[Closed] Giving up the FS?

Keep the FS.

I don't care how quick or wonderful a HT is... they're horrific.

I've got to ride my HT this afternoon as Mrs Weeksy is on my FS, i'm dreading it. They're horrible lol

See, I'd say punt the FS on and get something else, either a belter HT or a (newer?) FS. Life's too short to be keeping or riding bikes you hate.

I went from FS to HT for a few years, and it was fine. Still enjoy a HT. But for more control I'd always pick the FS that I bought last year.
Saying that, I'd sooner have a sorted HT than a mediocre FS.

i much prefer my HT for 95% of my local riding.

I`d get one HT that suits your riding and has longer reach than your current crop. I like something low bb and short stays for dicking about on (climbing is not my forte) but if you are XC you might be better with a orange clockwork or something similar a bit more versitile.

south downs so not rocky but fairly rooty and the odd decent jump.

FS for away days but i`m toying with taking teh hT to BPW next time i get to go - just because really.

cheers.

Mark

I'm with @weeksy Hateful things. Five inch tyres make them bearable, but anything less than that and I'd rather walk. Each to their own though 🙂

I’d get a hardtail. I’m ditching my full sus, it’s a great bike, just overkill for my riding and skill level. Always preferred hardtails, not entirely sure why. I think maybe it’s because they require more focus and careful line choice. I just like that element of riding. YMMV

I was just in the Lakes, did some fast rocky descents (Walna Scar) and very techy rocky descents (Mardell Ill Bell and Nan Bield). Hard tail didn't hold me back at all.

But mine is a light, relatively slack ti 29er with Pike forks, so pretty 👍

I went through this exercise about 18 months ago. Sold a Giant Trance X I was not in love with and intended just to get a HT.

Went for a Cotic Bfe. It is fun to ride, lightish and confidence inspiring going downhill. It was supposed to be my only bike. But I then got the itch, bought a full suss frame and built up a Transition.

I rode my Bfe round Cwmcarn the other day and it felt like hard work. It also does not work as a 'winter harditail' with skinny mud tyres - you need the volume to help with the stiff frame. However, I know there are some fun 27.5+ HT bikes around that if I were doing it again, I would definitely consider.

My full suss is at least a kilo heavier (I have not measured, could be a lot more), but so much more fun to ride. It is also too much bike for most of the time (160mm round the Surrey Hills) but it pedals fine and I love it. I still like the HT though for the nimble woodland type riding - it does feel stiff, but that is only because I don't use it how it was intended to be used.

I don't have the space for two MTB's (well, that's not true, but it gets annoying quickly) so often change from HT to FS and then back again.

It's an itch that won't go away, scratch it. Yes, you'll often find a trail that would have been more fun/quicker on the FS.

I'm currently musing shopping in the FS for a Solaris.

I don’t have the space for two MTB’s (well, that’s not true, but it gets annoying quickly) so often change from HT to FS and then back again.

Me too. My FS is ace for going fast on bumpy stuff and flattering my meagre abilities, plus it's comfier on longer days out (because I'm old and weak), but I find a HT more engaging to ride more of the time.

Always preferred hardtails, not entirely sure why. I think maybe it’s because they require more focus and careful line choice. I just like that element of riding

Yes, I think this is where I'm at.

Partly I think I still haven't really got used to how a FS rides (and is meant to be ridden) differently. I suspect that I also probably need to check that my Prophet is set up properly. But I do like, and am more used to, that sense of 'connectedness' with the trail that a HT gives and a FS tends to smother out.

I'll willingly admit that I don't have a lot of FS experience to draw upon; aside from the Prophet, I 'looked after' a friend's Santa Cruz 5010 for a year, which was a much more 'sorted' ride and which didn't feel quite so heavy and energy-sapping as my Prophet seems to. So I wouldn't rule out (in theory) a well-sorted FS bike. But I'm reluctant to experiment (again), and also don't think I'd find something good/modern enough for my (nearly) cost-neutral requirements ...

maybe you just got the wrong FS? If you already have a decent build kit could you consider swapping frames to something more suitable for your riding?

maybe you just got the wrong FS? If you already have a decent build kit could you consider swapping frames to something more suitable for your riding?

Yeah. Possibly. But I got the Prophet partly based on it having a good reputation, a mate had one and raved about it. And partly because I got the frame, forks and wheels for a steal.

But it's 26er wheels - and no matter what people say (me included) about how 'small wheels' don't make a bad bike, having owned a 27.5, and known people who have made the switch to 29er and seen the significant benefits, I think there is limited mileage in further experimentation with 26er wheels

I was just in the Lakes, did some fast rocky descents (Walna Scar) and very techy rocky descents (Mardell Ill Bell and Nan Bield). Hard tail didn’t hold me back at all.

But mine is a light, relatively slack ti 29er with Pike forks, so pretty 👍

This, I think, is my ideal. But not achievable on a cost-neutral basis! 😔

ok, sounds like a not-so-successful venture so I understand your reluctance to continue putting money into it. My only MTB is a relatively short travel (140/130) but modern geo 27.5er which strikes a decent balance of being good to pedal and fun to descend on. It's a compromise in some ways but covers pretty much all I want to do on fat tyres, tempted though I am by a 29er HT... I get my HT kicks on my g'bike 🙂

Given the situation you describe I'd chop in the two MTBs for one that suits a higher proportion of your riding... I suppose only you can decide if that should be a HT or FS but it's possibly worth noting the a the Prophet is perhaps at the longer travel/"wallowey" end of things and that maybe a more efficient, shorter travel FS might suit you better.

I had decided (12-18 months ago) that just having a HT for all my MTBing needs was the way forwards, but recently I've been coming round to the idea of something with 4-5" of rear travel and more modern geometry. Unfortunately the bike I Really want is perhaps a little beyond my current means, but it's made me evaluate what I do want from an MTB again...

HTs are great I'd rather have a HT than no MTB, but when you do want to get a bit tasty off-road a wee bit of rear bounce isn't the worst thing either and can make longer days pedalling and techy climbing less of a chore/fatiguing...

Or as another intermediate option there are 'plus' tyres, a shade more grip/traction/comfort from a bigger volume tyre (and the option to switch to 29" tyres for distance efforts too?) on a HT is another compromise that you could consider as well...

I don’t get how hardtails suddenly need to have plus tyres. I rode a 26” wheeled Bfe for years and didn’t die. It was great fun too.

The thing is with a nice hardtail there is very little faffing. Set fork up and tyre pressures vaguely where they feel good. On the full sus I’m constantly fiddling with the rear shock settings and plus bikes only seem good if the tyre pressure is exactly right. I always come back to a hardtail and I’m even contemplating rigid.

Get a decent FS, not an older, shorter steeper effort. Pretty much what Weeksy says after that.

I've had a Pace RC529 for a couple of months. In some regards, it's the best bike I've ever ridden... until I get to a rock garden. It reminded me that I'm not a hardtail fan anymore.

Going to be splitting it up and selling soon as I've gone and bought an Intense Spider 275C frame to build up.

I was fiddling in the garage this week and realised I hadn't ridden my FS in 6 months at least. Not a conscious decision but I always seem to choose one of the HTs. I don't do much mega-technical stuff and HTs get me down fine if a little slower. I won't sell the FS, it's not worth very much but I can't see me riding it much except for Scottish trips. In fact it may become a source of parts for the other bikes!

I don’t get how hardtails suddenly need to have plus tyres.

They don't, but it can be astonishing how fast they go over rough ground (until you put a hole in the rear).

You need a Stanton Switchback.

In fact it may become a source of parts for the other bikes!

Very true. My full suss is dead useful for storing all my spare parts in an orderly and hard to lose fashion 😀

You need a Stanton Switchback.

Mmm... Switchback... That's it, I'm building mine up. **** it 😆

I don’t get how hardtails suddenly need to have plus tyres.

They don’t, but it can be astonishing how fast they go over rough ground (until you put a hole in the rear).

They do die rather easily. That’s why I got rid of the Stache. Just ate tyres that cost more than the GDP of a small nation. I never found them quicker either. My fastest times locally are in a Stif Morf. According to marketing I should be dead now 😂

Hmm. Some great points ... Keep 'em coming.

Just in response to a few ...

it’s possibly worth noting the a the Prophet is perhaps at the longer travel/”wallowey” end of things and that maybe a more efficient, shorter travel FS might suit you better.

Yes. This is how I experience it. Very different feel to a HT even with a 'trail' amount of travel (the 45650 had 140mm). And still not used to the rear 'squish', feels very flexy and I keep having to check tyre hasn't gone soft, pivots haven't worn etc.

My only MTB is a relatively short travel (140/130) but modern geo 27.5er which strikes a decent balance of being good to pedal and fun to descend on

Yes. That makes sense. The Santa Cruz 5010 felt a much more efficient and 'perky' ride and was certainly more modern in geometry. I feel perched on top of the Prophet, whereas the few bikes I have tried with more modern figures I have felt more 'in' the bike.

Or as another intermediate option there are ‘plus’ tyres, a shade more grip/traction/comfort from a bigger volume tyre

Yes. Good shout. One of the best bikes I've ridden was a mate's Sonder Transmitter (first generation) which was an absolute ripper. But, it was a bit shit in the mud, and I did destroy the rear tyre on an innocuous looking rock, so aware they can be vulnerable to that. Also, whilst it didn't feel unduly draggy on the trail, I do worry that having a plus HT (adding weight and rolling resistance, with the wider tyres & wheels) will to some extent offset what I'm looking for in a HT, ie that efficient, poppy feel when just riding along, not just tanking it on the descents ...

The thing is with a nice hardtail there is very little faffing. Set fork up and tyre pressures vaguely where they feel good.

Yes. This.

I haven't done the research on what I might get for my current bikes. Am surprised what people ask for on eBay for, eg Inbreds; no idea what the Prophet would fetch. As a hunch, I reckon it I were to sell both, and possibly added a little bit, my budget would be in the £600-£1000 region (depending how much I can find behind the sofa!). So, whether HT or FS, I'd be looking second hand.

So, moving things on a little (stealth wanted Ad!) ... HT/FS options, used, medium, in the 130/140 modern(ish) trail geometry range ... What would STW recommend? (And what have you got to sell?)

No!

Why?

A modern FS is far nicer to ride than any HT - what’s the point of getting the bollox shaken off you when you can do the same ride in comfort and potentially faster with less fatigue so you can be out longer.

I’d not go back to a HT - I genuinely can not see the point.

I now have two FS. One is heavy, slow as hell and hard work on the ups, but an absolute riot on the downs. The other is nice and fast on the climbs, even better on technical stuff, razor sharp on singletrack and only a bit less fun on the descents.

They vary a lot.

A modern FS is far nicer to ride than any HT – what’s the point of getting the bollox shaken off you when you can do the same ride in comfort and potentially faster with less fatigue so you can be out longer.

You can go fast and not get your bollocks shaken off on a hardtail. It’s just a different riding style and line choices. I’m in no way a good rider, but have yet to find anything in this country that a good hardtail can’t handle with relative ease.

I enjoy my hardtail, it's fast and fun, but i love my full suspension, it takes a bit of the pain away as i have a hip injury, and after a hardtail ride where i do jumps and so on it takes 2-3 days for the pain to go away, with the full sus it's only a day of stiffness/pain, only chance of me going down to just a hardtail would be if i had a hip replacement!

I have an HB160 and a non-LS BFe. The BFe is literally the easiest way of storing spares, and something to ride if the shock is away for servicing. Actually, not even that as I bought a spare shock.

The various Vitus sentier models from chain reaction look great trail hardtails for the money.

I consolidated all my bikes into one by accident a few years back; I bought a 29er hardtail and, with a couple of udderlets under foot realised I should probably slim down the bike collection to keep one bike going rather than continually buying parts and fixing three different bikes I hardly had time to ride in between working and parenting. Now they're a bit biggerer. In the end, I sold up my FS bike (a rather nice Orange 5) to a friend and kept my Hummingbird and the 29er, which was a bit of a joke bike - I thought I should try wagon wheels and On-One were selling off Mk2 scandal frames super cheap the day my first and last annual bonus for a few years landed. Fast forward a few months, and I'd sold the Hummingbird off, as I was only riding the Scandal. This is absolute sacrilege, by the way: Sam designs fantastic bikes, and so does Brant, but the build quality and finish of the Hummingbird was far over and above the Scandal by a long way. That made for a slightly uncomfortable drive up to a mutual friend's stag do at the time. Ahem. The thing was, those big wheels whooped over stuff.that small wheels couldn't and my (limited) riding time meant I could only justify one.
Of course, things change, and I ended up buying a FS frame with another windfall a few years later, and whaddya know, a 430mm back end really did make a difference to handling tight stuff. So then the Scandal got chopped in for a Stache. And now I ride the Stache a lot, and it's awesome, but not as rapid if I look at the stats as the T129. But I feel like I'm having to work harder with the Stache to get down lumpy stuff, and the moment I go back to the FS I'm suddenly really pummeling stuff because of the time I've spent being pinged around on the HT - although I'm running a 2.3" on the front and back of the Stache, and the extra volume makes a difference compared to the weedy 2.1 that fits the Whyte.
So I bought a Process 111 frame and moved the bits over from the Whyte and - well, you get the picture. All this has taken years, but I do have to say that, for the riding I do, it really helps to have FS and HT. Big old uplift day? FS. Midweek ride? Whichever is doing it for me at the moment. SDW in a day? HT.
If I could only have one? The Stache or a similar capable HT, any day. Maybe with a pair of 650bx2.8s for funsies to go with the 29er hoops. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford a nice HT and a second hand FS frame with some nice bits (Fox 34s, but ten year old Deore cranks? Check), and maybe one day I'll stretch to an olive green Evil Following costing twice the value of my car, but damn isn't this sport fun whatever you're on?

The thing is with a nice hardtail there is very little faffing. Set fork up and tyre pressures vaguely where they feel good.

Yes. This.

FS only has,er, one more item to set up, hardly a whole lot more faff, and if the attitude is to pressures 'vaguely' then it's even less faff.

This excuse, along with the 'exorbitant bearing costs' is one that's usually peddled by folks with a fleet of expensive bikes, and overplayed to the max.

One MTB here, it's FS, and its had pretty much zero maintenance in the 2 years since I bought it. And the bearings are free, when they do go.

I was going to write all that last night as above from Nobeer.

The difference in upkeep of an FS compared to a HT really is minimal. Both in time and expense.

If I was down to one bike it would be a HT. Upgraded FS and HT few years ago to blingy options as work was good and would always ride the HT. It’s down to personal choice and I’m as fast on the HT as the FS. Anything the FS can go down a HT can.

But in reverse, i'm as fast on the FS uphill as i am on the HT, i'm a damn sight quicker downhill on the FS though

I’m in no way a good rider, but have yet to find anything in this country that a good hardtail can’t handle with relative ease.

Of course pretty much any MTB 'can handle' anything, the question is how much fun is it? In the rocky parts of the UK, I seem to have much more fun doing technical stuff on an FS because I'm carrying more speed. However I also ride a fully rigid bike, on different rides, cos I'm lucky enough to have more than one MTB.

Ok. To move the conversation along a little ...

I think I can be talked into either a FS or HT.

What, of each, should I be looking for at a max of £1k (used)

Sounds like you have a load of quite old bikes, so get a more modern FS or HT and you'll notice a big difference.

If most of your local riding is tame, and you're on a £1k budget, I'd lean towards a HT.

A 29er with a 120 to 140mm fork probably.

As much as I like hardtails there are places with lots of large roots that are no fun on a hardtail. If you can't have a new fs and a new ht just get a new fs.

The obvious answer is: fatbike.

No longer fashionable but still a hoot and, in my experience, capable of all the riding you do.