[Closed] Giving up MTB for Gravel...?

I predict a post in a few months, asking "which MTB"...

FWIW I've 3 main bikes (HT, FS and Gravel), and they all get used - make more time.

Lol... There's every chance of that.

Just tricky with time - small kids, commitments. Plus, not really been feeling it when I've been out the last few ride. Basically have enjoyed the gravel rides a lot more.

Gravel bike + mountain bike covers pretty much all types of riding. Why limit yourself to one. I'd keep the MTB for days when you can get out.

I've got too many bikes, but they all fill a different role. If I downsized, there would always be at least 2 bikes; one to cover rough stuff, and one to cover more mellow/ long distance stuff.

Depending on where you ride and what you ride, gravel can make a lot of sense. I have a variety of trails near me and so a variety of bikes.

Partly it's because I've got my eye on a particular bike, which really I could (should) only afford if I sold both my current bikes. Or take advantage of 3 year interest free... 😂

Gravel routes round here (SW London) are pretty good - and can stretch out to the Surrey Hills/South Downs on nice big days out...

I'd rather cut my hands off than restrict myself to "gravel" but each to their own. Do what makes you happy but bikes are never an investment given the depreciation as soon as it first gets it's tyres dirty.*

*Lockdowns excepted

I ride my do-it-all curly bar bike on road and gravelly things. I have very different experiences and expectations when I go out on it.

I ride my MTB on local trails, trail centres and proper mountains. I have a totally different experience when out riding it, and enjoy that the rides are so different.

...I sold both my current bikes.

[IMG] [/IMG]

I did about 10 years ago before people even called it gravel riding. Mainly because where I live is more gravel than MTB and a faster, lighter bike makes more sense 90% of the time.

Most of the riding I do from home is Gravel and has been since lockdown. Even though I live on the edge of the peaks and have access to loads of MTB trails and I own a fairly nice road bike. I ride gravel as it's safer than road biking and MTBing and I have struggled after a series of bad injuries and a couple of serious road bike crashes.

The only time I ride my MTB is with the kids at either trail centres or on holiday as it's what they do and enjoy. I like the fact you can really press on with a gravel bike so get the workout but don't have the cars to deal with that you get on a roadride. I'm lucky I have a few routes that hold up in the winter around the peaks plus the canal and local bridleway network to ride when it's dry.

i've barely ridden my mtb since I got a gravel bike back in november.

but the trails have been manky and the motivation for sliding around low. I'll be back on the mtb once it dries up a bit.

Nope - but if I lived in a 'gravel.area' I could see me doing more of it.

Gravel routes round here (SW London) are pretty good – and can stretch out to the Surrey Hills/South Downs on nice big days out…

When I lived down in London village we used to go out on some pretty epic cross rides (gravel wasn't a thing back then!)  But then we'd also do some equally epic MTB rides to the north and south downs.  The bridleways were great fun on the CX bike.

I ended up ditching my road bike and now just have a gravel bike and a MTB.  Covers all the bases for me.  But I don't think I could have just one or the other.

Lol - Gotta keep N+x to D-1 (where D=divorce)...

I've got a MTB ride this weekend (weather permitting...) so that'll give me a better idea as well.

Hardly use my lovely old Cotic Soul, the gravel bike does all I need from the door, just seem to have cut right back in travelling to ride where I'd need an MTB

Just keep a HT if you can only have one. Why limit your riding with just a gravel bike. You can pretty much take the HT anywhere, the gravel bike is restricted to road and other tame stuff.

Gravel routes round here (SW London) are pretty good –

Yes, getting cx bikes pretty much killed my mtb’ing five or six years back, or more likely saved my off road riding. I was getting heartily sick of driving out to Surrey or swinley and then slogging back into town. The cx bike removes that gripe and we use them for the vast majority of our cycling now. Having said that I am now slightly getting back into the mtb. Got a hardtail about a year back, although not used it masses and plan to get the full sus, which hasn’t really been used much since a trip to Canada in 2018 back and running.

Mate of mine did this in the first lockdown and has not regretted it. He put loads more miles and rides in since he switched. He talks about maybe getting an MTB again in the future (n+1) but shows no signs atm.

As he had one, I got a GB too and it's been my most used bike since although that's maybe due to my main ridding pal not having anything else!

Just keep a HT if you can only have one. Why limit your riding with just a gravel bike. You can pretty much take the HT anywhere, the gravel bike is restricted to road and other tame stuff.

Sliding scale isn't it, the HT will be as bad on road as the GB is on rough off. GB is no more limited, just better at different things so it depends what your rides involve.

I ride gravel, road and MTB and in terms of time doing each over a year it's probably 50:30:20 in that order. So if I could only have one bike it would likely be the gravel bike as that's the one I use all year round. They're all fun, in slightly different ways.

I cut back on the MTBing when I stopped bouncing on a bad landing. Tried road, hated riding with cars so got a gravel bike. Revelation, but I'm lucky enough to live in a forested area of South Germany. Reduced my bikes but kept my stumpjumper.
I ride 90% gravel now, but would hate not having the option of the MTB.

Re: getting a HT - that would meme selling my FS (which is ‘only’ a 130/115 29er) and ending up with something really quite close to the gravel bike (especially considering that I’m possibly looking at a Diverge).

A pertinent point has popped up in a few posts, actually - I do more gravel riding with mates now (especially after introducing them to it…) and my main trips to the hills (mainly the Lakes) are likely curtailed for the next couple of years (life getting in the way for me and my friends…)

Looking at the split for riding last year it’s almost exactly 85% gravel bike and 15% MTB (and even some of that 15% was riding the same routes as the gravel bike)!

Are you not allowed to ride an MTB on gravel?

Meh, most of my riding is from the door on a gravel bike, so I suppose that makes me a "Gravelist" more than a "mountainbikerist" but so what, it's really just that the gravel bike is more convenient and suits my local terrain a bit better.

There's no way I'd be without an MTB because when you do want to do something a shade more gnarly than a gravel bike can accommodate an MTB is the obvious tool for the job. I wouldn't maintain a top spec full carbon #Enduro bike just for a podgy middle aged bloke to trundle about on a handful of times during the summer. But a mid-low spec, 120-130mm travel, 29/27.5er with some useful gears, decent tyres and working brakes will cover most MTBing 'bases' and need not be replaced for several years...

I'm turning that way. 2020 saw me travel very little to use the MTB's so I bought a used Specialized Sirrus which is ace for getting round the local tracks. Except it's heavy.
So I've just ordered an On One Free Ranger.
No intention of getting shot of the HT or FS though.

Grand - thanks for everyone’s input. Much appreciated.

Interesting point as well, I've got mates who are into MTBs and mates who are into road bikes and the gravel/CX/bridleslayer bikes are kind of the crossover point, roadies get a Gravel bike to mix things up a bit, try going off-road, maybe avoid nastier traffic routes during winter, MTBers seem to get them to commute, maybe do some "road riding" and keep the miles off their nice MTB. You can go for a gravel bike ride with either group and it's quite a different experience, my MTB mates clearly find themselves in turmoil when I turn up in lycra and they're in baggies; should they take the piss or not? We're going to play in the mud but the bikes have curly bars, who wore the wrong uniform?

Roady mates are quite funny, they think your a wizard because you know to drop more gears sit and spin where there's no traction and you can pick a line while they get cross rutted or slide off sideways grabbing fist fulls of brake in the mud, but then they normally have the stamina for a good long ride and won't stop as often for a chat and snacks...

The people you ride with and the type of riding is a bit more diverse IMO.

I'm actually going the other way round. I have a lovely gravel bike but miss the mtb and only have room for one bike so selling the gravel and getting another hardtail. I live in a great area for gravel biking but there are times I just miss the mtb.

Stanton Sherpa fits the bill for me, just need to decide between a carbon fork or maybe something like the Sid ultimate. I have a mint condition Orro Terra Ekar in XL if your interested 😁

Road is for fitness,
Gravel is for exploring/trekking,
MTB is for fun!

As someone above said - make a little time for some proper FUN.

Even if only once per month, take that time, it’ll pay it back in spades.

I say this as someone with two small kids, a very busy job, a wife with a similarly busy job and no family to support.

Trade with your partner for fun time, but make sure you use it!

Earn it, use it, live it!

Funnily enough, I decided today to finally sell my MTB (a Canyon Grand Canyon); I bought it in in August 2019, with the idea of driving to NWales (or Gisburn)once a month to ride in it's natural habitat. I'd previously had a Chisel Expert which I had for about 18 months and only rode about 5-6 times on proper MTB trails.

I promised myself I'd only buy another MTB if I regularly rode it on MTB trails; which I shortly broke that promise. I've really only used on the Leeds/Liverpool canal path, Cheshire Lines path....and when the first Lockdown started I gave it to my youngest brother to use. I got it back in May, and never managed to get out anywhere.

Currently I have no use for it, as a Gravel/CX bike is more than capable enough for were I ride. If circumstances change, and I move somewhere nearer to trails, then I may get another one.

Sliding scale isn’t it, the HT will be as bad on road as the GB is on rough off. GB is no more limited

What does 'bad on the road' mean? 5mph slower? You can ride a HT on road/gravel (whatever that is...) but you can't (yes ,sorry, it's true) ride a gravel bike on many MTB trails. GBs are inherently more limited, which is fine.

Anyway, each to their own. 2 x MTBs for me. 29r HT for trail centres and local exploring, FS for occasional UK gnar and long summer trips to the mountains.

Gravel routes round here (SW London) are pretty good – and can stretch out to the Surrey Hills/South Downs on nice big days out…

I'd find a Diverge really frustrating as soon as I got onto the SDW or Surry Hills - bikes like that are fine on easy open byways and fun for a while on a singletrack, but he fun wears off pretty fast if you're an MTBer at heart. Either that or there's damage. I like gravel bikes, always have done, but they're mostly mis-sold when pitched as off-road bikes. They're road bikes that do more imho.

Light, rigid 29ers with the right geometry and 'rangy' bars (wide flare drops, alt swept bars, flats with inboard bar ends etc) can be good road/lanes bikes and loads of fun off-road. What you're after is a bike that feels brisk enough on road to get to the tracks, then feels at home on the tracks even if a bit XC-lively on the real MTB trails. There's a few bikes like the Fargo or Gryphon that have been made for this sort of use and there's a few that are more MTB-like but are aimed at the drop-bar set up.
Jack of all / master of none, it depends. I prefer a bike that is wider-ranging yet really good at something rather than 'does it all' and is compromised everywhere, but that something can be that middle ground if that's the terrain you ride most.

What does ‘bad on the road’ mean? 5mph slower?

This is a fair point, but despite some very fast semi-slick tyres and stretched out bar ends to mimic the hoods of my gravel bike, I still can't bring myself to take the 29er out on rides with lots of tarmac or long flat stretches. I think maybe if you're already used to a road bike and 'proper' gravel bike, it will always just feel a bit slower or less efficient or something. Once off road there isn't much to distinguish the fast 29er from the gravel bike.

For me, I don't have any quality MTB immediately on the doorstep, and once you get used to road or gravel bikes having to pack the bike up in the car etc. to go for a ride just starts to seem silly, plus it deprives my wife of the car whilst I'm away riding which is double negative brownie points, I'm away having fun AND she's stranded at home with the 4 year old. So yeah. horses for courses but I get a lot more value out of gravel rides from the front door than I ever would out of an MTB.

12 years on the forum and I still can’t work out how to quote :-/

“plus it deprives my wife of the car whilst I’m away riding which is double negative brownie points, I’m away having fun AND she’s stranded at home with the 4 year old”

This is a big part of it (with a 4 and 7 year old with activities and never ending parties…)

Annoyingly, my back’s started hurting, so Sunday’s ride is now a doubt…

12 years on the forum and I still can’t work out how to quote

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blockquote

Like others on here I'm pretty much down to my MTB (SC Hightower) and a gravel bike (Diverge), both used for very different things - the diverge is just used for anything... riding into town to meet friends, longer road rides, bridleway exploring.

Mainly it's a road bike I can take off road if I need with bigger volume tyres. I'm not fussed about speed, I don't ride with a club. The country lanes around here aren't great and the bigger tyres are far more comfortable than 25's.

The gravel bike gets used from the front door, which is it's main advantage. To ride the MTB it always means at least an hours drive somewhere. Which is fine if time allows.

I also have an older rigid Spesh Carve ... which is great fun to ride over winter. And it sometimes gets used on the road, but I generally dislike using flat bars if I'm riding for any decent distance.

Interesting topic.
I found myself in the curious situation of moving to one of the MTB world mecas (Switzerland) and finding myself riding proper trails much less here than where I was before.

Here since November, most trails with any elevation tend to be either covered in snow or frozen for most of the winter so the motivation to drive or catch a train with the enduro bike to have a ride is not great.

Ended up buying a gravel bike for commuting in January, a Fuji Jari with loads of tyre clearance even with 29x2.0 and a relatively high stack. It's just amazing, I'm addicted to the thing. It makes every road or trail interesting and fun. I can just leave my doorstep and spend the day riding and exploring, connecting the dots between the forests here and covering lots of ground fast.

I'm sure a light XC MTB would be even faster in some of these situations, but you can't beat the comfort of drop bars for long hours, the cargo capacity or the reliability of not having suspension seals or pivots.

I replaced the stock tyres (700x40 WTB Raddlers) with a pair of 29x2.0 Schwalbe G-One Ultrabites, the 40t chainring with a 36t and the 11-42 cassette with a 11-46. The thing will do pretty much any trail, at it's pace

I've got a FS MTB and have paired it with a gravel bike, which was great for local tame stuff, and also the 45 min commute which was mostly on road.

Changed the gravel bike for a hardtail last year and will be building a set of "gravel" wheels for summer local rides. The gravel bike was better/more comfortable on the road but the hardtail, even being much heavier should be nearly as good on the fire roads and tame stuff with the right tyres. And it can do proper MTB stuff also.

What about an adventure type MTB? Like the ones used for bike packing. It'll be nearly as fast as a gravel bike on tame stuff but will be able to do much more on trails.

Would never give up MTB for gravel. Road yes I have given up for gravel though.

But here in Germany there's a million km of forest tracks rideable pretty much from the door, so a gravel bike makes the most sense for most local riding. But the hardtail is still the one I use the most, by a factor of roughly 2x.

12 years on the forum and I still can’t work out how to quote

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Every day's a school day! Cheers!

Thanks for the input everyone - your comments are all really interesting.

I went to dark side (road) when the kids were wee. It was great for all the reasons you said (ride from home etc) but I always kept a mountain bike, nothing fancy, just a hardtail. Glad I did as it did get used when I managed to get the time.

Deep down I will always be a mountain biker, just sometimes I'm on other types of bikes.

Just rider what you have when you have the time, no need to feel guilty. All bikes are great. 👍

Best motivator for when I lost my mountain bike mojo in 2016 was to build up a rigid singlespeed. It does not allow you to just 'go through the motions' when out riding.

Road is for fitness,
Gravel is for exploring/trekking,
MTB is for fun!

Exactly right. For the past couple of years the ratio for me's been zero road, maybe 10% gravel/Xbike, 90% local mtb on mainly f/s but I need to get out for some longer road rides for things coming up this year. Living on the edge of the dales with some good local mtb, it's still good to get out up the road for a longer ride on dales xc mtb routes, which go perfectly well on a crossbike, you're just a bit slower on the downs, at least I am. And it's less fun. And it makes my bad shoulder hurt. Ah bollocks, at least it's not zwift/turbo.

pretty much given up, i think i rode an MTB 3 times last year, but then I am kinda invested in gravel bikes via the website. I do want to ride more mtb this year though. I have just put a surly corner bar on the hardtail though 🙂

I think what you are saying is “I’ll drop down to just a gravel bike while the kids really need me and are taking up time and energy “.

Being able to ride from home makes total sense in the circumstances

At some point in the future the kids will be older and things will change.

Currently on holiday with a FS mtb and gravel bike. The gravel bike was brought along so that when my 25 year old son stayed for a few days we could ride together

At some point in the future the kids will be older and things will change.

^^Very much this^^

6 years ago when I boarded the gravel hype train I did vow to maintain an MTB and I have done and that one MTB has seen a bit of use throughout the last half decade. Now the kids are both in double digits and have MTBs of their own my opportunities to use my MTB are increasing slowly.

My gravel bike is still the most frequently used bike, and the most versatile (riding from the door). And if I was in the position of only being able to own/store one bike at a time it would probably have been some flavour of Gravel bike based on the last few years. But I'm sure now the kids are older, and you never truly fall out of love with MTBing, if I were currently the owner of a single gravel bike I'd be mulling over chopping it in for MTB...

Would never give up MTB for gravel. Road yes I have given up for gravel though.

As above really . I live pretty close to the Tweed valley so have a Trek Slash . Also my home trails are tame and I like bike packing so have a Trek checkpoint. I always had 3 bikes which alternated between full sus, hardtail and road . or full sus ,cx and road (you get the picture). I now feel as getting older i'd rather have a slower road bike than can also do my local mtb routes hence the gravel bike.
Do feel sometimes i'd like a long travel hardtail that could take bags for cairngorms bike packing but It's overkill. My next bike will be a Trek rail but will have to keep the slash for when the motor goes. 🙂

I’ve tried gravel bikes a few times and always gone back to some form of MTB. At the end of the day it’s all marketing bollocks and you can ride any bike anywhere. Just need to decide where your priorities lie.

I just prefer the MTB riding position and find the geometry on gravel and road bikes more limiting for an all rounder. Currently on a Stooge Dirtbomb. Anything remotely off the beaten track is way comfier and loads more fun than it was on an NS RAG+ (destroyed derailleur and bent wheel) or the Genesis Fugio (just meh!). The whole speed on the road thing always comes up on here and honestly, even with 3” tyres, it isn’t that much slower and is a much more relaxed and fun place to be. The only place it really falls down is chunky, rocky proper off road where I miss having a suspension fork

At the end of the day it’s all marketing bollocks and you can ride any bike anywhere

Well yeah, but it's not bollocks, you wouldn't ride your 160mm gnarpoon round 120km of fast gravel tracks would you? Horses for courses.

And on that note, I was very glad I still have a nice fast 29er lurking at the back of the garage, I needed soft and spikey treads today for the cut up, partially frozen, partially slush snow. Would not have been half as much fun on the gravel bike 😎

Personally speaking I think a gravel bike and a FS trail MTB is about the best two bike combo you can have which will cover 90% of UK riding bases so long as you aren't into anything weird like trials.
Even better with a couple of different sets of wheels for each (gravel/road and xc/enduro).

I'm lucky enough to have lots of local trails with lots of variety and also lucky enough to have a few bikes.

In terms of time spent, over the last year I'd say it was about

5% gravel bike with road tyres
27.5% Gravel
12.5% Singlespeed hardtail
25% Trail/enduro mtb
30% enduro Ebike

Also worthy to mention is that "gravel bike" means lots of different things. It goes from 35 semi slick tyres with almost road like gearing to 29x2.0 or bigger tires with Mtb gearing. The first will nearly as fast as a road bike, the second nearly as capable as a rigid MTB.
No wonder people report so many different experiences and use cases under the "gravel bike" umbrella

Another option which works for me is a rigid mountain bike. Unless I’m on multi day trip I tend to ride mainly locally now as I don’t want to drive to ride and it’s a good for ‘natural trails’ as well as bit of road on one hand and trail centres on the other.

I got a gravel bike three years ago, and for two and a half years rode little else. A few months back I bought a Whippet with rigid forks, and I've been having good fun with it - I'd kind of forgotten that two inch tyres and wide handlebars make such a difference.

I'm planning to make the gravel a little less gravel-y this year, mostly by switching to road-friendly tyres, perhaps Vittoria Revolutions as I've had those before and liked them. I'm happy with the flared bars (Ritchey Beacons), so I'm going to end up with a gravelly road bike and a MTB that's good on the road 🙂

Well yeah, but it’s not bollocks, you wouldn’t ride your 160mm gnarpoon round 120km of fast gravel tracks would you? Horses for courses.

But you could though and as I also said, it depends on where your priorities lie. For me it’s staying away from roads as much as possible. They’re a necessary evil to get to fun. I’ve had a few gravel bikes and none of them were as capable or as fast as a 29er, even on mild fire road or canal towpath. Also it is pretty much bollocks, most marketing is.

Also it is pretty much bollocks, most marketing is.

I’m old enough to remember slightly thinking that about ‘all terrain bikes’, or ‘ATBs’ as they were branded at the time. So I bought one anyway 🥳. And then I heard about these even more expensive ATBs coming on the market, except now they were named ‘mountain bikes’, or ‘MTBs’. And by then Imwas entirely convinced of mucho marketing bolx. So I bought one anyway 🥳 (and then exchanged it for another, and another, 19 times...) And then I heard about these ‘29er’ things coming on the market…

Mostlyly road riding where I am in a mountainous region. My HT with 160mm fork, limited tooth chainring and 37mm (inner) rims can't keep up with the group's of riders I can get out with. And I'm getting on so need something for fitness from my door.

So, I've just bought my first road bike since I was 15yo. Sub 10kg CF. European brand frame with Taiwanese bits on it. £219. No reason to sell one bike to buy another. Having to buy some more clipless shoes as the previous ones numb my toes.

It's all still riding, and we learned a few things about fitness levels during covid.

I’ve had a few gravel bikes and none of them were as capable or as fast as a 29er, even on mild fire road or canal towpath.

Now that is bollocks. On a mild fire road a gravel bike will always be faster than a 29er just from aerodynamics alone. You are talking about fast, so that is presumably in the 18mph+ range and a gravel, or cross, bike is just faster.

As for this

Road is for fitness,
Gravel is for exploring/trekking,
MTB is for fun!

I have fun riding a CX bike everywhere (road, gravel, single track) and I ride for fitness and never explore/trek so can't really make such blanket comments.

What does ‘bad on the road’ mean? 5mph slower? You can ride a HT on road/gravel (whatever that is…) but you can’t (yes ,sorry, it’s true) ride a gravel bike on many MTB trails. GBs are inherently more limited, which is fine.

Bad on the road means not as good as a gravel bike, just as a gravel bike won't be as good as a hard tail off road and the hard tail will not be as good as the 170mm full suss downhill. Pretty simple really.

Now that is bollocks. On a mild fire road a gravel bike will always be faster than a 29er just from aerodynamics alone. You are talking about fast, so that is presumably in the 18mph+ range and a gravel, or cross, bike is just faster.

Nope, talking from experience. NS RAG+ and Genesis Fugio both slower than a Stif Morf and 27.5 Cotic Soul. I know this because I have the rides saved on my phone. Probably me just feeling comfier on the latter style of bike so prepared to go faster, up to around mid to high 20’s mph.

The gravel bikes just felt unstable. The MTB’s planted. All on the fire road that parallels part of the old DH course in Macc Forest.

The gravel bikes just felt unstable. The MTB’s planted. All on the fire road that parallels part of the old DH course in Macc Forest.

Macc forest used to be my old stomping ground and although it's been many many years since I've been down it, I used to descend that fire road regularly (late 1990s!!!).
I did go up it last year, though.

I'm not surprised an mtb is faster and a gravel bike more nervous down there. It's very very fast with some tight ish bends.
So quite 'technical' in the way roadies describe twisty turny descents on narrow roads.
On a gravel bike going full pelt you'd be way beyond the handling/braking envelope on the bends IMO.

A speed comparison in the gravel bike's favour would be on a more gradual fire road with no tight bends.

@RichBowman

TBH I don't blame you. Riding around locally isn't super MTB focused and I have found myself moving towards rigid and gravel projects in recent years. Ofcourse the surrey hills are still great and when you can get out there it's worth it 100x. So no I wouldn't give up the MTB as you never know and you wouldn't want to be without one if something came up.

Having said that if you are looking to get rid of stuff I can always come swoop round and pick it up 😉

Also worthy to mention is that “gravel bike” means lots of different things. It goes from 35 semi slick tyres with almost road like gearing to 29×2.0 or bigger tires with Mtb gearing. The first will nearly as fast as a road bike, the second nearly as capable as a rigid MTB.
No wonder people report so many different experiences and use cases under the “gravel bike” umbrella

This! It's such a varied drop bar category. You've got:
1) 30-40mm tyres - light off road to slightly gnarly
2) 40-50mm tyres - more gnarly and can cope wit a lot of terrain
3) 50-60mm tyres - "monster cross" for almost everything with extra comfort/grip/stability

I know some people will say they're happy doing everything on 38s, and with skills and good legs (and good bones/joints) you can (except perhaps rock gardens), but some like bigger tyres for the reasons in #3

Gravel bike + mountain bike covers pretty much all types of riding

I used to think that. But came to believe instead that Audax/touring bike + MTB cover bases better unless you really do typically ride much more gravel than tarmac.

I tend to prefer my MTB on all types of off-road and unsurfaced road. And I prefer my touring bike on all types of surfaced road than I did the gravel bike.

(Edit) I know so-called ‘gravel’ is a wide and varied descriptor of bikes from more or less roadie to cyclocross thru ruffty touring type bikes and then onto some with clearance for monstercross.

So my touring/audax bike might also be matched (or even beaten) by a very nice (similarly handbuilt steel) gravel frame which would probably fit a wider choice of wheels + tyres. But I do really like the wide difference between the audax/touring bike and the MTB, yet still all bases covered.

Whether a gravel bike is faster than a hard tail 29er is completely dependant on the terrain your taking it on

Down a disused railway or hard pack forest track its likely to be quicker. On super technical terrain it’s going to be slower.

I rode my after work MTB route which is a mixture of technical terrain, lanes and fire road actually some it in Macc forest on my gravel bike not long ago. Time wise it was about the same as it would take on my 29e but I was absolutely battered by the end of it. Depending on your preference that maybe part of the appeal of gravel riding. I enjoy taking a spoon to a knife fight but if it was your only bike it could get wearing.

Use an old Cannondale 29er SL 2015 to ride during the winter and a Whyte Friston Gravel bike when the tracks are drier. Broke a couple of ribs at Kildale and realised I don’t bounce as well as I used to. It was a gradual progression really. I ride from the door most days so the gravel bike makes sense. It allows me to get to the tracks faster and cover more ground.

Whether a gravel bike is faster than a hard tail 29er is completely dependant on the terrain your taking it on

Obviously. The use case was "mild fire road or canal towpath". The terrain where I will be riding at 18mph+ and the aerodynamics of the gravel bike will be the main advantage.
If your gravel bike is feeling "unstable" you are not riding on terrain where the gravel bike will be faster. I regularly ride on single track where an MTB is faster than my 33c tyred cross bike which is less stable, but that was not what we were talking about.

Hate to break it to you but I’m also faster on my local towpaths on a HT too. On the gravel bikes I’d get slowed down by the uneven crappy surface, roots, dips etc and that just saps energy. Whereas I’d barely notice them on the HT. Actually prefer riding that type of surface on the Stooge to anything else. A bit slower but about a million times more comfortable and fun.

Each to their own though. Just giving my opinions for the OP. My personal experience is that a HT or rigid beats a gravel bike on the majority of off road surfaces. Perhaps it’s not the same for you. Monster cross may be different. How about a drop bar bike that has clearance for MTB tyres and run two sets of wheels?

My personal experience is that a HT or rigid beats a gravel bike on the majority of off road surfaces.

I was all set to disagree with you, but then thought back to a few rides I've done over the last couple of years and am beginning to wonder! Perhaps a world first of someone changing their mind on the internet 😁

My experiences are skewed a bit as I'll take my gravelised Superfly out on longer gravel rides that I think might merit disc brakes and/or suspension, but for those rides I will then try and omit as much tarmac as possible. Overall though of the longer gravel rides I've done, the fastest average speeds have been on my 29er with funky bars and either gravel tyres or very fast semi-slicks 29er tyres.

I think the problem for me is perception of speed then, as the Superfly doesn't feel as fast and I still haven't got the position dialed for longer pedalling efforts (e.g. when you might want to tuck in and time trial along, which I usually quite enjoy). Maybe I should put the pop-loc back on the forks and upgrade the wheels, see how it feels. Or just buy a Salsa Cutthroat 😎

OP - have you got a nice light 29er you can stick some slicks on?

My personal experience is that a HT or rigid beats a gravel bike on the majority of off road surfaces.

What you want is a bike that's bars flatten and tyres widen once you've finished the 12 mile road section to get to where you want to explore.

Am possibly the odd one out because for me

Road/gravel/MTB are all for fitness and exploring and touring and trekking and transport and therapy and fettling and most of all fun*

Never been into cycling as a competitive sport but have lived and breathed cycling and bikes for all of the above purposes. Sometimes I’ve only had one bike and so the choice was to ride that. And (maybe not coincidentally) I see to remember enjoying those times more than when juggling and maintaining (say) seven different bikes. Limitations can bring simplicity and focus.

Spork to a bunfight.

Currently have a road tourer and 29er and so am spoiled for choice as either ride just fine from the door and I’d be hard pressed to complain. My favourite ‘only bike’ probably was a chromo monster-cross, (and before that was a chromo ATB back in the day)

*Unless you happen to ride a Pashley PDQ. The one bike purchase/experiment that I immediately upon riding then wanted to melt for scrap. OP, if you ever get the unlikely chance to ride one of those then doing so will possibly confer upon you a very good chance of being happy forever with riding whatever isn’t a PDQ. 🙂

Ride to live ride, the rest is gravy!

My personal experience is that a HT or rigid beats a gravel bike on the majority of off road surfaces. Perhaps it’s not the same for you.

Again, the use case was not the majority of off road surfaces, it was “mild fire road or canal towpath” where I am riding at 18+ mph and it is simply just faster.
Going down bumpy single track the gravel bike will be slower.

I ride 30% road, 65% gravel and 5% singletrack. To me that is a gravel bike (or CX bike because they are better), to you it may be an MTB

In the Gravel Vs 29er weigh-up bigger tyres certainly beats aero at some point and I'd say the tipping point is as much about the rider and the duration as any bike science stuff. Aero's only influential if you can hold that position and offset the low rolling efficiency of small tyres off-road.
ie yes I can hoon it all-out along a byway in the drops on a gravel bike for a short while but I'll be beat up soon enough and I'll not be carrying speed as easily as the 29er will allow. It's not sustainable if you're interested in riding more than an hour or two. For a longer ride or riding day after day where fatigue and ergonomic efficiency comes into it the 29er rules off-road.

I suppose then we're into drops on a 29er as a compromise but that's really into specialist bikes and personal preferences.

“mild fire road or canal towpath” where I am riding at 18+ mph and it is simply just faster.

For not very long at that pace, is my point. It's an outlier example like a CX race vs the Tour Divide at the other end. It maybe faster for you during your relatively short rides but it's not an example of terrain, but time on that terrain.

For me my local riding is more entertaining on my gravel bike (I live in Lincoln, it's pretty flat but there's a pretty decent network of bridleways and paths accessible 25m from the end of my driveway)

I have 3 and 5 year old kids so most of my riding is lunchtime spins from home with the occasional weekend pass (normally when the wife has something lined up for her and the kids to do with the in-laws)

I couldn't give up MTBing though, I just enjoy it too much when I do get the chance to get out. I've honed in on a pretty good two bike garage for me, my gravel bike with a second set of wheels fitted with 32mm road tyres and my 150/140 29er trail bike. The MTB does double duty as school transport occasionally.

If I could absolutely only have one bike, it would have drop bars and big gearing to suit the local riding (and I'd make do with hiring DH bikes for uplift days!)

In the Gravel Vs 29er weigh-up bigger tyres certainly beats aero at some point and I’d say the tipping point is as much about the rider and the duration as any bike science stuff.

jameso has it.

I have a rigid 29er and gravel bike with 40mm - I like that area in the middle so I have an off-roady road bike and a roady off-road bike.

My commute to work is about 20 minutes, nearly all along a canal path of variable quality. A little is concreted, most is sort of muddy gravel, some is roots and wet mud (flooded at the moment - that's fun!). I generally do it about 2 minutes quicker on the gravel bike, but that's because it's a short enough ride to go for it. If it was a 40 minute ride I reckon the 29er would be faster.

What you want is a bike that’s bars flatten ... once you’ve finished the 12 mile road section to get to where you want to explore.

Oh yes! This must be possible! Somebody make it and take my money!

Wasn't there some rule of thumb about the tipping point at which aero really mattered? Am sure it was either 17km/h or 17mph.

My fastest sort-of gravel ride was actually on my 29er but had a healthy proportion of tarmac in between hilly gravel sections, but I guess if I'm tucked down on bar ends on the 29er then perhaps I'm not actually much less aero? By a factor of bigger gap at fork crown and 30mm wider Q-Factor?

Funnily enough one of my few remaining KOMs is a relatively good gravel section near Edinburgh on my 29er, but I only claimed it due to a comedy tailwind. I don't think it would have been safe hauling along through all those dried out puddles on the gravel bike 😂

My stats prove to me that the total ride time on my gravel bike is about 25% faster than the exact same ride on a HT.
But then that's on 35mm gravel tyres vs 2.35in knobbly tyres on forest tracks that are about as technical as a towpath.
Maybe those times might be a bit closer if the gravel bike was one of these more recent "MTBs with drop bars" with 2.1in chunkier 650b tyres.

Interesting title. My gravel bike is more capable off-road than any of the mtbs I owned BITD, so I don't really see it as giving up mtb, just using a different bike for the same purpose. With the huge advantage of being much better on-road, opening up more rides from the door.