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We have a small woodland about a 10 minute ride from home . People have ridden bikes there for as long as I can remember . Kids have a small jump area that is monitored by NT any unsafe features are removed . Beyond that they don't interfere Over the years I've tried to keep the place tidy , reported back any damage to gates fences etc . Always worked with whoever was the Ranger at the time , last year introduced myself to the latest Ranger offered to help volunteering which was appreciated but NT wasn't able to arrange it at the time .
Anyway yesterday the Ranger was up there strimming a grass clearing . I put my hand up as I rode by she nodded , all good . As I got to the road and elderly couple were just clearing up . She saw me blocked my way and proceeded to tell me I was breaking the law 🙄Despite me trying to explain my previous history up there she was having none of it , in the end I called her an old misery and rode off .Â
I formed an opinion rightly or wrongly , good old dyed in the wool middle class NT lifer . Thankfully the modern version of the NT has a more open policy towards the countryside and it's users ( I think) After all it's not as if they aren't in need of all elements of society. We get the member mag regularly it still seems by and large to cling to that old style member with the certain type of advertising and articles .Â
There's a certain group of folks that you meet out in the country-side that feel 1.entitled to give you their opinion on what you're doing, and 2. expect that you stop because they don't like it, regardless of the legality, or frequency of either you or them being there in the past or future. They want to enjoy the open air in a very singular and specific way, and if you don't conform to that, you're wrong.Â
Move along, there's nothing to be gained by engaging with them. Â
Tory toadies in tweeds.
Unelected leaders with power over large bits of the countryside.
Possibly the biggest erectors of no bike signs.
Why would any cyclist be member?
But, for balance, different people have different routines and that couple could be up there just as often to do their bit and are entitled to have an opinion. It just happens to be at odds with the OP.
I volunteer as a path rep for a local access group that is very rambler based. You'll often hear moans about cyclists on the footpaths from other volunteers, and technically speaking they're not wrong. When I started I politely accepted the little signs for 'no cycling' but I never take them out with me.
As above, there's nothing to be gained from arguing with them. They're all unlikely to change stance as us. Even if the NT is endeavoring to open up it's locations to broader use.
When I started I politely accepted the little signs for 'no cycling' but I never take them out with me.
We had a spate of these obvious keen amateur no cycling signs appear around us a few years ago. Those particular places are ones I normally ride/rode out of peak times. Quickly whipping out my multitool and/or Swiss army knife and they were neatly removed, stashed in my pack and lobbed in the bin when I got home. They never reappeared.
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We had a spate of these obvious keen amateur no cycling signs appear around us a few years ago.
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Us too.
Seems local riders could remove them faster than they could replace them.
I still have one as a trophy on the fridge door years later.
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Do we know that the couple were National Trust members?
National Trust polo shirts and doing work for them so that's my assumptionÂ
Why would any cyclist be member?
There's an argument that it's better to be on the inside working with them (or at least pushing for more recognition / a less anti-cycling attitude) than it is to be on the outside shouting at the clouds.
Members have clout, get to vote in their AGMs, they generally want to keep them onside. Plus the free parking at NT sites for members is always handy. 😉
Sounds like you just met some over-enthusiastic jobsworths, who don't actually represent the stance of NT itself. Frustrating and annoying, but keep up the positive dialogue you have with the people who count/have greater influence (=the Ranger).
Agree with the removal of no cycling signs where you see them. I make a point of removing them if I see them. Saw a home-made laminated sign on a bridleway saying "cyclists max 5mph" speed limit icon kind of thing - ripped it off the tree (and kept it for disposal at home) and proceeded to accelerate to multiples of 5mph. But within the safety of what I could see and on an empty trail. Just didn't need a d!*khead sign making up limitations.
National Trust polo shirts and doing work for them so that's my assumptionÂ
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Probably got them embroidered themselves, like the fake copper in Little Britain. 🤣
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Why would any cyclist be member?
Well personally my dad was a manager in the trust for 40+ years and still rides his Trek Powerfly over the Yorkshire Dales. So that's one at least.
Then there's places like Badbury clump, which is both an Iron Age hillfort and teeming with MTB trails and jumps. free parking for NT members. Quite how they're allowed to get away with so much trail building on an archeological site is a happy mystery.
There's all the family friendly cycling stuff, Calke Abbey built / upgraded 10km of cycle trail, it's not gnarrr but it's busy with families all summer.
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But apart from that, what have the Romans NT ever done for us?
She might be right, it might be against the law.Â
NT own some common land near me. There are byelaws covering access which include: walkers get to ramble wherever they like, dogs on leads at certain times, bikes keep to bridleways. But bikes don't keep to bridleways, there's a long history of trail riding and quite a number of trails. There have been clampdowns when trail building has got out of hand (covid), but there's clear evidence that biking outside the scope of the byelaws is tolerated by the landowner. Â
It seems moto/dirtbikes are tolerated too, in a certain area off the BOAT. Earlier this year, some riders started taking the piss and going all over, and that's also been met with a proportionate clampdown. Â
You might have similar byelaws covering your patch of woods. But given the NT's clear tolerance, the only sensible response to "That's illegal!" is the ever-marvellous: "Yes, silly, isn't it?"Â
Why would any cyclist be member?
The mood music coming out of the NT (if not always the reality e.g. Lyme) is towards improved cycling access, then there are places like Blickling/Nostell with way-marked family bike paths (albeit with dog walkers walking up them having ignored the signs). The membership (including people on here) has also done a good job of voting in favour of bike access against the Restore Trust headbangers
The mood music coming out of the NT (if not always the reality e.g. Lyme) is towards improved cycling access,
Lyme offer discounts in the cafe if you arrive on foot or by bike. I'm not sure how they're policing that but (as far as I can tell) it's a bit a nudge in the right direction given Lyme's famously overcrowded parking situation (in spite of the fact it's on at least a couple of bus routes and has a train station next door).
I tell them that sice brexit the eu cant tell me where I can't ride my bike.
The inner conflict this inflicts to some of them can actually cause them to combust.
mood music coming out of the NT
certainly the case in norn iron with NT properties promoting bikes on trails etc, including Castle Ward estate and Divis / Black Mountain 'behind' Belfast--good to see:
"That's illegal!" is the ever-marvellous: "Yes, silly, isn't it?"Â
As promoted by Simon Barnes late of this parish.
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given Lyme's famously overcrowded parking situation (in spite of the fact it's on at least a couple of bus routes and has a train station next door).
Lyme did at one stage have a proposal to build the biggest surface car park in the Peaks, despite being on bus/rail routes and having the canal towpath nearby
But given the NT's clear tolerance, the only sensible response to "That's illegal!" is the ever-marvellous: "Yes, silly, isn't it?"Â
Possible but highly unlikely it's illegal. The correct response is not to agree with their made up opinions & instead stop and educate them. Some people won't listen, but others will & we need those concerts on our side. If you really must shout something at them then "trespass is a civil offence you moron" would be better, at least you're not admitting to breaking fairytale laws.Â
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If you really must shout something at them then "trespass is a civil offence you moron" would be better, at least you're not admitting to breaking fairytale laws.Â
Ask them if they are the landowner or an appointed representative of the landowner.*
Because only the landowner can actually tell you that you can't be riding there.
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* This really only works if you can tell they're not such a person. If they're actually wearing NT uniform, you're possibly not going to win that argument!
Ask them if they are the landowner or an appointed representative of the landowner.*
Because only the landowner can actually tell you that you can't be riding there.Â
* This really only works if you can tell they're not such a person. If they're actually wearing NT uniform, you're possibly not going to win that argument!
I'm not sure they can even tell you that you cant ride, only that you must leave.Â
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They do a lovely scone?
Did. Sadly they have just decided to outsource their scone and cake making.
Properly sad. Had a delightful scone, clotted cream and jam yesterday at kinver edge, literally straight out of the oven.
Possible but highly unlikely it's illegal. The correct response is not to agree with their made up opinionsÂ
IF there are local byelaws saying you can't ride bikes except on bridleways, then it is illegal. And anyone can point that out (If...) . It's just a statement of fact. They can be cross at you as well if they like. They might not be able to ask you to leave with any authority, but that's a different matter.
& instead stop and educate them.
It's not going to go well trying to educate someone about who knows more than you about legality - if you're accusing them of "made up opinions", and they've got a copy of the access byelaws in their pocket.
You could go further and talk about why the laws are there and why they need to change; the rights and benefits of proportionate, peaceful protest if you like. But again, that's a different conversation and starts from a different place.
All this given the best of my knowledge after a bit of reading around about criminal vs civil law, illegal vs unlawful. Bye-laws = local laws = laws all the same. If you're doing something in breach of those laws, then your actions are illegal. bylaws for my local patch of NT common land mean that cheeky trail riding, cheeky moto riding, cheeky sur-ron riding, picking flowers, camping, letting your dog off the leash in may, whatever else = illegal.Â
Check what the sitch is locally before you get stuck into an argument with someone, otherwise you risk being that guy who's condescending and wrong, which is an awful combo. Â
For transparency: I am regularly in breach of local byelaws and quite likely to be again tomorrow.
You want illegal, I'll give you illegal!
National Trust Byelaws 1965. I hope there's a more recent update.
Just some trivia to start with:
No person shall skate on rollers in any car park on Trust Property or on
any road owned by the National Trust and on which vehicular traffic is permitted by
the National Trust.
No unauthorised person shall pitch, erect.... clothes-line...other erection or obstruction whatsoever.
Then on to the serious stuff. Grandad, leave your gramophone alone:
In the open air on any Trust Property, after having been requested to desist by any,
person on Trust Property who is disturbed by the sound of the instrument operate or
cause or suffer to be operated any wireless set, television set, tape recorder,
gramophone, amplifier or similar instrument, or operate or play upon any noisy or
musical instrument.
And stop playing with your organ, it's illegal:
No unauthorised person shall bring on to Trust Property any swing, roundabout.
organ or other like thing.
Seriously though, who has trained their dogs on NT land? You are all criminals:
No unauthorised person shall, except in any such place as may, from time to time
be set apart by the National Trust for the purpose, break in or train or race any horse, dog or other animal.
Oh shit, I'll hand myself in now:
No person shall on Trust Property use any indecent or obscene language to the
annoyance of any person.
Crims everywhere. It's no wonder I think that stately homes are hives of scum and villainy!:
No unauthorised person shall without the permission of the National Trust: Take any photograph in any Trust Building.
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