[Closed] Gloves and fullface for my 4yr old grandson..

[url] https://www.polaris-bikewear.co.uk/Mini-Trail-Childrens-Cycling-Glove-p/pol01-5739-p.htm [/url]

Polaris make some good small kids gloves, sorry no help on the full face though.

Halfords do decent kids full face if you can get to one for him to try on

Helmets for an yone - fit and weight are very important. Do not get a helmet that relies on a cradle to "make it fit" If you can get a finger between the shell and his head its too big and will be ineffective. Weight of helmets adds greatly to the risks of wearing one so get the lightest.

Its a shame the Culthard headsaver didn't take off. It was a very good design from these angfles

Been through exactly this. Ignore the flack you will likely get from the super parents on here whose children never needed helmets because they were "taught their limits"! Found a really good FF for our lad when he was 3. Will post details later when I can check the exact model. Think both ours use giro gloves.

Thats great, thanks for your help everyone.

@bella, i shall await details of your ff. Thanks

You could try these guys for kit, I think 4yrs is the starting point for their sizing.

https://www.shredxs.com/

Ignore the flack you will likely get from the super parents on here whose children never needed helmets because they were "taught their limits"!

At the same time, look for that evidence that young kids should be wearing a full face from the point of view of the extra weight, the extra leverage/rotational effect that the chin guard will have helping to snap their neck when they fall. (yes that last bit is my own thinking, but unless I am mistaken there is no evidence either way)

Dunc - there is evidence ( but disputed how serious it is) that helmets increase rotational injuries which are not mainly neck injuries but diffuse axon injuries which are the worst kid of brain injury

My kids have had several Giro helmets since they were very young (younger than your grandson) and I've always been able to get one that fitted really well. For me, the most important thing is that they have the adjustable, plastic webbing on the back as without this, it's nearly impossibly to get a helmet to fit properly. I've seen a few kids with those round skateboard helmets and they are simply useless - they just flap around in the wind and do nothing to protect the child's head.

I can't comment on either full-face helmets or rotational injuries (although the latter has struck me as a new way to charge more than £100 for a lump of expanded polystyrene) but, speaking personally, there's no way that I would let my kids ride their bikes without helmets. I'm a happy go lucky sort of person, but if there's one thing that will raise my ire, it's kids riding trail centres without helmets 🙁

Daern - if you can get a finger between the shell and the head the helmet is not going to be very effective - thats the issue with using cradles - its ok if the cradle is only taken in a bit and you can't get a finger in the gap but to use a cradled pulled right in so there is a huge gap at the back then you might as well not use one at all

The plastic mesh at the back doesn't take the place of the helmet, it more helps to position the helmet on the head to make sure that the skull is fitting snugly against the shell on the top, front and sides of the helmet, which is where you're mostly likely to take a hit. These are not the same as full-head cradles (often seen in those horrid skateboard helmets), which I would agree would make a poor substitute for a proper fitted helmet.

Helmets will never fit 100% - they are made in a range of sizes and require a degree of adjustment take-up - but I disagree that you can't get a decent fit using the adjustable plastic webbing at the back. The key is to make sure you're not too ambitious on sizing, and attempt to get their head into a helmet that really is too big for them.

My daughter kindly volunteered to model her helmet:
[img] [/img]
There's a small gap at the back, where the webbing is taking up some of the spare space in the helmet, but the fit overall is snug and the helmet is secure on her head.

[img] [/img]
You can see where the webbing doesn't form a complete skull cradle, but rather is used to push the head forward into the helmet and secure it to the base of the skull. Fitted right, the chin-strap is really only there as an extra security in the event of a crash, as the helmet shouldn't come adrift even with it undone.

No helmet fits perfectly, but these fit as well as any I've found. That said, I've just noticed that they are starting to look a little...badgered, so perhaps it's time for some new ones 🙂

Thats exactly what I mean. That space at the back will make the helmet less effective but its not nearly as bad as some I have seen. TRL reseach showed that helmets that use large shells ( not just restricted to children) and a cradle like that to take up slack lose much of their effectiveness when adjusted right in.

Its a real problem with kids helmets because a properly fitting one would be grown out of quickly. Ideally there should be no cradle at all - the shell should be sized to the head edit - like motorcycle helmets are

the cradle is not there to retain the helmet thats what the chinstrap is for. chinstrap should be done up tight as well

Thats exactly what I mean. That space at the back will make the helmet less effective but its not nearly as bad as some I have seen. TRL reseach showed that helmets that use large shells ( not just restricted to children) and a cradle like that to take up slack lose much of their effectiveness when adjusted right in.

Or, as it would be more commonly referred to, "the wrong size helmet". Kids helmets are made in a reasonable (although perhaps not wide enough) range of sizes and there's no excuse to not fish out the one that fits your child. It might mean swapping brands, or even bike shops to find one that fits, but it's well worth the effort.

The risk your sweeping statements make is that OP might read them and decide that there's no point in getting a helmet as none of them fit right. This would be an unfortunate decision to make based on your comments. I'm very careful to state that a child's helmet must be sized [i]and[/i] fitted correctly for it to be effective, but that wearing no helmet shouldn't be an option, especially for off-road use.

the cradle is not there to retain the helmet thats what the chinstrap is for. chinstrap should be done up tight as well

The correct fitting technique would be to setup the rear support so that the helmet is secure on the head before you adjust the straps. If you can't achieve a secure helmet without the straps, chances are it's the wrong size, or a poor fit. Only then should you adjust the straps, which shouldn't be tight - generally a one-finger gap would be acceptable, so as to not cause excessive discomfort to the rider.

I'm very careful to state that a child's helmet must be sized and fitted correctly for it to be effective,

and on that we agree. Trouble is IMO very few are and although its hard to see in that pic it looks to me like to much space at the back

I('d like to see those cradles made illegal as they allow people to think a helmet is fitted properly when it is not. Cycle helmets should be like motorcycle helmets with a large range of shell sizes especially for kids ones. trouble is that would increase costs significantly

I('d like to see those cradles made illegal as they allow people to think a helmet is fitted properly when it is not. Cycle helmets should be like motorcycle helmets with a large range of shell sizes especially for kids ones. trouble is that would increase costs significantly

I don't think I can agree with this here. I used to have helmets without a rear adjustment, and they were never as secure on the head - a relatively small knock on either side could easily cause the helmet to rotate left or right and, even worse, a crash to the front can cause the helmet to rotate backwards on the skull and leave the forehead exposed. The big benefit of these additional straps is that they help keep the helmet in the correct place both while riding and also in an impact, so that they can do their job correctly.

Years ago I had a Specialised "Sub 6 Pro", which was meant to be the lightest helmet that you could buy, and it was bloody awful - it perched on my head and no matter how carefully you set the straps, it was embarrassingly easy to push the helmet 6" off the front of the head. If you try this with any (correctly fitted) modern helmet, you'll find it nearly impossible.

Sadly, a side effect of this might allow (for example) an adult helmet to be adjusted down so that it appears to fit a child, even though the shell is too large, but this is absolutely not a reason to remove such an obvious improvement in helmet design.

Ok - so we agree on the main points just not the details 🙂 I don't think the cradles are an improvement - just a method to allow a small range of sizes of helmets seem to fit everyone. I'd prefer properly sized shells that fit properly without cradles.

Key things with helmets are shell size, fit, exterior without projections and weight. - can we agree on that?

Key things with helmets are shell size, fit, exterior without projections and weight. - can we agree on that?

No, damn it! I'm enjoying a good argument 🙂

OK, so yes, I agree with all of this, but I really do think that the rear adjuster is a positive benefit to helmet security [i]even[/i] if the helmet fits correctly.

As promised, Bell Sanction, small.

Thanks Bella