Full Sus to Hardtail - Experiences

The question that's been asked on the forum since the 90s! 🙂 

I guess if you've ridden a hardtail as your main bike before, you'll be fine - know you need to stand on the pedals more, use your legs and suspension a lot more and pick your lines better on the hardtail. If you haven't, its the stuff you'll be learning. Slow it down a bit, be ready to be shaken up a bit more than on the full sus and enjoy "feeling the trails" 🙂

I am lucky to have both a Transmitter (27.5) and an Evol (29).  There's not much I can ride on the Evol that I can't on the Transmitter, so long as I ride each bike to its strengths both are fun in their own ways.
However, if I had to have just one it would be the Transmitter.

Amongst a good few FS bikes over the years I've never not had a hardtail. 

Most of my riding is Derbyshire Dales with a few forays into the Peak. All fine on a HT and for most of it my current main HT (Ragley Big Al) is almost as fast on the descents as a FS

I would suggest trying to borrow a hardtail for a day or two, everything you ride is perfectly doable on a hardtail but it will be a very different experience. I have always owned a hardtail alongside my full sus so I know where there might be a benefit or downside. The main thing I would say is that a hardtail will sap your energy a lot more but that is mostly on flatter off road sections, you will find that you can't sit and pedal in the same way and you often have to stand up more or almost hover over the saddle which is what tires you out.

yeah i did this after getting an emtb as I wanted my other bike to be less maintenance. It's a big al as well.  I think a decent tyre makes the hardtail a lot better (maxxis 3c maxxterra works for me). It's even been fine at Dyfi and BPW etc. Antur was a bit much when I went, though I've heard its less rocky now. It's also great for winter night rides where i just chuck it in the garage and don't worry about cleaning it. I just run cheap drivetrain, and don't look after it at all.

I've got an xc hardtail as well, tho I'm pretty sure i could just run the lighter wheels/tyres on the big al and get most of the benefits.

I'm also in the "lucky enough to have both" camp.

I bought a Ragley Marley frame in the Chain Reaction closing down sale. I built it up with parts off my old (knackered) Jeffsy frame with a 140mm fork. I also have a Stumpjumper Evo.

Since having the hardtail, the full sus hardly gets ridden. The full sus is better for uplift days and gnarly stuff in the alps, but for most self propelled stuff the hardtail is more fun.

I honestly think that if I'd had the hardtail first, I may not have got the full sus.

I’ve never gone back to a hardtail, I started on one (well I started before anyone had any suspension) and added an FS back in 2013. It’s only on longer/consecutive days where I really appreciate the FS. For anything up to a few hours the hardtail is amazing, it’s just that I fatigue more dealing with the roughness, so beyond half a day (like at an uplift venue) the FS justifies itself.

For bridleways and the odd trail centre bit I’d definitely just use my hardtail but not everyone likes standing up so much!

I always used to think all I ever wanted/needed to ride, I could do on a HT.

I love HTs (I have 2!) and they get ridden much more regularly than the FS (which is 160/160 travel), but that's more due to the fact that riding from the front door (majority of my riding) doesn't need a big FS bike.

But, anything steep/tech, I'll take the FS, and even on bigger rides out (eg The Peak / The Lakes), I'll usually choose the FS; it's not much slower overall and just handles rocks/chunk with more aplomb than the HT.

If the riding I did was 100% at the more tame/less steep/tech end, I might still choose a HT as my only bike if I could only have 1 MTB, but TBH, I think I'd now choose a trail FS and two sets of wheels as an only bike.

Just a specific observation to the OP ... The Transmitter frame is designed for 27.5+ isn't it? So, your Evol wheels may not swap ideally into a Transmitter frame unless they can run 2.8/3.0 tyres?

Why don't you rent a transmitter from Alpkit, if you buy it I'm sure the rental cost is deducted from the price as well.

I have a Cortex and purchased a Ragley Big Al from CRC when they were closing. I upgraded the Big Al with longer travel forks and it's really good fun with less maintenance. Looking at Strava the Cortex is quicker but I don't really notice it as the Ragley is more technical and like others have said, you need to pick your line and think about the surface a bit more. 

I went from a series of FS bikes (05 Demo, 07 SX Trail, 12 Mega) to a hardtail (24 Trek Roscoe 9) and have no regrets.

Initially the 29" wheels felt a bit odd and I had to get a shorter stem to sharpen the steering, but once I got used to those I was very happy and very rarely miss having a rear shock.

I did have to to adapt how I ride certain terrain and am a bit more conscious of the lines I take, but that's something I actually enjoy. I'll still ride everything I did before, just differently.

I cant see myself getting another FS until it's time to get an eBike.

I have both (Enduro bike and XC Hardtail). Love both - they're basically polar opposite ends of the MTB spectrum so perhaps not really a fair comparison: 

Whilst most downhills are rattlier and rougher on the HT (and a bit more ponderous), it can be managed quite a bit with using your body more. As noted above I do use the bikes for different types of rides though so I don't ride techy steep stuff very often on the HT. 

I find the biggest difference on seated uphills - especially more natural hill tracks where it's tussocky and rough. The HT is faster to climb still, but I really notice my arse end being bucked about a bit and it's not the most pleasant experience compared to the bouncy bike. On gravel roads and smoother uphill singletrack the HT is like a rocketship though. 

thoughts from someone old and with zero skills... I mainly ride an orbea occam and a transmitter, both carbon. Also a crossbike a bit. As no one else has spelled it out - the fs is just more comfortable to ride and more bouncy fun also, and just feels more capable and fun on features natural and trail. If I had to ride just one without question it's the orbea, for sure overbiked on most bridleways but can handle easily anything I'm likely to want to ride. That said I did a 30km round in the north york moors yesterday on the transmitter and it is fun to ride. I've got knobbly 2.8 tyres on it but it still feels light and wants to squirt forwards when you peddle and feels a more sensible choice for easier rides. Ah - as above basically. 

To sum up: obviously you need both. 

I went full sus to hardtail a few years ago as my local is Delamere and the not-local stuff I was riding at the time was still plenty within my capabilities on a hardtail. It was definitely the correct decision back then as I've only the one MTB. Sounds like your use case is similar. 

As it happens the MTB is back to full suspension, but that's only because I've got a gravel bike and that's taken over the real Gnarlite riding, so when I do go MTB a full susser makes more sense. 

Bearing in mind what was said above about the transmitter being a 27.5+ bike, you might need new forks too, which I guess would affect the man-maths. 

I've spent probably the last 5 years ring steel hardtails (Cotic BFe/Solaris/BFeMAX) as my "from the door" mountain bike and I do love them, but picking up a short travel full-sus recently it has been a bit of a revelation in terms of covering ground on bumpy bridleways. I think it's partly because everything has been baked so hard over the last few months you just pedal through it and hold momentum more than you would on the hardtail. 

Having said that if I could only have one, I'd likely keep the hardtail...

I'd say see if you can fit a decent size tyre into your current fork on your current rims, if you can then I'd probably go for it and keep the full-sus frame to one side while you give it a few months of riding over winter. Although they also have some pretty cheap forks on the Alpkit outlet eBay store usually, and Merlin have some crazy deals too at the moment but you do then risk ending up with almost two bikes.

Thanks all for the replies some really good points raised and a lot of good for thought. 

Yes, in an ideal world I would keep the full sus and get a hardtail but I just can’t justify that at the moment. 

I will def check the man maths about reusing the wheels and forks. My wheels are hunt trail wide v2 27.5 with a 2.8 Magic Mary on the front and a 2.6 Big Betty on the back. 

I’ll ask about testing a transmitter as not far from the Alpkit shop in Ilkley. I’d assume as I would be buying frame only it would not be an option but no harm in asking. 

The main thing I would say is that a hardtail will sap your energy a lot more but that is mostly on flatter off road sections, you will find that you can't sit and pedal in the same way and you often have to stand up more or almost hover over the saddle which is what tires you out.

This.

I had a hardtail for towing the kids trailer but didn't really use it much once I'd got decent XC fullsuss. Uphill it was fine, and I guess it's ok downhill if you like that sort of thing, but it was a nightmare on rocky pedally flats as you couldn't tap out the miles efficiently.

A good hardtail is a thing of joy whether you choose to run it solo, or alongside an FS.

If you've not ridden HT for a while, you'll probably sit too much and it will feel rough, but stick with it and it will make you a better rider because there are few places to hide. 

I've got a full suss and hardtail. the hartail soon to be for sale as it just doesnt get ridden.

My thoughts - which seem to be shared with at least a few people above although we are I think still in the minority - is that a shorter travel and maybe steeper angled full suss can provide the engaging/interesting ride on mellower terrain that your 160 enduro bike does not, without necessarily having to resort to a rigid rear end.

Of coure we've also got people taking HTs to Dyfi so overall the answer is "it depends"

I recently chopped in an aging stumpjumper for a used mmmbop frame and moved most of the parts over, it’s mulleted and has the best fork I own fitted. It’s now my “Best” MTB. 

The change was roughly cost neutral (stumpy frame and a couple of bits basically covered the price of a used frame and some other stuff). I reckon the same man maths would apply to a ~£200 Transmitter (and the inevitable other odds and ends you’re bound to need).

IMO sorted Geometry on a HT goes a long way in addressing the shortcomings of a “meh” FS bike. 

I also have a rigid hack MTB and gravel bike(s) and Road bike(s) so I’m a bit spoiled in terms of other things to ride while it’s grim and wet. That all means I can keep the mmmbop setup more for summer fun and trail riding and not worry so much about making it such an all-rounder and/or grinding it to death in the mud… 

I would probably swither more over the parts/build and frame choice if I only had one bike and it had to cover more bases though. 

The thing is you can always decide to go back to a bouncer in future if you want, and you can also try more HT frames for relatively little outlay if you want to play with angles and reach, etc later on. 

not far from the Alpkit shop in Ilkley

Me too. They have demo bikes and for sale too usually, not that I've poked my head in for a few weeks. 

Posted by: ayjaydoubleyou

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My thoughts - which seem to be shared with at least a few people above although we are I think still in the minority - is that a shorter travel and maybe steeper angled full suss can provide the engaging/interesting ride on mellower terrain that your 160 enduro bike does not, without necessarily having to resort to a rigid rear end.

Personally I'd definitely take a sorted HT over a short travel steep(er) FS'er

Personally I'd definitely take a sorted HT over a short travel steep(er) FS'er

I always thought the same but I sold the BigAl and replaced it with a Revel Rascal with 130mm but also upgraded everything else to keep the weight the same.

The Rascal is a revelation. I honestly don't miss the Ragley, brilliant as it was. 

Posted by: hardtailonly

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But, anything steep/tech, I'll take the FS

With your forum name?

For those pedalling times that can be rough but aren't 'attack / stood on the pedals' rough, a suspension seat post works wonders. Suspension and dropper can be got together with PNW and TranzX. It smooths out bridleways and tree roots quite well.

I have a Transmitter that I run on 2.8" tyres, the extra volume is great for traction and taking out some of the rear-end chatter you get on moderate chunder with some hardtails. It's kind of a nice halfway house between full sus and hardtail and lots of fun on techy stuff. I'd maybe demo one at an Alpkit store and see what you think. I could happily run one as an only mountain bike, but I also own a Cotic FlareMAX which has a bit more, erm, 'thing', if that makes sense.

But the Transmitter would happily do everything the OP mentions, it's a bit less 'hardtaily' than many, if that makes sense and a nice bike. It also has that quite cool 'punches above its weight' thing going on, if you're bothered about that. No s****y brand pretensions, but rides really well in a slightly pugnacious sort of way.

Thanks again for the feedback and comments. I have made the decision to go for it. Will swap all the components over from the Evol but will keep the frame in case it turns out to be a disaster. 

So if anyone in the Skipton area happens to spot a Yellow Sonder Transmitter it’s likely to be me. 

I think the transmitter is great. I’d buy one again quite happily

I spent a summer on the hardtail as my full suspension bike was out of action. Went going from a nice well-maintained full suspension bike to a £200 on eBay hardtail with a clapped out fork. It's a on one big dog.

I was shocked at how not different it was. I did 3 weeks in Scotland. Ae forest, Golfie, inners, loads of places. The only time I was really like wow Id like suspension now was on the last bit of the golfie climb to NY/ lone wolf- I pushed that.

Go for it!

After reading the gearbox thread on here and the associated drag that apparently comes with them, I've shelved plans for a Nordest.

So, I've been eying Radical Ti Chilli Dogs up for a while - reckon one of these will be my next build for a 'something special' HT - will compliment the Ti Stanton FS and the Ragley can be the winter season victim of abuse.

^^^ Wow looks amazing. Loads of seat post length too assuming it's not a small. 

Ti is what would bring me back to a HT!!

Posted by: nickfrog

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Loads of seat post length too assuming it's not a small. 

They keep the straight transition from top tube to seat stays across all sizes

Their Grim Ripper looks amazing too. Probably my next frame, although in steel as I'm not rich enough for Ti 😀 

Posted by: graemegreen1979

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I’ll ask about testing a transmitter as not far from the Alpkit shop in Ilkley. I’d assume as I would be buying frame only it would not be an option but no harm in asking. 

They have a decent size demo fleet in Ilkley and you don't have to be buying a bike to demo one. IMO Ilkley Moor would be the perfect place to find out how you'd get on with a HT.

I ride exactly the same stuff you do with most of my riding being from the door up to Malham, Grassington, Settle and the BW's in-between. Over the years I've chopped and changed bikes and tried most of the options but usually had some sort of trail full suss as my main bike. During Covid my mate got a Gravel Bike and started riding a lot of the old gentle routes we used to ride as kids. I joined him and that's what led to my current XC focus. Couldn't get on with drop bars so swapped that for a Cube 120mm carbon HT (with a full rigid On One Whippet in the mix which didn't last long) which was just the job for most of the riding you seem to do. I also had a 150/135mm full suss which I used for Trail Centres and local stuff if I felt like a bit more comfort as well as a 150mm 27.5mm HT that I had built using various PSA's.

Having got used to the weight of my carbon XC bike I started to find my FS, set up tough so not light, really hard work on grassy climbs and longer routes I had started to ride so decided I needed a carbon XC FS. XC HT got sold but then the money for the new bike got delayed so I ended up using my steel HT for more general rides. It was a Pace RC627 with 2.6 tyres but I soon swapped the rear and Dampf for a Rock Razer as it rolled so much better. It was a superb all rounder, coping easily with Gisburn, BPW, as well as the canals and BW's I like to ride. Don't know if the steel frame helped but the tyres certainly did and I didn't feel it gave much away to a full suss tbh. Strava said it wasn't much slower than either my XC HT or trail FS in their natural environment too.

Only problem is that eventually I could afford the carbon XC FS and for the majority of riding you and I do that bike absolutely destroys all the others I'd had!! An opportunity came along to sell  the Pace and Orange FS together so I intend to replace both with a bigger bike for the Trail Centres while the XC FS takes most of the strain.

TL;DR, although not the perfect option for the riding you do a Hardtail will still be spot on and with the right tyres won't give up much to the Evol.

I've gone back and forth between a hardtail and full sus over the years, but my heart is always with a HT - if you like the direct feeling of acceleration then it's hard to match with a suspended rear end.  In answer to the OP, a lot depends on how and where you ride, remembering to make a realistic assessment of what riding you actually do most of (as opposed to dream of doing).  

My riding is mainly from the door and I do a fair amount of linking together offroad with gravel and paved sections.  The sweet spot for me is a light XC+ hardtail with lockout forks (Yeti ARC, Fox 34 SC, flat bar, modest dropper).  I'm sure a light full sus would work well, trading some capabilities either way.  

I always go back to hardtail. FS is a lot of fun and great for a confidence boost, but then I tend to go back and ride all the same stuff on a HT anyway. Love the cleaner looks and don't have to worry about service and maintenance of a rear shock and pivots.

Would still quite like to try something like the Chisel FS or Norco Revolver though, just for a little bit of give in the rear end rather than a full on plush ride.