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It's where we're all headed.
#backtothefuture
Jobst Brandt was doing gravel way before gravel was a thing!
CaptainFlashheart
Jobst Brandt was doing gravel way before gravel was a thing!
We were all doing gravel before gravel was a thing, however we called it Rough Stuff, but was Jobst Brandt manufacturing gravel/ATB bikes like Charlie Cunningham?
Great pic BTW. 🙂
True!
Geoff Apps was though, at or around 77/8.
Didn't Tomac race a gravel bike in DH?
Jobst Brandt was at the same time as Cunningham mid-late seventies according to Mr Ritchey in this rather good video
Jackie Phelan...
Would put our preening gravel nonsense to shame.
Didn’t Tomac race a gravel bike in DH?
Nope. MTB with drops to mimic/mirror his road position. (Pro roadie as well! Bit special)
always ready to thumbs up some monstergraventurecross. 👍🏼👍🏼
Interesting read and fascinating guy
Anyone able to tell me where that pic of Jobst Brandt was taken?
Anyone able to tell me where that pic of Jobst Brandt was taken?
Its the Gavia
Cheers Gary! Amazing pic.
This was the Breezer ATB/MTB in '77, makes Charlie Cunningham's bike look firmly in the all-road ATB camp in comparison. Probably ridden on the same trails though. Look at the start line here, Pearl Pass Tour 1980 (Tom Ritchey in red?)
Geoff Apps bikes are much more tech/off-road focused for low speed trials sort of riding, like an independent evolution of the family tree.
We were all doing gravel before gravel was a thing,
The bike precedes the tarmacing of roads so it started as gravel biking. Road riding came later once we had surfaced roads to ride on.
i read about an english gent travelling across america back in the 1800's on a penny farthing (thomas stephens). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Stevens_(cyclist)
people have been riding off road since day one i think.
not trying to start an argument about who created what bike or discipline i must add. i just though it was badass to ride a penny farthing across the untamed american wilderness.
That PinkBike article is enlightening.
Is it me, or has the road bike influence pulled us back for the first 20 years of MTB?
apologies misspelled thomas stevens name in previous post. i blame insanity and just not being with it atm due to waking up not long ago.
Is it me, or has the road bike influence pulled us back for the first 20 years of MTB?
It's an interesting question. I often wonder if we got diverted off course. In the early 80s the first bikes I road and saw had wide bars, shortish stems even slackish head angles. My second bike had narrow bars, a steeper head angle and longer stem. It was terrifying downhill. Watching mountain biking the untold story I wondered if the problems started as the racing seen profesionalised. With the bikes becoming less capable but faster to win races on unchallenging terrain.
But memory is a fickle thing. How do others remember it?
I would reflect similar - my first Raleigh with wide bull bars and relaxed head angle second hand in 1991 was replaced in 1996 by a narrow bar, steep angled, head down AlCarter, as was the fashion...
Is it me, or has the road bike influence pulled us back for the first 20 years of MTB?
Road standards did. QR wheels and brake design being among the most obvious examples.
The bike precedes the tarmacing of roads so it started as gravel biking. Road riding came later once we had surfaced roads to ride on.
Exactly, and the Tour De France was a gravel race. A very long and hard gravel race where the riders used to race for 30 hours a day, get up before they went to bed etc,.
ampthill
The bike precedes the tarmacing of roads so it started as gravel biking.
True, and it was the pressure by cyclists that lead to better roads, which then enabled cars to go fast, and next thing we know we're back onto the gravel. 🙂
Historically, a path racer bike from around the early 1900s makes a pretty good gravel bike. Just add decent brakes for the non fixed riders amongst us.
I'd happily ride one of these from the Wright Bros (before they built planes)
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In the early 80s the first bikes I road and saw had wide bars, shortish stems even slackish head angles. My second bike had narrow bars, a steeper head angle and longer stem.
That is because the 80's MTBs were all terrain bicycles so slacker, wider bars etc,. as that made sense. The 90's bikes you are referring to were XC bikes where more head down, narrower bars (with bar ends) made sense as it was about riding fairly easy courses as fast as possible so aero and bike position closer to a road position was better. There weren't great for more technical stuff but the races didn't really have that.
A very long and hard gravel race where the riders used to race for 30 hours a day, get up before they went to bed etc,.
Luxury.
Road standards did. QR wheels and brake design being among the most obvious examples
Of course that is true. I'm more interested in the bits that builders had control over. It would be really intresting to see how good a bike could have neem made in say 1990 with the bit sthat had access to
Watching mountain biking the untold story I wondered if the problems started as the racing seen profesionalised.
Problems? That's a bit of a narrow minded viewpoint.
Those early XC bikes were good at what they were designed to do, which was cover ground fast (wheel size notwithstanding) and climb well. MTBing itself was different in those days. Now my local hills are full of steep techie home-made trails put in by MTBers that simply were not there 25 years ago. So our bikes weren't made for them. The evolution of bikes has been a chicken/egg situation since it started with bikes, trails, attitudes, budgets and the size of the industry all gradually shifting in response to each other. It's not a case of older bikes being 'wrong'. Except with the small wheels thing 🙂 But even that was due to the state of the industry earlier on, because the choice was forced by availability of tyres.
It would be really intresting to see how good a bike could have neem made in say 1990 with the bit sthat had access to
Define 'good'. You wouldn't have made a long slack bike then, because without suspension you wouldn't have been going fast enough to get any benefit from it.
Define ‘good’. You wouldn’t have made a long slack bike then, because without suspension you wouldn’t have been going fast enough to get any benefit from it.
Well i suppose that is my question. If you look at modern rigid bikes they don't have a a long stem narrow bars and a short top tube. I think a Boot zipper has top tube 70mm longer than the Kona I bought in the 1990 (in my size)
Lots of the trails we ride today in the Lakes and Peak say haven't changed. I don't think a 1990 cross country bike was great for this sort of riding. I think it was good for riding round a field and the rest of us had to make do.
I'll restate my question more clearly. With the parts available in the early 1990s could we have made bike that were better for lakes bridleways. I think the answer is yes as the 1980s bikes were a actually better on this terrain
These guys are a bit late to the party in 1987, but tackling some fairly tough gravel with a conventional road bike.
ampthill
With the parts available in the early 1990s could we have made bike that were better for lakes bridleways. I think the answer is yes as the 1980s bikes were a actually better on this terrain
I think we'll find it as simple as being the bikes we had for offroad before the start of the circular process of trails getting massaged to make mtbs riding more exciting/interesting, and then mtbs massaged to make them capable of handling the features, and so on.
I see gravel bikes as occupying that space be they dropbar or flat bar, that's their terrain.