Going from 135mm rear travel bike to 170mm

Difficult.

I'm fortunate to have a short- and long-travel FSer - currently a Tallboy (140/120) and G1 (170/162). On local trails the Tallboy's more fun and I choose it most of the time. G1 is brilliant for days at the Golfie, Dunkeld, etc and overseas trips BUT it's still fun on the same local trails the Tallboy excels on. As much fun? Probably more accurately a different sort of fun - my local trails are quite varied and there's bits that favour short-travel and bits that favour long-travel. Guess what I'm concluding is it depends on your local trails...

I started with a G15 (160/145), then a G16 (160/155) before the G1. All the same/similar build. The G1's more fun overall as it's more capable for very similar overall weight. Not sure if that helps or not TBH!

Yep, sell the hardtail and get an enduro sled.

I've settled on a 140/160mm trail bike and a 160/180mm enduro bike for my gnar-shredding needs now.

Nice to have the extra comfort and safety margin of the enduro bike when I want it.

You not tempted by the latest G1?

I’m sure there are lots of different opinions and experiences, but I personally wouldn’t go back to 130/140. My bikes are now all 160/170 and they are just capable and fun everywhere. I can do a family road ride (obviously 30-40 miles max as they aren’t efficient road bikes 🤣) one day and then hit big jump lines and rocky downhills the next. Makes me happy but I do a fair bit of stuff that, for me, really does need that travel 🙂

G13 and G1 owner here.

I basically agree with a11y up there.

I can and do ride the same trails on both bikes.

Just one is a bit faster on the downs one is a bit faster on the ups.

BTW your G13 is 130 mm travel unless you're running a different length shock on it?

I know you can long shock them with some offset bushes but then I think you end up with around 145mm.

If you really want a bigger bike though I think you'd like the G1 and they are pretty bomb proof if you plan on keeping it for a few years.

You not tempted by the latest G1?

Oh yes, but £3600 of the frame and shock is more than a second hand G1 

If you were looking for suggestions, I know my Bird Aeris 9 seemed similar in geo to the original G1 when I compared - and they are a fair bit cheaper (and very well built).

But only 160mm rear (optional 180mm linkage) and the sturdy frame means it needs to be ridden hard to come alive - but that may suit you if you're heavy as well as tall.

I've had my G13 since 2017. If I like a bike I like to keep it 😁

I've had a Cotic Flare Max with 150mm front & 132mm rear since 2018 and got a Specialized Kenevo SL eeb with 170mm front & 165mm rear 2.5 years ago.

Majority of my riding is Tweed Valley with occasional trips north.

The Cotic can do anything, the Spesh likewise but the Spesh just gives an extra level of 'safety' which means less likely to get caught out by an unseen 'feature'.

I still ride both but the for more mellow stuff the Cotic is more fun, especially once I took it back to more trail components & tyres, rather than the full enduro setup it had.

And under the n+1 theory, I did have both an HT and gravel bike.  The HT has now gone and the Cotic also serves for bikepacking.

i have a Chisel FS and Raaw Madonna. Both are amazing fun on the right trails. And as we know, you can technically ride anything anywhere, it just might be hard work and/or less fun. 

I often ride the Raaw where the Chisel would be better, but i just love riding the Madonna!

And modern enduro bikes are so good these days, i dont think you give up quite as much as you used to compared to a more zippy trail bike.

Add into the mix your hardtail says Sick Bikes on it, a perfect reason to throw it in the sea. 🙂

But yeah, defo ditch the HT and get a big bike.

Posted by: tall_martin

↑

I've had my G13 since 2017. If I like a bike I like to keep it

Yeah had mine since 2018 so I know what you mean. 👍 

Mojo used to do a Fox coil shock with custom setup to take the G13 to 150mm or thereabouts

Maybe not a "cheap" way to try, but picking up a discounted DHX and having them modify it might suit

Mojo used to do a Fox coil shock with custom setup to take the G13 to 150mm or thereabouts

They can't do this any more as they can't get the fox shock to start from.

My view has evolved over time, but even as someone who actually races enduros, an enduro bike is such a specialist tool now, they are largely pointless in the UK & actually, not much fun to ride, considering 90% of the time you are on one, it’s grinding up a hill.

I have a short travel bike (Epic8) which has better geometry than most of my old enduro bikes of 5 years ago, yet can race XC on it, trail ride it, essentially do anything, which is frighteningly fast & capable.

My trail bike is a Jibb V2, because I’m fed up of breaking bikes & wanted something reliable without too much travel which is more fun to ride than an enduro bike, apart from the fastest, ugliest flat out race tracks.

My big bike is an ebike, because I have no interest in pedalling a 170/160mm travel bike up hills, quite simply. 

So no, I wouldn’t ditch a trail bike for an enduro bike, in fact I’d actively avoid owning an enduro bike these days.

Why not go for big travel in that case - something like that new Atherton s170 with a 180mm Zeb / 38 on it. 

I went from a 150f / 130r Bird Aether 7 which I loved, to a 160f /155r Sentinel v2 (has a Cascade link on it). It can just absorb that bit more chunk than the Aether could - makes some trails I got down ok different - I can now pop and play on them whilst going faster at the same time.

I imagine going up a bit more travel again will absorb even more chunk - but perhaps try to get some test rides as bikes can ride very differently for the same travel.

Depends if you want an outright plow or something that’s still a little bit playful. 

My view has evolved over time, but even as someone who actually races enduros, an enduro bike is such a specialist tool now, they are largely pointless in the UK & actually, not much fun to ride, considering 90% of the time you are on one, it’s grinding up a hill.

That is an interesting take on it. My opinion is (or was) that enduro bikes have become so good that it isn't worth having a short travel full suss anymore as a decent, modern enduro bike with the right geo and a steep seat angle pedals about as well as I need it to. I can also take it to the alps, DYFI etc. It sounds like I might need to add to my fleet 🙂

Posted by: a11y

↑

Difficult.

I'm fortunate to have a short- and long-travel FSer - currently a Tallboy (140/120) and G1 (170/162). On local trails the Tallboy's more fun and I choose it most of the time. G1 is brilliant for days at the Golfie, Dunkeld, etc and overseas trips BUT it's still fun on the same local trails the Tallboy excels on. As much fun? Probably more accurately a different sort of fun - my local trails are quite varied and there's bits that favour short-travel and bits that favour long-travel. Guess what I'm concluding is it depends on your local trails...

I started with a G15 (160/145), then a G16 (160/155) before the G1. All the same/similar build. The G1's more fun overall as it's more capable for very similar overall weight. Not sure if that helps or not TBH!

Completely agree. I also have a tallboy that I use most of the time and a stumpy evo for the steeps and holidays. The tallboy is the most fun because it’s light and nimble. The stumpy looks after me on the steeps. Horses for courses

Looks like Vital just released a video for you OP

I did exactly that.

Bird Aether 7 to Airdrop Edit V4 with 170 fork and 168mm rear.

Do I regret it? No but yes, sometimes, maybe. 

I suppose it depends on where you ride the most, apart from proper fast and chunky stuff which is not my usual riding, there isn't that much in it for me.

I've done lots of local steep riding (Calderdale) on both and the Aether is probably better for that, maybe the less travel the esaier it is to move around? And BPW/Dyfi where the longer travel definitely inspires a bit more confidence but I still enjoyed the same trails.

I do think a lot of it is in your (my) head. When you are on a short travel bike you can sometimes convince yourself that a longer travel bike would make life better. That said, with decent suspension, the bigger bike pedals perfectly well.

My next bike will be around 160/150 and top of my list is silence.

The video was interesting but inconclusive.

Summary the short travel bike was faster uphill and downhill because the terrain didn't justify the bigger bike.

I use the heavy butchers for bike parks and lighter butchers for trail riding. All of the differences in in the video speed could just have come from the tires.

So thanks all😀

Thinks I've learned

-my bikes rear travel

-votes for medium and big bike 6

-votes for e bike 2

-votes for just a big bike 1

- votes for keeping the hardtail 0

- votes for chucking the hardtail in the sea 1 😱

I went from 100/100 to 160/150 and love it from a going down hill ability . However it could be the more relaxed geometry tat makes the real difference. 

I do kind of miss having to really think about line choice, but not going over the bars

i do fancy a shorter travel bike 120/120 ish

Edit: "Tallmartin" tells me what I need to know 🙂 

OP - What size is your Geometron? I've got a medium Transition Spire I'm looking to swap to something shorter (yours looks way too big for me to be honest)

Posted by: hooli

↑

My view has evolved over time, but even as someone who actually races enduros, an enduro bike is such a specialist tool now, they are largely pointless in the UK & actually, not much fun to ride, considering 90% of the time you are on one, it’s grinding up a hill.

That is an interesting take on it. My opinion is (or was) that enduro bikes have become so good that it isn't worth having a short travel full suss anymore as a decent, modern enduro bike with the right geo and a steep seat angle pedals about as well as I need it to. I can also take it to the alps, DYFI etc. It sounds like I might need to add to my fleet 🙂

That depends on your definition of ‘short travel’. But I’d counter it & say modern trail bikes, or the resurgence of AM bikes are so good nowadays, unless you live in the big mountains, they are largely pointless.

It’s the age old thing of having the right bike for 95% of your riding, rather than the 5%. 

Posted by: tall_martin

↑

Summary the short travel bike was faster uphill and downhill because the terrain didn't justify the bigger bike.

Which is probably the reality for 95%+ people, if they were actually honest with themselves & what they are using it for.

Posted by: tall_martin

↑

The G13 is fine everywhere I ride I just wonder if a bigger travel bike would be more fun/ faster.

 

I suppose it depends on whether you find faster = more fun

I'm unconvinced, I like my 125mm travel FlareMAX partly because it doesn't swallow everything in its path, I rode a Rocket for a few hours on the same terrain - Dark Peak - and actually liked the more involved feel of my own bike. I had a riding buddy with a longer-travel Geometron and he was able to straightline all sorts of stuff that my FlareMAX couldn't, but I'm not overly convinced he was having 'more fun'. In fact he ended up de-building it and mostly riding a long-ish travel forked ti hardtail because it was more involving. 

I suspect it comes down to how you're wired and how/where you ride. Could you maybe demo a longer travel full sus maybe and see where you fall on the fast/fun continuum?

ps: on the hardtail, I'd swap it for a shorter travel, lighter, faster one 🙂 

I'm not sure there will be enough difference between the G13 and a bigger bike to justify having both. I was in a similar sort of scenario when I bought a Nukeproof Giga and had a 150/145 "trail" bike, they were too similar and I've replaced the trail bike with a more downcountry bike with 140/130 and a more xc build. Fwiw I'd still keep the hardtail but repaint it to cover the logo's!

I too am in the less travel = better in the UK camp. There aren’t many places that a lls trail bike in the 130-150mm range can’t cope with well. But, if i was rich enough i would have a 160-180mm bike too for bike park days and foreign trips. Some of the Others I ride with have 160mm bikes and as eager amateurs we are all broadly comparable on UK rides! Just get the one you fancy my guess is you’ll love either and get used to either - and it won’t make loads of difference! 

@tops5

My geometron is XL with a 530m reach. My mate has a XL spire and I've than is one of the bikes I'm considering.

Posted by: tall_martin

↑

Posted by: tall_martin

↑

 

Summary the short travel bike was faster uphill and downhill because the terrain didn't justify the bigger bike.

 

 

Which is probably the reality for 95%+ people, if they were actually honest with themselves & what they are using it for.

Yes I do suspect that 160/130 is enough for 95% of my riding.

Posted by: BadlyWiredDog

↑

ps: on the hardtail, I'd swap it for a shorter travel, lighter, faster one 🙂

I ride a On one Vandal with a ridgid fork and gravel tires as a commuter. I rode that over the local single track on this week. Apart from the jumps and downhill bits it was more than enough. The massive d lock and bag of work tat did take some of the enjoyment out of things.somewhat. 

My take on it, if I’m going to ride a full suss, it might as well be 140-160mm rear travel, it doesn’t need to be heavy.

You can put some big forks/burly wheels on for big days and Alp trips.

Hardtail for  smoother trails. Although in the spring I rode hardtail everywhere as the full suss was out of action. 

Posted by: tall_martin

↑

Further afield I get to bike park Wales and the Dyfi maybe 4 times a year.

Then hire something those days. No way I’d be buying a complete bike for 4 days a year. 
If anything, I’d be getting rid of that hardtail and buying something shorter travel. Either a hardtail or full sus xc bike with 120mm forks. I bought a last gen Epic Evo last summer and it does 90% of what my Sentinel did, but a lot more nimble, faster and definitely more fun. The  other 10% I can still ride, just have to be more careful. Modern xc stuff is surprisingly capable, especially on smooth, jumpy stuff that you say you have locally. 

Then hire something those days. No way I’d be buying a complete bike for 4 days a year. 

Yeah, but it sounds as if he's likely to ride an enduro bike locally as well.

I'll be taking mine out this eve on local trails where it's not strictly required, just because it's fun.

Secondhand frame and nick the fork & kit off that LT hardtail monstrosity is the way I'd go.

Thanks for the suggestions 😁 

I've gone for a second hand G1.

It's XXL, which at 6'4 tall might be a bit big. I bought it from a 6'7 bloke who had to duck through the doors in his house.

First impression is, it's massive and very similar to my G13.

First ride Friday after work and first ride down some steep stuff Sunday morning.

It all looks ace, except for the tires which are on the way out.

Excellent choice. It was inevitable 😀 

I'm very happy on my secondhand G1, same generation.

Nice! After lusting after a G1 for years, the second hadn't price of the Gen 1 bikes was reachable.

Best bike I've ever owned, and I mostly blame that there a11y coz it was him that made me do it 😉 

I was recently 6'5", but apparently have shrunk a bit with old age to 6'4" now, I went for an XL, but XXL would have been do-able with a shorter stem. Love how yours looks like a perfectly proportioned 26er 🙂