[Closed] getting used to rd bike braking

anyone else find the transition unsettling?

Yes, but not as much since I got the brakes set up properly.

**would still like discs though

I always tended to view brakes on my road bike as more for 'scrubbing off speed' than actual 'stopping quickly' so was never disappointed when approaching trouble to find they weren't immediately to hand.

Having said that, if you ride 'on the hoods' most of the time (which most roadies do) then you've got the brakes covered anyway?

nope. you should be braking exactly the same as on your mtb (ie. only when required).. you should be able to reach the brake levers on the drops and on the hoods you can cover them.. you'll be on the hoods in any situation where you need to cover them (busy traffic in towns etc.)
Why would anyone want discs on a roadbike?

I find them quite powerfull acutaly, easily enough to lock up the rear wheel, why on earth would you want disks? On a crosser in mud I can kinda see the point, or as a tandem drag brake, but for general use?

I always tended to view brakes on my road bike as more for 'scrubbing off speed' than actual 'stopping quickly' so was never disappointed when approaching trouble to find they weren't immediately to hand.

GW - I realise it's more about available traction and having quick reflexes but road bike brakes (like most rim brakes) are laughable in their ineffectiveness - combined with tyres that have, at best, only a passing aquaintance with a wet road surface it's arecipe for falling off on the first down hill off camber corner you find (in my experience).

One tip:

When descending a very steep hill with a hairpin half way down in wet, slippery conditions - do not leave you're braking too late and then decide to get off the front brake to avoid having to turn with it on

no, that would be a bad idea 😥

uplink - once you're down you do tend to slide better on a wet road though, ime.

I think thats the key - PLAN AHEAD when on a rd bike.

My attitude with it is that road bikes are so responsive and narrow that brakes are just for scrubing off speed before corners. Any emergency is best delt with by swerving and avoidance!

road bike brakes (like most rim brakes) are laughable in their ineffectiveness

realise it's more about available traction and having quick reflexes but road bike brakes (like most rim brakes) are laughable in their ineffectiveness - combined with tyres that have, at best, only a passing aquaintance with a wet road surface it's arecipe for falling off on the first down hill off camber corner you find (in my experience).

Disks won't compensate for duff technique though. I'm no spring chicken, in fact I'm half as heavy again as most serious roadies, and I've not found the brakes inadequate, even Winnats pass was rideable, felt more in danger of going OTB than running out of brakes!

Get better brakes !

[i]I don't even know you[/i]

clearly.

GW - Member

Why would anyone want discs on a roadbike?

Not that I do on my 'proper' road bike, but stopping in the wet, saving your rims are good enough reasons. I tour on an uncle John, and it stops much easier with BB5's than it does with cantis or mini v's

On my hybrid commuter the thing that gets me about the brakes is if it is at all grotty weather, bit damp, mucky, whatever I pull on the brakes until I am slowing as much as I want, then after presumably one rotation of the wheel I suddenly get a lot more braking. Not normally a problem but nearly caught me out when I am hooning down a steep hill towards a tight bumpy corner trying to loose the car behind me (unsuccessfully but you have to enjoy the downs don't you).
Usually enough outright power but do you not get a similar effect if braking force suddenly ramping up once the rim is cleaned?

Aye, Paul. proper roadbike is what I meant.. I mostly ride rural routes on mine and can often ride for half an hour without ever braking at all. rims last me the life of the bike (other than one huge pothole on a night ride years back)

if it is at all grotty weather, bit damp, mucky, whatever I pull on the brakes until I am slowing as much as I want, then after presumably one rotation of the wheel I suddenly get a lot more braking.

Usually enough outright power but do you not get a similar effect if braking force suddenly ramping up once the [b]Disc[/b] is cleaned?

my road brake brakes are excellent. cheap tektros on a £500 boardman.

who knows what you lot are up to with rubbish brakes?

only thing to watch out for on a road bike is descending with the brakes on - no weight on the rear - the smallest of turns can send the rear end sliding. 😯

only thing to watch out for on a road bike is descending with the brakes on - no weight on the rear - the smallest of turns can send the rear end sliding

see my post above 🙂

GW-but it just doesn't happen on my bikes with discs, even when being used to commute with slicks (well, semi slicks but not knobblies), or at least I have never noticed it happen, but thanks for trying to fix it for me anyway 😉

get used to descending in the drops rather than trying to maintain that upright mtb position.

If the UCI allowed it and Shimano et al could make road disc brakes as light as calipers then most of the pro-riders would use them.

The biggest advantage of disk over rim brakes is modulation (even more so with carbon rimmed road wheels, I'd guess) you can brake harder (and for less time) because you have more control over the amountof force being exerted via the braking surface and thus whether the wheel locks.

I've been playing devils advocate (to a certain extent) but road brakes are notoriously poor on bad surfaces and in wet conditions - partly due to wet braking surfaces but also due to the small contact patch and uncertain modulation.

wwaswas - Member
If the UCI allowed it and Shimano et al could make road disc brakes as light as calipers then most of the pro-riders would use them.

😆

Have you ever raced, wwaswas?

wow!! Most professional road riders would use the latest kit from their sponsors? really? Nothing like mountain biking then 😉

Hmmm, i thought modulation was better the bigger the disc, and your rims are a pretty big disc.
Proper dual pivot calipers seem strong enough to lock up either wheel to me. Admittedly mini Vs and cantis aren't so powerful.
Some good points for discs are your rims last a lot longer and you don't have to fettle them (tho can't remember ever having to fettle dual pivot cantis) and maybe heavy tourers need the extra power dunno never toured.

I frequently end up going too quick (eg. approaching tight corners) on my road bike and it always seems to be lack of grip that limits braking.

To the OP change your setup so you can cover the brakes from the drops and the hoods.

[i]Have you ever raced, wwaswas? [/i]

Not on the road but I've watched a few descents on the big stage races and I can't see why you'd not want to use the most effective brake available.

This conversation feels like the disk versus V-brake arguments that Mtbers were having 10 years ago.

It's all opinion and personal experience, GW rides everywhere on traffic free roads and never brakes, I ride in mixed conditions and find road brakes of dubious benefit descending steep hills in the wet.

Neither of us is particularly right or wrong other than about ourselves and what we want from a bike.

Yes pro riders often race what they're given but their sponsors probably wouldn't send them out on soemthign that was going to make them lose?

Before road bikes get discs they'll have to deal with dissapating the heat generated from braking at 50kph using a 140 disc! Rims get hot enough on alpine decsents to soften tub glue!!

I really can't think of a situation in the wet or dry where I have thought I would want disc brakes on a road bike, I have always managed to lock up or nearly go over the bars before running out of braking power. If its wet just anticipate a little better and its not a problem.

I'd be surprised if pros would want discs. Having done a few decents in the alps, rim brakes make your wheels nice and hot which in turn makes your tyres nice and sticky, in fact the level of grip I would say doubles over a cold tyre.

Why would anyone want discs on a roadbike?

My road brakes are reasonable (but not good) in the dry, but worthless in the wet.

I really can't think of a situation in the wet or dry where I have thought I would want disc brakes on a road bike

Riding down [url= http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=llantrisant&aq=&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=15.717429,33.662109&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Llantrisant,+Pontyclun,+Rhondda+Cynon+Tall,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.573127,-3.306488&spn=0.001007,0.002055&t=h&z=19 ]here[/url] in the rain is a pretty persuasive situation.

I have mixed experiences with roadie brakes.
On my winter bike the cheap tektro long drop calipers with shite pads are not very good, and scary in the wet. I really need to get around to upgrading the pads. I would love discs on that bike when it is chucking down with rain.
In the dry though, on my good bike, the SRAM force dual pivot calipers with standard pads (made by swissstop for SRAM I think) are really, really powerful. Probably more powerful than the 203mm Hope M4's on my mountain bike.

I descend on the drops for proper 1 finger braking power.

AFAIC if you can pull a endo 180 on an Ultegra equipped PX then they're powerful enough.
In fact all road brakes are more than good enough for the job. You couldn't race bumper to bumper otherwise.
It'll be set up.

Edit; confesses I can't manage a full 180, more like endo 45o

Having done a few decents in the alps, rim brakes make your wheels nice and hot

Didn't that lead to a [career ending] crash for someone in the TDF - His tyres un-glued themselves

Armstrong was chasing him at the time & ended up going off piste a bit

EDIT: - This one

Not sure I feel the need for discs on mine, I'd have thought they'd send me straight to the floor when I need to grab a handful.

Back end gets lively enough already on those rare occasions...

Misquote GW

GW rides everywhere on traffic free roads and never brakes

AFAIC if you can pull a endo 180 on an Ultegra equipped PX then they're powerful enough

No, that just means you can throw your weight forwards 🙂 I can endo bikes with crap brakes.

Having done a few decents in the alps, rim brakes make your wheels nice and hot which in turn makes your tyres nice and sticky, in fact the level of grip I would say doubles over a cold tyre.

uplink - ok so thats one example in many thousands of decents.

The difference in grip is truly amazing though, which you wouldnt get with disc brakes. Great when you stop at the bottom too and loads of grit sticks to your tyres.

No, that just means you can throw your weight forwards I can endo bikes with crap brakes

I'm talking unintentionally....nah just kidding.
There simply isn't an issue here.

anyone else find the transition unsettling?

Me too - just couldn't get used to riding drops & braking on bumpy gravel filled potholes around the chilterns, used to always ride road bikes 20+ years ago but now ride flat bar hybrids instead (with either dics or v brakes btw) when out for a road ride. If I lived somewhere with flatter & smoother roads would probably get a proper road bike though.

It was a bit lairy on occasions during this winter when road water would freeze on rims/brakes and braking would be non existent until some heat got into them

There simply isn't an issue here

There is on my bike.

Seriously. When I grab my brakes I expect at least a moderate amount of retarding force. I am not making this up for the hell of it. And yes I've cleaned the rims, tried different pads, sanded the glaze off etc etc.

Using decent pads is a good place to start, and SwissStop are top notch:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=42658

Manufacturers are starting to make disc brakes for roadbikes. Not quite Dura Ace level, but it's only a matter of time:

http://www.veloecosse.com/productdetails.asp?productid=15463

http://www.tektro.com/_english/01_products/01_prodetail.php?pid=100&sortname=Disc&sort=1&fid=1

I like the look of the Lyras, and I reckon my BB5s have saved me two sets of rims already. Then again I ride a Tourer, not a proper road bike.

Those Swissstop ones are good but pricey

I found the Kool Stop Salmon ones a vast improvement to the standard Shimano 105 OEMs

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/kool-stop-dura-aceultegra105-pair-of-cartridge-inserts/

Retarding force 😆

What brake/rim are you using? They should be seriously good. Using another racing situation to put it in perspective. When the bunch is hooning downhill all trying to be the first into the bend there's never any problems. You even get a massive cloud of brake dust thrown up.....which made me go Woooo when I first saw it happen.

[i]Seriously. When I grab my brakes I expect at least a moderate amount of retarding force. I am not making this up for the hell of it. And yes I've cleaned the rims, tried different pads, sanded the glaze off etc etc. [/i]

You're doing something wrong then, go see what a shop says about it. Lots of people on road bikes ride really fast and feel that their brakes are capable of stopping them in a reasonable distance.

almost all mountainbike "enthusiasts" these days feel they "need" to have disc brakes on their mountain bike no matter how lame the terrain it's going to be ridden on turning most of them into a bunch of pussies. same with longer travel trail bikes.

the only retarding force is the rider..

Anyone who wants to confirm their non-pussy status I have some XT/XTR Vs and some magura hydro rim brakes for sale 🙂

You're doing something wrong then

Like what? Last time this came up btw a lot of people also complained about 105 brakes.

feel that their brakes are capable of stopping them in a reasonable distance feel that their brakes are capable of stopping them in a reasonable distance

And I don't - in the wet. Maybe my standards have been progressively raised since M-System and then discs were invented but the brakes on my road bike in the rain will NOT stop me quickly enough in an emergency. That's a fact.

Why? I'd love to know. Either you have different brakes, have different standards, don't ride in solid rain or you depend on avoiding things rather than stopping, rollerblader style.

I got used to stopping on 6d on my MTB, so I feel like I'd like to do this on a road bike too.

Anyone wants to confirm their pussy status status I've got some Hayes So1e in my garage waiting for a new home, mind you, if you've ever used them in anger you probably not that much of a pussy. They are worse than dual pivots! 😉

Like what? Last time this came up btw a lot of people also complained about 105 brakes

go see what a shop says about it.

105 brakes are OK - It's what I have
As above though, they were greatly improved with the Koolstop pads

I've got disc brakes on my road bike with full mudguards and a rack and it makes it sssooo much better for year round commuting. When its raining really hard, rim brakes just don't work. If someone pulls out on you, you're stuffed. it doesn't matter how carefully you ride, unexpected stuff can always happen.

A road bike tyre has more grip than a mtb tyre in many situations too, locking up wheels just doesn't happen (unless you want it to).

having said all this, my road bike would probably be considered a "tourer" but i can't be bothered trying to work out what niche its in.

If its got drops and slicks its a road bike!

it makes it sssooo much better for year round commuting

No it doesn't! You LIE! LIE!