[Closed] Gnarly pedal-ly bits on a HT?

Im struggling to imagine what you mean? Like say sprinting along cut gate?

I get it a bit if I haven't ridden my ht for a while. Just a matter of picking a good line, carrying momentum and grabbing every safe opportunity to get a pedal in, even a half one. Bit different to just being able to plow through stuff on the fs.

Im struggling to imagine what you mean?

Everyone I've ridden with lately is on long (160/170 rear) travel FS... non of us are riding gods but I didn't expect to have to put in a lot of effort to keep or or be ahead on climbs... and unsurprisingly it works that way. Even my fit XC mate the HT is a great leveller going up.
I've also been riding my 100mm XC bike over summer.. mainly just solo or with the kid for exercise so not really pushing the pace where it gets uncomfortable.

I've been really pleasantly surprised going down even mostly keeping up with my kid who is very fast when he wants to be. (and dropping me is as motivated as he gets)
I've not hit a real DH yet but done the techy stuff at Rogate and Windhill... and surprised myself. I was a bit nervous hitting bigger drops for a while but once I'd done some I was fine and they were nowhere near as bad as I'd expected.

What I'd not expected was having to struggle to keep up with someone I can easily drop DH on more or less flat rooty stuff round Swinley. I was bouncing all over and my feet leaving the pedals...

warpcow

Just a matter of picking a good line, carrying momentum and grabbing every safe opportunity to get a pedal in, even a half one. Bit different to just being able to plow through stuff on the fs.

Yeah... I don't remember this though... probably because back then everyone was on HT's?

It was a bit surprising that I'd figured if I'm way faster on a DH than a 170/160 Enduro keeping up with the same person on the same bike on mild gradients should be easy.

Maybe I should have just tried to spot where I should pedal and not... and TBH usually I wouldn't care just in this case the person meant to be 'leading' the 'no drop ride' seemed to be trying to do entirely the opposite.

I'd say that's just how hardtails are, seated pedaling on rough terrain is the one real downside of a hardtail. Yes you can choose a better line and hop over roots etc but if you're doing it for any distance then it becomes quite tiring.

It’s amazing how much you can stay sat down pedalling on an R’s bike over relatively mundane rooty flat bits etc vs a hardtail where you’re going to get bounced all over the place.

Downhill you’re stood up and not pedalling so much so you notice it less I reckon.

I’ve been without hardtail a while but generally I tend to be faster everywhere bar fireroad / road climbs on my fs bike then the hardtail. That’s with the hardtail weighing about 4-5lbs lighter than the fs.

Just employ the pinball method.

I abondoned hardtail life about a year ago, but I think I know what you mean.

Descending can be surprisingly effective once you get your legs working properly to absorb the bumps - by tensing and relaxing them at the right moments.

But it's not really possible to do that at the same time as you're pedaling, and even if you're freewheeling on flatter ground the lack of rear suspension can just hang you up a bit more on stuff.

I'd just get as big tyres as you can and try to find the smoothest possible lines.

Additionally, I find riding clipped in much more beneficial on a hardtail and dropping your saddle just a touch to allow some room to hover over it on rougher sections.

What I’d not expected was having to struggle to keep up with someone I can easily drop DH on more or less flat rooty stuff round Swinley. I was bouncing all over and my feet leaving the pedals…

Ahh i see what you mean now! Yes, on my FS i tend to put the hammer down whilst seated and the rear end soaks up all the roots etc and keeps me on track. On my hardtail I tend to alternate between sitting and hovering as i hack my way around. I don't think i ever properly stand up though unless going down or freewheeling.

I find riding clipped in much more beneficial on a hardtail

^^^^^^^^^^^

I ride clips pretty much all the time but it definitely makes more difference on the hardtail than the full suss, being able to pull up when pedalling and unweight the back wheel makes a big difference

Keep riding it.....

You have yet to regain your hardtail chi after spoiling yourself on the full suss.

Pump the terrain more to maintain momentum? I tend to stand a bit if things get too rocky and rooty on relatively flat ground though.

I’d say that’s just how hardtails are, seated pedaling on rough terrain is the one real downside of a hardtail. Yes you can choose a better line and hop over roots etc but if you’re doing it for any distance then it becomes quite tiring.

Yep I'd given up on seated....

Additionally, I find riding clipped in much more beneficial on a hardtail and dropping your saddle just a touch to allow some room to hover over it on rougher sections.

I was wondering about clipped in. That's one thing I did in the good ole days...
I've got some 35yr? old Shimano shoes somewhere and could borrow some pedals to try off a mate.

Descending can be surprisingly effective once you get your legs working properly to absorb the bumps – by tensing and relaxing them at the right moments.

But it’s not really possible to do that at the same time as you’re pedaling, and even if you’re freewheeling on flatter ground the lack of rear suspension can just hang you up a bit more on stuff.

I’d just get as big tyres as you can and try to find the smoothest possible lines.

I can get up to +size on the back... indeed that day I was running Spec 2.3's (I had a fair road ride to get to Swinley) but at Bike Parks etc. I've been running a 2.5 (or Schwalbe 2.3 that is as big) and last 2x a bigger tyre on 30mm rims with an insert but I wasn't really trying to go fast on the flat stuff.

Keep riding it…..

You have yet to regain your hardtail chi after spoiling yourself on the full suss.

Yeah, I think this as well though the other tips should help.

It's actually LOADS of fun ... and I'm not usually in a rush anyway.

Go rigid singlespeed and just get off and run with your bike.

Clips are a must I think. I flip between flats and clips on full sus, but if want to pedal through rougher stuff, it's clips on the HT.

Clips are a must I think. I flip between flats and clips on full sus, but if want to pedal through rougher stuff, it’s clips on the HT.

I might borrow some pedals off my mate and use my old shimano shoes to give it a go.
I guess mostly I just thought I'd lost a technique or skill but I guess last time I really tried we were all on HT's anyway.

Standing on a slightly higher gear helps on bumpy bits, you're not spinning as much so you tend not to get bounced about as much. Clips are cheating your way around learning how to ride again 😉

Standing on a slightly higher gear helps on bumpy bits, you’re not spinning as much so you tend not to get bounced about as much.

I feel I was doing that anyway... though just seemed to happen? Possibly because it would maximise any cheeky pedal strokes perhaps.

Clips are cheating your way around learning how to ride again

I'm not that keen full time... mainly because my bailing technique is quite good (probably better than my riding) which helps at my age.. 😉 I've got quite good at just throwing the bike away... and the idea of unclipping first doesn't fill me with confidence.

you just have to 'float' above the saddle a little, its a case of taking a little weight off the saddle as/when needed in the rougher bits. As someone commented you cant just plow through it as you probably were with a FS. will be interesting to hear your thoughts once you are used to the HT and then go back to a FS, if you employ the same 'hover' techniques it will make you faster om both bikes.
i see far too many people relying on the bike to compensate for technique so good on you for going back and working on technique

you just have to ‘float’ above the saddle a little, its a case of taking a little weight off the saddle as/when needed in the rougher bits

I'm already stood up...

will be interesting to hear your thoughts once you are used to the HT and then go back to a FS

Well early thoughts are I haven't used either FS since....but I was thinking of this.
Especially DH it's performed way better than I expected. Once I chucked it down stuff I didn't die.. and mates have been pushing/sliding down behind me.

I ended up stopping (waiting for some of those mates) and ended up on a 5' drop to flat with almost no speed and thought sod it ... just went for it and it was nowhere near as harsh as I expected.

I'm loath to type it but my secret hope is once I go back onto the FS it will make my cohunes grow and I'll do some stuff that's scared me previously. I already did one thing that I've been avoiding when I broke my wrist on it in March on the HT and when I get decent weather I'm going to try another demon where I lost several teeth a couple of years ago and have avoided since. (Despite doing way bigger and harder elsewhere)

If already stood, seat down so you and the bike can move around independently. Helps me stay ‘agile’ and really notice the restriction when the seat is at full height.

Big tyres, i.e. 2.8/3" plus jobs, really help on a hardtail.
They absorb a lot of the smaller trail chatter and roots meaning you can hold your line better.
Plus tyres make far more sense on a HT over a FS.

I remember when I first got my Krampus (7 years ago now?) and the 3" tyres were a revelation.
I have 3 plus bikes these days, 1 x 27.5+ and 2 x 29+.

Pump everything, find every little downslope to pump, it’s extremely tiring at first but you get used to it.

I prefer riding on flat pedals with good shoes and pedals, when you find a pedal and shoe combination that works for you it will make all the difference.

- lower tyre pressures
- lower seat (a bit)
- hover above saddle
- pedal

It's very tiring!

Personally I hated being clipping in.

Big tyres, i.e. 2.8/3″ plus jobs, really help on a hardtail.
They absorb a lot of the smaller trail chatter and roots meaning you can hold your line better.
Plus tyres make far more sense on a HT over a FS.

Yeah appreciate that but to an extent I was more concerned it was my technique.
I can probably still improve lots but mostly its good to know I'm not the only one.
It's 10-20 miles to the trails each way and I'm not that fit so I'm not keen to go for bigger tyres... or I'd be knackered by the time I arrived and still have a pedal home.

I prefer riding on flat pedals with good shoes and pedals, when you find a pedal and shoe combination that works for you it will make all the difference.

I've been happy with my 5 ten Impact Pro's on Superstar with long pins (indeed it's a bit more than I usually want and tend to prefer either short pins and the stickiest or long pins and the normal stealth as it lasts longer)... and I'm still happy with that doing tech DH where I don't need to pedal on the HT.

Any more grip and repositioning my feet is nigh impossible.

I think either way I'll try and improve what I have skill wise and suck it up a bit.

It’s just familiarity to an extent too. I’ve been without a hardtail for about 4-5 months now and it’s going to be a shock when I finally get one back again I think. Hoping I’m not going to be disappointed as it’s going to be a decent spec / custom steel frame etc and I need to love it!

Clips are a must I think. I flip between flats and clips on full sus, but if want to pedal through rougher stuff, it’s clips on the HT.

Yeah so took the FS out today (for its last use until ???) and bumped into Mr Sampson for the 2nds day running. As he was sat on the start ramp I took the opportunity and he confirmed my worse nightmare... clipped in.

Didn't see this thread originally, but I went out with some of the MNPR riders a couple of weekends ago, and we rode St Georges lane right round from the Belmont end back to Horwich. On my hardtail, (everyone else on FS) OMG, it was horrific. (Felt like bloody) miles of close packed, sharp edge sets. Yet flat! Absolutely horrible, kept having to ride in the gutters and silted up puddles to try and smooth it out somewhat.

he confirmed my worse nightmare… clipped in

Yeah certainly my finding and I'm a big fan of flats. For me, I think it's weird but riding more FS bikes is what has driven me to it. Once you get used to riding fast on chundery trails where you need to pedal, it's hard to accept the limitations that a HT brings. Clips help with that hugely if your main focus is to ride as fast as you can. I fully appreciate that there are other objectives in riding HTs or bikes generally 😉