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After 30 odd years of watching stage racing I give up. His doctor is magnificent.
Eh? So after the Armstrong years, the Landis period, the Contador issue, the Millar banning, whole teams being implicated etc etc., NOW is the time you give up? A time when the winner of a stage hasn't even been found guilty of anything? Bizarre.
If he was dirty, surely the last thing Froome would want to do now is put in a performance that will have people asking questions. I'm not saying there isn't anything in the current accusations, but it just seems weird that a rider who is currently being investigated would dose himself up and then put on a show like that. It doesn't make sense.
Great effort by Froome. I only managed to watch the last 2km on a live stream, but he blew the race apart.
Merckx was a drug user also, but in his era there wasn’t a concerted effort to eliminate it.
And yet it was worth watching then and not now? I'm not sure what your point is.
Brailsford will come sliming out of the shadows to belch forth all manner of revolting rhetoric. However, its not over yet. I really hope someone takes it from him on tomorrows stage, however i doubt it.
Amazing stuff and yet somehow I still think he don't dope. I like the way he comes across in interviews.
PED`s help descending?
Don't care what anyone says, Salbutamol doesn't give you the ability to do what he did today. He's either juiced up to the eyeballs, or he's the real deal. I think he deserves to win now.
Dumoulin I have admiration for. Always fighting. But he's boring...
Nice touch for Pinot to squeak in and take the last time bonus. Some choice language from Dumoulin the other day. He had to mark Yates and Froome. Today he didn't watch his man closely enough. Should have stopped worrying about the others.
Quite timely today 🙂
What butcher said above.
He's either doped up beyond belief or he's just a hell of a rider.
Either way he's just rode to one of the most spectacular stage wins ever in a GT!
Up there with the greatest ride of all time..
Be interested to see what he has left tomorrow . He must be pretty ruined after that effort, and didn't shine following his last stage victory the day after
To be fair to Froome his best is way better than Yates, Big Tom and Pinot
To be fair to Froome his best is way better than Yates, Big Tom and Pinot
Quite. When was Pozzovivo last touted as a genuine GC contender? A great ride against not quite top rank opposition.
As has already been noted, a few extra puffs of an inhaler does not let you put in that kind of performance. I think the adverse test is kinda irrelevant. He's either super human, or on something far far stronger
Or he's just ridden himself into form when the others spent the first couple of weeks taking lumps out of each other. It was a great solo effort but I suspect made to look slightly better with other flagging at the end of an epic tour. I think he'll have plenty in the legs for tomorrow.
I’m all for a break and this particular effort will indeed go down in history as a supreme effort, astonishingly well timed and executed...
Normally I’d be ecstatic over Froomidge’s win, certainly in the manner he made it stick. It’s unusual for him to go off on one, so I’m left wondering why and what was the motivation. Chasing back time seems to obvious one, but where’s the motivation come from? I ask myself to what end and what’s the reason behind this show of exceptional riding? Why now? And what happened to the moving roadblock Sky employ? Has the machine finally broken? Are we seeing the remnants of what once was such a tight knit squad fall and crack and dissolve into a team that has nothing too loose? A shrug of shoulders and “do what you like, we’re not here much longer”??
Theres poetry to hoofing off the front when you’ve nothing to prove, we’ve seen many breaks and outstanding riders commit to the drag. It’s an art form and stage drama only a few have had the opportunity to realise.
It’s the manner and backdrop and backstory which taints this particular win. Is this his last big effort before being banned? Is this epic ride the last we’ll see from him? We’ll only know once the investigation finally gets underway and the lawyers get involved. For me, I’m more interested in Yates and a squad that’s ridden out of thier bibs to keep him and the history of the Pink Jersey real and untainted.
...
Awesome ride - Froome take it to the others and they came up short. It would be bad for the race if Dumoulin had won by sucking wheels. Reading up on the Salbutomol case there's enough evidence from reputable sources to suggest the UCI would have serious trouble making it stick - if Sky (as sponsors) had a whiff of suspicion about him he'd have been suspended a long time ago
For me, I’m more interested in Yates and a squad that’s ridden out of thier bibs to keep him and the history of the Pink Jersey real and untainted.
Talking of back stories, do you know who Matt White is? Or doesn't that bother you despite your zeal for clean cycling? You couldn't make it up. Are you really that daft?
Don'r get me wrong, I'm a big admirer of Yates, but if you're going to go the whiter than white route, judge everyone by the same standards. Yates, fwiw, was actually suspended, for no fault of his own, but I can imagine the vitriol if he'd been a Sky rider.
And why do you keep referring to Froome as 'Froomidge'?
Talking of back stories, do you know who Matt White is? Or doesn’t that bother you despite your zeal for clean cycling? You couldn’t make it up. Are you really that daft?
Fully aware of who Matt White is yes, are you? Are you really that daft?
I do invoke a clean cycling policy, so do plenty of others. You must be daft if you think I think otherwise.
I maintain my position, that position is whilst an investigation for adverse analytical findings is underway the rider in question should not ride any event until the investigation is completed. You must be daft to think otherwise.
So you're fine with a self-confessed doper running the team you describe as 'real and untainted'? I'm not saying there owt untoward going on there, but come on, be consistent.
As far as the AAF goes, you can argue the rules are badly thought out, but they're the rules.
I am consistent, read my posts on here. You must be daft to think otherwise.
If you don’t like Matt White, that’s your problem not mine. Be consistent at least.
If you don't like froome racing, take it up with the UCI. I thought it was the best days racing I've seen in years, and if you have that much of a problem with any of the participants, you could always not watch.
I don't dislike Matt White, I get that he comes from an era of cycling when doping was rife and he was part of that, what I find hard to understand is how you can praise a team he runs as being 'real and untainted'. It seems slightly naive.
If there's an issue with the rules, that's down the the UCI, not Sky.
I’d have thought the motivation to ride like he did was obvious... he was a good chunk of time behind and frankly 2nd, 3rd or 4th does absolutely nothing for his palmares so why not go all in? Win or bust.
It was clear on the early ramps of the Fenestre that Yates was cooked and Dumoulin got distanced slightly when Sky pushed on so he just went for it and it stuck.
It is a little uncomfortable knowing that he’s got the AAF hanging over him but there’s not much anyone can really do about that.
While not being a fan of froome.. i have to say that i am impressed with the improvement to his descending. It wasnt that long ago that he was crying like a baby about others descending faster than him and calling it too dangerous.
just watched the highlights program.
I don't know what to say. It didn't look possible, but in the end it was 'only' 3 minutes against riders who clearly aren't as good as Froome, who haven't set up to peak this week in the same way, and who (in the case of Yates) have found the race is half a week too long.
And it still isn't done, he has to defend it now.
As big an effort as Froome gave today – Dumoulin probably gave just as much effort chasing; he got very little help off the group he was with.
This, the rest of the Sky team having a rest on the way up, they'll be there for Froome tomorrow. All the arguments above are ridiculous, just people wanting to pick on Froome because a) they don't like him b) he's annoyingly very good c) not the world best media personality d) looks like a Crane on a bicycle.
Nothing has been proven he's a doper, and lets remember in 5 hours and 12 minutes TD's dropped 4 minutes to Froome, so mathematically he's only ridden 1.5% slower, a tiny margin. Not exactly blasting away on a High is it...
Both of them as pale as ghosts on the finish.
PED`s help descending?
Quite. The biggest gains were from descending, which is a mix of testicular fortitude and handling skills that cannot come out of a syringe.
THIS IS A FUN BIKE RACE TO WATCH YOU GUYS
PED`s help descending?
thc does 😉
great ride from Froome. Think Dumoulin will be suffering more than Froome tomorrow to be honest. Totally gutted for Yates though
Abandon d'Aru.
As a pure sporting spectacle I thought this race was incredible before the rest day. Today has blown it out of the water as stand out one of the best sporting competitions I can recall in my lifetime. How many people saw that coming? Gutted for Yates but bloody hell what a race this is turning out to be. Can anyone recall a better grand tour?
While not being a fan of froome.. i have to say that i am impressed with the improvement to his descending. It wasnt that long ago that he was crying like a baby about others descending faster than him and calling it too dangerous.
Are you sure you're not confusing him with one of the Schlecks?
Chapeau to both Froome and Dumoulin.
So what actually happened to Yates today? Is he just literally burned out?
No interview with him in the highlights. Still a truly valiant effort from him and he must be devastated.
Fantastic!
Go Froome!
That was one of the greatest sporting moments I have ever enjoyed live.
I too was going to ask what happened to Yates as I was in a bar in Germany watching it. It was just mind blowing to see that performance.
Wow. Just wow
He’s either super human, or on something far far stronger
Froomes time up Finestre was slower than in any previous race.
i just watched a video of Landis storming the tour in 06 on the juice, he looks nothing like a cyclist let alone a climber yet he took minutes out of the rest of the peloton. What we saw today was a calculated risk by a supreme athlete that paid off not somebody with a doping agenda and fridge full of blood/epo/HGH
Re Froome - "Or he’s just ridden himself into form when the others spent the first couple of weeks taking lumps out of each other."
That's my thinks, interesting to see how long he keeps form for the Tour. So sorry for Yates, sport is cruel - but you know his time will come, a fantastic Giro.
Tough watch. Gutted for him, the face is smiling but the eyes look blank.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/GTwi97SGjs4?rel=0
I hope he is cheered all the way to Rome, it's been brilliant.
My 2p is that I agree wholly with this:
“A great ride against not quite top rank opposition.” Nobody in the top 10 have ever been close to him in a Grand Tour.
He’s got a lot of experience riding dirt roads in Africa, which perhaps explains why he felt ok to Take chunk of time on the descent.
TDM et al pretty much matched his pace up the last climb, but the damage had been done already.
Everyone else seems to have been on form at the beginning of the Giro whereas Froome has peaked in the final week. Do people forget how his form used to drop off in the final week of a grand tour? He’s learnt that lesson and also shown that nobody can be at their peak for the whole 3 weeks.
He’d be the dumbest athlete on the planet to risk anything with his salbutamol job hanging over him... not inconceivable but unlikely.
Errmmm - Froome is a proven doper. that salbutomol result plus lots of other suspicious events. strict liability for doping in sport. It does not matter how it got there or why the adverse test result.
Froome is a proven doper.
No he isn't. Proven would be if WADA had issued a judgement against him for doping and stated the punishment (in conjunction with the UCI).
None of that has happened. He's got one AAF which is far from being any sort of positive test or indication of doping. That's why it's not called a positive test or "failing a test". It's called an Adverse Analytical Finding and further tests are then done to determine how that arose. It could be faulty chemistry or a contaminated sample or instrument. It could be any number of things. It could be a banned substance taken inadvertently (like Alain Baxter, the Scottish skier in the 2002 Winter Olympics) or it could be a banned substance taken with the clear intent to gain an illegal advantage.
They're supposed to be confidential while all the checks and tests are done and the experts weigh up the evidence. The athlete is perfectly eligible to compete while all that is done and that's the rules across sport.
You'd be pretty pissed off (in fact you'd be screaming for your rights) if you're were arrested and charged for something on the basis of circumstantial evidence and the opinions of a bunch of people on the internet.
Froome is a proven doper.
Well clearly he isnt.
editted = pointless arguement
editted = pointless argument
Have you been bodysnatched TJ? 😁
Anyway, can we now open a sweepstake on when Froome will be DQ’d from all three grand tours? 😛
He’s got a lot of experience riding dirt roads in Africa, which perhaps explains why he felt ok to Take chunk of time on the descent.
The descent is tarmac. It's only unpaved one way. According to Dumoulin, it was him waiting for Pinot/Reichenbach that meant they were slower - something like "Reichenbach descends like an old lady".
Did anybody else hear Froome shouting at the camera bike, “Never mind those apples, Lance, what about these?” 😁
Re the “form” business - its a classic sign of reverse periodisation, which is how Froome has trained for the last 2 years. The athlete won’t be doing race like efforts leading up to the race, so enters the race apparently undercooked, building pace and strength as the body “remembers” and starts to utilise the trained systems again. Reverse periodisation is basically “stronger for longer”. If you use this Giro as analytics, you can see that in Froome. Its also likely that all the other teams know this, so Yates er al deliberately pulled out time on Froome in week 1 attempting to be ahead of his curve and taking advantage of his accident.
Before the Giro, Froome himself said his power numbers where up in training and that he’d have to “wait” to see how that manifested itself - there’s the first clue. The initial crash was obviously a set back, with with improved sleep and energy away from the healing systems together with the above effect he’d probably feel pretty turbo charged right now compared to week 1.
There really is no point in arguing is there, everyone has their own opinion and facts aren’t going to change that are they?
Well done Froome-dog, a truly epic ride yesterday. Carlton Cliché et al must feel proper stupid. Only two days ago in commentary they were saying the race was over and riders would be defending their places. Ha ha ha.
I've no idea what any of them are on. If they stick to the letter of the law that will do me. But this sort of up and down racing where a rider puts a big effort in then suffers a few days later is what I'd expect in a cleaner peloton. What was spooky was when Lance could win the prologue, drop everyone in the mountains and still win the final time trial. Froome losing time in the first week, being just behind the pure testers in the time trial then being a couple of percent faster in a big mountain stage in the final week is at least believable.
I’ve never said Froomidge is a doper, never. What I said was whilst there is an investigation underway the rider shouldn’t be allowed to enter ANY event until a decision/conclusion has been reached. If the conclusion is no infringement has been incurred then the rider is free to enter any event thereafter, if the decision is the opposing view then there is already a mechanism in place for riders bans.
I think that about ANY rider, in ANY event under the UCI sanctioned events.
What I DO NOT want to see ever again is the Lance/Contador scenario where riders continue to enter events, place well or win, then have those placements redacted after the event causing a Farce only beaten by lying politicians.
If a rider enters an event and an adverse analytical finding surfaces, they are rightly booted off the event. That is correct, that should stay the same.
Quite why I’m having to clarify a simple ethical position is daft, it means some people can’t grasp the methodology that even the president of the UCI is calling for.... plus many more sanctioning bodies in all aspects of professional sport, and plenty of supporters of sport.
guilty till proven innocent then. Meanwhile, an innocent athlete loses the chance to participate while at his peak, because (for example) a lab ****ed up the test method.
Yes, the risk is that a doped athlete rides, wins and then is stripped of the result, and in the past history I can see why some want to avoid that but sadly we have to have the lesser of two evils, and that is not pre-emptive bans before any trial is held.
And as noted above; this is only an issue because of the leaked info. This should all be being done in private, and we don't know who else if anyone is riding under similar circumstances.
Strict liability is the rule in sports doping. Hence the failed test means he is guilty of doping. Its really that simple. Baxter lost his bronze medal for what was clearly an accidental ingestion of a banned substance in tiny amounts that could not possibly have affected his results. Others have as well.
It has to be this way to stop the contadors getting away with doping using bullshine excuses.
and if a lab has messed up the test?
and if a lab has messed up the test?
They process B samples fairly quickly don't they? Or do you mean they got it wrong twice?
The UCI's methodology is rubbish though. Froome gets most of the flak but it's the UCI's glacial speed at sorting it out that should be flamed. People should direct their gaze at the real issue.
Meanwhile, an innocent athlete loses the chance to participate while at his peak, because (for example) a lab **** up the test method.
That is your view, it’s not one supported by the majority of organisational bodies in today’s environment.
Have you an example where your scenario has actually occurred? Or is is hypothetical?
It’s unusual for him to go off on one, so I’m left wondering why and what was the motivation
Shit or bust? He has no interest in a mere podium position and only two days in which to pull back a huge deficit if he wants to win. It also appears he has spent a fair bit of time in the Sestriere area training and knows Finestre quite well. Dumoulin and Yates were both in decline having knocked spots off each other for two weeks.
I'm not a huge Froome fan, but that was a special ride. After all that expenditure of effort, today's stage could still offer up some interest.
+1 for what @slowoldman said ^^
Yates - while he's almost certainly going to be a GC contender in future years I don't think ever went into this expecting to win it. He's ridden smart (little bonus seconds here and there) knowing that he was going to have to ride the TT of his life to survive but I suspect there's a little bit of the old Thomas Voeckler about it - when TV was in yellow by virtue of ending up in the breakaway that got 30 minutes on the peloton) and he rode his heart out to stay in yellow day after day while the advantage was ruthlessly chipped away at by Lance and co. Took them about 10 days though!
I reckon the TT probably emptied him completely whereas for TD it'll have been a walk in the park.
Froome had a whole load of bad luck at the start which probably made him look worse than he actually was. That said, he's always been there or thereabouts in the GC and knows how to do the "reverse periodization" that @Kryton57 described a few posts above. Team GB do that on the track in Team Pursuit as it's become the only way to ride it. Start slow, finish stronger. Froome was forced into a more obvious position of that due to also recovering from his TT crash. It's amazing how shit he can look on a bike in technical situations (cobbles, tight TT courses) and still descend like a rocket. He took over a minute out of the chasers on the Finestre descent alone. And yes, he does know the descent very well, he's done a lot of training in and around Sestriere.
Great move though - I think people are only surprised by it because of the impression that Team Sky just sit there looking at their power meters which is actually not true. Today should be interesting - will TD accept 2nd place or try to attack? Realistically, barring disasters for them or miracles for the others, they're the only two in contention for the win. I'm wondering what happens in Rome if they're within a few seconds of each other, will it really be a ceremonial stage or will they be out to grab bonus seconds?
Yates understandably looked heart broken after the stage
How do I imbed video now?
Hence the failed test means he is guilty of doping
You can keep saying it but it wont make it true!
It’s not reverse periodisation though is it? Periodisation is making the workouts more like your A race the closer it becomes. Using the first two weeks of a stage race as prep for the third is surely the very definition of normal periodisation??
He’s just aimed the peak at week three 🤷🏻♂️
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2013/10/reverse-periodization.html
AA - it is true. strict liability for doping ie any adverse test is a doping fail.
The principle of strict liability is applied in situations where urine/blood samples collected from an athlete have produced adverse analytical results.
It means that each athlete is strictly liable for the substances found in his or her bodily specimen, and that an anti-doping rule violation occurs whenever a prohibited substance (or its metabolites or markers) is found in bodily specimen, whether or not the athlete intentionally or unintentionally used a prohibited substance or was negligent or otherwise at fault.
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/questions-answers/strict-liability-in-anti-doping
There's some discussion now on EuroSport commentary as to exactly what George Bennett meant when he said that Froome "did a Landis".
There's some frantic backpedalling going on now in the Team Lotto Jumbo!
it is true. strict liability for doping ie any adverse test is a doping fail.
So how is he currently winning the giro?
I just saw that crazy legs. What a plonka to make a statement like that . Didn't he follow it up with "Ridiculous, he shouldn't be here"?
If you actually look at the Prohibited List, salbutamol is not a prohibited substance in all circumstances. Its presence at concentrations above the specified threshold (which is what Froome had) is an Adverse Analytical Finding and requires explanation. Froome has not committed an anti-doping rule violation according to the definition above.
You can argue this is legalistic pedantry but it is also the current rules.
I am actually a huge Froome fan, and that was a special ride. After all that expenditure of effort, today’s stage could still offer up some interest.
FIFM.
I’ve always been a great admirer of Froomidge, I remember his epic ride in the Vuelta all those years ago when in Barlowworld colours, you could tell back then that the guy had a very special talent.
Does Tom do a Froomidge today? Shit or Bust as you say ??
Exciting end to a very up and down Giro, for sure.
dpfr
The principle of strict liability is applied in situations where urine/blood samples collected from an athlete have produced adverse analytical results.
The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is not consistent with therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves,through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of a therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above.
My bold- he is in the process of trying to prove the abnormal result is due to legitimate use, therefore not guilty at this point
Ok we get it tj. You believe anyone who produces an AAR should be immediately suspended and branded a doper. Fair enough thats your take on it, i reckon it's a rubbish view but your entitled to it. But cycling doesn't share your view and that's all that matters. Why can't you just have your say and leave it at that ??
Have you an example where your scenario has actually occurred? Or is is hypothetical?
Hypothetical.
Just as it's currently hypothetical that Froome's AAF is because he overdosed on his allowed medication.
It should be being reviewed in private, why it was released I don't know. And why it is taking so long, don't know either.
guilty till proven innocent then.
Not really. It's akin to an employee being suspended pending the outcome of an investigation.
Reverse periodisation
Apologies but this phrase does my head in. Reverse periodisation suggests an athletes starts their preparation with race like efforts and then makes his training less like the race as it approaches. Which is nonsense, especially as he raced in the Tour if the Alps on the run in.
He did however seem to have planned to peak for the final week, much like the Tour last year.
whine all you like about the doping side of things...
fantastic days racing, the like of which is not seen often enough.
great work froome.
And what happened to the moving roadblock Sky employ?
you wait til todays stage
You can knock George Bennett all you like but he’s right, Froome did do a Landis. It’s not to say Froome isn’t clean but it was a Landis move, and it’s OK to say that IMO.
Not really. It’s akin to an employee being suspended pending the outcome of an investigation.
True..... except the penalty for a suspension in cycling and (in this case) being forced to miss a race that comes once a year, and which you can't necessarily enter every year based on other targets.... it's not like spending 2 weeks on gardening leave followed by an apology.
a rolling roadblock, or another killer move by froome whereby he puts another 5mins into Dumoulin.
I actually hope for the former, with froome clearly hurt by yesterdays effort and doing everything in his power to cling on... its only for one day, so hardly 'killing' the race
Not really. It’s akin to an employee being suspended pending the outcome of an investigation.
But if you were suspended from work, couldn't complete a major project, lost any chance of bonuses and it had a huge effect on your future career. Then the investigation showed you'd done nothing wrong, would that be right ??
Ta DPFR - thats a clarification I didn't know.
Yes I do believe all dopers should be banned immediately. Its a real shame UCI does not do this as it allows dopers to continue riding and thus further damages a sport known worldwide for doping.
No, but in that case I suspect you'd have a reasonable chance of claiming some form of recompense. They won't rerun the Giro because an AAF turns out to be wrong.