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I'm thinking of getting a gravel bike, I have one currently with cantilever brakes but want to enter the modern age!
I have no intention of ever riding this bike on the roads, after being knocked off by cars a few times I am very happy just sticking to gravel trails. The options I am looking at are:
1) Cotic cascade (silver build with a dropper)
2) Sonder camino ti (because its titanium)
Does anyone have any thoughts / experience of these two bikes? Or other suggestions? My budget is about 2.5k.
Cheers
£2.6k including a fancy wheel upgrade.
Don't know if you know but Sonder (at least at the Ilkley store) run a decent demo fleet to try before you buy?
Cheers, I'm down in Hampshire so it might be a bit of a trek for a demo ride, I might see if there is anywhere closer though. I know cotic sometimes does demo days down this way.
Just found out there is a Kingston store, so I can get there, thanks for the heads up, that will really help!
The cannondale is an amazing deal, but I don't really like carbon, I know its an amazing material etc, I would just rather a steel or ti bike. I think I am a bit of a luddite!
I have a Cascade and love it. Very capable off road, really good fun and comfortable for big miles.
Another vote for the Cascade. Its toward the beefier end of gravel, but if youre spending most of your time off the tarmac you'll not notice. Deffo with the dropper too.
If you can't get a demo, I believe Cotic still do a love-it-or-money-back guarantee type thing....?
One of my favourite ever machines.
Another Cascade fan here, I've done 80mile Road rides to rocky Lakeland passes on mine and loves a singletrack. Run mine with specialized fast traks 2.35 so smooths out any trail. Its a bike that just wants to go and play.
<p>That Topstone that Scotroutes linked has to be one if the best bargains around..</p>
The topstone is a lot more towards the roadie end of the gravel spectrum compared to the Camino, and especially the Cascade.
It's aluminium, but what about the fustle causeway?
[stealth ad] There's a nice Fearless Warlock in the classifieds! [/stealth ad]
That Topstone is a greater deal but I obviously have to recommend what I have which is a Fairlight Secan. Prices here:
Topstone. It's a brilliant bike and deal.
I’d be inclined to go with the Cotic but a Kona Sutra LTD is another alternative which is quite similar to the Cascade. The Cotic gives you the option to chop and change on component choices though so they would swing it for me.
Edit. Isn’t the Cascade silver build with a dropper £2,800? You can pick up a Sutra LTD that comes with a dropper as standard for £2,240, which might swing it back the other way for me as the extra £500 could go a long way to upgrades (or anything else for that matter). Most of the Cascades won’t be in the country until October too so I’d rather have the Sutra in a few days.
I reviewed a cascade, liked it so much I bought one. It's great fun. The Ti Camino will be lighter though & my aluminium version is a great riding bike too.
https://ukgravelco.com/cotic-cascade-review/
I went from a steel to titanium frame for my gravel bike/ commuter.
I didn't notice any difference in the frame material.
The swap from 35c to 50c tyres was much more noticeable from a comfort and control point of view.
Based on that, I'd suggest the one with biggest tyre clearance. You don't have to run big tyres, but if you decide you want bigger tyres the frame will be the biggest limiting factor.
As above. Tyres, gearing and position matter way more than frame material
I speculate that the aluminium Camino with electronic 1x12 might be a good compromise. I haven’t seen a 1x11 seen that would work well for me yet
...Tyres, gearing and position matter way more than frame material
I speculate that the aluminium Camino with electronic 1×12 might be a good compromise...
I think I'd share that view, I'm generally a "Ti-sceptic" for bike frames expensive, crack prone trinkety (IMO), Steel makes good sense, but you might as well take the lower weight/cost of aluminium and focus the budget on wheels, tyres and drivetrain. Carbon makes sense if you're not nervous about dropping it off-road, but you will eventually drop a gravel bike...
Some of the Camino builds offer pretty good VFM I reckon.
I got a Camino (alloy one though) a few weeks back and I'm very happy with it. Mine is tiagra 2x and I upgraded the wheels to the alphas, and swapped out the crap tyres immediately. About £1,600 all in. Great value.
Thank you for all of the advice, lots to think about!
Do CRC still have that vitus with the rs suspension fork for £1100?
That could be perfect for you if you're fully off road.
We have a Camino (AL) and a Topstone 1 in the garage.
My Camino has been faultless and a joy to live with.
My wife's Topstone has been fine but she's had a couple of niggles with it, the rear wheel on them is an issue when the bearings need replacing, we've had to replace a gear cable due to routing issue where the outer kept catching where it went in to the frame stop, the axles are made of cheese and have both been replaced and the hanger has been replaced twice - once due to a knock (fair enough) and originally because the thread didn't line up properly with the frame / axle. The little screw also doesn't hold it on properly.
Nothing major but a bit annoying.
Just found out there is a Kingston store, so I can get there, thanks for the heads up, that will really help!
I've been in the Kingston Alpkit store the people in it are really friendly and they will basically built a bike to your spec if you want something different, had a good range of demo bikes too.
No experience of the frames that you link to OP. My advice would be to get a frame with plenty of clearance. I like to run 45mm x 29 on the gravel bike for comfort and grip. The frame I have even lets me do this with a full guard fitted.
Also consider fitting the Redshift shock stem; it takes away alot of trail buzz and further improves comfort/ fatigue.
I ride a PX FreeRanger and have zero complaints.
Nukeproof Digger comes in different flavours. It can come with a dropper and suspension fork if you want the full fat, gnarly gravel version.
Another fan of the Camino, having had my ally rival 1 knicked a couple of weeks ago I have replaced it (it came on Monday of this week) with another but this time a Camino Ti ASX etap rival 1.
I have to say it’s a cracker of a ride and I had a smile from ear to ear when I got back last night.
I'm also looking for recommendations but on a smaller budget - sub £2000, ideally £1500.
It will be mainly used for commuting on road with 10% gravel paths. Currently got an old Boardman hybrid with 28mm tyres which is pretty perfect for the job but it's tired and needs some parts replaced which I'm not really wanting to spend money on.
I would like the flexibility of being able to take longer, off-road routes home, perhaps some weekend gravel rides and a bit of touring with a rack and panniers.
The Sonder Camino looks great...I would just need to decide on what build. I have spent ages looking at gearing and whether I need a 2x setup or a 1x setup. I'm not super fast on road and won't be using it for anything too steep and technical (I don't think) so I think both would do. I just wonder if a 1x would be limiting for road riding and possible touring with panniers. I like the look and simplicity of it though.
Sonder Camino AL
https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-camino-al-v3-grx1
I also like the look of this Specialized Diverge:
https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/specialized/diverge-e5-elite-2022-gravel-bike-917060
Cannondale Topstone 2 also looks good:
https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/cannondale/topstone-2-2023-gravel-bike-911603#colcode=91160318
I have no idea how to decide! Wouldn't be able to have a look at the Sonder but could see what the LBS have in stock of the Specialized or Cannondale.
You could build/buy a really, really nicely specced alloy Camino.
I'm less and less convinced of the benefits of steel/ti over alloy frames these days particularly when you are talking off-road capable tyres.
Have a look at their sales Caminos at under £1,500.00 with Rival 1, they are incredible value.
At the monent they have a medium and a large at that price.
Those are very different bikes to be honest
The Cotic is an XC mountain bike with a short reach. Massive tyre clearance (29 x 2.4" I guess?) and it'll take a suspension fork if you wanted
The Sonder is a gravel bike, albeit with lots of clearance (700c x 50mm I think?)
You probably need to decide which direction you want to go in. If you are going to be 100% offroad, the Cotic may be better, unless your offroad will actually be well surfaced gravel roads and bridleways, in which case you may prefer the speedier ride of the Sonder
FYI, for options somewhere between those, there's the Pipedream Alice, Kona Sutra, and Genesis Vagabond
salsa fargo ti would be a smart option. I know where there is a xl frame or build for sale.......
With a £2.5k budget I would be straight onto Fairlight for a shiny purple Secan. One day!
I recommend a Secan,I'm biased though 👌
I’m less and less convinced of the benefits of steel/ti over alloy frames these days particularly when you are talking off-road capable tyres.
If we're talking about vertical give, sure, I agree. But there's also flex that's twist along the frame's length to consider.
Biketart is selling Genesis Fugio 20's for £1599 just now. Overpriced at RRP but much better value now...
https://www.biketart.com/products/genesis-fugio-20?variant=40809245180083
I bought a Genesis Fugio 10 alloy at the beginning of 2021 and it has been a fab bike.
I also like the look of this Specialized Diverge:
That's the newer version of my Diverge and it's brilliant*.
(*Disclaimer - I'm obviously biased.)
bruceandhisbonus
The Sonder Camino looks great…I would just need to decide on what build. I have spent ages looking at gearing and whether I need a 2x setup or a 1x setup.
I bought a Camino earlier this year and really struggled to decide between 1x or 2x. My mountain bikes are still 3x9 and my road bike it 2x9 so I had no experience of a 1x drivetrain.
However, looking at the ratios, you lose very little with 1x - it's just the gaps between the gears that is larger. Becuase of this, I decided to go the 1x route & am really happy with it.
Personally I find it absolutely fine on the road and was surprised how quickly I adapted to the gearing & jumps between them. Not done any touring on it though.
Out of the two options mentioned in the original post, the Cascade. Not just because I've got one, but also because I'm now wary of titanium after my titanium Titus Mutsu (aka Sonder Broken Road) cracked.
Very happy with my Cascade for almost exclusively offroad use so far.
I did a gravel sportive last Sunday on my cantilever braked gravel bike and I realised a couple of things.
Cantilever brakes really don't stop you when your 90+kg and used to hydro discs on a mtb.
11-26 cassette on the back is CX gearing NOT gravel gearing on the SDW
I really struggled with the drop handlebars on anything other than fairly smooth gravel tracks. I don't have much technical ability.
Had lots of fun and enjoyed getting out and riding on trails, I just need to ride enough to decide if I prefer drop handlebars or straight, which will affect the choice of bike.
Have you had experience of riding drops on road bikes? How long have you had yr existing gravel bike?
If not long, it might be worth persevering with them. But definitely make that call before spaffing out on a new bike, yeah.
I'm an ex roadie, so a fair bit of experience, but haven't ridden seriously for years. Everything was fine on the gravel rod sections, but there were some downhill singletrack sections that had me 'concerned'.
I'm going to perservere, but I hadn't realised it would even be an issue, so quite glad of the sportive ride!
SDW has some exciting rutted and loose flint noduley downhills which had my then 26" HT bucking a bit last time I rode the middle section... on a gravel bike, slowing down when going down, to build confidence would be my approach 🙂
My Giant Revolt on 40mm Cadex AR tyres seems to cope fine with the SE bridleways I mostly ride. I see they've just chopped £750 off the list price (Advanced 0)... But it's a CF frame..
YetimanFree Member
@bruceandhisbonusBiketart is selling Genesis Fugio 20’s for £1599 just now. Overpriced at RRP but much better value now…
Genesis Fugio 20
I bought a Genesis Fugio 10 alloy at the beginning of 2021 and it has been a fab bike.
@Yetiman I absolutely love the paint on that bike so it has become an option to look at. Ideally I think I'd like 700c wheels as I will be doing a lot of road miles. Maybe just less aggressive tyres on this would do the job though.
I'm in Edinburgh on Sunday so I'm going to go into the Alpkit shop to look at the Sonder Camino. I will see if any other Edinburgh shops have alternatives as well.
Sorry to the OP for hijacking the thread. I've probably confused things coming in with a different budget and should've started another thread.
Cantilever brakes really don’t stop you when your 90+kg and used to hydro discs on a mtb.
Indeed - my first 'gravel' experiences were on canti's and it was not pleasant!
11-26 cassette on the back is CX gearing NOT gravel gearing on the SDW
Sounds like most gearing on "gravel" bikes. I really do wonder if the designers/specifiers have ever given the bikes to average rider and pointed them at proper hills....
I really struggled with the drop handlebars on anything other than fairly smooth gravel tracks. I don’t have much technical ability.
I found that a flared bar and different reach/shape was better, but after three years of riding drops I am still not convinced for my riding. That said, I now can easily get into drops and ride some properly gnarly bits when needed.
Had lots of fun and enjoyed getting out and riding on trails,
😎😎😎
Normally hate Alu bikes, but tested and have bought a alu camino. It’s an absolute blast, and have it specc’d with 2x 105Di2 for less than an entry level Ti.
I’m more ‘road’ end of gravel but took it around the Bristol Ashton court mtb trails without a single sketchy moment.
I use the hoods for anything gnarly as the flared bars on the Revolt have little splay and I feel like I put too much weight over the front and have less ability to move weight backwards off the saddle. I can also reach the levers more comfortably from the hoods...
On the road I use the drops a fair bit.
If you’re in Hampshire worth popping into woods Cyclery bike shop in Lyndhurst. They are pretty well versed on gravel bikes and have demo bikes available. They have recently had some ex hire salsa gravel bikes for sale. They’re a nice bunch and well worth a visit. If you can’t get up to Kingston, sonder demos are aLeo available at the Bristol store up in Clifton.
Also some bargain Bombtrack hook ext and ext c on the Lyon site
https://www.lyonequipment.com/bikes/pgr/bombtrack-hook-ext-c-glossy-black-my22__2880
I currently have a Camino Ti V2 & a Spesh Diverge. Both are great bikes so could recommend either. Sonder were very good to deal with during the purchase of the camino but I am Lakes based, so I have a couple of stores nearby. i ride the Spesh more on the road than I do the Sonder, and the Spesh is happy to keep up with my roadie mates on their bikes. The spesh runs 1 x 10 and the Sonder 1 x 11, but its no difference really.
Before these I did have an Orange RX9 which again was a cracking bike, it was great off road.