[Closed] GIANT Propel, More roadie content

The view from a few friends who have them is "fast but dull". Very quick bikes, stiff, look good, but the ride is a but dull and uninspiring from what they say. The early ones had poor brakes too though i believe that has now been sorted.

Personally, I'd stay away from Giant

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/fishers-and-giant-can-blow-me

I got a propel this year after my tarmac got written off in a crash. It is definitely easier to hold 20 mph and it feels when better at 25 mph. I don't know how much is down to the frame and how much is down to deep wheels.

Comfort seems fine but i didn't get on with the saddle.

I don't know how inspirational it is. They are certainly more utilitarian than a pinnarello but they a far cheaper.

Well I have two Propels (an Advanced and an Advanced SL) and two Defy's (an alloy 5 and an Advanced SL - non disk Paris-Roubaix winning version).

First point, there is little difference between the Advanced and the Advanced SL bikes. They really do feel the same and the weight difference is less than a water bottle. Giant moved to an alloy steerer on their cheaper models - perhaps the one you are looking at, and that may have some influence on weight (but no stiffness), but all of mine are carbon monocoque forks including the alloy Defy.

Now how does the Propel ride compared with the Defy? Well it always feels faster. The Defy is a lovely mile muncher, half a kilo lighter (SL has Dura Ace and was the lightest frame they ever made), and I have raced it to no acclaim on the road. The Propel just say go faster! I race the Propel and it honestly just disappears from underneath me. That is the best compliment one can pay a bike. I also feel less fatigued near the end of a 45 km circuit race, but that may also be due to other aero additions (helmet and skinsuit provide more benefits).

I have both old and new versions of the Giant p-SLR wheels. The older alloy rimmed wheels are very robust and I love the breaking surface. The all carbon are lighter, slightly deeper. Both have been crashed (and I mean REALLY crashed: Alloy into the side of a car at 20 mph, carbon into a bank at 36 mph OTB!) and survived with just a small truing of the front.

My Propels are really just race bikes. I'll be out on Sunday riding 100 miles at Ride London on the SL, however, as I did last year. It is the fastest bike for the ride, and I find it very comfortable over four hours. They are also probably the most popular bike in the amateur peloton at the moment. I'll be racing mine this evening.

They probably aren't the best looking of bikes to be fair (Althoug hthe white Propel SL drew a lot of compliments), but for sheer accomplishment, Giant make excellent road bikes. But if I was really to keep just one bike, it would be the Defy SL with deep section carbon wheels, or possibly the new TCR SL, but I don't have to choose.

If you are local, drop me a line.

First point, there is little difference between the Advanced and the Advanced SL bikes. They really do feel the same and the weight difference is less than a water bottle. Giant moved to an alloy steerer on their cheaper models - perhaps the one you are looking at, and that may have some influence on weight (but no stiffness), but all of mine are carbon monocoque forks including the alloy Defy.

There's a Pro in between the normal and SL too, just to mix things up further.

I was torn when choosing recently, but ended up with a TCR instead as I might as well take full advantage of weighing naff-all. Don't think you can go far wrong with any of them though.

TiRed, one thing that keeps come up for Propels is max tyre size. Reckon you could get a 25c in there if you were that way inclined?

P.S. Avoid the matte paint jobs if possible, totally pain in the arse to keep clean

I sold my full dura ace Emonda SLR to go back to a Propel, couldnt get one in time, theyd all gone, so short term am on a TCR which is pretty nice ..... but cant wait to get a 2017 Propel, was just perfect!

I race the Propel and it honestly just disappears from underneath me.

I've a TCR and would say much the same about it. Use it for summer training and racing, really is a very good tool for the job. Encourages rapid progress, especially with a nice set of wheels. Maybe that's what people think makes it dull.

If I was buying new I'd definitely get a ride on a Propel, though I'd really like to try the new TCR.

Reckon you could get a 25c in there if you were that way inclined?

I'd be surprised if you couldn't. Pretty much the whole pro peloton is on 25c and there's a few Propel in there.

TiRed, one thing that keeps come up for Propels is max tyre size. Reckon you could get a 25c in there if you were that way inclined?

I've just ridden to work on some Vittoria Corsa G+ skinwalls in 25c. These measure up at almost 28c! I wouldn't want wider tyre. They keep me planted at 30 mph on the Surrey lanes just fine. I've also run 25c Schwalbe Ones with no issues either. Again, not exactly skinny tyres. And the rims are 21 mm wider section too.

The clearance is really only an issue for the straddle wire for on the rear brake. Clearance is about 3 mm, so tight (think scraping debris sometimes in the wet) but as I have said, not been an issue. My Propel Advanced is currently wearing a set of SKS raceguard longs mudguards bodged to the brake wire.

Original Propel brakes were poorly designed and the pinch bolts rounded easily. I replaced them with the Fourier brakes on my Advanced. Giant upgraded the design on newer models and offered a recall. The new brakes are every bit a good as the Fouriers so I haven't bothered to swap them over.

Tyre clearance shown in this picture (unlike Haytor!)
[img] ?oh=4c9c387882d3d72c93b8b9330ce24c94&oe=5817C9F0[/img]

[s]TiRed, looks like you've gone down a few sizes on the new bike :-)[/s]

Ninja editing!

Thanks, well that just about clinches it. I can see just by looking at it that it's all I need save for the wheels, the same specced Pinnerello is £3,700.

I'd have to run 25's, and I saw that All but 1 pro rider in this years peloton were running 25's except for Adam Yates who was on 23's.
I'm wondering if there is any more clearance in the 2017 model to accommodate a wider tyre.

AAANnnnnnnnnd, Brakes........
As an avid "Hater" of Disks on road bikes I found myself for the first time ever wondering if a disk brake road bike might be next for me, which rules out the propel. Strines on Saturday morning heading down Deliverance? With the bridge at the bottom into a right hander, I kinda felt under braked there attempting to scrub some speed off. Heading away from cut throat bridge side towards polka dot cafe.

haha! Edited out as different link 😉 Haytor picture is more useful. After I had the Advanced rebuilt with a new fork - specifically sourced to match the frame (no easy task but Giant came good), both Propels are set up identically with the same aero bars and stem length. Old one is running 10 speed ultegra on a compact 11-23, new one is stock.

The ONE thing that is a downer is that the aero Giant carbon bars are a pain to fit a Garmin mount to. Giant now make a proper metal mount, but I much prefer my K-Edges on the other bikes. This is not an option because unlike most aero bars, there is no round cross section exposed beyond the clamping zone. Took a long time for Giant to fix this, but they have. It also means that adjusting the angle of the computer is not possible independently of the bar angle, and I'm a bit fussy about this.

If discs are climbing your priority list then one of the disc equipped TCRs might be of interest?

TiRed, you probably already know this but [url= http://www.racewaredirect.co/shop/carbon-garmin-mount-for-giant-propel/ ]RaceWare do one for the SLR aero bars on the Propel[/url].

Rode both the Defy SL with alloy rims and Dura Ace dual pivot brakes, and the Propel SL with carbon rims and custom Propel brakes over Dartmoor a few times. Even on dry days there was no comparison in performance, the alloy/calipers are vastly superior on the big descents. For me, disks with deep carbon rims are the only real justification for disk braking. I'm very happy with alloy rims and dual pivots.

A bit like tubs vs. clinchers, alloy rimmed carbon wheels make a lot more sense for general riding, but we have to look pro, so deep section alloy rims are now pretty rare 8) .

EDIT: Have one of the raceware mounts. I snapped the first installing it so they sent a second. It kept loosening on the bars. The Giant all metal version is much better, just not as elegant as the K-Edge - a bit like Giant bikes really, not as elegant as a Colnago, but I know which one I'd rather crash on!

TiRed, how much of that braking performance difference is down to the alloy vs carbon rims? The propel brakes are just effectively MTB V-brakes, maybe with less leverage, and they were better than caliper brakes, so surely the braking performance is more about the materials of the rim and brake blocks - even if you might have to pull harder on the levers due to mechanical leverage differences.

Wobbliscot, on mtb v brakes were great compared to old mtb canti brakes, not road caliper brakes.

Didn't take both bikes to swap the wheels 😉 . I think the Propel brakes are pretty good actually, but dual pivot calipers acting on alloy rims are just so much better. I did race the Advanced Propel with alloy rims and V brakes and it was good too, just not over the same descents.

Dura Ace dual pivots are superb.

Well I bit the bullet and received my new 2016 Propel Adv 1 today. Just done a quick shakedown ride around the block a few times and it feels great. Got it set up a bit more aggressively than my previous Defy but not uncomfortable at all - probably because my Defy was and M/L and probably a tad too large and this is a Medium so probably fits better. I really don't anticipate it being too uncomfortable on longer rides. The saddle is alot comfier - it seems to be complaint and a bit bendy in the middle so that should help on the comfort front. The brakes feel every bit as good as my 105 calliper brakes, if not better - difficult to tell decisively on the strength of a quick few blasts around the block, but definitely not worse - yet to be properly tested but initial feel is very good. I never found my 105 brakes wanting, even in the Alps a few weeks ago - On the twisty descents I ran out of balls before my brakes were really challenged. Disks would be better for sure but i'm not that fussed on my road bike. Got it at the £1200 sale price - a frigging steal I think for an Advanced frame, 22 speed Ultegra. That's what I paid for my base spec non-advanced carbon Defy with Tiagra 2 years ago. Can't wait to get it out on a proper ride.

Welcome to the club!

Got it at the £1200 sale price - a frigging steal I think for an Advanced frame

You did 😯 . My original Propel Advanced frame only price was £1300 (less 10% discount), and I added new Fourier brakes to that at £200.

My Defys and Propels are set up identically. You can still feel the difference between the two (thankfully!), but the Propel was fine over 140 miles on Sunday. It was a lot more fun in last night's race though 😈

There's some stonking deals on Propels at the moment. Luckily I'm yet to see many deals on TCRs, but I know it's coming 🙁

Disc equipped TCR's I though it was only the Defy that was disc?

Edit - where are the deals on Propels?

Very tempted at £1200
out of interest what size are you that fits a M as opposed to an M/L?
I am 5ft 11 tall with short legs , only a 31" inseam , and I think my Roubaix is a 56cm.
I take there is a couple of hundred gms to be saved on wheels/tubes/tyres over OE items too.

I am 5ft 11 tall with short legs

You will need a medium. Possibly with a 120mm stem for your longer body. I'm 5'10.5" and 33 inseam and ride a M with a 115 mm stem in a reasonably aggressive but not slammed position. I started with a 100 mm stem and just kept going.

There's some stonking deals on Propels at the moment. Luckily I'm yet to see many deals on TCRs, but I know it's coming

Pedalon have got some deals on TCR's at the moment. I keep hovering over the buy now button but I know my wife would kill me if I did!

You can get TCR's with 20% off, but were Giant last year doing 40% off?

as the Defy has 35% off on their site

I cant see that ?

From the limited reading I've done the Propel looks good if you just want to get your head down on the flat, but if your go up hill much your better with a TCR

Singletrackmind - i'm 5'9"/5'10" with 31" legs. The M/L felt fine initially and on the test ride before I bought it but after a few rides it just felt a bit big. I could have got a shorter stem but i'd be looking at quite a short stem. This Medium feels alot better. I had to cut the seat post down by a few inches as it was bottoming out before I set the height right, so obviously a short arse. but looks great now it's set up.

Got one coming, effectively for free as I did a few days work for my old boss without asking for any money.
I suggested a nice shiney bike in way of renumeration and one will be arriving in the next week or so .
Medium Propel Advanced 1 in Orange / Grey .

I'm sure you'll be pleased. I've got the first proper ride on mine planned for tomorrow morning and looking forward to it - maybe I should put the beer i'm drinking right now down!

2 questions for current Propel owners - I removed the 23c tyre shod wheels it came with for my current wheel set with 25c's on. The wider tyres fouled with the brakes but there seems no way to widen the brakes - I ended up letting the air out - not a major problem, just a minor inconvenience, but is there a way to release the brakes when changing a wheel?

the other question is that the half of the brake where the outer cable comes in, has a recess where the outer cable sits. There is a second recess next to it. What's that for - it is horizontally next to it so I can't see how it changes the leverage or anything like that?

You just squeeze the brake by hand and pop the 'noodle' out of its little holder don't you? Same as any other v brake, except it goes out the side rather than the top

EDIT: bin dun - https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/news/article/how.to.removing.a.propel.wheel/18736/

EDIT2: that ^ also explains the other recess

OK, except when I tried squeezing them together they wouldn't squeeze far enough to release - maybe when the brake blocks are more worn. Q2 sorted!

I loosen the barrel adjusters until the cable has enough stretch. Then it's pretty easy to remove the wheels. Not as fast as the little lever on dual pivots, but one suffers for the watts 😉

Thanks TIRed, it's minor issue and like you say, a small price to pay for the additional performance - and lord knows I need as much help as possible on the performance side.

First shakedown ride today, a 30 mile circuit. I love the way it rode. I didn't find it too stiff or uncomfortable despite have the riding position set up in a more aggressive position. I also managed to get alot of personal records on that particular route - OK only one ride but I did have a bit of a head wind and my legs were knackered from a pretty brutal spin session yesterday but there is bound to be a few additional percent of 'new bike effort', but either way it feels fast.

I did get some clicking coming from the left hand BB side I think. Not constant or with every pedal rev, It seems to reduce in frequency as the ride progressed so i'll have to keep an eye on that.

Strava or it didn't happen

@wobbliscott

The clicking is normally a loose headset allowing the fork to move on the headset bearings on each pedal stroke - frame makes it sound like BB or pedal

Quick check - see if the stem spacers can be turned by hand 😉

Its arrived
Its out of its box and it looks fast even whilst stationary
Feels light in the hands , but think the stem / bar combo is weighty
Nervous about cutting the seatpost down

Might go crazy and get a full bike fit once its fully assembled

Just thought i'd update after making the purchase..........

PROPEL Pro 0

Raw black with Blue decals, bought in the sale just over a montha ago, I'd pretty much agree with everything said on here especially the clicking whilst peddling.............. jeezus, its doing my head in. Glad i came back to read the thread as the stem stack hasnt been looked at.

I bought the SLR stem to match the bars and wheels, Absolutely loving the Di2 or is it Ui2? Ultegra?

It's probably taken me 3-4 weeks to get used to it, initially i thought i'd made the mother of all cork ups as i wasnt that much quicker than on my ally X Bike. The standard tyres are dismal, they lack the grip are harsh and very unforgiving leading me to back off in the corners or when it's damp.
So i bought some Vittoria Open Pave in 25mm and my word, what a difference. it was quick before now its just sublime, The ride was a bit harsh leading to some clacking coming from the under side of the bars where the cables exit, this was slightly annoying on rougher surfaces so i thought about plugging the gap by wrapping some self amalgamating tape around the cables at the point of entry. Well the Vittorias have almost solved this completely except for the roughest of surfaces. They offer great absorbtion due to the 320 TPI Carcass and are very grippy indeed.

So, my average speed has increased from 16.5MPH - 17.3's on my old bike to 17.5 - 18.8's, I'm finding i can hold speed better and that i'm less fatigued whilst on the bike. Less out of breath? more willing to sprint and actually seeing rewards if that makes sense. My thigh muscles are aching as a result of the increased effort i've noticed whilst climbing and out of the saddle sprinting.

So all in all i'm very happy with it, ordinarily it wouldn't have been my first choice for a bike having never owned a Giant but i'm glad i bought it.

NOT Looking forward to Winter nd putting it away, so i'm making the most of this weather and i'm off out after coffee and a Cliff Crunchy peanut bar to nip off a 45 miler.

Pics?

I bet a good deal of that increase is due to a better position on the bike.

After excluding the easy stuff( skewers and pedals) try lubing the headset cups if that doesnt work try some bearing fit fluid between the cups and the frame, it recently worked for me.

I bet a good deal of that increase is due to a better position on the bike.

If not then a good chunk of it is probably the deep section wheels. Also a nice stiff race frame does encourage you put a bit more effort in 🙂

So i bought some Vittoria Open Pave in 25mm

Hopefully mounted on latex tubes!

NOT Looking forward to Winter nd putting it away,

Race blades?

I'll take som pics, however I've no idea how to post them.

The whole bike is stiff, in a positive way it's also slightly longer in the top tube so that gets me laid out a bit more, plus the stem is flat where the Thomson stem I have on my other bike is raised so it's a lot more comfier than the Propel over longer distances, did 50 odd miles yesterday and my ass was numb on that saddle afterwards. and it does encourage a bit more gusto, with the open paves it humms along nicely on the file tread pattern.

And no not on latex tubes, does it make that much difference ?
To a full carbon bike I'm guessing it does

and my ass was numb on that saddle afterward

Not a surprise, not a fan of the Giant saddle they come with.

Should've got Corsa Speeds for moar speeds coz of teh graphene! (bargain at £60 each)

And no not on latex tubes, does it make that much difference ?

I think so.

did 50 odd miles yesterday and my ass was numb on that saddle afterwards.

Does it still come with the Fizik Arione? Never got on with an Arione myself. TBH much like with pedals, I don't know why they sell bikes with a standard saddle, though they usually fit a cheap heavy one expecting you to bin it.

It comes with one of Giants own saddles, because colour coordinated

Yes colour coordinated giants own branded one. looks nice but has square edges off the main seating face down the centre channel making it really unfriendly,

Legend, have you seen how little mileage can be had from a pair of the speeds, it's scary, I'd need sponsoring to warrant that kind of shy mileage. I stumbled upon several pairs recently whilst away with work and bought enough 25mm Paves to last a while.

Have you got the new graphene jobbies?

Corsas worked out at £15 each tyre.

god no, I'm still wearing out the stock tyres. Just wanted someone else to try them 😉

My thigh muscles are aching as a result of the increased effort i've noticed whilst climbing

Why is that, is it a slightly different position, heavier weight compared to a road bike, or just that you are attacking stuff more?

I looked at TCR v Propel and decided on TCR as the Propel wouldn't really suit the hilly riding that I do.

I'd have to run 25's, and I saw that All but 1 pro rider in this years peloton were running 25's except for Adam Yates who was on 23's.

Interesting, have you got a link?

I'm certainly attacking more, I was worried about the Propel Climbing myself but coming from metal to carbon I kinda figured there must be some gain in materials alone.

There's no flex, in the past I've had the blocks rubbing on ally rims on a few good steep climbs as I've gotten out of the saddle, this thing without sounding cheesy just Propels you forwards, you can hear it in the tyres and the wheels as the powers transferred through. It definately lays down the effort you put in.

Maybe my previous bike was too flexy? This thing isn't, make no bones about it with its shorter wheelbase you know your on a race bike. It suits me well. I do a fair bit of climbing as well and it rewards you.

I'll try and find it, it was on CW's site.

The lone rider was Adam Yates.

It did have the exception of TT bikes where it said all were on 23's

Edited, I think it might have been road cc but I'll have a sniff at CW as well.

http://road.cc/content/feature/197000-10-top-tech-trends-2016-tour-de-france

Dimension Data are apparently running 28s! GCN were talking about it in the recent Enve video, where the wheel were basically designed to run with the tyres they were using

Still loving mine. Coming form a Defy I don't find the position too extreme at all so no grumbles there. It's a stiff bike, but so was the Defy, and it's lighter than the Defy so climbs better despite the higher gearing. I'm struggling to identify any downsides to be honest. There does appear to be some 'free speed' on the flats but not sure if this is just new bike syndrome.

So this 23c v 25c thing hurts my brain, but it does appear that 25c is happening. Any tips on what to do with pressures when going up? Currently running 90(f) and 95(r) on 23s, I weigh naff all, so start with something like 85(f) and 90(r) for 28?

So this 23c v 25c thing hurts my brain,

At the same pressure a 25mm will have less rolling resistance than a 23mm. So you can run a 25mm at lower pressure than a 23mm and have the same rolling resistance and a smoother ride (which will also make it quicker.)

Pretty much the entire pro-peloton have moved over to 25mm now, other than for TT where better aero from being narrow still mostly trumps better rolling resistance.

Re pressures, it depends what you want. More pressure = less rolling resistance but less comfort, less pressure = more rolling resistance but more comfort. Good smooth roads you'd probably go for the former. Poor country lanes, you might go for the latter. Racing you'd probably go for the former. Pootling and you'd probably go for the latter.

25c, 78 kg all in weight including me, bike and bottles. I run at 100F/110R or thereabouts on Vittoria Corsa G+. This is on Surrey lanes. I run 110F/115R on closed circuits.

I'd say my Defy SL is stiffer than my Propel. Position is the same but the stem is 5 mm longer on the Defy because the head angle is half a degree slacker. It is also lighter. The Propel is, however light enough. I've raced both on flat and hilly courses. In circuit races aero definitely buys "free speed", but in reality this is "less energy for the same speed as everyone else", leading to less fatigue near the end of the race. In road races, I'm faster coasting downhill than many riders, despite being smaller. Some of this is Propel aero, but a lot is skinsuit and helmet.

I'm happy with mine and will be racing it again tomorrow morning 🙂

In circuit races aero definitely buys "free speed", but in reality this is "less energy for the same speed as everyone else", leading to less fatigue near the end of the race.

But a potential trade off for having to accelerate more mass (all marginal of course)?

I'm about 10kg lighter than you, so the pressures probably aren't far off

But a potential trade off for having to accelerate more mass (all marginal of course)?

I like to try and minimise rolling resistance at the expense of comfort (it's only a couple of hours of pain) so am a little on the high side for road. The G+ tyres are very supple and that makes them comfortable. I sue the same pressures on the Defy running narrow rims.