[Closed] Genesis Croix de Fer, worth it?

I'm looking at the 20 and 10 btw (20 really) so lower end of the range.

I have one from 2016 and am very happy with it although, in an ideal world it would be a bit lighter, more tyre clearance (38/40mm is max really) and hydrologic brakes.

Dont know if new ones have any more tyre clearance?

In reality, the hy/rd brakes are ok but I have routed the cabled slightly differently to specified to reduce the lever throw. When i first got it a slight cable kink (couldnt even see it) rentered the rear brake useless. That said, it rode the trans-cambrian way fully loaded and, apart from the break issue (and an exploded tyre) it had no issues.

I have had a couple, last one being a 30 and really liked them. Can’t fit big tyres as is the current fashion but they are nicely made and good quality, if a bit pricey. I currently have a Fugio 30 and a Vagabond- I like Genesis bikes 😁

I use my CdF as a winter/touring bike, built it up during lockdown 1.0 as had a few components lying around.

Thinking of getting the carbon fork for it as will lose almost a kg from the weight.

It’s a good do-it-all bike for my needs.

The 2021 frame has better tyre clearance “ The ability to run up to a 45mm rear tyre and a 50mm front tyre on the provided 700c rims increase the all-terrain ability of the Croix - and it doesn't end there. If you want to experiment with 650B wheels, you could run up to a 44mm rear tyre and a 50mm front tyre.”

Do Ribble still do the steel CGR? Think that was a very nice looking 725 frame iirc, and possibly better vfm.

Obviously at the moment it really is about what you can get in stock as much as what you really want.

I keep coming back to the Croix de fer. The only thing that puts me off is some have described it as 'dull' or 'lifeless'. Not clear if they are talking about the feel of the frame, steering or what. It's a bit slacker in the HA than road bikes so that may be it.

There was a guy that posted in another forum about tyres. I think he had a '15 or '16 and could fit 40mm or 42mm depending on the specific tyre. He also got 650b with 50mm in there iirc.

Thanks all. Yeah, looking at 2021 model and that can take wider tyres. QR though so that's another consideration....

My last gravel/tourer was a lead weight Marin which I really liked so the heft doesn't put me off but if it's no better a bike than other much higher specced £1500 examples my money will probably go elsewhere but as mentioned, stock is going to be key and I think I can bag a CDF.

I think of my CDF frame as zingy and fast. The fork weighs more than the frame I reckon. 😆

I've had several Genesis bikes - An aether, an 853 Day One Alfine, a 725CdF and a 525CdF. They were all dull as ditchwater. Heavy, sluggish, lumpen things no matter how light they were built up (Crest rims and DA kit on the 725, Di2 on the DOA), they were always rubbish and sucked the life out of rides.

For context, I've had my fair share of gravel/tourer/road bikes (11 in 8 years) and I can honestly say the Genesis bikes were the dullest of the lot.

Also, this isn't just a bias against a single material (steel) the Aether was aluminium, and my Kona Band Wagon is steel and it rides beautifully.

I looked at them. I just struggled to get past the weight, particularly as I don't have plans for heavy duty touring.
I also relate to stepping from Sanderson Breath (one of the sprightliest steel HT around) to my Alu Marin. The Marin is no less comfy, just feels different. Tyres, wheels, seatpost and saddle make much much more difference imo.
I ended up with a much lighter alu frame, full carbon fork, bolt through, two groupsets up and £200 less...
I'd love a steel frame back again, but frankly I'm aiming for finding a wedge and phoning Mr Shand...

I had a Croix de Fer for 5 years and it saw a good number of miles and was a decent ‘do everything’ bike. I’d still be riding it were it not for the fact that it got driven into...

That said, I always thought it was a bit lifeless and surprisingly firm/uncomfortable considering the supposed benefits of steel. I’d ache MUCH less when riding my Aluminium Defy on a long road ride, for example. The steel fork and heavy wheels on my 2015 CdF ‘20’ were particular lowlights. I always wondered whether it’d ride nicer with a lighter spec although the post above suggests maybe not. And yeah, tyre clearance was more ‘touring’ than ‘gravel’ (I could squeeze 38s in but my 40s would only fit at the front).

Its replacement (Sonder Camino) is just better for me. Far lighter, more comfy, more versatile. NB I haven’t ridden any other CdF builds/models but I think there are probably better options than a CdF in 2021.

Depends on how you build them, I have a old, Q/R and straight steerer 931 CDF with the upgraded genesis carbon fork which takes 700x40's, last year I went full gravel on it, GRX, carbon hoops, flared bars etc, weighs 10.48 kg fully kitted and far from clean, it flys along.

It'll never be as light as a carbon jobbie but they're tough as old boots and kinda timeless, they just work.

My mate has three of them to me they look to retro compared to my Checkpoint/Boone and as said above heavy and under spec for the money what every you fancy.

Had a 2016 for the last three years.Put a CF fork on it,makes a difference! Still got original heavy wheelset on it.
I shouldn't like it but I do!
It's weighty but never really notice except on steep climbs.
Mines a keeper even though I've got more expensive stuff.

I ended up with a much lighter alu frame, full carbon fork, bolt through, two groupsets up and £200 less…

That's exactly what I was looking at. The fact that no one has yet suggested the drop in component choice is remotely made up for elsewhere will push it to the bottom of the choice pile. Let's hope the Ragley Trig comes in stock then!

I like mine, does everything well but nothing spectacularly apart from carrying a load. It's been relegated to commuter with rack and full guards. It's on 32c byways and eats miles but it's not fast.

I have one. Before I built it I weighed the forks, they were heavier than a set of 170mm lyrics! The issue is the fork has a 1 inch steerer so the only carbon fork you can upgrade to costs 350 quid.

I quite like mine, used it as a winter bike but it's bloody heavy and not particularly fast. I replaced it with a defy for winter duties, so much better. I also have a dedicated gravel bike which is far better for off road duties.

Still got the genesis though, it's a nice bike to ride when you are happy to just cruise along at a leisurely pace

It does seem like there are a lot of choices which are as good or better for similar money. The Sonder Santiago, Cotic Escapade, The Light Blue Darwin, Fearless Vulture (or its replacement). Etc. Most seem to have a better feel, similar components. Couple are reynolds 725 too.

More of a plodder than a racer IME.

I had a CdF (2011, I think). Really didn't rate it, even after replacing the fork with a carbon one.

Pretty heavy, none of the fun ride characteristics of steel.

The fact they've stuck to a straight steerer would put me off - it's annoying to find decent carbon forks.

Back in 2016 I bought a CDF 20 while working in a bike shop. Obviously I got it at a discounted price but wouldn't ever pay full price for one as I think there not great value for money. I'm a steel fanboi and have owned many steel gravel/CX frames over the years and the CDF was the dullest steel frame I've ever ridden. Also as others have said the steel fork weighs a ton.

I have one, thought it was great when I got it as hadn't had anything other than mountain bikes for 20 years and I wanted something for all day road rides with the odd bridleway or track shortcut. I then realised I was on the road all the time so I bought a Defy. I couldn't believe the difference, faster lighter which go without saying but so much more comfortable and nicer to ride. My CdF became a ride into town bike and now is permanently on the turbo trainer. I'd say for anything you'd ever want to do on a bike there is something far better and probably for less money

Mine was only about 3 months old when I bought it and had done no more than 100 miles or so and at £500 less than new was a bargain so I don't feel I wasted any money on it.

So what are the equivalent steel bikes that are more lively than the CdF ? As far as weight, I think it’s probably only a matter of 100’s of grams in weight between different steel frames.

My CdF feels pretty lively but it is the 853 steel model, which was on sale.

My mate has the 853 day one alfine.
It’s beautiful, eats miles, carries a load with ease and is, without doubt, an object of desire.
But, it certainly is not light.
When he got it, at around the same time i got a charge filter hi. (Tange prestige fr/forks)
The charge was lighter, and about half the price.
However, i think that’s missing the point somewhat, the genesis handles much better when loaded, whereas the charge would become distinctly noodly when loaded for a camping trip.
I think if you compare the CDF and variants with traditional road bikes you’ll be disappointed, they fare rather better when compared to bikes which are designed to carry moderate/big loads.
Horses for courses innit.

Why not get the CDA? Cheaper and lighter

Spa Elan 725? https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/road-bikes/spa-cycles-elan-725-review/

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s223p3553/SPA-CYCLES-Elan-725-%28105-11-Speed-Hydraulic%29

I’ve owned a few Genesis bikes and one traditional 531 tourer. I still ride the tourer more. It makes me think that Genesis bikes are overpriced and overbuilt (a modern malady). The old 531 hand-built tourer just rides way better. Roughstuff, rando, proper touring, even audax(y). Slight shame about the rim-brakes but with decent pads they turned out not to be not nearly the deal-killer, as the ride outshines in all else but the tyre-clearance dept. A keeper but I miss the Vagabond just for rowdiness. Still seeking the perfect modern tradeoff.

For a disc-braked gravel/tourer I’d be giving that Spa a good look.

They also do a F&F option for £465

The issue is the fork has a 1 inch steerer so the only carbon fork you can upgrade to costs 350 quid.

Why am I doubting this? Typo?

Certainly seems to be a straight steerer, not sure if it's 1". Either way it's another minus for me.
https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/genesis-croix-de-fer-20-vargn21040

Spa Elan 725?

Don't think they do C2W?

Why not get the CDA? Cheaper and lighter

Stock? Only considering a CDF because I've found a couple in my size.

So what are the equivalent steel bikes that are more lively than the CdF

No idea but if I'm buying a bike where I'm paying a premium for the frame, which I assume is the case with the CDF, I want it to be better than the higher spec competition or at least have something else (finish, features, weight....) that makes the compromise on spec worth it. Seems from the owners on here that it doesn't.

I'm quite lucky with gravel/adventure bikes at the moment as I have very little to compare against so probably wouldn't really notice a dull frame. That makes it easy for me to chose and not worry about small details but if I'm paying a premium for low spec I'd expect something within the package to make up the difference.

I'm a huge Orange fan, have been for 30 years but looking at their RX9 that's 2k+ and comes with Apex and a aluminium frame, to me even if the frame is better than say a Vitus Substance, it isn't going on for 1k better. Feels like Genesis fall in to this bracket.

It won’t be 1”
It will be 1 1/8”
There’s hardly been a 1” steerer made for decades.

Mrs t-r has had a few genisis over the years.

She likes them because the retro geometry and weight are stable and in line with her expectations of a bike.

Most importantly for her.... Their price points fall in line with the cycle to work scheme.

She still has a Croix de tour and a day one Alfine.

Heavy , Dull and lifeless is how I'd describe them.

Anyone saying otherwise hasn't had a zingy (pre CEN) steel bike before I'd bet.

Both have 1 1/8th steerers and carbon forks for it are easy to find but I'd say the forks are the least of its worries. Sjs do some nice looking ones for 120 quid.

I really wanted a vagabond till I picked one up in the flesh. .....much like I always wanted a surly cross check till I did the same.

My CdFs have done a lot of different types of rides; dirty revier 200, three peaks CX, winter road centuries, transport to the gym and had a kids seat on the back. Jack of all trades, master of none stuff.

They’re stable, predictable mile munchers with plenty of mounting points for touring. If you want fast and engaging handling then you’re looking at the wrong bike.

I obviously like them though, as my current one is the 853 model with GRX800.

Early CdF was relatively stiff tubes as it was meant for panniers as well as lanes and byway riding, was only 9-6-9 on the DT of the 520 version though, 8-5-8 on the top tube. Tube ODs and the 71.5 HTA don't add up to a zinger though - not compared to my 'old school' bike with slimmer tubes anyway. But that's a wobbler with bags on it.

not compared to my ‘old school’ bike with slimmer tubes anyway. But that’s a wobbler with bags on it.

This. I'm not saying the croix de tour is a bad bike by any stretch. It was the right bike for our ride across British Columbia and down the Rockies fully loaded. My road rat would have been utterly shite at it...... Like riding a rubber band when loaded.....

I had a singlespeed day-one for years and thought a Croix de fee would be pretty much the same but it was a lifeless lump in comparison. I still kept it for 5 years as it was so versatile and great for commuting on.

I now have a Trek Crockett with GRX groupset and love it (despite being a whole less versatile) as it is so much fun to ride.

I also have a Steel Stooge and Steel Ritchey road logic 2 which are really fun to ride and not particularly light either. So it goes to show you can make a steel a frame fun to ride post CEN standards.

Also my Croix de fer felt great with panniers on. I did a mini tour a few years ago up the north of Scotland and with the bike fully loaded weighed 35kg. It handled like a dream.

Always fancied a Surly as they look great plus can take big tyres along with lots of bags etc. But they're too agricultural for me.

I had a singlespeed day-one for years and thought a Croix de fee would be pretty much the same but it was a lifeless lump in comparison.

Not at all saying I disagree or you're wrong here, just interested (and bear in mind I don't know if the CdF has changed tube spec much over the years). The Day One and CdF always used pretty much the same tubes and geometry. Wonder where the difference in feel is coming from? All up weight maybe.

Probably the weight of the drivetrain plus a few other minor differences which all add up.

From what I read at the time, the Day-one (2008 ish) had a stiffer downtube to cope with the twisting forces from riding out the saddle, might just have been marketing. Also my Day-one had slimmer forks and had canti brakes.

didnthurt

Full Member

Always fancied a Surly as they look great plus can take big tyres along with lots of bags etc. But they’re too agricultural for me.

They're really not. Don't believe the marketing bollocks.
If you have a close look at the frames they have had an extraordinary amount of thought put into them. The quality of the finishing, inside the tubes, the welding, the geometry, tube sizing etc is just lovely.
None of the tubes are bog standard. They've all been very carefully thought through.

Sorry, but I'm not a fan of the CdF, at least in the smaller sizes.
The Spa mentioned above is an infinitely better frame.
The designer posts regularly on the CTC forum (now Cycling Today) and having ridden quite a few Spas designed by him I can confirm that they are genuinely inspirational.

WRT the 853 and 725 frames. Only the TT and DT are higher grade, the rest is standard.

From what I read at the time, the Day-one (2008 ish) had a stiffer downtube to cope with the twisting forces from riding out the saddle

They were the same tube spec, likely still are. 34.9 OD Vs the 31.8 that many inc Surly and Spa mentioned above use.

Early CdF was relatively stiff tubes as it was meant for panniers as well as lanes and byway riding,

This is where Genesis confuses me. The TdF is built for loaded touring. The CdF is built for???

I know it predates the gravel/downcountry/upcountry etc trend but it seems neither fish nor foul.

I rode a Masi Giramindo that I borrowed for a while. It was designed for loaded touring so the steering was a bit odd when unloaded and it certainly wasn't light but I wouldn't have described it as dull or lifeless. The Escapade is praised for it's lively feel in reviews but seems designed to accept some load. I'm guessing it is not simply geo and tube diameter/butting.

This is where Genesis confuses me. The TdF is built for loaded touring. The CdF is built for???

Marketing to N+1 and the people who genuinely believe that 0.5* steeper head angle or last year's 97.2% stiffness would ruin the ride and slow them down...

Tdf is a cdf with a few more bosses and a triple. It makes a good tourer if your not just looking for something to ride to work on and look like you might do some touring one day.

Where as the cdf is all about appealing to the trendies who need the single who need the posh disks etc

For all the comments about the CDF being a bit portly and 'dead' to ride.

One of the reasons they're so chunky is that Genesis build them to pass the MTB CEN test standard, hence why they're not the lightest but also why, despite the huge numbers of them out there, you very rarely hear of one failing.

If, like me, you're a gentleman of the larger persuasion this is rather comforting as you're hooning about off road with full bikepacking kit.

Horses for courses though, I can see how a lighter rider may not get on with one.

Tdf is a cdf with a few more bosses and a triple.

To be fair, the TdF does have slightly different geo. The head and seat angles are the same, which is odd but the stack is different, the TdF has longer chainstays etc.

If you want a bargain gravel bike. The Marin Nicasio in one of it's guides is very affordable and seems to hit the fin to ride and nice feel boxes. Given what it goes for, replacing any under-specced components won't hurt much.

This is where Genesis confuses me. The TdF is built for loaded touring. The CdF is built for???

I know it predates the gravel/downcountry/upcountry etc trend but it seems neither fish nor foul.

The CdF was neither fish nor fowl in the way many gravel bikes still are, I suppose. Plus there wasn't a TdF back then.

I've had mine since 2013 (it's the dark grey one). Built it from a frame with mavic/hope wheels and, originally, a 105 double groupset. Changed it last year to 1 x 11 and fitted flat carbon bars with a slightly longer stem (120mm). I weigh 3/5ths of **** all and I think it rides lovely and smoothly on 35mm tyres. So there. It's my only road bike, gets used fairly regularly on the crappy tarmac round here and the occasional gentle off road foray. I love it. Can't think of any reason to change.

The CdF was neither fish nor fowl in the way many gravel bikes still are, I suppose.

Fair enough. The Ribble CGR 725 is a very similar bike, but reviews suggest it's a much nicer ride. I'd have one if the frames ever went on sale but it's a bit spendy at full price.

Plus there wasn’t a TdF back then.

True. Although when they introduced it they could have moved the CdF more towards a gravel/day out/towpath type thing.

I weigh 3/5ths of **** all and I think it rides lovely and smoothly on 35mm tyres.

That's the other side. Seems owners are at one of 2 extremes. I'd love to know what makes it so love/hate

This is the Day One I had

https://road.cc/content/review/11847-genesis-day-one-cross

And this is the Croix de fer I had

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/296284/products/genesis-2015-croix-de-fer-10-cyclocross-adventure-bike.aspx

I must admit the 853 in blue is beautiful IMO

https://www.balfesbikes.co.uk/dpt/pgr/frame-gn-20-croix-de-fer-853-frameset__7237

My Croix de fer was like a Volvo estate. Just brilliant at just bimbling along, easy handling and can carry a shed load of stuff plus will put up with a load of abuse without complaint.

My Trek Crockett that replaced it is more like a 2 seater sports car. Not as practical, more fragile but so much more fun to be aboard.

Strangely their geometries aren't a million miles apart.

My old Croix de fer was the best "bike" I ever owned. It never missed a beat but it dictated the pace. I'm honest about the fact that my bikes are toys or if I'm being generous, gym equipment so I want fun toys not functional toys.

I reckon if every person on here who loves their Croix rode my Richey Logic (or any other quality steel frame) then they'd never look at their Croix the same again.

Bit like comparing the old On-one Inbred to a Cotic Soul (old school 26" ones). Nothing wrong the Inbred but the Soul was/is in a different class.

The CdF 10 is just regular cromo, isn't it? Don't know if that makes a difference to the feel, or how much. Or if the 853 feels better than the 725, come to that. The CdF do some nice colours, you've got to give them that.

@didnthurt
You’re probably correct, but i reckon it could just as easily work the other way if you were to ride your bike back to back with a cdf, but they were both fully loaded.
It’s all about what you’re used to.

They’re really not. Don’t believe the marketing bollocks.
If you have a close look at the frames they have had an extraordinary amount of thought put into them. The quality of the finishing, inside the tubes, the welding, the geometry, tube sizing etc is just lovely.
None of the tubes are bog standard. They’ve all been very carefully thought through.

Maybe so but they still break, saw a belter the other day, cracked right across the seat tube and down tube via the BB. For the money (we pay) they ain't all that.