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I've just spent an hour in the dark wrestling with the awful dropper post cable routing on my Vitus Escarpe to try and sort the reluctant to return dropper post cable, only now to be left with a lever and cable that's even stiffer than before... 🙁 The cable routing on the frame is bloody terrible - it enters the downtube underneath where it has to make a 60 degree turn in the space of about 3 inches, before passing directly past the main swingarm/chainstay pivot and finally through 2 cable ties to stop it rubbing on the shock. At the weekend on a 28 mile ride and 13 miles in the Surrey Hills it worked perfectly, yet today on the 4 miles to and from work the lever wouldn't return and the post would get stuck down. New outer time, the inner is less than 2 months old and the outer less than a year old.
It got me thinking... in this day and age where a large proportion of devices are wireless (computers, phones, earphones, heartrate monitors, gps computers, and so on..) and pretty much anything that isn't, is either electronic or hydraulic, why the hell are mountain bikes still using the same gear cables for gears and dropper posts that they've been using since their invention in the late 1970's???
They stretch, get muddy and stiff, have to be routed through impossible angles that make them stretch more and get stiffer faster, they snap, fray, and require partial disassembly of a bike to remove a single component. For bikes that in the UK will spend about half their lift covered in some sort of mud, they're severely flawed. They are however, cheap, easy to make and simple to design components for.
SRAM had a go at making a better dropper post with the reverb but that just caused more issues, haha - and of course hydraulic shifting has been done before, and failed. Lets leave hydraulics where they should be, that's brakes and only brakes. But, it's 2019 and with today's electronics, how hard is it for a few companies to release proper electronic/wireless shifting and dropper posts for mountain bikes?
SRAM - you've teased us with pictures of Eagle eTap and the wireless reverb, just bloody release the things!!! I'll buy them!
Fox - Live valve could be great, but be honest - about 5 people will buy it. How about a Factory electronic dropper post? I've buy that!!
I fancy building a lightweight Ti hardtail in the next year or so and would love to be able to swap between a carbon seatpost for xc or commuting along with a 1300g wheelset with fast rollng xc tyres, then plop in a dropper post and burly wheelset with 2.6" tyres for the weekend rides, however my only option at the moment which would let me do that and not wast 30 minutes of my day every single time I want to swap posts, is a Magura Vyron... God help me.
SRAM, Shimano, FOX - how about releasing some new kit that takes mountain biking into the current age? 40 years of gear cables is long enough for me.
/rant 😀
My original Vyron was the second best dropper I've ever had (and I've tried a few!). The newer version is meant to be quicker to react too apparently.
Shimano have done Di2 for ages, but it's always been expensive unless bought in sales. The thing is, for every person wanting batteries and wireless everything, there will be 3 Luddites wanting the exact opposite 🙂
I'd like reliable wireless gears and I would certainly buy another Vyron if I needed another dropper!
Di2 is great on road bikes, but I'm not sold for mountain bikes - if a branch catches a gear cable it's likely the branch will break, but I'd be worried the Di2 cable would break on a mountain bike. Then there's the issue of storing the batteries and the wiring which few bikes or parts are compatible with.
Nothing wrong with people wanting to stick with cables either, but at least give us a decent alternative!
Still have and use my Vyron and like it. No messing, just works.
That's good to hear about the Vyron, shame the remote isn't a little better designed - but it's an option until SRAM/FOX get of their arses and release something decent.
I knew someone who ran XT Di2 with no issues and he was relentless with biking stuff. I can't remember the last time anything got caught on branches to be fair 🙂
The newer Vyrons come with a paddle that sits over the awkward button now. You can even buy it as a separate add on for the older one 🙂
Cables just work - KISS
Your issue is not the cable - its the routing. I cannot remember when I last had to adjust or replace a gear cable. I am careful about maintenance tho and have middleburn oilers fitted to all cables.
Yeah I'll admit gear cables for shifting are generally fine apart from some adjustment, it's the convoluted dropper routing that's the issue.
The cable has to go from under the plastic downtube protector, past the pivot and shock to go up the seat tube, which itself is completely open so the bottom of the dropper gets covered in crap too.
I'd still buy a proper wireless shifting solution if there was one available though!
I know I’m in a minority (possibly of one!) but none of the cable operated posts I’ve tried are a patch on a well maintained properly bled reverb. I’ve got 3 on different bikes at the moment and with the exception of an occasional bleed (say once every 12 months) they’ve all been mint. Smooth operation and a super satisfying ‘thunk’ when they hit full extension...
Di2 is great on the mtb.
No worries with cables getting gunked up or crappy routing creating drag, consistent shifting across the whole cassette, the ability to set single push multi shifts. I’ve also found it much better in muddy conditions as the shift quality just doesn’t degrade. If you’ve got internal routing it’s easy to install with the battery in the down tube. I’ll be converting my second bike this year as I have the feel of the ‘standard’ setup on it compared to the Di2 on my xc bike.
Do a search for archer d1x. I nearly dropped the funds on one a few weeks ago. Wireless gear shifting for any bike.
How about time spent (charging, remembering cables, app settings, software updates) + maintenance Vs maintenance time spent with a mechanical system annually?
That’s good to hear about the Vyron, shame the remote isn’t a little better designed – but it’s an option until SRAM/FOX get of their arses and release something decent
It's better, you fit a cover on it and it's single push jobbie. Much much better and you can't 'miss' like with the stock item.
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/magura-vyron-remote-cap/rp-prod161699?mx=a
How about time spent (charging, remembering cables, app settings, software updates) + maintenance Vs maintenance time spent with a mechanical system annually
I charge mine about 3 times a year, it's a standard USB mini cable. It doesn't get updates etc.. or settings in anything. You press the button it goes up and down.
I hardly ever charge my vyron. The button cover makes it much easier but not quite as good as a paddle. For my big bike I've swapped to a fox transfer for speed of dropping in technical situations. However on my other bike (which is used for more XC and on trails I know) the vyron is ace. Also really quick to swap out for a fixed post when bike packing.
Cables are simple, functional, almost maintenance free.. and most of all - cheap.
Nothing else comes close, which is why they've lasted so long.
Just sounds like a Reverb (or Vyron) would be better on the Vitus.
Damn I knew I shoulda got a Vyron now you guys are talking the true merits of this post as opposed to other thread on them.
I just stumped up for a PNW Loam lever mates to a DVO dropper.
I would have liked the option of no cables and simplicity of the Vyron. Not sure how well it would cope with my Lardy ass though!
why the hell are mountain bikes still using the same gear cables for gears and dropper posts that they’ve been using since their invention in the late 1970’s???
SRAM had a go at making a better dropper post with the reverb but that just caused more issues, haha – and of course hydraulic shifting has been done before, and failed.
Alternative would be a fixed cable at the collar like the KS lev.
Cables don't stretch in any meaningful way, btw. Typically what happens is the outer, if not cut square, or if used with soft plastic end caps, goes out of shape, impinging on the inner, and causing friction 😉
As above your problem is the routing, not the cable per-se. Cables have been around since pretty much the dawn of cycling, they haven't changed significantly because they work.
The problem is manufacturers and their designs. In an attempt to find the next big thing we were given internal routing, and with the sycophantic collusion of the bike press it has caught on, "clean look" anyone?
Back in the day, good cable routing was a sign of a well designed bike, that would work properly. Now, we just seem to want them to look pretty.
Ditch your internal routing and zip tie a full-length outer to the frame, and your problem will be gone.
APF
I have 2 Fox Transfer posts. 1 is internally routed the other external with the cable entry at the collar. The posts themselves are faultless and the cabling on the external one has been faultless as well. The cabling on the internal one is a bit naff though. The lever feel is much worse and I have had to change the cables twice which is a really faffy job. Iv also had to upgrade to a nicer lever with a bearing - something that hasn't been necessary on the external dropper. If the post gets stuck mid ride you are stuffed with the internal routed post. With the external one I have access to mechanism and could raise and lower it manually if the cable failed (which hasn't been necessary).
With the protection of the seat tube, it seems to me that an electronically activated dropper would be the least vulnerable to damage on a MTB compared to DI2 shifting etc. A simple transmitter at the bars and a small motor on the foot of the dropper post and bobs your uncle?
I have 2 Fox Transfer posts...The cabling on the internal one is a bit naff though. The lever feel is much worse and I have had to change the cables twice which is a really faffy job
That's odd. Again, must be a routing issue - I've not had any trouble with mine. sliding the post in and pulling the outer through the frame needs a 2nd person but it's less quicker and less messy that bleeding a reverb. I've broken two levers with my knee but the Trek lever is a third of the price of the Fox one and (IMO) better.
Typically what happens is the outer, if not cut square, or if used with soft plastic end caps, goes out of shape, impinging on the inner, and causing friction
This, all my cable issues in the last year have been down to outers getting caught/mashed in crashes or transportation.
Two people I know with Vyron's have both had terminal issues, one inside warranty period, replaced and then sold. The other outside warranty period, and will cost a bomb to fix - he is now borrowing my Ascend XL and prefers that.
Prefer the Transfer and Ascend XL over the Reverbs I had previously (though we'll see how committed I am to that when the Transfer needs a service).
I struggle with long sentences!
But yep it's been done with leccy and hyraulics already if bowden cables confuzzle you just use the alternative solutions (which generally cost more and have their own issues no doubt)...
Looks like routing the cable better on that bike wouldn't be difficult.
Two people I know with Vyron’s have both had terminal issues, one inside warranty period, replaced and then sol
7,000 people with Reverbs i know had terminal issues too.
You know 7000 people? Not only that but 7000 people with broked Reverbs!! Facebook fwends is my guess! 😆
You know 7000 people? Not only that but 7000 people with broked Reverbs!! Facebook fwends is my guess! 😆
I used to be a reverb evangelist, then mine died too (about 3 months after I stopped mollycoddling it, I used to take it off when the trails were muddy).
A more accurate supposition would be does anyone know of anyone who rides a lot in all weathers who hasn't killed their reverb? For a £180 (in the sales) bit of kit, that does the same job as a £10 part, only adjustably, they really should be a bit better!
I like my Gravity Dropper.
If it stops working due to mud or whatever, it takes about 2 mins to fix with a multitool and a spray of WD40
So, new outer and inner and re routed the cable for the dropper, much less of an angle now and still looks pretty neat.
It's not touching any of the pivots or anything either, unlike the original routing!
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For a £180 (in the sales) bit of kit, that does the same job as a £10 part, only adjustably, they really should be a bit better!
That's a bit like saying that your £400 Exposure light does the same job as a 100W bulb from B&Q
Reverbs are still unreliable. They just carry on because they don't want to lose face, a kind of engineering arrogance. They will eventually switch to cable, no doubt in my mind. To go back to the thread, cable are still being used as they haven't found anything better overall. Canyon have innovated with the current Spectral with semi integrated cable routing which would be a good solution to the OPs predicament. Simple, cheap, practical.
Yeah I'm a big fan of the spectral solution, it's internal routing without the drawbacks and is a downtube protector.
I have to say I prefer internal routing over external/mixed dropper routing.
So, the saga continues...
Went for a ride today, the new routing was working well for a while, until I pressed the lever and it went floppy. Bugger, cable has pulled out at the lever end, or so I thought. It had actually pulled out at the dropper end, which has a barrel nipple fixed by an allen screw. I'd done it up tight enough, or so I thought! Seeing as my seatpost is hollow and it had fallen out of the post, there was zero chance of me finding it. Completed the ride sans dropper, and stopped on the way back to pick up a brake cable and outer as these have the fixed barrel nipples.
But, the brake internal won't fit into the gear outer as its a fraction bigger, so I'll need to redo the outer routing again. Then I checked whether the barrel nipple will fit into the brand X dropper mechanism... Which of course it doesn't!!! I'll need to take off a mm or 2 of metal on the nipple for it to fit.
Sigh. I hate cables.
What's the best deal on a magura vyron dropper? 🙂
Rhetorical question?
Bout £300 givus or takeus away last time I looked.
Same as my DVO/PNW Loam lever setup. Just the DVO has a nifty feature of a cool spring to act as a return if lack of air in the chamber. Plus the air valve exterior is behind the saddle clamp area for easy access. 👍👍
In retrospect YES I could have got a Vyron but reckon I would struggle with remote and yes at least it would be easier by a country ass mile to get hold of one plus without the logistical ‘mare of cable routing.
GET ONE and give some feedback on how good they are?
Oh & yeah you have my sympathy on mid ride dropper fail. = not fair ☹️
STOP!
Put the tools down! and take it to a bike shop. It's really similar routing to my E-Sommet only your Escarpe is far less complicated. When when done properly it's actually smooth AF. It sounds to me like you've possibly not allowed the outer cable to slide in the cable guides as you've inserted the post or you're tightening the zipties too tight. that 60deg bend in the cable routing isn't an issue in the slightest.
The fact you didn't even know cable inners and outers come in different diameters means you're giong to **** it up yet again and be back here moaning like it's someone other than your own fault.
Sympathy? if a dropper post fails mid ride. really? It's a first world problem. Just get on with the ride with the saddle in whatever position it happens to be stuck in and stop moaning.
There's no issue with the cable routing, it was working perfectly until the cable pulled out of the barrel nut.
Luckily it was a fairly easy ride so I didn't really need the dropper.
Still, it's annoying that the barrel nut is very slightly smaller than a brake cable barrel nipple which has a fixed nipple and can't pull out. Other posts use cables with fixed nipples, forcing the use of a barrel nut which has to clamp onto a few mm of cable is a flawed design in my eyes. And the fact that gear and brake cables are different sizes just further complicates something which should be simple...
And yes, serious question about the vyron deals, at some point this year I want to build a lightweight (11kg) titanium hardtail and would like to be able to swap easily between a dropper and a lighter carbon post, I'd be able to swap a vyron over to the new build.