

The fact that you say ‘hardtail’ rather than ‘rigid 29er MTB’ leads me to believe that a gravel bike won’t work out as well if your riding requires sus forks.

Unless you fancy changing your type of riding/bike. Even then - there are ‘gravel’ bikes like 8kg road bikes with 32mm tyres and radical racing posture/geo, then there are ‘gravel bikes’ like skinny rigid MTBs with wide-drop bars and a fairly relaxed posture/geo

*What type of ‘offroad’?

(Edit ta11pau1 beat me to it!)

Here’s a video by a gravelfan

Keep the road bike and save up for an MTB as well? You know it makes sense 😉

The 'gravel' bike I saw on Gravelbikes UK Facebook page last night had 2.4 knobbly tyres on....

Whereas today I was overtaken on a gravel track by an old Cannondale hardtail with road wheels and what looked like 25's on...

#blurredlines

I’m in the same position regarding buying a gravel or short travel ht. Still can’t make up my mind.

I’ll be keeping my fs and probably road bike as well.

Specialized Chisel here for exactly this purpose. Just about to put a set of carbon rigid forks on. Light, comfy.

If your in the lakes, hire a bike. Maybe alpkit as I think they remove the hire price from the purchase?

Ride the gravel bike on the tracks you ride most often and see if you like it. Did it rattle your teeth and break your back?

How do your times compare on road and off road?

Personally I'd have a road bike and a mtb.

It's possible to make a hardtail as fast as a gravel bike, but a crucial difference is the hardtail will cost almost double to achieve that same weight - then you also have the maintenance aspects of the suspension fork to contend with if you're using the bike as an all weather frequent use prospect. I have a 90mm travelled leftied 29er I got from before gravel was really a thing, its got thunderburts on it, it'll keep up with a gravel bike on anything but be quicker in the rough - It's a pig to maintain though as it needs some high spec parts to achieve that weight and it's finickity...a heavier 29er hardtail would not feel as fast. Next time round I'd get a big tyred gravel bike 45-50mm tyre with as comfy frame as poss, probably Ti, and just take it easy in the rough, for the benefit of durability, simplicity and less outlay.

I'm in love with my gravel bike right now, am still learning what it is capable of but it just feels so fast and versatile on what I call 'U.S. Style' gravel e.g. typically wide gravel tracks that you could probably nurse a car along. It's ridiculous fun on skinny muddy singletrack but I don't have much faith on anything steep or rocky.

However, was out on my 3 year old Trek Superfly today, with 17kg of toddler hanging off the back, and was reminded just how good that bike was also. Funnily enough, the additional 4" of suspension fork doesn't seem all that significant, and the only thing I really missed from the gravel bike was the hand positions of the drop bars, and the smoothness and range of the 2x drivetrain.

If you put a gun to my head I'd probably give up the gravel bike first, on the proviso that I could put some funky bars on the Superfly, and stick some gravel slicks on it too.

Pretty sure a 29er MTB would give you better bang for your buck too, not getting fleeced for hydraulic STI levers up front etc.

Ha, interesting difference in perspective with Endoverend there, my gravel bike (built from parts, so more expensive than something off the shelf) probably came in at about £2,250 and sneaks under 10kg with pedals, bottle cages, Garmin mount etc.

Superfly was £1300 and weighed 11.5kg when I raced CX on it with lightweight CX tyres and chopped down bars. Doesn't ride heavy though.

I haven't found the maintenance a pain, although don't ride it much I guess. Reslly need to get forks serviced I suppose..

My gravel bike is 90% as fast as a road bike, but it'll handle some fairly rough offroad along with the standard gravel roads. And it was only £1400 for a 9.6kg bike.

The biggest difference over a road bike are the 650b 47mm tyres, flared, wider bars, and the slightly slacker geo all of which makes it more capable offroad. The 650b tyres are barely slower on the road, and probably only when going at a decent speed.

With a FS bike and a gravel bike/road bike it's pretty much the perfect combo. I am very tempted to add a hardtail but mainly as a winter bike so my FS bike doesn't get caked in mud for 6 months of the year.

GCN did a video on this last year.

I should qualify my statement, my hardtail is a 9kg full race spec kinda thing that I luckily didn't have to pay much for, this is what makes it fast enough to cover a wide range of riding and makes it similar to a gravel bike...a normal Hardtail would be slower, still nice though. I hanker for a gravel bike which would be ideal for Lakes type roads and be good for forrest tracks, grassy stuff and maybe some rockier trails if the wrists can survive...a good Alu frame gravel could do this for a fraction of the cost of the above and could be similar speed.

You'll find a gravel bike or mountain bike noticeably slower on the road compared to a decent road bike so you might be disappointed either way.

Choosing between a hardtail and a gravel bike for me, it comes down to what trails (or lack of) you have on your doorstep and the way you like to ride the climbs and descents.

If you're pretty cautious and like to pick your way down a descent and often get off on the steep stuff and really enjoy a climb then the gravel bike (or even a cross bike) would probably best suit you. But if you love to ease off the brakes and attack the descents but find climbing a means to an end then choose a mountain bike.

Ultimately though (as been said many times) all bikes are a compromise and picking which one suits yourself best is variable and quite a personal thing and can change to your mood or even the weather. Probably why some people own so many bikes (says a man with five bikes).

Years ago, there were bikes called 'hybrids'. They were kinda like a cross between an MTB and a road bike. Sound like a new niche?

I reckon my Sonder Ti, flat bar, rigid bike with 40c 29er tyres on is pretty good all round. Sort of like a hybrid.

Sorry, I didn't tell you which one I'd pick between the two.

Well, er probably neither. If I had to only have one bike between the bikes I have (cross, rigid MTB, full sus, hardtail and road bike) I'd pick my rigid Stooge as it puts a smile on my face every time I ride it and despite being a weighty beast it rides lovely and isn't all that slow either.

I had a hybrid Ridgeback when I worked in London and I hated it as it was (for me) the worst of both worlds. It sucked the joy out of cycling. It was pretty cheap though.

Years ago, there were bikes called ‘hybrids’.

I really don't think thats right the geo is different, they can take bigger tyres and also don't weigh the same as a car.

I feel a lot of people say oh just get a ht it will be just as fast are thinking with a mountain bike brains. Or just a general hate for anything that isn't a mountain bike. Yesterday I did like 30miles from my door (zone 2 London) taking in roads, woodland, bridal way and cutting through a few parks on a mountain bike it would have been hard work and WAY over biked. Gravel bikes are just fun and if all you want to do it spin from your door take in pretty much anything apart from serious trail riding a gravel bike is perfect.

CX bike, then you don't have the ignominy of owning a gravel bike.

But yeah, from your previous posts sounds like you already have mountain bikes covered so get a drop bar that can cope with a bit of off road. Hardtail with slicks will just have you wishing you had some proper tyres on it for the good bits

You don't have to go as far as slicks to make a hardtail reasonably fast on tarmac or gravel - something like Specialized Hardpack are decent off road without being too draggy on-road.

I've not got a drop barred gravel bike but I do have a flat bar Roadrat with 700cx40 gravel tyres on and that's fun to ride on or off-road and fairly capable off-road as well. It is noticeable though that my XC style bikes are faster than it (they're also lighter though) on most off-road sections - all my current KOM's are rideable on gravel bikes but the KOM was set on a mountain bike.

Either. Then regret your decision and hanker after the other. Six months later swap to the other... And end up regretting that too.

Oddly enough the one bike I'm not missing at present is a HT MTB.
I have a FS and a gravel bike (and 2 road bikes).

The Gravel bike can go anywhere (and could accept a pair of road wheels if necessary), but has its limitations with rougher stuff of course. The FS covers the gnarlier end of things, I don't actually miss the HT...

So yeah, buy two bikes.

CX bike, then you don’t have the ignominy of owning a gravel bike.

Do you not think CX bikes are just a little too uncomfortable for long rides. I mean they are designed as race bikes to be really nimble. This video highlights a few reasons why a gravel bike is better than a CX bike for gravel riding

For me the term gravel needs to change I live down south and there are very few gravel roads unlike America where they have miles and miles of gravel fire road. Most my "gravel" riding is through really tame woodlands.

Having got a gravel bike (Kona Sutra Ltd so basically a drop bar 90s mtb with better geometry) at the start of lockdown and ridden it a lot during the no-gnar period I can honestly say I’ll probably never bother with my rigid mtb or hardtail ever again. I’ll keep my fs for proper mountains and fun days out but for most exercise routes that are a mixture of back road, gravel and singletrack the gravel bike is wonderful.

I ride a rigid carbon 29er (Scott Scale) which, in effect, could be thought of as a gravel bike, but is more capable offroad, and more fun, but admittedly a tad slower on road (which doesn't matter to me these days...). It's 9kg so as light as any equivalent gravel bike.

Either. Then regret your decision and hanker after the other. Six months later swap to the other… And end up regretting that too.

^

Truth. Storytime.

When I was younger I was beyond happy with an ATB for all manner of shenanner. Every mark earned, every mile loved and every vice versa’d. I rode everywhere to ride, to commute, to have fun and to explore lanes, mountains, distance, local woods. Whatever came along.

Then in the 90s I started reading MBUK. Began overfeeding my happy brain the whatifs and expensives and lookits. Not so happy then. Look what other people ride. Look how I can grade up! The rest is twistory. A merry-go-round of near-misses. An imperfect pursuit of perfection. I needed that ATBtitude again. The nearest I got to sating it since has been with CAAD3 on semislicks or a rigid 29er (2X, 2.1 Nanos, with or without drops) There is the rub. With or without drops.

Years ago, there were bikes called ‘hybrids’.

Joint 1st the worse bike I ever had*. Narrow tyre clearance. Weird gearing. Weird geo. Boneshaking heavy POS with tiny flat bars. Ugh. Just the memory of it makes me angry. Full disclosure - it WAS a Raleigh X1, new at the time (early 2ks when they had first gone virtually BSO). Your hybrid may vary. Still, I had to ride it 25 miles daily for two years until I couldn’t bear it any longer. Solved it by selling and buying a 2001 Cannondale F500 + some fat semi-slicks. Better in every way (except for fork-servicing issues - but the lockout worked so rode it rigid)

*other being Pashley PDQ (WTaF)

If speed/performance is your ultimate goal then stick with an expensive roadbike for roads and an expensive FS for offroad.

If versatility and simplicity is your goal then there are almost endless options. Too many, even.

Having watched that GCN video I'd say my bike is actually in-between those two. It weighs the same as the gravel bike, has 2.1 Thunderburt on rear and 2.1 racing Ralph on the front so probably rolls closer to the gravel bike (I can keep up with most riders on road bikes), yet with finesse is properly capable off road. In fact if you combined all of their tests into one big mixed terrain 1-2hr long ride I bet my bike would finish way ahead.

Which probably explains why it's my favourite bike, I can ride from home doing roads that are now so rough a road bike is not the tool for the job (my local roads are so rippled and potholed that a sus fork is applicable) It's light and fast enough that a 40mile road loop on the road if it's wet won't irritate - but usually I'll incorporate some ace offroad single track and remote hills, and the bike is in it's element, like it's in the early 90's...

Thing is that when I get to the offroad bits, it's rough enough that i'm not convinced that a gravel bike would be that good - I'm thinking it would either have to be a twangy Ti frame with clearance for something like the 2.1 Thunderburt, or something with active suspension like the new Diverge.

Main reason for wanting to try something different is to get more hand positions, as flat bars do get uncomfortable after a while. Too wide for bar ends, but could be solved by centre bar ends or mini aero bars.

The correct answer is n+1.

It's always going to be a massive compromise. Especially somewhere like the lakes where there's a massive jump between road and off-road. It's less gravel and more rocks.

A fast hardtail is never going to make a good road bike whatever tyres you put on it. It will be adequate and it'll feel quick enough, relatively speaking. But riding an MTB of any kind just isn't like riding a quick road or gravel bike.

And as much as I love the versatility of 'gravel' bikes, I'm not a fan of riding them off-road for the sake of it. They're great for opening up more options and it's my most used bike, but I don't gain a lot of pleasure from bouncing around rocky singletrack on them, holding on for dear life. Way more fun on a bike designed to do that in my opinion.

There are the MTB/Gravel hybrids of course - think Hardtail with drop bars and rigid forks. Things like the Salsa Cutthroat.

There's nothing that will do everything without compromise, so you either accept that, work out what your riding will weighted towards and buy something in that ballpark, or get yourself 2 bikes.

Main reason for wanting to try something different is to get more hand positions, as flat bars do get uncomfortable after a while. Too wide for bar ends, but could be solved by centre bar ends or mini aero bars.

I get this. Currently settled on med/narrow ie 620mm (carbon) flat bars with Ergon GP2 bar ends. Have some GP3 in the post as doing a lot of climbing and could do with more grip.

Still missing the Vagabond/drop-bar fun though. Partially remedied by bagging an old-but-good tourer for peanuts and then fitting with 3mm bar-tape. Doesn’t help my storage problems, but at least have two quite different options (1 for speed, comfort and distance on multi-surface runs - 1 for bikepacking, light MTB/local trails/roughstuff and options for 29+ everything)

Have a look at the Koga Satori bars?

The answer lies in how good you are at riding a gravel bike.

Modern mountain biking be it FS or HT is much quicker than it used to be, but I think that's a function of the equipment available rather than any great change in skill or talent. Gravel bikes are beefed up CX bikes, rigid and drop barred, and represent a less capable off road machine than a modern HT.

Can you ride what you want to ride on it?

I recently built up a “spare” frame as a sort of gravel bike on steroids (or at least on big tyres) and to be honest what it did for me was help define the point where gravel bikes don’t really work: if the trail is challenging enough that 700x42ish tyres don’t cut it but fat knobbies do, then it’s also challenging enough that drop bars become the thing that holds you back. Round my way that’s not a big deal because we have lots of earthy singletrack and I can avoid the steep and rooty/rocky climbs, but in the Lakes personally I’d be leaning more towards flat bars, ie an MTB, to avoid being too constrained by the bike. Maybe tri bars for the road sections if you can live with the aesthetics…?

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if the trail is challenging enough that 700x42ish tyres don’t cut it but fat knobbies do, then it’s also challenging enough that drop bars become the thing that holds you back.

Totally agree. For me, drop bars are more restrictive than the rest of the bike. Great for cruising over gravel and dirt roads or covering large distances at speed. Not great for anything properly technical.

It may be that covering those distances is the thing that is important to you and you just endure the technical sections in between, but again, it all comes down to your riding and what you want out of it.

I would just get the bike you like riding the most. Pretty much any bike can be used on road and gravel and as presumably you are riding for enjoyment then pick the type of bike you enjoy riding.

If you like riding drop bars and the handling feel of road bike like geometry then gravel bike, if you like flat/riser bars, front suspension and MTB geometry then get the MTB.

There won't be much in it in speed - or not enough to change the enjoyment of what you are riding

Agreed, here's the future of rough terrain 'gravel', a bike that can do everything surprisingly well...medium irony intended.

if the trail is challenging enough that 700x42ish tyres don’t cut it but fat knobbies do, then it’s also challenging enough that drop bars become the thing that holds you back.

Totally agree. For me, drop bars are more restrictive than the rest of the bike. Great for cruising over gravel and dirt roads or covering large distances at speed. Not great for anything properly technical.

Yep - I came here to write this too. I've been riding my XC hardtail with some On One Mickey bars (which do push it to about 10kg..) as a gravel bike for the last few months. Reckon it's similar speed on road to my 9kg gravel bike when on the loops, but so much more fun and more controllable on anything remotely off road. Loops give handy space for bikepacking-style packs too.

If it is the bars that are the only problem then a flat barred gravel bike would sort that out.

I prefer riding flat bars to drops as I enjoy the steering and handing more and it makes lifting front wheel, hopping over things etc,. more fun. Whenever I see people bunny hopping on drop bars it just looks awkward and I know if feels awkward having done it.
I do agree that the single hand position of flat bars is not great for long rides though but as I never ride over 2 hours that is not a problem in my case.

If it is the bars that are the only problem then a flat barred gravel bike would sort that out.

But then if it's only the bars that are a problem then you've already got large-volume knobby tyres, which means if you put flat bars on then we can probably call it an MTB 🙂

That bike I posted above has been built up with flat bars (MTB in my book) and drops (gravel bike with unusually beefy tyres), but the frameset is actually designed/marketed as a city hybrid, so all the boundaries (as if they existed) are shot to shit anyway 🙂

Anyway, I think it just gets us to the point that your two main decisions (based on your local terrain and what you want to do) are tyres and bars, and anything else is just gravy.

Wide tyre capacity gravel bike (say 29x2.1) with a dropper. All bases covered without the weight and complexity of a HT with sus fork. Cruise the tarmac & have fun seeing how tech you can get off road (plus dropper is also great for road descents too)

If it is the bars that are the only problem then a flat barred gravel bike would sort that out.

+1 on this. I have flat bars on mine and its perfect. I have had drop bars in the past and just never used the drops so got rid with my latest bike.

Wow! Lots to think about. I’ve been riding mountain bikes since 1985 and I suppose my first specialized rockhopper was really a gravel bike with flat bars!

Still no clearer. Maybe I’ll test ride a gravel bike and see. Getting old so being hammered downhill doesn’t really appeal. I thought maybe an 80mm fork would be nice.

What about an e-gravel? Would that get me 50 to 100 miles on and off roAd on a charge get me to explore further and be different from the Full sus?. Or am I joining the dark side there?

What flat barred steel frame gravel bike then?

Do you not think CX bikes are just a little too uncomfortable for long rides.

Mine is effectively a CX bike with 40mm tyres. The biggest compromise was the low front end, I wanted something suitable for 6 hour days and my ropey lower back so just jacked the bars up with spacers and a 14degree stem.

Other than that, it's still an aluminium CX bike but it rides great. I use it more as a gravel tourer than a race bike but don't have any issues with nippy handling.

[i]If you’re pretty cautious and like to pick your way down a descent and often get off on the steep stuff and really enjoy a climb then the gravel bike (or even a cross bike) would probably best suit you. But if you love to ease off the brakes and attack the descents but find climbing a means to an end then choose a mountain bike.[/i]
If you are a cautious descender with a tendency to get off on the steep bits, a gravel bike is not for you...you'll end up walking a lot more! Descents get a lot more exciting, normally in a good way, but not always 🙂

[i]Hybrids[/i]
Generally refers to cheap BSO's or mountain bikes without suspension.

[i]Drop Bars[/i]
To get the best out of a gravel bike I think you really need to get confident in the drops. Hard climbs, fast rough trails and steep descents are much more secure in the drops as you can wrap your hands around the bars and have more leverage on the brake levers. I avoid riding any of the above on the hoods as there is not much to grip, you are resting on them.

But then if it’s only the bars that are a problem then you’ve already got large-volume knobby tyres, which means if you put flat bars on then we can probably call it an MTB

I don't really care what you call it. To me the difference between the basis of a gravel bike and the basis of an MTB are clear. A gravel bike with flat bars on it is just that and it doesn't become an MTB just because of the bars (geometry, suspension, riding position etc,.)