[Closed] General gravel /bike packing luggage question...

Rattle, rattle, rattle, rattle, snap

Weight.

Width. Lots of trails I use are too narrow for panniers - rocks, heather, bushes are all a problem.

Reliability. Rough terrain with loaded panniers will take its toll on the rack.

Choice. Bags can be strapped to almost any bike, including full suspension, so there is a larger choice of frames available.

I sometimes still use panniers for road touring as these issues don't apply.

All of the above.

Plus ...

They encourage you to take less sh1t 👍

Panniers and racks do have a place for bikepacking in extreme climates such as the arctic in winter where you need to take bulky kit - there's no way a -30c rated bag can be anything but - and lots of supplies. A couple of years ago @dovebiker did the Rovaniemi 300 where you have to (or did, the rules changed last year) take everything with you for the five days or so of the race.

I'm literally just back in from a short test run of my croix de fer with Ortlieb panniers which I use for road missions but this time I fitted 38mm gravel tyres and hit some off road. I'd cable tied a tiny bit of foam to a point where the panniers rattled on the rack and was pleasantly surprised by how quiet the setup was. Having the weight low down felt pretty nice too.
I do love the space panniers supply as I like taking a kettle and a drip filter so I can make proper coffee plus I like a few clothing options. I also have a cheap, rather bulky sleeping bag.
I'm very new to this branch of the hobby though so would love to hear from the more seasoned members on here. Obviously I would use bike bags on a proper mtb if I was heading to rougher areas but for mixed road, gravel and a bit of singletrack then I do like how my CDF with Jones bars just has everything to hand and is super comfortable. I can just throw a bunch of stuff in the panniers and go. No need to carefully pack micro kit

 would love to hear from the more seasoned members on here

I'm sure they don't mind me saying so but dovebiker, whitestone and I all fall into the "seasoned" category 🙂

I think I fall into the "pickled" category 😊

Ultimately it's what works for you; what you are willing to try; willing to swap for lighter, less bulky kit (at a cost of course); willing to leave behind. There's no one right way to do things, it's rare I take the same setup/kit each time, and what I thought at the time was a compact lightweight summer setup is heavier and bulkier than what I'd now take in winter.

It's a process, a never ending one.

After posting I then looked at the names of who had already replied and realised the 'seasoned members' were already in attendance 🙂
Whilst you're here can I ask you where you'd carry water on a full suss bike with only one bottle mount? So far I've come up with cages on the fork legs or bottles/bladder in a backpack.

Don't dismiss backpacks.

It’s a process, a never ending one.

^ This

Don’t dismiss backpacks.

(IME) Rack-packs or seat-packs (for instance) here are superior in every way. Let the bike carry the luggage while you sweat less. Not to mention saving your gooch from being mashed down onto the seat by extra weight. The ability to be free of the rucksack is a fundamental benefit when travelling by bicycle (small hydropacks excluded, of course)

For porteur-weight gravelly fetch-and-carry trips during these weirdtimes I found out this old Agu expandable rack-pack, and then remembered that I’ve used it for approx 20 years on all kinds of terrain. It’s perfect for randonneur-type overnighters, with two small fold-down panniers if required. Has a bungee-net on top. Hugely handy. Need to refresh the bungee-cord it’s so old. Shame they are out of fashion of late (Agu no longer make these) but I’ll just repair this it ever breaks or wears. Still have the rain-cover for it, miraculously.

Plan to pair it with a large bar-bag and possibly a frame bag. Fork-mount cargo-cages are an option if more space needed.

A seat-pack option of similar volume would drop half a kilo or more. The tradeoff would be faffbother, sway and a higher load-position (not ideal)

Swings and roundabouts, fun either way. But a loaded 16l rucksack will beat you up at some point.

A money-saving tip is to buy sturdy-yet-economical ‘water-resistant’ bike-packing gear (as opposed to expensive watertight gear) and then DIY upgrade it by applying a home-brew silicone seal. Should be good enough for most applications except for electronics which can be first sealed in their own drybags/ziplok bags before stowing.

I was suggesting a backpack for water carrying duties (in reply to the preceding post).

However, they do also have a role when conditions are rough enough that the bike will have to be carried or lifted as they make the bike much easier to handle. The trick here is to invest as much as possible in the lightest, most compact kit so that it can be carried without any problems. I used this option on a couple of trips last year (including my Cairngorms 300) and had planned to do so again this year for a couple of particular routes, especially where the riding fun would be enhanced by an unloaded/lightly loaded bike. Of course, that's straying away from the OP's original question as these are routes where a gravel bike wouldn't be an option anyway.

I was firmly in the doubters camp, a comitted tourist, rack, panniers, mudguards, barbag.

I've now tried the minimalist bikepacker option and it's just as much fun, but different.

For porteur-randonneur-weight

👍🏼

Thanks for your replies and hope the OP got some useful information too.
All winter I used the Ortlieb large trunk bag on top of my rack. It was a brilliant way to carry spare clothes, food and a thermos. Makes the bike shimmy though due to it's position whereas the low mounted side panniers usually eliminate this.
I'm enjoying the process of learning about it all. Was a dedicated racer for years but am at a point in my life now where I needed something new (I still love xc and cx racing but I don't care much about results anymore and thus struggle to force myself to train like I used to).
I'm loving how the distance I can ride from my house has increased with the right setup and mindset. Saves driving to ride too. I hate getting stuck in a traffic jam on the way home from a morning ride. Spoils the day somewhat.

Weight.

And aero.

I reckon that's more significant than the weight sometimes.

Panniers have their advantages too. They're more convenient, making it easier to access luggage and can be removed in seconds.

Whilst you’re here can I ask you where you’d carry water on a full suss bike with only one bottle mount? So far I’ve come up with cages on the fork legs or bottles/bladder in a backpack.

Cages + water bottles on the fork legs will affect the bike's handling a lot. But it is an option to pack lighter and bulky stuff there while making room elsewhere for water.

Three answers to this really.

1. For the UK and other areas where water is in plentiful supply but maybe of dubious quality I'd take a water filter like the MSR Trailshot or the Sawyer filters.

2. If your frame is metal then consider fitting Rivnuts on the downtube to add extra bottle mounts. Do not do this on carbon frames!

3. For trips where you might be two or three days between any water source then bladder in frame bag and/or backback. Something like this somewhat extreme example: https://bikepacking.com/routes/ruta-seis-miles-sur/ from which:

The route is very remote: you need to be able to carry 12 days food, cooking fuel and one and half days of water, simultaneously.

I'd still take the water filter.

Bikepacking.com also do an annual "rigs of the tour divide" feature which might give you ideas.

@butcher - a harness/dry bag system is almost as quick to mount/unmount as panniers but is definitely more hassle to get to something mid-ride. The latter point is down to how you pack and what you might expect to occur during the day's ride - I'll strap a waterproof top under the harness straps but outside the dry bag for instance. I do have rack and panniers, I've just not used them for a long while.

As ever there's a lot of info over on Bearbones, both in the forums and in the blog/review section and there's just as much difference of opinion as there is in this thread.

Intrigued by the Trek 1120 holsters, but unwilling to pay for items like the Porcelain Rocket microwave panniers (if I could even find them), I'm thinking of knocking up drybag holsters of my own using some HDPE sheeting, fabric and webbing.

a harness/dry bag system is almost as quick to mount/unmount as panniers but is definitely more hassle to get to something mid-ride.

This may be the case and of course it depends on requirements, but generally people will have their luggage distributed across several bags all using different fastening systems.

In contrast, my Ortlieb panniers, I just lift the carrying handle and walk off with them (that could be a disadvantage, depending on how you look at it!)

Pros and cons to each.

I personally prefer to ride with bikepacking bags. But I still often use panniers just because it's easier and requires less thought. A good bikepacking setup is something you perfect through experience.

Its very much a horses for courses thing.

If you can manage to travel very light then obviously backpacking bags can be best as you do not need the capacity of anything more. By the time you are strapping bulky stuff to your fork legs and handlebars then IMO you are better off with a different solution.

My preference ( and remember its two folks kit) is a trailer - it adds weight but the handling and aero is much better than panniers solution. We also tend to go out for multiple days without resupply so need to carry more food and a greater reserve of dry clothes.

For me stuff hanging off the steering so ruins the handling as to ruin the ride - others will differ.

Water I just take from streams. Carrying enough water for a couple of days is hugely heavy.

Thanks guys. I'd forgotten about the water filter option. Do you think one 750ml bottle and a filter would be enough reserve for riding in Wales and Scotland? My other favourite place is the South Downs Way which can be done on one bottle due to the taps.

Racks can work well for bikepacking, although they do add weight and potential failure points to the system. For dirt road touring and less technical riding, I think racks and Carradice style saddlebags are fantastic, much more user friendly than my bikepacking bags. They can also help shorter riders who don't have adequate tyre clearance for soft bags. Panniers mostly tend to fail because of the mounting hardware, but as said previously, they are really useful for snow/winter trips where more space is needed and the riding is more mellow. Here's a picture of my bike setup for a 4 day trip last year, was absolutely perfect for the moderate terrain I was on.

There's no one system that is perfect for everything, best thing is to experiment and find what works for your needs.

rollindoughnut

Personally I never have used a filter. One 750 ml bottle is a bit small IMO but it depends on your route and where you are camping.

I've been using a drybag bungeed to a rack just because that was kit I had already. It's worked very well for trips up to a week. I have a bikepacking style bar bag (Salsa Anything) and supplement that with a wee rucksack. This gives me plenty of capacity for multiple overnights including the hill running kit I often like to take to split up the cycling days.

Limitations of the rack/bungeed dry bag are that it's probably heavier, difficult to get in and out of during the day, it can rub if not done right and fragile items could get crushed by the bungees. However, it's solid, cheap and offers plenty of capacity so I haven't seen the need to change to more specific kit as yet.

@tjagain - I vary with use of a filter - Scottish Highlands above habitation and/or out of enclosed land then I won't bother. In the Peak or other built up areas then I will.

Don't know about other countries but in France every cemetery has to have potable water available - useful to know.

@rollingdoughnut - I'm fine with 750ml in Scotland and Wales, if I'm racing then I'll make do with 500ml. One thing you can do is to take a collapsible bladder rolled up in one of your bags if you need extra capacity at camp. I did the HT550 over five days with a 750ml bottle and never ran out, I think I used the filter twice.

@montgomery - bikepacking.com had a guide on making your own bags - https://bikepacking.com/gear/make-stuff-sack/ get a Gorilla cage or Salsa Anything Cage and make your own to fit.

I'd use Ortlieb PD350 drybags, 7 or 10 litres; it'd be the holsters I would need - leave the holsters on the rack, just drop the drybags in. With the right attachment method it'd eliminate rattling, bags popping off, etc, but also reduce or eliminate rub spots on the bags. No rush, just mulling it over.

Like this.

Also, in reply to OP, you can overthink this stuff. I did an off-road LEJOG with a drybag bungeed to a rear rack. It was what I already had, and it worked fine.

Great advice fellas. Thanks.

Ive got a trailer, panniers and bikepacking bags. As others have already said they all have their niche where they work better than the alternatives.

I would agree with Scottroutes though, a backpack isn't as evil as some people make out. Especially off-road where it can lighten the bike and make the riding easier. Pushing a heavy bike up a hill is still less comfortable than manging to ride it up and not stall on a step because the front wheel wouldnt lift.