[Closed] Glentress - £20 to park a van ?!?

Same rule applies in numerous places.
Buses, vans, etc at afan are £6.

To be honest £20 is a joke but a minibus is clearly not a car.

Seems excessive and seems they would rather you took 4 cars as opposed to 1 minibus.

all the websites say £6 ... was just wondering if anyone had seen the £20 figure which seems awfully high.

Probably based on the number of seats.

Up to 8 in total and it's classed as a car.

9 and above its a minibus

16 and above its a coach.

The only way you get a T5 to be classed as a minibus is to have a "single + double" set up in the front.

Which is why mostly they have two singles in the front and two rows of three in the back, to keep them under the "minibus" classification.

Have you rang Glentress to see if that is the correct information or if the new parking Nazis have mucked it up?

If I remember correctly minibuses are more.
The old charges used to say large vans & minibuses were £6?

I've not had an issue with putting a £3 or £5 ticket on my transporter, yet!

Last year it was £12 for a mini-bus.
THough looking at the website it seems to have changed.

Glentress has several parking options. The trail head is at Glentress Peel visitor centre.

Car Parking Charges:

£2 for 1 hour – perfect if you’re stopping off for some food and refreshments in the café.
£5 per day (or £3.50 for 3 hours). This applies to all car parks at this location – Glentress Peel (over 100 spaces), Falla Brae, Buzzards Nest and our two overflow car parks.
You can pay car park charges by credit or debit card (with chip and pin) in the two Glentress Peel car parks and the Buzzard's Nest car park. If you prefer to pay by cash the machines accept all denomination coins but do not accept notes.

Tell him to ignore the "fine" (it's not a fine, it's an unenforceable invoice from a private company).

Tell him to ignore the "fine" (it's not a fine, it's an [s]unenforceable[/s] invoice from a private company).

It's not unenforceable.

They are just very unlikely to do anything to enforce it.

Tell them its a [i]lifestyle vehicle[/i] and not a converted overpriced van.

It's not unenforceable.

It is in Scotland

It's not unenforceable.

some bloke on the internet told me to ignore it so I did sir.

Parking law is different in Scotland to England.

FWIW I got a ticket because I never bothered to update my trailfairy pass last year, I filed it in the bin and have never heard from them again. Not that I'll encourage people not to pay the parking, you're a **** if you don't in general, but £20 for a car-size van is a pisstake.

If it has less than whatever the seats you get in a mini-bus then just inform them of the fact.

Less hassle, and no further grief.

It's not unenforceable.

They can take legal against the person not paying the invoice.

If the ruling goes against the person not paying the invoice, then it will be enforced.

Like I said, it not likely.

But it's not impossible.

Its FC land tho, my understanding is it's not the same as council or private, its set up under legislation you'd need to look at.

I'm told the fines are unenforceable tho!

I'm told the fines... Etc

Invoices 😉

They purport to be fines, so I call them fines.

They are not invoices.

You can call them tuna sandwiches if you like. Doesn't mean they'll come in handy if you get peckish post-ride.

In England at least, they do not "purport" to be fines, for to do so would be illegal. In Scotlandshire I've no idea.

My t5 is a car. The v5 tells me so, and that let's it do 70 on the motorway....

Whole world of pain for parking nazis

What would you call them then Cougar?

They're ineffective, it doesn't really matter, id say "purported fine" is the best.

Saying that calling them fines "is illegal" is meaningless btw, but I know you like the phrase.

Who is the putspurced company? In Scotland parking charge notices are unenforeable. They will threaten with letters etc, but all you need to do is ignore them. They did the same for the hospitals here and various shopping centres.

As I said above - it may not be the same as private land.

In this case I'd be talking to forestry about their contractor, seems like they are being over zealous and could do with a word from their contact supervisor. What would help is a pic of the sign to confirm if there is a >x seats rule displayed (sure someone could oblige). The parking company is there to make money, they forestry is there to make sure the whole thing works well. If the person running the contracts has to spend too long dealing with complaints they will probably do something.

*A Complaint is not valid if you whinge because you missed something obvious and didn't buy a ticket intentionally.

Steveoath, it's those lovely chaps Parkingeye, long term experts at obtaining money with menaces.

The people say they are "unenforceable" (in Scotland)

What happens if they decide to take you to court ?

Now I'm not saying that it's likely, but it does happen, occasionally.

Does that not count as it being "enforced" (if they win of course)

I'm not suggesting anyone should pay, and I've ignored. Parking Eye previously and they have gone away, like they usually do.

But to say the charges are "unenforceable" is a bit misleading, as they do have the option to take you to court, no matter how unlikely that is.

But to say the charges are "unenforceable" is a bit misleading, as they do have the option to take you to court, no matter how unlikely that is.

Wouldn't they have to prove they had suffered some sort of loss/damages?

This is a wonderful result of the FC a being driven to bring in more revenue - aren't market driven changes always an improvement?

If it's not from the council or the polis in scotland, it's only a request for payment. bin it. no idea what FC land comes under, but if it's a private company I'd bin it and ignore the subsequent letters.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/scotland/consumer_s/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_driving_and_parking_e/consumer_parking_tickets_s/parking_tickets_on_private_land_s.htm

popped a ticked on the VW T5 size Minibus

half the respondents refer to a T5. OP; is it a T5, or "T5 size minibus", ie. clearly a minibus as defined by number of seats, that just happens to have similar external dimensions to a VW T5? This might be significant.

What would you call them then Cougar?

Extortion? I'd probably call them invoices, given that that's what they are.

Saying that calling them fines "is illegal" is meaningless btw, but I know you like the phrase.

Well, if you want to split hairs it may or may not be illegal to actually[i] call[/i] them "fines", but semantics aside it [i] is[/i] illegal for a private company to issue fines. You'll be hard pressed to find a company, especially one as practiced as Parking Eye, refer to them as "fines" themselves any more, though it's not hard to find amended signs which have been reworded.

In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter what you call them, but it's a bit like the "road tax" argument in that by insisting on using misleading terminology you're propagating the very myth that they rely on to frighten people into ponying up excessively large sums of money.

Wouldn't they have to prove they had suffered some sort of loss/damages?

The initial loss would be the revenue they missed while someone was parked and not paying.

Then all costs involved in recovering that revenue would be added.

Then legal costs involved in taking it to court plus court fees.

[b]IF[/b] they took it court and won, that would be a fair bit.

Grum, get back under your bridge, not evetything is politically motivated. I can't speak about Glentress but I do know parking charges were introduced at Gisburn to recoup some of the money already invested in the trails and to provide funds to maintain the new free to use toilet facilities and ongoing trail maintenance. It'll be a long time if ever before the charges make a profit. In the meantime we are asked to contribute something to a facility heavily subsidised by a public body and the free labour provided by many volunteers.

Grum could it be some people parking were taking the piss?

Llandegla started putting a person doen the road selling parking. Partly due to machine theft? But maybe also people mis-interpretating their vehicle or not bothering altogether with a ticket.

Simple- how do you think the trails pay for themselves?

Is a fiver for a car not a bad trade-off for a great day out on miles of trails.

Recently I was at Cannock and a rider told me 'why pay we always park for free/ride in'. ****.

I was there last night.

Yep, £20 for a mini-bus but CBA to read what classifies a mini-bus as it was pi55ing down.

But, if I pay a fiver for one person then there only needs to be five or you for it to work out cheaper.

Or just park at the many free car parks around and ride in?

Grum, get back under your bridge, not evetything is politically motivated. I can't speak about Glentress but I do know parking charges were introduced at Gisburn to recoup some of the money already invested in the trails and to provide funds to maintain the new free to use toilet facilities and ongoing trail maintenance. It'll be a long time if ever before the charges make a profit. In the meantime we are asked to contribute something to a facility heavily subsidised by a public body and the free labour provided by many volunteers.

No need to be rude is there. Most public bodies like the FC are under pressure to bring in more revenue and act like businesses.

I'm all for paying for parking to help recoup money invested and I think people who duck parking fees are idiots. However making the parking fees exorbitant and outsourcing the operation to a company with a bad reputation isn't the way to go about things IMO.

Recently I was at Cannock and a rider told me 'why pay we always park for free/ride in'. ****.

What's wrong with that? It's a parking charge not a trail entry fee. Peronally at GT I prefer parking in one of the towns and riding in, and using the better quality shops / cafes. Also good to get a warm up for the climb.

The thing is, I wouldn't say £20 to park a Minibus full of school kids is "exorbitant"

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

It was described as "T5 sized" by the OP. But that seems unlikely, as thats too small to be a minibus, and would be very little use to a school as you could only get 7 kids in there.

More likely it was an actual minibus, and he paid the wrong fee.

People always moan about these unscrupulous parking companies but in general, if everyone paid for the parking as required, we would never know they existed would we.

It was described as "T5 sized" by the OP. But that seems unlikely, as thats too small to be a minibus, and would be very little use to a school as you could only get 7 kids in there.

More likely it was an actual minibus, and he paid the wrong fee.

You're reaching just a little there aren't you: 'I've decided these are the facts in order to suit my opinion'

People always moan about these unscrupulous parking companies but in general, if everyone paid for the parking as required, we would never know they existed would we.

I'm sure Parking Eye are great guys really - try googling 'Parking Eye bad reputation'.

You're reaching just a little there aren't you: 'I've decided these are the facts in order to suit my opinion'

Well, he said it was a Minibus didn't he ?
And minibuses cost £20.

Looks like he paid the wrong fee.

I'm sure Parking Eye are great guys really - try googling 'Parking Eye bad reputation'.

You will need to point out where I said they didn't have a bad reputation, because I'm pretty sure that's not what I said?

However, I'll hazard a guess, most of the people moaning about Parking Eye didn't pay the correct amount for their parking 😉

What's wrong with that? It's a parking charge not a trail entry fee. Peronally at GT I prefer parking in one of the towns and riding in, and using the better quality shops / cafes. Also good to get a warm up for the climb.

Hard to describe really but where does the revenue from the carparks go to? If I ride somewhere I'll shop in the trail cafe, pop into the shop and pay for carparking..and THATS at Cannock too, a place thats not my cup of tea.

Post ride, after that long ride back to your car do you shop or do you get on the road?

However, I'll hazard a guess, most of the people moaning about Parking Eye didn't pay the correct amount for their parking

Possibly - but then if they don't make it clear exactly what those charges are, and enforce them in a way that doesn't take into account fairness or common sense, then use cynical tactics to try and extract as much money as possible.....

But no, you carry on defending them in your usual passive-aggressive manner.

The OP states right up front it was a minibus, not a van. I haven't been since ParkingEye took over but minibuses were always charged more than vans. Seems reasonable if it's trail use you are paying for rather than car park space.

you carry on defending them

I'm not defending them. I've had tickets off them, as I said earlier.

But someone else said they looked at the charges, and confirmed mini buses are £20, so it can't be that unclear can it?

passive-aggressive manner.

🙄

See the disabled loos thread for further evidence neal. 😉

Usually pop into town for a cup of tea, fish n chips, pub, browse in bike shops.

See the disabled loos thread for further evidence neal.

Am I wrong?

Or aren't you bothered about the point I'm making ?

Wrong about what?

Usually pop into town for a cup of tea, fish n chips, pub, browse in bike shops.

Of course. You must be stuffed after all that food/tea/alcohol in you 😉

Grum- Llandegla used to be abusable parking. With a chap/chapette stood in the way now you've no choice but to pay.

If your paying the right amount who cares? The only thing I'd like to know is is there a time limit on parking at Glentress. i.e. what if you have a fall or mechanical. If your penalised for that- and made to pay still then its rank.

He paid the wrong parking fee.

He didn't pay for a minibus when he should have, and he got a ticket (invoice)

It's nothing to do with "evil parking company", it was his mistake.

hora - Member

Grum could it be some people parking were taking the piss?

It's exactly that tbh- I mean, personally I think it's badly handled but previously there was no enforcement and people took the piss, which impacts investment (and wasted tons of ranger time too). So now they've swung the other way and got in bed with the parking nazis.

Hard to describe really but where does the revenue from the carparks go to? If I ride somewhere I'll shop in the trail cafe, pop into the shop and pay for carparking..

Grum- Llandegla used to be abusable parking. With a chap/chapette stood in the way now you've no choice but to pay.

Seems like a good approach.

He paid the wrong parking fee.
He didn't pay for a minibus when he should have, and he got a ticket (invoice)
It's nothing to do with "evil parking company", it was his mistake.

So we're not allowed to talk about the wider issue of whether it's a good idea for a public body like the FC to get in bed with a shady parking company?

So now they've swung the other way and got in bed with the parking nazis.

I know 🙁

I'd like to know what happens if you have a mechanical though (and delayed getting back).

After all, its not as though you've been shopping in Next/M&S and forgot the time. There are factors out of your control due to the nature of the sport/location. I wonder if the FC USED THEIR BRAIN and just done all day tickets and not the 3hour option etc.

3 hour stay at kirroughtree, I need 3 hours just to stand at the top of the end of mcmoab looking at it and occasionally getting on and off my bike.

So we're not allowed to talk about the wider issue of whether it's a good idea for a public body like the FC to get in bed with a shady parking company?

You can talk about what you like. Who's stopping you.

You are the one who started quoting my posts and trying to pick holes in them ?

Look at the FC website for Glentress - no mention of a different minibus charge, no definition of what a minibus is defined as. But you've decided how many seats there must have been and that there is a universally accepted definition of what a minibus is, which obviously the OP HAS to be aware of.

And no criticism of a dubious parking company is ever warranted because it's ALWAYS the fault of the car park user.

You can talk about what you like. Who's stopping you.

You're trying to dictate what can legitimately be discussed in relation to the OP - classic controlling passive-aggressive behaviour. 😉

My t5 is a car. The v5 tells me so

Awesome, by that logic, my motorbike is a bicycle, my v5 tells me so. That's the last time I pedal up that hill!

[quote=grum ]Look at the FC website for Glentress - no mention of a different minibus charge, no definition of what a minibus is defined as. But you've decided how many seats there must have been and that there is a universally accepted definition of what a minibus is, which obviously the OP HAS to be aware of.

The OP said upfront it was a minibus, despite the title of this thread, so I don't think we need to discuss the definition....

Yep, it sounds like he paid the wrong amount and thus has been 'fined/invoiced'.

However, I believe that 20pounds for a minibus is wrong. They should be encouraging School kids/reducing cars, not making profit out of it.
Only my opinion of course, I'm sure plenty will disagree.

Ive got a T5 LWB which was a 9 seater but is now a 6 seater.. not that you can tell because the windows have been blacked out....

I have never had to pay minibus prices at gt nor have i had a ticket..

Should we really be paying for parking given that the FC is funded by the taxes everyone has already paid anyway? It isn't as if it is a private enterprise trying to recoup what it has spent, the fc is already paid for.

Look at the FC website for Glentress - no mention of a different minibus charge, no definition of what a minibus is defined as.

But according to a previous poster, that information is available at the car park.

But you've decided how many seats there must have been

The OP said it was a Minibus himself, so it's a minibus.

and that there is a universally accepted definition of what a minibus is,

Legally, there is.

which obviously the OP HAS to be aware of.

Not the OP, but the driver of the vehicle, and yes, he would be aware of it, because he would need to be insured appropriately, and if he's driving it for work, licensed appropriately too.

And no criticism of a dubious parking company is ever warranted because it's ALWAYS the fault of the car park user.

No sorry.

You made that bit up.

I didn't say that.

munrobiker - Member

Should we really be paying for parking given that the FC is funded by the taxes everyone has already paid anyway?

If you want the FC to spend money on bike trails then yes.

Northwind - Member
munrobiker - Member
Should we really be paying for parking given that the FC is funded by the taxes everyone has already paid anyway?

If you want the FC to spend money on bike trails then yes.

if the money went back into improving the facilities then paying for parking is absolutely fair enough.
In the specific example of glentress where parking eye "run" the car parking the money all goes to parking eye. I very much doubt parking eye has given a penny to fund any of the site at glentress. Indeed i would encourage people to park off site so as to not bolster parking eyes profit margins. Spend the money with local business instead of a company owned by Capita

You think that the FC aren't getting anything from the arrangement? That's, er, odd.

I'm sure the FC have contracted out the parking. I'm sure parking eye pay a small amount to the FC for the pleasure. It will be a tiny percentage of what the carpark makes but if you think that the money that goes into the machine goes directly back to trail maintenance then That's, er, odd.

I'd go along with that - I always pay to park at Cannock (unless it's late and they're shutting/shut). Three quid or whatever it seems peanuts as a contribution towards a facility I get so much out of

amazes me the lengths people go to avoid the rangers at Woburn. Burn a tenner's worth of diesel getting there, drag your £4K bike out the car, then skulk in the bushes like a sex offender when someone comes politely asking for £3 to cover liability insurance for the landowners 🙄

and that there is a universally accepted definition of what a minibus is,

Legally, there is

Indeed, you need "D1" on your driving licence to drive one. Which hasn't been automatically added for years now (I took my test ~12 years ago and don't have D1 on mine). This has become a problem for babylon/feds/po-po, as they have fleets of transit minibuses and a generation of officers not licenced to drive them-we're replacing ours with smaller Vivaros.

However, I believe that 20pounds for a minibus is wrong. They should be encouraging School kids/reducing cars, not making profit out of it.

That I do agree with.

Not related to the original post (sorry) but picking up on some of the other points raised. In my experience (Cannock) the increase in visitor numbers requires a more stringent parking enforcement procedure than a direct member of FC staff (usually a recreation ranger or warden) hence parking companies are brought in to administer the process (and take their fee no doubt).

The money raised (FC share) then goes into central funds as opposed to being spent as ‘cash’ on site but the revenue generated by the site then supports their internal case for additional funding to support recreation aspects of their location. This will include families, walkers, horse rider and mountain bikers. Likewise it helps to support the case for annual funding allocations to mountain bike trail construction, maintenance and management.

So yes the FC as a government body are already funded (to an extent) but the demands of what is a very positive approach to mountain bike trails requires a greater budget allocation which they get by showing that they are a worthwhile case to receive this funding.

There is no head honcho sat in the forest offices at Cannock counting all the car parking cash and not then spending it on the trails ;o)

Whether the best companies are chosen to administer the parking regime is a separate debate for me though.

So for a minibus it's £20 with potentially only 9 seats? But you could have a full car of five people for a fiver? Doesn't that encourage people not to use minibuses and take several cars instead, which is worse for the environment and takes up more space in the car park.

Sounds perfectly reasonable. 😕

So you've looked up this "universally accepted definition of what a minibus is" that I apparently made up

Awesome 😉

seosamh77 - Member

polis

It's [i]police[/i], seeing as your spell-checker obviously isn't working.

Well done on scoring a cheap point. 😉

It doesn't change the fact that £20 vs £5 makes no sense whatsoever, and I'd still like to know why it doesn't mention these minibus charges on the FC Glentress website. And a public body still shouldn't be operating in conjunction with a shady parking firm.

But you've won on the really important stuff, so well done.

It's the polis where I'm from.

Well done on scoring a cheap point.

Thanks.

(It was way more than one point, you just ignored the rest 😉 )

Like I said, it was you that started quoting my posts and trying to pick holes in them 😆

just explained that he was probably wrong in thinking he could park a minibus for the same price as a car.

For the smallest possible minibus, then I suppose it is a bit steep, although for a bigger minibus obviously it gets more reasonable.

And as for 1 bus vs multiple cars, It's not just parking charges you need to compare, it's fuel to get there too.

It's police, seeing as your spell-checker obviously isn't working.

Nope - definitely polis up here.

sbob - Member

It's police, seeing as your spell-checker obviously isn't working.

Like I say, the law's different in Scotland.